EPTEVE Corporation - Page 1055
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tofucake
Hyrule18968 Posts
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
The night started when I showed up and nobody was doing much in game, however, Jed (wood league), Tango(onec a mity master), and R3eaper(silver?/gold?) were discussing doing some starcrafting so I (once a mity master) joined in and we defended the mity Hatchury sov space of SC2 4v4s as great honour warriors. We went 3-0 in our placement matches and are well on our way, with the help of Jed's 1-base mass Phoenix, to being the best 4v4 team on NA. Unfortunately Jed was called away by his better half before we could finish our placements, so we will have to finish this on another day. Whilst we were doing 4v4s Sme Ematu/Azro/Tob pops on to comms and says he has a skirmish linked active Tengu harassing him in one of his sites and wants help, but I don't believe anything ever came of that as the Starcraft players ceded the channel to him and continued doing the lord's work. Fast forward about 20 minutes after SC2 playing finished Tob dips in to channel again, the Tengu is back, double linked, and in his site. Me and zeTango start moving the 6j or so to get in to position, at this time R3eaper is also out causing trouble in nearby null in a Sabre so he starts heading that way from a much farther distance. So the matchup was this and I will attempt to provide a play by play to make it easier for some of you (bbq) to understand why we took the fight: We had a Tengu piloted by Tob in the 3rd pocket of the site with a fed web/ A-type AB as our initiate with me (web drake) and Tango (dual web drake) holding the next system over waiting to spring the trap, all we needed to do was have Tob score the intial tackle/web, and then have him hold his web long enough for secondary and tertiary webs to get there to secure the kill. Mind you this Tengu was skirmish linked, so he was a good 150/200m/s faster than Tob when heated and both applying their webs to each other, but we just needed Tob to hold him long enough. So the enemy Tengu takes the accel gate and lands on Tob and the call is made to jump, I'm about 15 seconds away from the gate when this happened and Tango was already there, so it comes down to Tango landing webs. We get there, take the 2 acceleration gates and when we land we're about 35-40km off the enemy Tengu going 700m/s away from us and we start burning....and burning...and burning. Tob has held his web for about 90 seconds at this point and finally loses it as Tango gets <20km but its not enough. Tango heats like crazy trying to run him down before he can accelerate but, you guessed it, on the last cycle of MWD heat to close the gap BOTH of his webs burn out. That is Hatchery RNG if I ever saw it. At this point we're also having bbq on our comms saying things like "How bad are you?" "Are you seriously...?" Which was really really fucking annoying. He apparently has some shit against Tob from a past experience...whatever. So anyway its looking like we might lose him and I'm still like 45km away at this point calling velocities to these guys who are trying to cut the angle between where he is and where he's aligning and they manage to hold point long enough that enemy Tengu turns, realizing theres no webs (facepalm) and goes for the finish on Tob's Tengu. Tob attempts to gtfo but can't shake the linked Fed web/RF point and pops with loot in the hold =[ http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12980734 At this point Tango is brawling like a boss and I finally catch up due to him turning and get secondary point and start throwing the damages as he starts to bleed in to armor, his cap is gettng low. Tango calls that he needs to get out and manages to escape before he can be brought down. Meanwhile, R3eaper in the Sabre had come 8 jumps and was now on field albeit 250km away from the fight. We were in a 6/10 so there was no warping to us so he just burned as all this was happening and right as Tango has to evac the field gets in to rang and lands his point/web as soon as I cap out from running my MWD for the last 5 minutes and now needed my invulns. At this point the Tengu is bleeding in to structure and it's obvious that he's dried up. I continue heating my launchers but I have to fucking reload as he hits 30% structure as he switches targets to the Sabre in hopes to clear him off. I get reloaded, fire off one more volley which puts him low enough for R3aper to pick up the kill....jesus fuck. http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12980701 Twas a good fight against a double linked Tengu in a really unfavorable place (plex, no warping around). Tob did what he needed to do to gain initial tackle and hold him at a manageable speed the 90 seconds or so it took for help to get there and died for it. This apparently made BBQ mad as fuck for some reason, which I didn't really understand. Something about this is what we do to people all the time and make them look bad and we played right in to his hand blah blah blah...whatever. That was a pretty gud fite. Props to reaper for showing up and burning 300km to lock it down. Despite shit loot and the loss of Tob's Tengu, we went home in high spirits after obtaining the good fites. edit: fixed link | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34483 Posts
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Twas a good fight against a double linked Tengu in a really unfavorable place (plex, no warping around). Tob did what he needed to do to gain initial tackle and hold him at a manageable speed the 90 seconds or so it took for help to get there and died for it. This apparently made BBQ mad as fuck for some reason, which I didn't really understand I think it was a natural effect of asking the question "how the fuck does one 100mn tengu die to another?" luckily i think I solved the question I'll copy paste the comment I left: "I am brawling the tengu at zero" -Azro How does a 100mn tengu die to another (even while webbed)? The venerable spaceships expert Michael Harari has attested that this is a sort of thing that does not happen, at least in the reality where people turn on their modules and such. I suspect that during the brawling process and ensuing collision, your speed dropped below ~100 m/s long enough that he was able to break your peak recharge with the 126 overheated dps (post-resistances). 