EPTEVE Corporation - Page 1091
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Ueberlisk
Finland455 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
On May 01 2012 23:21 Ueberlisk wrote: unrelated note. does anyone have extra dota2 beta invite laying around? i'm interested and might be able to provide some isk for it. 10b. | ||
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tmonet
United States172 Posts
9b | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
15b. | ||
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tmonet
United States172 Posts
45 and a haiku | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
Done. | ||
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Ueberlisk
Finland455 Posts
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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KwarK
United States43898 Posts
sigh isk is cheap will be flipping that for 15 easily | ||
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Mysticus
298 Posts
I wanted to have a proof of concept. That concept simply is that you need to snatch characters who are looking for quick sales and hold out on selling them until you have someone who is looking for exactly YOU. This is the character: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Lucia_Heart She is a perfect hulk pilot (assuming you don't care about supports and are mining in empire). She also has a significant amount of wasted SP towards her purpose (mining) in the form of freighter and orca skills (she can inject and sit in both in less than an hour). These I neglected to mention in the sale for points I will touch on later. Now, based on what these kind of pilots go for, she was worth about 4bil when I bought her for 2.8b. I saw an opportunity that KwarK also saw to quickly turn over some money. He saw the inherent problems with the character that I came to realize after I had already bought it: that it's value was mostly maximized. ---- In the week it took me to turn her over, I realized people generally buy characters for a purpose. Once the purpose is fulfilled by skills, every skillpoint after that is redundant and does not appreciably increase the value of the character. An example: Joe wants to buy a max scanning cov ops pilot. Let's say this character is worth around 5bil for ~12mil skillpoints (416isk/skillpoint, not bad!). Andy has a pilot that has all the specifications Joe wants, but he also has 10mil SP in invention from a point where he dabbled (for 22mil SP total). Andy has split skill points and he will not be compensated accordingly. He may (if he is incredibly lucky) find a buyer who is interested in both, but he still will not retain all the value of those skill points and will likely go for slightly above a specialized character with half as many skill points. He may get somewhere in the vicinity of 6.5b (295isk/skill point) for his character. Had he split the two skillsets into two characters on the same account, he could easily pull 5b a piece (454isk/sp). This is an important concept. Specialization and perfection garners the highest time value! **While 51 days of training time is free, capital is not** I missed out on a good number of opportunities when I had my money tied into this character that I was, at most, going to make 1.2bil on. The fact that I had money tied into her prevented me from making closer to 2b in half the time. This is always going to be the case so long as there are underpriced characters on the market and I am limited by funds, so this was more a hard lesson than a mistake on my part. **When turning characters, you should be looking at VALUE ADDED** When I purchased the character at 2.8, I realized within a week that additional training was not going to assist me in offloading the character for much more than I could get immediately after purchase. I made a second character on my 51 day account and began training that second character for specific sale. I did not train the character I purchased at all and put Lucia Heart character on the market. This idea doubled the time value of that account. **The Character Bazaar is a sellers market** Even if there are 20 other pilots with your exact skillset, there are many, many more buyers looking to pick up your character. Between value-added resellers, people adding to their fleet, people switching professions, and just people buying everything (KwarK), there are more people wanting to buy characters than characters available. Patience is your best friend. You will almost always get a better offer tomorrow than you will today. Set your bar high and use that high bar to leverage negotiations when it gets down to brass tax. Make sure the phrase "meet me half way" always works in your favor. TLDR, buy low, sell high. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Lucia_Heart Bought her for 2.8b, sold for 4.8b. With 900mil in PLEX cost, it's a 1.1b ISK profit for browsing the forums once or twice a day for a week. While this is a very simple ccase of snatching an undervalued character and selling it to someone who over valued it, I still learned a lot! I have another 4.5b investment that I am perfecting on another 51 day account aiming to sell for 7b and an older character I am perfecting before trying to get 6b. Without this relatively successful character I would have lost money on my 4.5b and gotten less than the 6b is worth. Learning! | ||
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Mysticus
298 Posts
For instance, say you purchase a general PVE character who happens to have decent navigation skills and BS5. By training for capital ships or some other specialty in high demand, you can easily make 4m/hour passive income by simply owning that character and adding high-value SP with decent attribute spreads. 4m/h translates to about 4.5billion over the course of a 51 day account. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
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KwarK
United States43898 Posts
Mysticus, on the note of what skills to train in a 51, make sure to factor in skillbook costs. I think advanced spaceship command is a cheap skill, so are the jump skills. Train these and then market it as carrier ready, training carrier 3 or whatever on it won't add 500m in value. You can still market it as a carrier toon if you have jump skills and it's not far off, carrier should be the final thing you put on a carrier toon. | ||
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KwarK
United States43898 Posts
On May 02 2012 03:31 Firebolt145 wrote: Didn't read ^, but waiting for Kwark to come in and say WTF LOL YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ~ Mysticus knows his shit. The points quoted below are especially important + Show Spoiler + **While 51 days of training time is free, capital is not** I missed out on a good number of opportunities when I had my money tied into this character that I was, at most, going to make 1.2bil on. The fact that I had money tied into her prevented me from making closer to 2b in half the time. This is always going to be the case so long as there are underpriced characters on the market and I am limited by funds, so this was more a hard lesson than a mistake on my part. **The Character Bazaar is a sellers market** Even if there are 20 other pilots with your exact skillset, there are many, many more buyers looking to pick up your character. Between value-added resellers, people adding to their fleet, people switching professions, and just people buying everything (KwarK), there are more people wanting to buy characters than characters available. Patience is your best friend. You will almost always get a better offer tomorrow than you will today. Set your bar high and use that high bar to leverage negotiations when it gets down to brass tax. Make sure the phrase "meet me half way" always works in your favor. Read those over and over. However the value added point is incorrect, you should always train skills on the toon you want to sell. If you want to train up random skills on a 51 then make a 51 for that, skillpoints are always worth isk, even if they're not worth very much (like a completed tengu). If you think the toon was undervalued and your intention is to flip then try to flip from day 1 but always, always train it. However the concept of a completed account which has very limited potential for value increase is spot on. | ||
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
On May 02 2012 00:15 Body_Shield wrote: Note: Don't let Johnny drink Yeah sorry about that. Tend to get depressed when drinking. | ||
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Mysticus
298 Posts
On May 02 2012 03:33 KwarK wrote: Bought a second Hel pilot today. Hel is a good ship, right? Mysticus, on the note of what skills to train in a 51, make sure to factor in skillbook costs. I think advanced spaceship command is a cheap skill, so are the jump skills. Train these and then market it as carrier ready, training carrier 3 or whatever on it won't add 500m in value. You can still market it as a carrier toon if you have jump skills and it's not far off, carrier should be the final thing you put on a carrier toon. I am looking for my break-in point for big boy purchases but this is an excellent tip, thank you. In some ways this all seems much easier with higher returns and less risk than any other kind of trading. Unless you are stupid and buy something for way over market (don't do this), you almost can't lose money. Just takes up crazy amounts of capital. | ||
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KwarK
United States43898 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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KwarK
United States43898 Posts
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101797&find=unread isk is cheap | ||
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Big Monkey
United Kingdom473 Posts
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