Group Round Qualified Teams: As first: Roma, Panatinaikos, Barça, Liverpool, ManU, Bayern, Oporto, Juventus
As second: Chelsea, Inter, Sp. Lisbon, Atl. Madrid, Villarreal, Lyon, Arsenal, Real Madrid
Match Fixtures
Chelsea (ENG) - Juventus (ITA) 1-0 2-2 Villarreal (SPA) - Panathinaikos (GRE) 1-1 1-2 Sporting Portugal (POR) - Bayern Munich (GER) 0-5 1-7 Atlético de Madrid (SPA) Oporto (POR) 2-2 0-0 O. Lyon (FRA) Barcelona (SPA) 1-1 2-5 Real Madrid (SPA) - Liverpool (ENG) 0-1 0-4 Arsernal (ENG) Roma (ITA) 1-0 0-1 7-6(pk) Inter (ITA) Manchester United (ENG) 0-0 0-2
Quarter Finals Fixtures
Manchester United(ENG) VS Oporto(POR) 2-2 1-0 VS 1-1 0-3 Villarreal(ESP) VS Arsenal(ENG)
Barcelona(ESP) VS Bayern Munich(GER) 4-0 1-1 VS 1-3 4-4 Liverpool(ENG) VS Chelsea(ENG)
to be honest... 1st and 2nd place finishers are very equal in strength. I mean, Chelsea, Inter and the 3 spanish team is very not cool to be playing against in first match of second round considering that you have won the group and suppose to get a easy match. Arsenal will probably will a pain as well if they get walcott back and Lyon is capable of an upset. No idea why Lyon never perform that well in CL.
On December 12 2008 01:45 white_box921 wrote: to be honest... 1st and 2nd place finishers are very equal in strength. I mean, Chelsea, Inter and the 3 spanish team is very not cool to be playing against in first match of second round considering that you have won the group and suppose to get a easy match. Arsenal will probably will a pain as well if they get walcott back and Lyon is capable of an upset. No idea why Lyon never perform that well in CL.
not surprise they don't perform well in the CL, their league is extremely imbalanced, thers no competition whatsoever. the fact that they dominate their league doesn't make them a good team, imo they are overrated without taking away the quality of players they have currently.
well, Lyon have been going through the group stage without much trouble in the last 4-5 years.... anyway, not like I know anything about the french league.
The sad thing is that all of the PL teams will win these games ^^ I think Inter will make for the biggest dissapointment. Juventus might have a chance vs Chelsea if Del Piero wakes up on the right side.
closest one so far, going with liverpool because this season they actually look good and real does not look as good, and then liverpool always looks even stronger in CL
Arsernal (ENG) - Roma (ITA)
also close, I think arsenal is gonna be significantly weaker in CL this season than any other teams from PL, especially their tendency to concede goals on away field screws them over, the team that wins CL has the previous seasons been the team that concedes the least away goals.
Chelsea (ENG) - Juventus (ITA) Villarreal (SPA) - Panathinaikos (GRE) Sporting Portugal (POR) - Bayern Munich (GER) Atlético de Madrid (SPA) - Oporto (POR) O. Lyon (FRA) - Barcelona (SPA) Real Madrid (SPA) - Liverpool (ENG) If Torres recovers Liverpool, if not R.M Arsernal (ENG) - Roma (ITA) Inter (ITA) - Manchester United (ENG)
On December 19 2008 20:33 smurfingchobo wrote: Last year, I was hoping United avoided Lyon. This year I was hoping they'd avoid Inter... -_- Mourinho vs SAF... What's the record between them again?
England teams are overrated this year so far. United is the only strong team, and they got a strong opponent. I would cointoss all those games, along with the Lyon game. Athletico and Bayern are the only sure fire wins. Panathinkaikos can surprise Villareal imo. I actually think Inter has no shot beating United, and I hate United.. but I'm hoping by then Ronaldo's saga is so big that United cracks under pressure.
barcelona can beat every english team and some other teams can beat arsenal, liverpool chelsea or united losing against anyone other than barcelona would be an upset.
On December 20 2008 05:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: barcelona can beat every english team and some other teams can beat arsenal, liverpool chelsea or united losing against anyone other than barcelona would be an upset.
Yup.
I really hope for Torres to be recovered by the time he plays vs Real Madrid !
HUGE draw, ManU may have tough time against Inter imo, and Juve v Chelsea looks sick. Liverpool is on top in the EPL, so they'll probably take down RM and Arsenal v Roma is pretty even (specially since Arsenal have been looking horrible this season). And BARCA will kill Lyon.
On December 20 2008 07:23 ilj.psa wrote: Agreed, Barcelona is one step ahead of every team in the world in this moment.
offtopic: anyone know where can i download FM2009? i had friends get viruses from downloading , so i would appreciate any links
I don't know whether the mods on TL.net are looking kindly upon people asking for game downloads. Getting a virus seems to be a common issue btw, lots of friends got it from their download.
As for my predictions:
ManU Juventus Liverpool (omg, favourite teams up against each other T.T) Villareal Bayern Atletico Barcelona Arsenal
On an unrelated side note: Anyone watching Snooker?
Chelsea (ENG) - Juventus (ITA) Juventus. Also i think there won't be more than 3 goals in the 180 mins of play.Scolari sucks.
Villarreal (SPA) - Panathinaikos (GRE) If Panathinaikos manage not to get beaten too heavily on Villareal's turf they will qualify. I am sure they have the strength to qualify on their field. Greek public and atmosphere > all.
Sporting Portugal (POR) - Bayern Munich (GER) This one is the easiest to predict in my oppinion. With Ribery in form, Bayern is very hard to beat and Sporting aren't an opponent of their callibre imo.
Atlético de Madrid (SPA) - Oporto (POR) Atletico have some good players but they lack experience in european cups, have to go to Porto for the second match and the Portuguese are more solid as a team imo.Porto will go through unless Aguero goes crazy and scores 3 goals.
O. Lyon (FRA) - Barcelona (SPA) Barcelona no doubt. They are on fire and play 2nd leg at Nou Camp.
Real Madrid (SPA) - Liverpool (ENG) I am going to chose Real over Liverpool here because I have faith in Juande Ramo's capability of motivating his team. In spite of his failure with Tottenham, his Sevilla experience has shown that he is a great coach.Liverpool too has a great coach but I don't think that they have a squad capable to challenge for both the Premier League and CL.
Arsenal (ENG) - Roma (ITA) These are two squads that are kind of struggling at the moment, but many things can change before spring. It's a bit of a coin flip, but I choose Arsenal.
Inter (ITA) - Manchester United (ENG) A monster duel. Great teams, great coaches. Luck and the 2 teams' form will decide it.
Chelsea vs Juve I love the Vecchia Signora, but Chelsea is probably the most solid team in the past few years, and they don't seem to be fading away anytime soon. If only Del Piero and Nedved were 4 years younger...
Villarreal vs Panathinaikos The greeks might be able to hold off the Yellow Submarine at the Olympic Stadium, but not at El Madrigal. First leg: 2-0, Second leg: 0-0.
Sporting Portugal vs Bayern The German giants are eager to reestablish themselves as a powerhouse again in the UCL after last years absence, and for that they took out their checkbook in the summer, and I doubt it will be Sporting Portugal the one to stop them.
Atletico Madrid vs Porto I thought Atletico would crash at their first UCL experience since more than a decade. Then again, after watching the group stage, I think they were robbed against Liverpool and deserved to be first in their group. Destiny has awarded their second place with a tough, but very beatable adversary. If nothing changes drastically by February, Atletico should go on to the next round.
O.Lyon vs Barcelona Lyon has never done well in UCL, Lyon has historically done worse against Barcelona, Barcelona has their key players on fire. I very doubt Lyon's hopes will endure further than the first leg. Benzema is not enough.
RM vs Liverpool On paper, Liverpool is doing way better than Real this season. But RM is one of those teams that even in their deeper lows, are capable of beating anyone. If they survive at the Bernabeu, they can take care of them at Anfield, but all depends on how well they fare at the first leg. Btw, Torres has always sunk against RM. Cointoss.
Arsenal vs Roma Roma seems to be struggling a little bit at Serie A, maybe due to their need for time for their new young blood to mix with the really old blood. Le Arse is doing just fine for the squad they have. Maybe they could be doing a little better in the EPL, but the competition there is pretty tough. Arsenal is the favorite here.
bump there are a lot of good games tomorrow but im specially looking forward to the Man.U vs Inter. Top 1 of England vs Top 1 in Italy. Can't make a prediction its too close, hopefully Inter wins ;/
This is for the overall winner and not the first match Inter vs MU MU is just fucking sick right now. It is like a battle of VDS, because I don't think he is a top class GK anymore and I remember him making mistakes after mistakes in last year CL but somehow they still got through. I can't see how luck will be on their side again if VDS decide to play shit again, but on form, it doesn't look like it.