100mn AB provides an enormous amount of mitigation -- however, you throw it all away when you go ramming speed on the other dude. Luckily, as with all good scientific hypotheses, this one is quite disprovable. All you have to do is open up your game logs and check how much volley you were taking at the start of the fight (when you were moving ~800 m/s) and check the part that happens after "approaching xsdfehxjd" or whatever that tengu was called. If I'm right you should notice that the second number will be much, much, larger than the first. Hope this helped! PS: yes, there are other options besides "clicking approach" or "losing tackle", this may or may not fall under the category of "piloting your ship" there's also the thing where fighting a dual linked guy in a plex where he gets to isolate targets at will is pretty much the perfect tactical situation for him, and its his fight to lose. he misplayed heavily, and having only CN scourge in a tengu makes me think he wasn't the brightest 100mn tengu pilot. I suppose things could have easily gone worse -- luckily you were not fighting, say, battalwarlord Brutis. | ||
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
You weren't even on the field at all for the fight...claiming you know what was happening and should have happened is pretty stupid. Just let it go. Putting Azro's Tengu in a commited position where it was possible it would die was part of what needed to happen to make the kill possible. Everything relied on that. All I see here is grumble grumble you shouldn't have fought grumble grumble. You don't know what was going on, you weren't there, jesus fuck. | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On April 07 2012 21:08 NoSlack wrote: I have some bookmarks in some systems, but not near as much as I should. Hell I don't even know why I have the bookmarks that I do, I've never lived in these systems before but I have some bombing and dictor bookmarks which is really weird. I'll jump in an interceptor one day and just go make shittons of bookmarks here in the next couple of days. Anyway, figured I'd put down some drunken words before hitting the sack. See ya'll tomorrow! Corp bookmarks | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On April 08 2012 02:15 Invol2ver wrote: BBQ you are the most impossible backseat FC ever. You weren't even on the field at all for the fight...claiming you know what was happening and should have happened is pretty stupid. Just let it go. Putting Azro's Tengu in a commited position where it was possible it would die was part of what needed to happen to make the kill possible. Everything relied on that. All I see here is grumble grumble you shouldn't have fought grumble grumble. You don't know what was going on, you weren't there, jesus fuck. there are certain suboptimal things that happen when you use the approach command that do not happen if you are at least trying to establish some semblance of an orbit (this isn't the first time I do the backseat FCing with Azro's tengu while not on field / not even logged in -- 'shoot mjolnir at rapier is bad mmk' -- incidentally, the first time I was right) just check the gamelogs | ||
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
I don't understand what previous problems you have with Azro but you're just being an idiot here tbh. For some reason it's eating you up that we got a kill because we executed a plan even though it didn't go optimally. You're pointing out everything the other guy did wrong, like not shooting Mjolnir, because for some reason it bothers you that we got a kill because we exploited the position this guy put himself in. It's not like we're running around slapping each other on the back calling ourselves the best pvpers in eve. Kwark's really the only one that does any amount of self praising. In fact, we were all pretty bummed we ended up trading our Tengu for his, but that didn't stop you from just being a dick about it anyway. Like I could have come on comms and expressed my disgust that you killed a whole gang that got baited by their caught Tornado in open space but what's the point? I just don't understand. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule18968 Posts
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Ame
United States246 Posts
On April 07 2012 20:17 KwarK wrote: I didn't ban him from tl or anything. It's just the service offered by the Hatchery is somewhat reliant upon people wanting to not be shit and learning. He was wasting our time and his time. Ah, I forget that I haven't really invested time in this game. If I were to draw parallels to other games I've played... fair enough, carry on.  | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
which is shit luck. I'm kind of disappointed by your analysis of the fight -- its not a simple matter of "getting unlucky". What he did here was essentially what we do against other people in null -- abusing superior range control and piloting skill advantage to engage outnumbered (admittedly he made some misplays, but starting the fight in the plex is pretty much his optimal battlefield). He knew Azro had backup incoming, and IIRC he was able to establish a distance buffer of 100 km~ before the backup hits the field. He was going, by your account, 900 m/s after being webbed. Lets consider the situation: 1) Without the additional webs, hostile Tengu will not die 2) Eventually (after some period of time), Azro's tank will break (actually, I'm not sure whether scourge vs a 800 m/s tengu will ever break a Tengu's passive recharge) 3) As you say yourself, Azro has no ability to disengage once committed The combination of factors means that the Drakes are under enormous time pressure, which pretty much necessitates overheating the MWD to close distance -- I have no idea why the conversation in comms was about Tango's heat management (like, he made the optimal decision in a very bad situation). TL;DR Because of his ability to control distance, he could equalize the odds against him by putting himself at a relative cap + heat advantage. Luck, in this case, is the residue of design. Its not just a matter of him having links -- he picked a battlefield which amplifies the benefit of having skirmish. (Again, Hatchery as brutalized many a gang that has underestimated the power of range control, so its not like what I'm saying is revolutionary. Also, weren't you there, many months ago, when Brutis pulled