EPTEVE Corporation - Page 1770
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule19188 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34499 Posts
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
On February 19 2014 01:51 tofucake wrote: Better ships give a wider engagement profile give better isk efficiency. I remember when we used to go out with 4 Tengus (each easily 2b) and my Huginn (another 500m) and dunk 40 people at a time with no losses. Your corp leadership is bad. That's what i try to tell them... | ||
Mandini
United States1717 Posts
On February 19 2014 01:51 tofucake wrote: Better ships give a wider engagement profile give better isk efficiency. I remember when we used to go out with 4 Tengus (each easily 2b) and my Huginn (another 500m) and dunk 40 people at a time with no losses. Your corp leadership is bad. And then delve happened | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
Many things have happened in delve...specifics? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34499 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule19188 Posts
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Shootemup.
United States1044 Posts
On February 19 2014 05:59 Audemed wrote: Many things have happened in delve...specifics? Lots of Tengus died, sometimes in rather hilarious ways (for everyone other than the Tengu pilot). We eventually switched away from Tengus to Drake and Tornado gangs. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On February 19 2014 01:48 Audemed wrote: Getting frustrated with my corp atm, most people refuse to fly anything bigger than a T1 cruiser and leadership discourages ANY T2 larger than a frig for ANYTHING. I have a hangar full of hacs, commands, and a redeemer that I never use unless I just DGAF and bring them out anyway, but even then they get upset because "isk efficiency" is the most important thing. Maybe we'd die less if we had ships that actually did things, instead of derping around in AF's and T1 cruisers. sry mate but the general idea is true - effectiveness generally scales logarithmically with cost. A 900m isk 100mn ab tengu is not going to fare well against 15-20 assault frigates, for example t1 cruisers can be strong in the correct metas (arty rup / RLML caracal), this one is not especially favorable to them though http://hydra.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19407191 ignore the mach and oracle - these two were brought in after the rapier died so were pretty much involved on 4 kills in cleanup phase, most of this fight was done with 3 t1 cruisers and a cheap faction one most important thing is to get t3 bonuses, then you can declare holy war on gallente and send them to dunkzone: http://datelinenbc.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=22007065 (lot of other random shit on station shot at things, but this was deimos / rupture / sentries vs 2 cynabal / ishtar / vexor / griffin) Better ships give a wider engagement profile give better isk efficiency. people who actually play disagree | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Thus ideally you want to fly underrated ships (RLML caracal was the perfect example of this. It was considered 'good' but in fact was the strongest t1 cruiser in the game - it possessed ideal projection capabilities and also could brawl its way out of bad situations - something that not even the navy omen could claim!) its true that t2 can be useful, but its best you run them as singles else they quickly become too scary to engage. So they have to have a unique strength that justifies running them in a gang. with PODLA provigangs we would run a single ishtar + caracals as the ishtar provides the dps of 3~ caracals at good range, another single that I think are worth running are curse (provides enormous anti-frigate capabilities, can also shut down a high-projection turret boat). Also celestis (its not t2 but people are justifiably scared of EWAR). I feel like keres / hyena are perfectly good substitutes for lach / huginn now and they are less scary to boot. 'Threat' might be a somewhat unclear term, the only way you can understand is actually flying in practice and seeing what is willing to fight you. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
On February 19 2014 08:44 419 wrote: More serious analysis. At the small gang level, all pvp is completely consensual. A gang that does not want to fight, you cannot force to fight. Therefore the name of the game is tricking them into fighting you. The normal Eve player has preconceived nature about the relative strength of ships that are often inaccurate. Thus ideally you want to fly underrated ships (RLML caracal was the perfect example of this. It was considered 'good' but in fact was the strongest t1 cruiser in the game - it possessed ideal projection capabilities and also could brawl its way out of bad situations - something that not even the navy omen could claim!) its true that t2 can be useful, but its best you run them as singles else they quickly become too scary to engage. So they have to have a unique strength that justifies running them in a gang. with PODLA provigangs we would run a single ishtar + caracals as the ishtar provides the dps of 3~ caracals at good range, another single that I think are worth running are curse (provides enormous anti-frigate capabilities, can also shut down a high-projection turret boat). Also celestis (its not t2 but people are justifiably scared of EWAR). I feel like keres / hyena are perfectly good substitutes for lach / huginn now and they are less scary to boot. 'Threat' might be a somewhat unclear term, the only way you can understand is actually flying in practice and seeing what is willing to fight you. I'm not saying we need to fly full T2 all the time, but flying T2 at all is discouraged. One of the best fights we got recently was my sleipnir being "caught" by an inty gang. Resulted in 20 some kills and a a hawk + cane lost. Sure, if you're flying a full kit of hacs and recons, shit will run. Dangle some shinies out there, and people WANT to come get the kills. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