Arsenal vs Roma Arsenal can't produce the result in EPL, but there should be no problem in Euro. I can't see Roma putting 10 men behind the ball and just sit for 90min. The teams in CL are there to win the whole thing, so it is much more open than EPL and this is the time when Arsenal shines.
O.Lyon vs Barcelona I can't see how anyone thinks otherwise.
Atletico Madrid vs Porto I think experience will show, and Porto is at home for second leg. As long as Porto don't lose it completely first game, they should be fine.
Chelsea vs Juve I think Chelsea is getting into grips with themselves and will just about go through. Would not be surprised if it ends up in penalty.
Villarreal vs Panathinaikos Who is Panathinaikos!?!? I don't think I even know one single player, so yea, I am biased here.
Sporting Portugal vs Bayern Bayern is just solid from what I saw in CL group, expecting some professional games which sees them through. I haven't see any Sporting match apart from earlier CL but they just don't look like a team of enough quality.
RM vs Liverpool Purely base on current form, RM looks like they will rape Liverpool. Probably not going to happen because Rafa is a genius in non-winning football games and knows RM very well. But I still think RM got that something extra with all those attacking talent which they are showing recently.
ya things have changed a little since this thread was created liverpool looks weaker, chelsea has gotten guus hiddink, manchester united looks fucking amazing. when the thread was made barcelona looked significantly better, but im not sure about that anymore. going 14 games in a row without conceding a goal in PL is _INCREDIBLE_, they did concede one vs blackburn but thats still one in the last 15 games. then, knowing that champions league has had a very strong tendency to be won by the strongest defensive team, puts united as the top contenders, even if barcelona plays more impressive. (then again they also have had a slight decline in form - although I havent watched their recent games so maybe they were just really unlucky. )
then the problem is that united faces inter, and mourinho is a genius. united remain favourites, but this match is enormous.
real madrid vs liverpool looks much better for real madrid now than a couple months ago. then, liverpool genuinely looked like a stronger team. now I still think they'll win, but now only because its champions league and they don't have to win the games, only not lose. chelsea vs juve, I think chelsea will take it. arsenal vs roma is harder to predict, arsenal does not look strong this season, but roma doesnt really either. honestly, this match isnt all that exciting despite featuring an english and italian team.
as for the other 4 matches they dont interest me too much, barcelona and bayern should both win, villareal should win but I can see a potential upset happening there, and athletico vs porto is up for grabs - but either team loses in the quarter finals, unless they get real lucky with the draw.
God im so pumped for tonight.. my team is Arsenal but they're not in good shape and might be in trouble vs a Roma that is better shape at the moment.
Intel - United will definantly be the highlight match of tonight I WANT Inter to win, i WANT zlatan to finally perform in a real important match.. but United will probably be too strong yet again :I
On February 24 2009 21:44 white_box921 wrote: This is for the overall winner and not the first match Inter vs MU MU is just fucking sick right now. It is like a battle of VDS, because I don't think he is a top class GK anymore and I remember him making mistakes after mistakes in last year CL but somehow they still got through. I can't see how luck will be on their side again if VDS decide to play shit again, but on form, it doesn't look like it.
Arsenal vs Roma Arsenal can't produce the result in EPL, but there should be no problem in Euro. I can't see Roma putting 10 men behind the ball and just sit for 90min. The teams in CL are there to win the whole thing, so it is much more open than EPL and this is the time when Arsenal shines.
O.Lyon vs Barcelona I can't see how anyone thinks otherwise.
Atletico Madrid vs Porto I think experience will show, and Porto is at home for second leg. As long as Porto don't lose it completely first game, they should be fine.
Chelsea vs Juve I think Chelsea is getting into grips with themselves and will just about go through. Would not be surprised if it ends up in penalty.
Villarreal vs Panathinaikos Who is Panathinaikos!?!? I don't think I even know one single player, so yea, I am biased here.
Sporting Portugal vs Bayern Bayern is just solid from what I saw in CL group, expecting some professional games which sees them through. I haven't see any Sporting match apart from earlier CL but they just don't look like a team of enough quality.
RM vs Liverpool Purely base on current form, RM looks like they will rape Liverpool. Probably not going to happen because Rafa is a genius in non-winning football games and knows RM very well. But I still think RM got that something extra with all those attacking talent which they are showing recently.
Rofl, I agree with all these picks. Just hope Arsenal can make it through with their depleted side >.<
Mourinho is like 6-1 against Ferguson, for some reason I think he's gonna pull a genius and take the win by a large margin of goals, improbable but Mourinho is awesome wouldn't surprise me if they take Man.U by surprise at all
On February 24 2009 21:44 white_box921 wrote: This is for the overall winner and not the first match Inter vs MU MU is just fucking sick right now. It is like a battle of VDS, because I don't think he is a top class GK anymore and I remember him making mistakes after mistakes in last year CL but somehow they still got through. I can't see how luck will be on their side again if VDS decide to play shit again, but on form, it doesn't look like it.
Arsenal vs Roma Arsenal can't produce the result in EPL, but there should be no problem in Euro. I can't see Roma putting 10 men behind the ball and just sit for 90min. The teams in CL are there to win the whole thing, so it is much more open than EPL and this is the time when Arsenal shines.
O.Lyon vs Barcelona I can't see how anyone thinks otherwise.
Atletico Madrid vs Porto I think experience will show, and Porto is at home for second leg. As long as Porto don't lose it completely first game, they should be fine.
Chelsea vs Juve I think Chelsea is getting into grips with themselves and will just about go through. Would not be surprised if it ends up in penalty.
Villarreal vs Panathinaikos Who is Panathinaikos!?!? I don't think I even know one single player, so yea, I am biased here.
Sporting Portugal vs Bayern Bayern is just solid from what I saw in CL group, expecting some professional games which sees them through. I haven't see any Sporting match apart from earlier CL but they just don't look like a team of enough quality.
RM vs Liverpool Purely base on current form, RM looks like they will rape Liverpool. Probably not going to happen because Rafa is a genius in non-winning football games and knows RM very well. But I still think RM got that something extra with all those attacking talent which they are showing recently.
Rofl, I agree with all these picks. Just hope Arsenal can make it through with their depleted side >.<
I agree with all but Arsenal. Arsenal has not even scored a single goal in 3 games. Their morale is shot and injuries continue to own them. A team that is centered around a player who can't play right now (Fabregas) and is tying games to teams like Sunderland at home has no place in champions league. That said Roma has rosen to like 4th or 3rd place in their respective league so I think that Roma will take this game albiet a 1-0 or 2-1 score.
I'm so hoping Manchester United can survive this.This sucks without Vidic who clearly is the rock in defence.Ferdinand is overrated imho and we'll miss Vidic for sure. Glory Glory Man United and The Reds keep marching on !
On February 25 2009 01:42 ilj.psa wrote: Mourinho is like 6-1 against Ferguson, for some reason I think he's gonna pull a genius and take the win by a large margin of goals, improbable but Mourinho is awesome wouldn't surprise me if they take Man.U by surprise at all
I really don't understand Inter at all. They have this like insanely awesome record in the Italian league but when I watch their team play it is like just watching a mediocre team. Call it Mourinho's genius if you will, but I seriously think that Man U has faster wingers and are just better overall.
And lol do you except Maicon to be able to stop C. Ronaldo or Ji Sung Park?
I am not sure if the record between mourinho and SAF matters because it was from previous encounter during his time at chelsea. I agree Rio is very over-rated, but then I can't remember the inter forwards producing when it matters, be it with the club or international. Or it can be I don't watch enough italian football, but then judging by previous years in the CL the italian teams aren't exactly good at defending (the general perception).
On February 25 2009 02:22 Fzero wrote: RM vs Liverpool Sporting v Bayern Villarreal vs Panathinaikos Chelsea vs Juve Atletico Madrid vs Porto O.Lyon vs Barcelona Arsenal vs Roma Inter vs MU
mourinhos record is also from when he managed porto :p
if it was united vs any team other than inter or barcelona, united would be clear favourites. vs inter, largely because of mourinho, this game is relatively open. I wouldn't expect many goals tho, wouldnt be surprised to see like a 1-0 win from united in one game and 0-0 in the other, both teams are strongest defensively and tactically. united has more players who can win games, mourinho is more of a manager who can pull a move that wins games. (not saying he is a better manager than ferguson - but doing surprise awesome moves that turn games around / making his team overperform is more mourinho's forte than fergusons. )
On February 25 2009 02:15 white_box921 wrote: I am not sure if the record between mourinho and SAF matters because it was from previous encounter during his time at chelsea. I agree Rio is very over-rated, but then I can't remember the inter forwards producing when it matters, be it with the club or international. Or it can be I don't watch enough italian football, but then judging by previous years in the CL the italian teams aren't exactly good at defending (the general perception).
lol italians teams are known for their incredible defending and their attack sucking just look at their league, a very defensive league with very few porcent of goals per game. Tho inter are one of the few italian teams that has no weakness anywhere and very complete overall
btw that record is when Mourinho manage Porto too not just Chelsea
oh... so mourinho only played SAF during normal league games during his three full season, quite surprising -_- i am sure the italians are good at defending in their own league, but seriously, when it comes to CL they just as bad as every other team. For all that I can remember from last season, Milan got owned at home, so did Inter and Roma was just sad playing MU in two straight years.