Aeth off a plex gate and them casually killed him 100 km away while the backup couldn't get to him?) What can I say? Absent him burning his EM hardener he could have easily killed everything on field. Its true, you can hardly count on people playing optimally, but he didn't need to play especially optimally, even, with the positioning advantage you gave him. And sure, you got a fight, but... ** A thought experiment: you have, at your disposal, as the CFC grand fleet admiral commander of Torrinos security: 5 EC- specials, several TEST dramiels, a megathron, and Undertovv's manticore There are three innocuous dudes sitting at 100 km in 2 drakes and an oracle. They appear to be moving faster than normal. The oracle pilot gives off a drug addict vibe. One of the drake pilots is relaying intel about module burn status of his fleet in local. Would you take that fight as offered? That is, order everyone to burn toward the hostiles with ramming speed, with the hope that the drake pilot is drunk / 'BBQ FTW' and will charge your dramiels, like in a medieval joust? Or do you try to initiate the fight, say, by getting a better warpin? Sometimes positioning is 90% of the battle. ** Like I could have come on comms and expressed my disgust that you killed a whole gang that got baited by their caught Tornado in open space but what's the point? I just don't understand. you're completely welcome to disparage the fun aspect fight , I don't understand what your point is here. Normal people can disagree on that, yes? I prefer fights in which piloting is actually required, instead of f1 approach overheat everything / pray your opponent doesn't fuck up. I'm not claiming dodging armorcanes is difficult (well, it was made more interesting by being in 10% cap~) but, hey, it is what it is. fwiw, I agree I should stop calling people fucking retarded on comms and reserve that critique for after ops but I stand by pretty much everything I said. Just ignore bbq. He's worthless in all regards, and it's a waste of your life to talk near/at/to him. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wld5j.png) I don't return the sentiment, I believe you contribute a lot of interesting content to my eve experience. <3 ** I just welped Steve to a tiny -A- camp (18 guys) that I knew he could tank and deliberately threw him into. I sat there for about 90 seconds firing and slowly breaking and not understanding why. They didn't have the firepower to break me in my head and yet they were and it was making no sense. Now, rather than check everything in my head was true (XL booster, confirm, booster running, confirm, blue pill in, confirm, siege links up, confirm) I just kept on managing cap. Turned out siege links weren't in fleet. :'( the line of Steve is cursed they're like the Kennedys of eve online | ||
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
He knew Azro had backup incoming, and IIRC he was able to establish a distance buffer of 100 km~ before the backup hits the field. He was going, by your account, 900 m/s after being webbed. Lets consider the situation: You don't remember correctly. Not even close. The drakes were in damage range when we landed. This goes in line with every fact you state about the whole situation, you've been wrong this entire time. 2) Eventually (after some period of time), Azro's tank will break (actually, I'm not sure whether scourge vs a 800 m/s tengu will ever break a Tengu's passive recharge) ...really? Passive Tengu regen is like 30/sec at BEST. Comon man. I prefer fights in which piloting is actually required, instead of f1 approach overheat everything / pray your opponent doesn't fuck up. I'm not claiming dodging armorcanes is difficult (well, it was made more interesting by being in 10% cap~) but, hey, it is what it is. But no one gives a fuck what you prefer. Your opinion is in no way desired or applicable. You weren't asked in to the fight nor were you a part of it, at all. You're just being a dick, which is why I'm even bothering in the first place. You act like him burning his EM hardener swung the fight...but I can guarantee that it burned after he was already at 0 shield and on life support cycles from his booster, so I highly doubt it. And you are taking my statement of "shit luck" so far out of context to make you look like less of a dick. I said BOTH the webs being the only mids to burn out on the drake was shit luck. Nothing else. But please, keep being critical and condescending toward a fight in which you weren't even on grid. .____. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On April 08 2012 03:52 419 wrote: Sometimes positioning is 90% of the battle. Only thing I can say about this debate is that even though you are right on this one, the problem here is a question of mentality. Some people will still take the fight even if their positionning is shit because they dont mind losing their ship and just want that fight, while others want perfect score over fights so they will be more picky. I doubt they didnt know it wasnt really a good thing to go into for them, dual linked tengu in a plex is a total bitch, but I guess they still wanted to fight. Bottom line is, this is two different approaches to the game, and you cant tell someone ''youre bad because you prefer that approach which is different to mine''. (The debate around ''you did this bad, he did this bad'', is okay though, and I wont comment on that one, but it needs to be taken into consideration in light of the first decision to go into a fight with odds against you) With that in mind let us all be friends and may many ships of the ennemies be brought to justice by the forces of the hatchuery | ||
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
...really? Passive Tengu regen is like 30/sec at BEST. Comon man. A tengu shooting cn scourge at a webbed 100mn tengu does like 50 dps at best. | ||
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Dbars
United States273 Posts
Mother of god | ||
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Shootemup.
United States1044 Posts
A lot of times the corp bookmarks are lacking, and he is in Spawning Pool, which doesn't have corp bookmarks. | ||
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
Wat. | ||
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NathanEO
Germany254 Posts
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12974905 | ||
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