On February 19 2014 10:03 Audemed wrote: I'm not saying we need to fly full T2 all the time, but flying T2 at all is discouraged. One of the best fights we got recently was my sleipnir being "caught" by an inty gang. Resulted in 20 some kills and a a hawk + cane lost. Sure, if you're flying a full kit of hacs and recons, shit will run. Dangle some shinies out there, and people WANT to come get the kills. We used to love seeing those kinds of gangs (one or two shiny things) because we'd keep point on the shiny, kill everything else, and then kill the shiny last, since people would throw stuff away trying to save the shiny stuff. Worst-case scenario is we'd sack a rifter to keep the shiny in place long enough to kill it. I lost many rifters to ensure some pretty shiny kills..... | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
On February 19 2014 08:44 419 wrote: More serious analysis. At the small gang level, all pvp is completely consensual. A gang that does not want to fight, you cannot force to fight. Therefore the name of the game is tricking them into fighting you. The normal Eve player has preconceived nature about the relative strength of ships that are often inaccurate. Thus ideally you want to fly underrated ships (RLML caracal was the perfect example of this. It was considered 'good' but in fact was the strongest t1 cruiser in the game - it possessed ideal projection capabilities and also could brawl its way out of bad situations - something that not even the navy omen could claim!) its true that t2 can be useful, but its best you run them as singles else they quickly become too scary to engage. So they have to have a unique strength that justifies running them in a gang. with PODLA provigangs we would run a single ishtar + caracals as the ishtar provides the dps of 3~ caracals at good range, another single that I think are worth running are curse (provides enormous anti-frigate capabilities, can also shut down a high-projection turret boat). Also celestis (its not t2 but people are justifiably scared of EWAR). I feel like keres / hyena are perfectly good substitutes for lach / huginn now and they are less scary to boot. 'Threat' might be a somewhat unclear term, the only way you can understand is actually flying in practice and seeing what is willing to fight you. Celestis! Hohoho, I can't believe our inaugural Team Liquid roam after the T1 cruiser buff was so long ago! It's a shame I can't find a proper battle report that would show our prowess. Did I or anyone do a write up on that? (It took place December 8th, 2012) | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
On February 19 2014 10:45 Impervious wrote: We used to love seeing those kinds of gangs (one or two shiny things) because we'd keep point on the shiny, kill everything else, and then kill the shiny last, since people would throw stuff away trying to save the shiny stuff. Worst-case scenario is we'd sack a rifter to keep the shiny in place long enough to kill it. I lost many rifters to ensure some pretty shiny kills..... Doesn't matter how many shinies it is if you outnumber them that badly. | ||
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0m3ga
Serbia322 Posts
419:people who actually play disagree lololol This is going to be my hangar untill LML nerf / CCP Rise & Fozzie getting fired ![[image loading]](http://i.snag.gy/I9UaQ.jpg) | ||
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Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
I just don't like the heretic... Its great for getting frigs and all, but really struggles vs anything else. Which is a shame. Because while blapping the shit out of frig gangs is fun, the heretic still has to chose those fights carefully. You don't have that much EHP so you need to be careful vs other destroyers- which there are quite a bit of these days. IDK i just can't seem to come up with a solo fit these days that I am happy with. Caracal / Cerb were just great ships, and they did a nice job- with out completely eclipsing the other ships. Solo / super small gang vs the odds is hard enough already, this shit is just icing on the cake. | ||
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Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On February 19 2014 13:09 Audemed wrote: Doesn't matter how many shinies it is if you outnumber them that badly. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12830564 wherein we tackle 3 rr carriers for ~20 minutes or so, eventually end up fighting a 50 man CFC gang that comes to save the carriers. clearly this only works because we were blobbing the shit out of them if you randomly throw in shinies into a gang with no clear purpose, you end up bumping up your gang threat (which means you end up with larger gangs that are actually willing to fight you) for no real increase in effectiveness | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
On February 19 2014 16:09 419 wrote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12830564 wherein we tackle 3 rr carriers for ~20 minutes or so, eventually end up fighting a 50 man CFC gang that comes to save the carriers. clearly this only works because we were blobbing the shit out of them if you randomly throw in shinies into a gang with no clear purpose, you end up bumping up your gang threat (which means you end up with larger gangs that are actually willing to fight you) for no real increase in effectiveness I also thought it was funny that he thought I was talking about outnumbering them..... | ||
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