Great first half despite no goals, very entertaining. I don't understand how United gets so much space in midfield, it looks like inter only has an attacking midfield then the back four. Isn't Cambiasso supposed to be a holding midfielder? United has wasted a lot of chances, Julio Cesar has done very well, though on one of the freekicks, Ronaldo actually hit the post instead of Cesar's hand. Inter's attack looks worse than Blackburn's. Their finishing has been awful. I think Rooney/Tevez really need to come on, Berbatov is too slow for this kind of game. For Inter, their centre defense has been horrible, their attack too. It seems like Inter just plays at a slower pace than United, though United hasn't been able to get a goal. Looking forward to the second half.
I also went out and bought some british beer brewed in manchester, bodington I think it's called, very good taste, very different from other European beers.
Berbatov too slow ?Have you actually seen how he holds the ball ? He has great technical abilities and it suits him perfectly in continental games.Games are played slower unlike EPL where it's all about speed.
On February 25 2009 05:45 Mista wrote: Berbatov too slow ?Have you actually seen how he holds the ball ? He has great technical abilities and it suits him perfectly in continental games.Games are played slower unlike EPL where it's all about speed.
He hasn't done very well in holding the balls so far. This is a box to box game, Berbatov can't just stay in the box and get balls feeded to him.
according to people in my house, who decide to watch arsenal on his laptop instead of MU on a 42" plasma, bendtner should go fuck himself and go back on loan to birmingham.
I hold arsenal would score a few goals more so he will calm down a bit, he is absolutely going mental right now.
anyway, I can't believe MU still haven't score. But inter is coming back into the game
Atlético played poorly, could have been raped so badly, ended 2-2. Barça had soon a goal against but controlled the game. When Juninho gets tired Lyon turns off. I think they are gonna get 3-0ed at Camp Nou.
On February 25 2009 05:45 Mista wrote: Berbatov too slow ?Have you actually seen how he holds the ball ? He has great technical abilities and it suits him perfectly in continental games.Games are played slower unlike EPL where it's all about speed.
He hasn't done very well in holding the balls so far. This is a box to box game, Berbatov can't just stay in the box and get balls feeded to him.
Yeah Berbatov wasn't much of a goal threat. They just used him to hold the ball up and tie up defenders. Man.U were set up to hold on to the ball as much as possible. I don't think I saw a single long ball or pass played behind the defence. They played tight and tried to make sure the game wasn't stretched. I think Ferguson was making sure Inter couldn't have possession much to avoid a long spell of play in the United half.
Mourinho said himself United would set up differently and they definitely did. Last time United came to the San Siro they lost. In that game they tried to play their fluid attacking style, but they just got dominated in midfield and couldn't get the ball to the forwards. Sir Alex obviously decided he wanted to avoid that and play a possesion game relying on his midfielders to produce some magic for a goal. When you have players like Ronaldo and Giggs you can do that sort of thing.... and it almost worked.
But United have to take some blame for the 0-0. Even as the game went on Ferguson was very reluctant to let it get too open. He didn't bring on Rooney til very late in the game, whilst Mourinho on the other hand went 4-3-3 to try to get some end to end stuff going on.
This is the problem with CL football, it does encourage defensive play and that's something Ferguson has clearly learned over the years.
chelsea vs juventus what an awful game, so boring. I like Amauri though, he's a little old but I wonder why premiership teams didn't jump on him last summer.
On February 25 2009 05:45 Mista wrote: Berbatov too slow ?Have you actually seen how he holds the ball ? He has great technical abilities and it suits him perfectly in continental games.Games are played slower unlike EPL where it's all about speed.
He hasn't done very well in holding the balls so far. This is a box to box game, Berbatov can't just stay in the box and get balls feeded to him.
Yeah Berbatov wasn't much of a goal threat. They just used him to hold the ball up and tie up defenders. Man.U were set up to hold on to the ball as much as possible. I don't think I saw a single long ball or pass played behind the defence. They played tight and tried to make sure the game wasn't stretched. I think Ferguson was making sure Inter couldn't have possession much to avoid a long spell of play in the United half.
Mourinho said himself United would set up differently and they definitely did. Last time United came to the San Siro they lost. In that game they tried to play their fluid attacking style, but they just got dominated in midfield and couldn't get the ball to the forwards. Sir Alex obviously decided he wanted to avoid that and play a possesion game relying on his midfielders to produce some magic for a goal. When you have players like Ronaldo and Giggs you can do that sort of thing.... and it almost worked.
But United have to take some blame for the 0-0. Even as the game went on Ferguson was very reluctant to let it get too open. He didn't bring on Rooney til very late in the game, whilst Mourinho on the other hand went 4-3-3 to try to get some end to end stuff going on.
This is the problem with CL football, it does encourage defensive play and that's something Ferguson has clearly learned over the years.
I don't know, Milan's midfield is a lot better than Inter's especially Inter without Vieira. Cambiasso looked non existent last night. That was an overly conservative decision on Ferguson's part imo.
Well he's supposed to be a holding midfielder right, it looked like there was no one in Inter's central midfield and United could just get the ball from their half to inter's half without any problems through the middle or from the wings.
yes, I think we all know that Liverpool is boring by now, but as long as they keep getting result in CL I guess it doesn't matter. My only prediction going bad at the moment, and I hope RM will do a lot better 2nd leg.
This is also a reason why I watched chelsea-juve but it turned out to be rediculously awful, luckily the place I went had all four matches on in different rooms.
how did i get the idea cambiasso played bad then lol, maybe i was just too entranced with ronaldo. It sounds like I didn't miss much by watching the chelsea juve game, these big champions league ties have a lot of hype surrounding them but they have all been pretty disappointing.
On February 26 2009 09:39 zulu_nation8 wrote: how did i get the idea cambiasso played bad then lol, maybe i was just too entranced with ronaldo. It sounds like I didn't miss much by watching the chelsea juve game, these big champions league ties have a lot of hype surrounding them but they have all been pretty disappointing.
Yup every year the same. It's not a league it's a cup and like all cup competitions there's no disadvantage in drawing so teams naturally defend.
I can think of years where it hasn't been like this though, the first thing that comes to my mind is the year when Porto won, Monaco and Deportivo both made amazing comebacks in the quarter and semi-finals.
Unfortunately this year I can see this going to an all English final again. Although it is no secret i'm a huge Man U fan, I would love for them to play a team from Spain or Italy in the finals this time. A Man U vs Liverpool/Chelsea final would just not be as cool.
On February 27 2009 06:09 kidd wrote: Unfortunately this year I can see this going to an all English final again. Although it is no secret i'm a huge Man U fan, I would love for them to play a team from Spain or Italy in the finals this time. A Man U vs Liverpool/Chelsea final would just not be as cool.
Purely speculating of course.
i think Barca still is a better candidate than any English team IMO
i thought barca was the strongest candidate one month ago united is currently looking like the best defensive team through all time though, literally, and while barca has pretty much been the best offensive team through all time this season defense is more valuable in CL, and it seems like barca might have finally declined a little in form.
On February 27 2009 06:09 kidd wrote: Unfortunately this year I can see this going to an all English final again. Although it is no secret i'm a huge Man U fan, I would love for them to play a team from Spain or Italy in the finals this time. A Man U vs Liverpool/Chelsea final would just not be as cool.
Purely speculating of course.
i think Barca still is a better candidate than any English team IMO
If this was maybe 1 - 2 months ago, I would have agreed with you. In current form I'd say Man U is the best team followed closely by Liverpool (can't believe i'm saying this) and a newly rivaltilized Chelsea with Hiddink.
well Inista and Milito are back so I think they'll cover all the weak spots with them except goalkeeper that spot still sucks , my main lineup would be something like this:
---------------------- Valdez ----------------------------- Alvez-------- Puyol----------- Milito ------- Abidal --------------------- Toure Yaya------------------------- Xavi----------------------------------------------- Iniesta Messi -------------------------------------------- Henry ------------------------ Eto'o-------------------------------
on defense Barca also have 3 very good defenders: Pique, Marquez, Caceres if needed. imo the 2 losses can get some justification: In the Espanyol game they played with 10 men, and Busquets isn't Iniesta, he lacks experience to be a starter in a CL game.
abidal is injured for 2 months and milito cant play yet. i really hope pep starts using sylvinho, at least till abidal is back. i hope barca will start winning games again.
I read some rumors that Barca made already a move for Rivery and signed some pre-agreement, would be nice to see him there, i think he would fit with Barca's style just imagine him and Messi playing together. All just rumors , Madrid also has as much possiblitties as Barca of landing him
Real Madrid is already down 0-2 and are playing like shit. Terrible defensive mistakes followed by no midfield. Liverpool is totally dominating possession.
On March 11 2009 05:31 white_box921 wrote: damn... i just really hate liverpool when they are at home, the refs are like way too bias to be real for like every single match in my memory
Whatever, they were doing whatever they wanted during 1st half, RM is getting destroyed.
Liverpool's first two were unlucky for RM, but they thoroughly dominated the game and deserved their win.
Chelsea were all but home once Essien scored.
Bayen delivered one of the sickest two-leg rapes I've seen in a long, long time.
Villareal and Panathinaikos --- meh. Villareal is punching above its weight from here on in and will do well to make it past the quarters.
As for tonight:
Man U vs Inter --- if the first leg was anything to go by Man U will win easily. Mourinho is a great coach though so Inter could pull something out. I expect them to play classic Italian defensive style vs Man U's agressive offense. Should be fun!
Barca vs Lyon --- Lyon are always touted as darkhorses, but are perennial underachievers for me. Barca will take this 2-0.
Porto vs Athletico --- don't really know either team that well to make a good judgement. I'll go the home team.
Roma vs Arsenal --- CL has been dominated by EPL teams in recent years and I expect this to continue. Arsenal have been arse-horrible domestically, but still found room to dominate Roma in the first leg and could easily be 3 up. Roma don't do it for me and I suspect an early away goal will seal their fate.
I just have some strange feeling that Mourinho will somehow win and come out to media with all his usual shit 'I am the one', 'I offer the only competition SAF had' and etc.
Roma's tie looks bad for them, Arsenal had an easy game at the weekend and Theo is BACK!
Quarters: Arsenal>Villareal Arsenal should prove too strong
Man Utd>Porto ^Ditto
Liverpool>Chelsea lol AGAIN? How many times is it now, 5 years running? No Riise to help Chelsea this time. It should prove to be yet another tight (re:boring) fixture for "pure" football fans. I think it should be an exciting series, going by years passed
Barca>Bayern Isn't Klose out for 2 months? I don't see how they can win w/o their leading scorer. That, and Barca is a very strong team.
Semis: Man Utd>Arsenal This will probably be billed as a high scoring fixture--much like last years MU/Barca--and will probably prove otherwise. I don't see United's great defense allow many goals and Arsenal will probably squander many chances trying to make the 'perfect goal' per usual.
Barca>Liverpool I don't know. Liverpool have proven to be strong in Europe, but I just don't like them :p
Barca>Man Utd Though hoping United! Not a single team has won the CL consecutively Will United be the first? (CL curse, tbqh)
On a side note, which of these hypothetical finals do you think would have a better 'story line': Man Utd v Chelsea rematch or Arsenal v Barca rematch
Arsenal/Barca would be intense as Henry is now playing for the same team that knocked him off in the finals. I'd definitely see the tension in this fixture from fans and players alike.
Man Utd/Chelsea is, well, a rematch of last years final. After that heart breaker in penalties, and Terry's slip-up, this match would be a personal one.
Let's see how right/wrong I am when it's all said and done, haha
ya united ends up in final 4 out of 5 times now liverpool chelsea and barca bayern are both huge.. most likely 3 english teams+barca in semi finals again, it is possible that villareal can beat arsenal tho. porto did knock out united once before, but that was a far stronger porto with mourinho against a far weaker united. it happening this year would be the biggest upset in the history of the champions league :D united ending up in final is more likely than ever, but theres like an almost equal chance for liverpool chelsea and barcelona to take the other spot, prolly something like 35% liverpool 30% barcelona 25% chelsea 10% bayern
Damn drone...why u hating on Arsenal? You don't think they can beat United? they already beat them in the Prem this year, and i like this sort of new look arsenal with Arshavin and Walcott causing trouble on the sides.
Personally i think and HOPE the final will be Arsenal vs Barca
Like in 2006...the return of Henry and Hleb - Fabregas vs Barca, so many good stories and connections for that one
really not hating on arsenal, they're by far my favourite team among the remaining top 4 english teams I just really dont think they have what it takes in a semi final against manchester united.. they're not consistent, dont have enough experience, they have several players likely to do ridiculously stupid stuff.. they're the english team that plays the by far most beautiful football, but its been a good while since CL was about just that.. defensively they're horrible compared to united, defense also happens to be the most important aspect in CL..
not like they dont have a chance, the 20% I give them is a decent shot. :p
I guess arshavin and eduardos return improves things for them but meh, still not enough.. id love to see them succeed tho
as much as i love arsenal, ManU is playing very well. they had a few hiccups now and then, but their defense is downright one of the most solid. Arsenal on the other hand has a weaaaak defense and their players still lack experience! although arsenal won 2-0 in the premier league (i still dont know how that happened haha) i doubt it'll happen again.
pitting ManU's offense against Arsenal's defense, and Arsenal's offense against ManU's defense.. i just dont see it working out for Arsenal. this saddens me T_T
I hate the fact that my two favorite English teams (leaning a bit towards chelsea) are playing eachother. (I know it's impossible to be a true fan of Chelsea and pool, but I'm not a true premiership fan, it's all PZPN (polish) for me...CWKS)
In the end, I'll be happy if anyone other than MANUre wins.
Chelsea vs Liverpool is funny for me. I am kinda assuming that Chelsea will win however. Since the addition of the new coach Chelsea has shown great form in both the premiereship and champions league. I also can't wait till Man U knocks out Arsenal because they are just lame. I'm sure it will be a good match though because Arshevin has also given Arsenal quite the boost in their game (they won 4-0 last week, and weren't even scoring goals at all much before that).
I hope for a Barca vs Man U final which would be so awesome, although it will probably be an all English final again.. Man U vs Chelsea/Liverpool.
Quarter Finals (April 7th-8th, April 14th-15th, 2009) 1. Villarreal vs Arsenal 2. Manchester United vs Porto 3. Liverpool vs Chelsea 4. Barcelona vs Bayern
Im happy there's no real title contenders facing each other, makes the CL more enjoyable.
1. Arsenal 2. Man. U 3. Can't decide , really hard 4. Barcelona
ya ok I agree, this season they don't. but they are trying to hehe and I do believe that when arsenal really makes their attack work, which isnt common at all this season, then they still play the most attractive football.
Barça will have to face the second game in Munich, and if they manage to pass, they'll have to face the semifinals second game in Anfield or Stamford Bridge... What a bad luck.
On April 07 2009 13:28 ilj.psa wrote: im pumped to see Arsenal face Villareal today , i want to see how Arshavin complements with Fabregas and Walcott on big games.
On April 08 2009 04:44 ItchReliever wrote: which has been a better game so far? im just now tuning in
Haven't really been paying attention to the Arsenal game but I did see them lose 2 players to injury. Almunia and Gallas have both gone off and are currently down 1-nil.
United have been getting dominated at home to Porto. Porto have been creating the most chances and are unlucky not to be ahead by a goal or two. As has been said earlier, United scored off a mistake by Alves. It was a gift, really. I'm hoping they turn it up in the second half.
On April 08 2009 05:08 kidd wrote: United is not getting dominated. Possesion has stayed at 60-40 all game. United is basically beating themselves and are lucky Porto is just weak.
Possession doesn't tell the story of the game. Porto are attacking fast and swift while United pass the ball around. Porto have had the most, and best, chances.
I hear ya. That Fernando of Porto was definitely MotM. He kept stopping ManU's plays time and time again. The only blip on his performance was that late free kick he allowed, but lucky for him, and unlucky for United fans, nothing came of it. Frustrating game, nonetheless.
Porto must be brimming with confidence taking a result like that back home. United now has to go and do what no English team has done and defeat Porto at Estadio do Dragao.
cool porto vs united game ;p porto was impressive, united subpar, funny how much worse their defense has been in the past month or two or possibly theres just a lot more luck to it than we like to think
I thought it wasn't a matter of Man U underperforming. Objectively, Porto's midfield and wings are superior to Manchester's - the one's on the pitch at least. How was United hoping to transition to offense with Park on the left and Fletcher (backed up by O'Shea LOL) on the right?
Man I don't know what to say. I think United needs a creative player in the midfield, someone like who Scholes used to be. We really can't keep scrapping goals like this to finish off the season. Porto was very impressive, certainly the best side United has played in the Champion's League this year. Their attackers are all fast and direct. I hope Fergie can pull out something special in the 2nd leg because that was some of the most uncreative and uninspiring offense I've ever witnessed from United.
I don't know if Rafael is hurt or something, but it would seem he should be the obvious starter ahead of O'Shea and Neville especially considering how quick Porto's attackers are. On the second goal, I think Neville should take part of the responsibility for completely losing track of the last defender.
On April 08 2009 08:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: Man I don't know what to say. I think United needs a creative player in the midfield, someone like who Scholes used to be. We really can't keep scrapping goals like this to finish off the season. Porto was very impressive, certainly the best side United has played in the Champion's League this year. Their attackers are all fast and direct. I hope Fergie can pull out something special in the 2nd leg because that was some of the most uncreative and uninspiring offense I've ever witnessed from United.
I don't know if Rafael is hurt or something, but it would seem he should be the obvious starter ahead of O'Shea and Neville especially considering how quick Porto's attackers are. On the second goal, I think Neville should take part of the responsibility for completely losing track of the last defender.
Yeah you're right. Neville was at fault on Sunday as well. Since he came back he's been nothing like on form and I don't understand why he keeps getting played. He basically cost United the win.
I don't think they were poor going forward. With Rooney and Ronaldo(even if he's not on form) in the side, you've always got a chance to score. They inconsistency doesn't help that's for sure, but then they haven't really hit top form upfront all season.
United managed to step it up on Sunday, now it looks like they have to go to Porto and step their game up AGAIN. So far this season they've had this fighting spirit that has pulled them through, if that begins to falter it could all fall apart.
What the hell United...defense was atrocious.After United's long unbeatable streak they've gotten worse..Porto hasn't lost at home all season.It's gonna be hard for United but i have faith they can pull it off. GGMU
Is hulk better than quaresma and carlos alberto when they were at porto? He seems like a really good attacker, fast, good dribbling, good vision, passing, can play on both wings, etc. I know Christian Rodriguez is already a really good prospect.
Secod goal was not Nevilles fault. He had to choose from two many who to take. Of course he took the 1 closer to goal since he was more dangerous(then the guy on back). The error was made by no1 backing up Evra attacking. Leading to 4 v 3 attack.
First goal was thanks to first Ronaldos horrible pass leading to Evans horrible pass. Evans was horrible overalt imho :D.
On April 08 2009 08:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: Man I don't know what to say. I think United needs a creative player in the midfield, someone like who Scholes used to be. We really can't keep scrapping goals like this to finish off the season. Porto was very impressive, certainly the best side United has played in the Champion's League this year. Their attackers are all fast and direct. I hope Fergie can pull out something special in the 2nd leg because that was some of the most uncreative and uninspiring offense I've ever witnessed from United.
I don't know if Rafael is hurt or something, but it would seem he should be the obvious starter ahead of O'Shea and Neville especially considering how quick Porto's attackers are. On the second goal, I think Neville should take part of the responsibility for completely losing track of the last defender.
Yeah you're right. Neville was at fault on Sunday as well. Since he came back he's been nothing like on form and I don't understand why he keeps getting played. He basically cost United the win.
I don't think they were poor going forward. With Rooney and Ronaldo(even if he's not on form) in the side, you've always got a chance to score. They inconsistency doesn't help that's for sure, but then they haven't really hit top form upfront all season.
United managed to step it up on Sunday, now it looks like they have to go to Porto and step their game up AGAIN. So far this season they've had this fighting spirit that has pulled them through, if that begins to falter it could all fall apart.
United have a very slim chance of advancing now. A 2-2 draw is really really good for Porto especially being the underdog of the two. I think I read somewhere that no English team has ever won a game away vs Porto either.
Basically, United needs to have its full uninjured lineup back in action, which is all but a fantasy right now. The only thing I can say is that if any team could go to Porto and win a game in a miraculous fashion, United would be the team.
I'm interested in watching Barca vs Bayern today. If Bayern can keep up their amazing run in Champions League then this could make for an amazing game. I have a strong feeling that the game will not end in a 0-0 draw.
On the other hand I'm quite sure that the Chelsea Liverpool game will either result in a draw or the home teams each winning. Chelsea has been doing awesome with Hiddink and Liverpool is also on a great run as of late.
I'm interested in watching Barca vs Bayern today. If Bayern can keep up their amazing run in Champions League then this could make for an amazing game. I have a strong feeling that the game will not end in a 0-0 draw.
Good news everyone, Lell is going to replace the injured Lahm. Game will definitely not end goalless for Barca. Oh and Klinsmann is planning to replace the goalkeeper, too ^^
On April 09 2009 01:02 kidd wrote: United have a very slim chance of advancing now. A 2-2 draw is really really good for Porto especially being the underdog of the two. I think I read somewhere that no English team has ever won a game away vs Porto either.
Basically, United needs to have its full uninjured lineup back in action, which is all but a fantasy right now. The only thing I can say is that if any team could go to Porto and win a game in a miraculous fashion, United would be the team.
I'm interested in watching Barca vs Bayern today. If Bayern can keep up their amazing run in Champions League then this could make for an amazing game. I have a strong feeling that the game will not end in a 0-0 draw.
On the other hand I'm quite sure that the Chelsea Liverpool game will either result in a draw or the home teams each winning. Chelsea has been doing awesome with Hiddink and Liverpool is also on a great run as of late.
on the ManU part, I still think then can win, just gotta get rid of these injuries >< I believe Porto has 8 loses and 2 draws vs eng teams on their territory, and those 2 draws come from ManU lol~
On April 08 2009 17:52 kroko wrote: Secod goal was not Nevilles fault. He had to choose from two many who to take. Of course he took the 1 closer to goal since he was more dangerous(then the guy on back). The error was made by no1 backing up Evra attacking. Leading to 4 v 3 attack.
First goal was thanks to first Ronaldos horrible pass leading to Evans horrible pass. Evans was horrible overalt imho :D.
yea I watched it again, I forgot who it was but someone was supposed to mark the player Neville was marking which would allow Neville to mark the last attacker, I think it was either Evans or Fletcher who was too slow in tracking back, probably Evans. Also Porto had a lot of players committed to the counterattack so United's defense was going to be outnumbered unless everyone was super fast in getting back.
On April 08 2009 12:09 zulu_nation8 wrote: Is hulk better than quaresma and carlos alberto when they were at porto? He seems like a really good attacker, fast, good dribbling, good vision, passing, can play on both wings, etc. I know Christian Rodriguez is already a really good prospect.
hulk seemed absolutely horrible to me the amount of useless dribbling he does that leads to a loss of possession, absolutely no field vision or passing skills makes him a one dimensional talentless forward. Besides being relatively fast and well-built hes got absolutely nothing going for himself
I think ManU can win it, but they have to figure out a way to get forward without overly exposing themselves to the counter. Porto showed some really sick countering.
One thing I didn't understand was having Giggs take the freekick opportunity at the end of the game. How do you not have Ronaldo take that?
On April 09 2009 02:06 Rho_ wrote: I think ManU can win it, but they have to figure out a way to get forward without overly exposing themselves to the counter. Porto showed some really sick countering.
One thing I didn't understand was having Giggs take the freekick opportunity at the end of the game. How do you not have Ronaldo take that?
you shouldnt be breaking a bad game into separate episodes where one team could get the upper hand accidentally. Giggs was a good call since thats probably not what goalie was expecting and ronaldo was having a bad game to begin with. MU never deserved to win that game, esp seeing the first half. What seemed to be constant pressure in the second was Porto giving up the initiative. Their players got really tired after playing pressing for 30 minutes. You can notice how Porto had about 35% ball possession first half but took 3-4 times more shots on goal, which means they had to do a lot of running around trying to set up a counter overall a strategical win for Porto hands down, MU looked godawful that doesnt mean they got a "slim" chance to advance, thats just careless thing to say. MU can come out and win 3-0 and no one will be surprised.
On April 09 2009 04:04 fbs wrote: hehe Messi booked for diving and it was actually a foul! That's what you get for having a reputation for being a cheat I guess.
What? Since when does he have a reputation of being a cheat? Not that I know of, and I've seen all barça games. Don't pull stuff out of your ass.
On April 09 2009 02:06 Rho_ wrote: I think ManU can win it, but they have to figure out a way to get forward without overly exposing themselves to the counter. Porto showed some really sick countering.
One thing I didn't understand was having Giggs take the freekick opportunity at the end of the game. How do you not have Ronaldo take that?
you shouldnt be breaking a bad game into separate episodes where one team could get the upper hand accidentally. Giggs was a good call since thats probably not what goalie was expecting and ronaldo was having a bad game to begin with. MU never deserved to win that game, esp seeing the first half. What seemed to be constant pressure in the second was Porto giving up the initiative. Their players got really tired after playing pressing for 30 minutes. You can notice how Porto had about 35% ball possession first half but took 3-4 times more shots on goal, which means they had to do a lot of running around trying to set up a counter overall a strategical win for Porto hands down, MU looked godawful that doesnt mean they got a "slim" chance to advance, thats just careless thing to say. MU can come out and win 3-0 and no one will be surprised.
Yeah, I agree. When I said I think they can win it, I was referring to the 2nd leg. You're right that MU didn't deserve to win that game.
Both of these games r over, unless miracle happens. I dont follow english football much, was suprised that Ivanovic made two goals, cause I have never heard of him :D. Drogbas goal was beatifull, 2 awsome passes, first Ballack to Malouda, and then to Drogba.
Could be a blessing in disguise for Liverpool. Will let them solely focus on a PL push.
Still I think they got a bit over-confident having beat Chelsea twice this year and being 1-0 up so soon. Conceding two goals from corners like they did is -___-
I actually wouldn't mind seeing Chelsea win after last year's shenanigans.
As a Man Utd fan I am so glad Barca are not on our side of the bracket...I don't think ANY team could stand up to that first half performance. Messi is a monster.
On April 09 2009 09:21 jigga wrote: As a Man Utd fan I am so glad Barca are not on our side of the bracket...I don't think ANY team could stand up to that first half performance. Messi is a monster.
I have to disagree. Bayern played absolutely horrible. This match is not suited to determine Barcelona's true strength. Bayern's actual defense was all injured, so they had to put in the reserve players who just can't deal with someone like Messi or Eto'o. A team with a stronger defense (Chelsea comes to mind) would certainly fare a lot better. That being said, I really hope Hoeness gives Klinsmann the boot, this guy isn't much of a coach anyways..
the Liverpool -Chelsea game was exciting too watch, very fast paced, and the Barca game was just a one sided rape, but a beautiful one sided -rape. Barca will win the CL this year, i don't see any english team beating them. i just hope Messi doesn't get injured.
On April 09 2009 02:06 Rho_ wrote: I think ManU can win it, but they have to figure out a way to get forward without overly exposing themselves to the counter. Porto showed some really sick countering.
One thing I didn't understand was having Giggs take the freekick opportunity at the end of the game. How do you not have Ronaldo take that?
you shouldnt be breaking a bad game into separate episodes where one team could get the upper hand accidentally. Giggs was a good call since thats probably not what goalie was expecting and ronaldo was having a bad game to begin with. MU never deserved to win that game, esp seeing the first half. What seemed to be constant pressure in the second was Porto giving up the initiative. Their players got really tired after playing pressing for 30 minutes. You can notice how Porto had about 35% ball possession first half but took 3-4 times more shots on goal, which means they had to do a lot of running around trying to set up a counter overall a strategical win for Porto hands down, MU looked godawful that doesnt mean they got a "slim" chance to advance, thats just careless thing to say. MU can come out and win 3-0 and no one will be surprised.
Yeah, I agree. When I said I think they can win it, I was referring to the 2nd leg. You're right that MU didn't deserve to win that game.
totally man, you make good points, i just responded to giggs taking a free kick and then started going about the game i've seen someone say that game was nice but MU got tiny chances and kind of responded alltogether im going to watch barcelona atm, its late but barca vs bayern is classic
On April 09 2009 11:08 ilj.psa wrote: the Liverpool -Chelsea game was exciting too watch, very fast paced, and the Barca game was just a one sided rape, but a beautiful one sided -rape. Barca will win the CL this year, i don't see any english team beating them. i just hope Messi doesn't get injured.
ya phil i guess it's not that uncommon of an occurrence, was just annoyed because i like both barca and hiddink^^ i was thinking since way back that the only team that could stop barca this year was chelsea.
btw is there a good site where you can download/ rewatch games?
On April 09 2009 11:54 ItchReliever wrote: ya phil i guess it's not that uncommon of an occurrence, was just annoyed because i like both barca and hiddink^^ i was thinking since way back that the only team that could stop barca this year was chelsea.
btw is there a good site where you can download/ rewatch games?
www.rojadirecta.org all games are there to dl, just gotta wait till they come up
Barça is not only Messi as it wasn't only Ronaldinho. Barça is Xavi and Iniesta dominating in the middlefield and creating football with every combination. Then you add top strikers as Messi or Eto'o and you get the deadly combo, but IMO, Xavi and Iniesta are more important. If they are out I'm sure Messi can't win in his own.
On April 09 2009 19:06 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Unless u didnt realize it: Barca is that amazing because of MANY gamers..
the list goes on.. no single weak player..
Valdés. Spanish Football Federation does not allow Barsa to sign a real goalkeeper because if Barsa doesn't concede any goals they will lose lots of money in sponsorship.
On April 09 2009 19:07 poilord wrote: Wow, it was really painful to watch Bayern completely get outclassed. At points it looked like a world-class team playing a third rate opponent...
Well, to withstand Barcas onslaught you need a world class defense, while the defense is Bayerns weakest point even without injuries. Additionally the team seems totally out of control, losing 1-5 to Wolfsburg is more proof of that.
On April 09 2009 11:54 ItchReliever wrote: ya phil i guess it's not that uncommon of an occurrence, was just annoyed because i like both barca and hiddink^^ i was thinking since way back that the only team that could stop barca this year was chelsea.
btw is there a good site where you can download/ rewatch games?
www.rojadirecta.org all games are there to dl, just gotta wait till they come up
yeah barca looked scary, they playing the game on a different level right now. Passing, field vision and decision making is just insane. Also looks like they all have a strong desire to play together, which is the best thing out of all. Its somewhat a moody team so anything can happen later on, but atm its the best team in the league.
On April 09 2009 11:54 ItchReliever wrote: ya phil i guess it's not that uncommon of an occurrence, was just annoyed because i like both barca and hiddink^^ i was thinking since way back that the only team that could stop barca this year was chelsea.
btw is there a good site where you can download/ rewatch games?
www.rojadirecta.org all games are there to dl, just gotta wait till they come up
yes you can download full matches, just click on "Download Matches" the CL games should be there ,didn't know that forum where they put all the CL matches tho
On April 15 2009 01:55 JudasT wrote: Quarter-finals
First leg Villarreal - Arsenal 1-1 Man. United - Porto 2-2 Liverpool - Chelsea 1-3 Barcelona - Bayern 4-0
Today:
Chelsea - Liverpool Bayern - Barcelona
I'd like Barça vs Chelsea semifinal REVENGE !!!
Sorry to break this to you but i personally think Barca will lose to either Chelsea or Liverpool....No offense to Bayern and Lyon but they have been significantly weaker opponents and have made Barca look invisible...Neither Lyon or Bayern even have a hold of their domestic leagues. Premiership is on another level right now..look at what liverpool did to Madrid. I'm very interested to see Barca vs Liverpool/Chelsea tho... i just wouldn't bet on Barca if i was a betting man
what a great game, while I am really sad Liverpool didnt advance I am happy they went out there to win and gave their best. Fucking Pepe Reina x(. overall chelsea is the better team and deserves to advance.
On April 15 2009 05:41 TonyL2 wrote: What a second half, I'm glad that I don't support either of those teams because I'd be elated and panicking 24/7 through that. Such a good game
haha the momentum of that game changed pretty much every 5 minutes in the second half.
On April 15 2009 01:55 JudasT wrote: Quarter-finals
First leg Villarreal - Arsenal 1-1 Man. United - Porto 2-2 Liverpool - Chelsea 1-3 Barcelona - Bayern 4-0
Today:
Chelsea - Liverpool Bayern - Barcelona
I'd like Barça vs Chelsea semifinal REVENGE !!!
Sorry to break this to you but i personally think Barca will lose to either Chelsea or Liverpool....No offense to Bayern and Lyon but they have been significantly weaker opponents and have made Barca look invisible...Neither Lyon or Bayern even have a hold of their domestic leagues. Premiership is on another level right now..look at what liverpool did to Madrid. I'm very interested to see Barca vs Liverpool/Chelsea tho... i just wouldn't bet on Barca if i was a betting man
Edit : Prediction for final Arsenal vs Liverpool
ARSENAL 2009 CL CHAMPS!!!
i pray to god it happens!! Go gunners!
Yeah Lyon and Bayern have played pretty week, but Barça has also played spectacularly almost the whole season. Despite Premiership being on a whole different level right now, I still thing Barça is one (if not the only) few teams outside UK that can put a fight against any english teams without being weaker on paper.
It's funny you say the games of Barça vs Lyon or Bayern are not really a good way to mesure Barça's true strength (which I agree with you) and yet you use the Liverpool vs Madrid to argue how strong english teams are, when Madrid has been playing like crap even worse than Lyon or Bayern... a bit biased, eh?
On April 15 2009 06:12 Liquid`Drone wrote: PL is certainly the strongest league, but barca might still be the strongest team. we'll get a better indicator of that after semi and finals
I think that Barca is only immortal at home. They definately show some major signs of weakness when playing away. As long as any team can produce a 0-0 tie or even 1-1 Barca can definately be beaten.
I just wanna see some good games since I don't care for any of the teams except for Man U, even so, I didn't enjoy last year's Barca vs Man U series. I was really expecting to see some beautiful attacking football but rather it was just each team's defense owning the other's. Watching how Evra has played lately I really can't comprehend how he was able to shut down Messi last year. Chelsea however looks much more vulnerable than United of last year and Barca of course is stronger overall than last year so I'm definitely excited to see what will happen.
United's defense has been horrible lately. It's funny that both teams played better away than at home. Even so I think United was lucky to scrape a win, they gotta do better vs Arsenal.
Don't think Arsenal has a chance of winning this year's CL, its gonna go to the winner of the Barca - Chelsea imo. With Arshavin the story would had been completely different tho, that guy is fucking brilliant, he added that special something that has been missing at Arsenal, i really think he's one of the most underrated players in the world.
I think arsenal has a great chance against MU, because one is really on a run and the other kind of lost somewhere in the wild. The surprising and amazing thing is that everytime I look at arsenal's teamsheet I think their back 4 is crap, and watching the games just keeps reminding me of the same fact that their defense sucks but somehow they don't concede a lot of goals. MU have got tired players all round and those stupid old bat (scholes/giggs/gary) can't bloody play the game at the highest level anymore. It is ok sending them out to play WBA or a cup game but not a lot more than that. Also, I am quite worry about VDS because he tends to make a series of mistake sometime during a season and it hasn't happened yet.
Barca looks too bloody strong, and the advantage chelsea got is their rediculous ariel power. It is still going to be quite a close match, probably another 5-5 or something at the end of two leg. but still expect barca to go through.
A great final would be ars vs barca and ars winning it leaving Henry crying in the middle of the pitch himself. It would be instant classic!! although the chances are slim to say the least.
and... Cech is so fucking shit he should be sold. He has got this mental block with high balls and it is killing the team.
On April 17 2009 03:35 white_box921 wrote: I think arsenal has a great chance against MU, because one is really on a run and the other kind of lost somewhere in the wild. The surprising and amazing thing is that everytime I look at arsenal's teamsheet I think their back 4 is crap, and watching the games just keeps reminding me of the same fact that their defense sucks but somehow they don't concede a lot of goals. MU have got tired players all round and those stupid old bat (scholes/giggs/gary) can't bloody play the game at the highest level anymore. It is ok sending them out to play WBA or a cup game but not a lot more than that. Also, I am quite worry about VDS because he tends to make a series of mistake sometime during a season and it hasn't happened yet.
Barca looks too bloody strong, and the advantage chelsea got is their rediculous ariel power. It is still going to be quite a close match, probably another 5-5 or something at the end of two leg. but still expect barca to go through.
A great final would be ars vs barca and ars winning it leaving Henry crying in the middle of the pitch himself. It would be instant classic!! although the chances are slim to say the least.
and... Cech is so fucking shit he should be sold. He has got this mental block with high balls and it is killing the team.
Funny how getting your head kicked in can affect your confidence when going for high balls. Sadly, I don't think he'll ever be as great as he was.
Arsenal don't deserve to win a CL so I hope that doesn't happen. I reckon United vs Barca would be the only worthy final. I don't wanna see an all PL final again, it's just stupid. I've rambled about how lame the CL can be before, so I won't do it again.
this is way closer than I wrote not that long ago united slightly declining form curve, although their away game vs porto showed what made me consider them the strongest contenders - extreme discipline and awesome defending coupled with one or two great offensive moves granting them a 1-0 victory :p arsenal been really good lately, havent lost in the league since november, arshavin not being available for CL is a blow, but not sure how much it matters. they're underdogs, but they do have a fair chance at beating both united and winning the entire CL. chelsea isn't really recognizable, they score a lot and concede a lot, but they've also been winning consistently since hiddink. and finally barcelona had their slight decline in form a while ago, now they're the biggest favourites again. they can certainly score a lot against chelsea, question is how much they concede. it's hard to tell with barcelona though.. they have destroyed virtually every single team they've faced this entire season, but the fact is that the three remaining teams are all better than any team they've faced so far. they've won so convincingly earlier that they're favourites even now, but they're not gonna beat any of the remaining teams 4-0 or anything silly.
I think scholes and giggs still deserve to be in starting lineups, g.neville on the other hand should retire asap, I've never liked him and his brother. vds has never been a rock, it was vidic and rio who kept the clean sheets, now that rio is hurt and vidic is looking extremely shaky for some reason, United is in a lot of trouble. Evans sucks, I don't see any potential in him tbh. United really really should not have sold Pique.
Yes i've been thinking why did SAF sell Pique exactly ??He's now a first team starter for both Barca and Spain..Looks like a gem got slipped through.Even though he can be abit slow,he does add that few centimeters for defense.
On April 17 2009 10:53 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think scholes and giggs still deserve to be in starting lineups, g.neville on the other hand should retire asap, I've never liked him and his brother. vds has never been a rock, it was vidic and rio who kept the clean sheets, now that rio is hurt and vidic is looking extremely shaky for some reason, United is in a lot of trouble. Evans sucks, I don't see any potential in him tbh. United really really should not have sold Pique.
Also is Cech really not as good anymore?
imo he's level has dropped but not THAT much.
and agreed about Pique , he's a rock this season and only 21 , one of Ferguson's biggest mistake at least for me.
My bet: If Chelsea don't beat Barcelona, Barcelona will win the Champions League. ManU and Arsenal IMO can't beat Barcel from they way they are playing. Chelsea may just do it on their recent best
You need great tactics to beat Barça, and Hidding can do it, at least in one of the two games. I believe If both teams play offensive style, Barça will win...
if Chelsea beats Barca i'll be pissed, there's too much english domination and the CL would stop being exciting, i can't can't see any other team in the world right now that can challenge the English and break this cycle except for Barca, so im rooting for them 8]
Hell after what happened last season when Park was a revelation for United in the CL and being told at the last minute that he wasn't even on the bench was pretty hard to take.He even brought in his parents for the finals so that they could see him play...I really hope Park does play in finals(if United makes it through) his workrate is second to none !
if manutd come on top in the semis, i duno who i want them to be playing against in the final...both chelsea and barca are incredible teams let's go manu!!!
Let's see how well Bosingwa will be against Messi, even though predominantly Bosingwa's a right back. I personally don't think he'll do too well, but Terry will be able to step in, but how many times? I just like that it's almost guaranteed goals with two great teams with a lot of history
Chelsea get trashed.. Just a feeling about it... any takers?
Poll: Barca v Chelsea (Vote): Chelsea will get trashed bad!! (Vote): Small win for Barca (Vote): Goaless draw (Vote): Goals Draw (Vote): Small win for Chelsea (Vote): Barca get trashed... In Nou Camp?..
2-1 for Barca in the first leg. My reasoning is that English teams are a lot better than everyone else. Barca won't be able to run over Chelsea like they did to Bayern.
Messi is good yes but I recall Evra completely shutting him down last year.
they play enough matches against each other in the EPL/FA cup/League Cup anyway...with that said go barca!! i don't want another chelsea manutd final T_T that's right the gunners are going down!!
On April 29 2009 01:42 white_box921 wrote: lets do it Barca!!!! trash those fuckers and prevent an all english final
Although you're not wrong to do so, I'm amazed you're from U.K and you say that... LOL
actually if it is MU vs barca and chelsea vs arsenal on the other side then I would probably root for MU. Just a fact that I dislike chelsea as a football club right now, nothing special, just because they have some real dicks in the team and is the worst run football club (in financial terms).
Barcelona-Chelsea: Key Personal Battles Goal.com examines the key match-ups in the upcoming Champions League semi-final clash between the Blaugrana and the Blues... 28 Apr 2009 12:10:01 Photo GalleryZoom Champions League: Barcelona - Chelsea London, van Bronckhorst - Drogba (AFP) Related Links Teams Barcelona Chelsea Jose Bosingwa - Lionel Messi
This is the one that has the English press all a-flutter before the Blues' encounter at Camp Nou. The 26-year-old Portuguese is set to line up at right-back, and with Messi perhaps slated to play on the left, there could be a lop-sided battle in the works.
Some have questioned whether or not the former Porto man has what it takes to deal with the pace and footwork of Leo, and although Bosingwa is certainly tough in the tackle and possesses a great physique, his close-work does leave something to be desired.
What may occur is that Messi will switch flanks with Thierry Henry at times, making a man-marking job all the tougher but also giving Bosingwa a bit of a break.
Even more important, though, is the prospect of doubling-up. The centre-back who starts next to Bosingwa, be it John Terry or Alex, will be expected to narrow Messi's angles. This neutralises the Argentine to some extent, but that raises a problem of its own...
Michael Essien - Xavi
An intriguing personal battle may be between Essien and Xavi in midfield, and that's largely because Chelsea's centre-backs are set to be so heavily occupied that they could miss the Catalan's forward runs.
Xavi has been in and around the goals this season largely due to that most deadly of weapons: the cut-back. If one looks back to Barcelona's win over Sevilla two weeks ago, they will remember that the men doubling up on Thierry Henry completely missed the Spanish international's run towards the edge of the box. Unmarked, it was a case of picking his spot for Xavi to net.
This means that Essien, who will be playing a very much defensive role, is going to have his hands full. Xavi's movement off the ball is an underrated aspect of his play, and given the near-telepathic interplay between himself, Iniesta, Henry and Messi when Barcelona are on song, this is a source of real concern.
On the other hand, Essien can take heart from the fact that Xavi struggled against Valencia at the weekend, while the Ghanaian himself was rested against West Ham.
Essentially, if the centre-backs do not track midfield runners well enough, Essien is going to have his hands full. If they do keep Xavi on a leash, he can look forward to a sedate evening and use his attacking skills, too.
Didier Drogba - Gerard Pique
Former Manchester United stopper Gerard Pique will have a nodding acquaintance with Didier Drogba from his time in England, but it's the Ivorian who will be predicted to be top dog in this battle.
Playing a very much central role by himself, Drogba's threat will come as much in the air as anywhere else. (Contrast this to the other end of the pitch, where Samuel Eto'o will face extremely stiff competition to win an aerial battle against either of Terry or Alex). Pique thus faces a struggle to maintain his positioning and also win high balls.
The former Marseille man will be Chelsea's man goal threat, and even with Carles Puyol sweeping up, he could be a lot to handle.
35 mins Barca looks like bullying an under-18 side... The passes completed is 84% compared to 50+% for Chelsea. Oops what's happening? Toure flares up at teamate..
I don't know what to say. I think Hiddink doesn't have faith in his defense or something, there's really no need to have 10 men in the box at all times in the first half. Perhaps he's trying to wear the Barca attack down then start attacking in the second half because he knows his players are more fit. It's been a very boring game, I really hope Chelsea will start opening up in the second half. Valdes did very well vs Drogba.
I hope you're enjoying the best player of the world...
...
Andrés Iniesta
PD: Chelsea is managing to make Barça don't play their football and rush long passes and 1vs1. If they don't go back to mass-touch style it's going to be a 0-0
Poll: Barca v Chelsea (Vote): Chelsea will get trashed bad!! (Vote): Small win for Barca (Vote): Goaless draw (Vote): Goals Draw (Vote): Small win for Chelsea (Vote): Barca get trashed... In Nou Camp?..
Lol to think no one believed it's going to be a goaless draw before the game..
Chelsea play defensive is actually a very bad thing. No 1 it makes their home leg extremely difficult even if it's 0-0 and No 2, if Barca score their gameplan is gone. It's good for Barca however
On April 29 2009 05:14 DarkYoDA wrote: Chelsea play defensive is actually a very bad thing. No 1 it makes their home leg extremely difficult even if it's 0-0 and No 2, if Barca score their gameplan is gone. It's good for Barca however
I completely disagree with everything you said (half of it doesn't even make sense). A 0-0 draw is a great result for Chelsea in Barcelona. Barca has looked pretty much invinsible at home vs every other team they have played, so Chelsea going there and scrapping by with a 0-0 draw is golden.
Barca now has to go to Chelsea with the mindset that if they don't score they have to play overtime and possibly penalties away in England, that is assuming of course that Chelsea don't score at home either. I think that Chelsea is in a great position right now, and will probably advance to the finals assuming that don't fuck it up somehow.
On April 29 2009 05:14 DarkYoDA wrote: Chelsea play defensive is actually a very bad thing. No 1 it makes their home leg extremely difficult even if it's 0-0 and No 2, if Barca score their gameplan is gone. It's good for Barca however
I completely disagree with everything you said (half of it doesn't even make sense). A 0-0 draw is a great result for Chelsea in Barcelona. Barca has looked pretty much invinsible at home vs every other team they have played, so Chelsea going there and scrapping by with a 0-0 draw is golden.
Barca now has to go to Chelsea with the mindset that if they don't score they have to play overtime and possibly penalties away in England, that is assuming of course that Chelsea don't score at home either. I think that Chelsea is in a great position right now, and will probably advance to the finals assuming that don't fuck it up somehow.
Actually I can see what you are saying but my point is very simple. Assuming we don't get to penalties (which is more about nerves and some luck):
Barca only need a Goal draw in Stamford Bridge while Chelsea must win because of this goaless draw. If Chelsea actually went for a goal or 2 even if they drew this game they could still win the semi-final on a draw. But now, ANY kind of draw except for a 0-0 in stamford bridge is K.O for Chelsea. It's a straightforward analysis. Granted, they did well to get a 0-0 draw in Nou Camp and any clean sheet against Barca at Nou Camp is a good performance, but I'm talking about the entire picture. Don't think Barcelona can't score away. So I'm not taking the merits of this particular performance away but the outlook for them now.
It is to be expected and you can't really blame Chelsea for it. If Chelsea would have allowed Barca to play their game they would have surely lost. I agree it wasn't the most entertaining game to watch but you gotta say chelsea was effective and I'm sure they will be content with the 0-0.
On April 29 2009 06:29 FlamyDeath wrote: It is to be expected and you can't really blame Chelsea for it. If Chelsea would have allowed Barca to play their game they would have surely lost. I agree it wasn't the most entertaining game to watch but you gotta say chelsea was effective and I'm sure they will be content with the 0-0.
This. I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing by playing a largely defensve game. Any of us could look at how barca has performed at home this far and realize that Chelsea was forced to play this way. I have a feeling we will see a completely differnt Chelsea on their home turf.
Chelsea played the game exactly the way they wanted to and got a lot of help from the ref imo. It's matches like this one that make me dislike watching soccer
I know I've said it many times before; but this is why I hate the champions league. Football without an incentive to win is incredibly boring. Hiddink did totally the right move by defending heavily because now he's in a good position to win the tie, but I feel like I wasted 2 hours of my life.... imagine if you'd paid for a ticket.
On April 29 2009 06:38 ilj.psa wrote: I might say i never seen a side so defensive in my life, but w/e
Have you ever watching the Italian national team anywhere around 2006?
yes i follow it , its a defensive league and all but i dont remember watching a game THIS defensive. it pisses me off that this may be one of Barcelona's best team of all times and a team who just defends and looks for a cheap win may go through, w/e ill just stop with this rambling I guess this is tipical CL semifinal game
I dont get the surprise honestly, this is what CL has been like for several years now the liverpool vs chelsea 4-4, liverpool vs milan 3-3, 4-2 game between barca and chelsea are the exceptions, the rule is that defending wins because you don't have to win games.
barcelona was a lot better, and they could have gotten a penalty, as well as a red card for ballack, so you can definitely argue that they were unlucky too.. but still, when is the last time you saw barcelona play a game without greating a single major goalscoring opportunity for like 80 minutes?
either way though.. just like how the second half of football games tends to be the most entertaining because then one of the teams is forced to attack, in champions league, the second leg tends to be the most entertaining for the exact same reason. it's not like barcelona was all out attacking this game either, they were mostly just passing the ball and attempting to create something with few players - so they would remain in defensive stability. next week will be a lot more fun, had this round ended 1-0 for chelsea or 1-1 it would look a worse.
yea i agree when henry was brought down by bosingwa it probably should've been a penalty, besides that Barca can't really complain much about the refs. I thought Ivanovic played really well but Terry made some terrible mistakes.
Everytime I watch Ballack I hate him more. Seriously he is such a punk, he makes Dani Alves look like a saint. I hope that somehow Deco could take his centre mid spot back :\
On April 29 2009 07:33 uberMatt wrote: chelsea playing 10 men behind the ball, barca flopping enough to make drogba jealous.
football at its finest ladies and gentlemen
now united better destroy the gooners and make up for the travesty of a win on the weekend, such bullshit.
the old fa cup rules with one game home/away, one replay home/away, then the replays at a neutral stadium were the best cup rules imo
it's infeasible anymore with the schedules though
Bite your toungue mister. The GUNNERS are going to win this year's Champions League. You wait and see!!! I have tremendous faith and belief in them. Arsenal is the one team left that i think no one can really figure out how to play them. They've peaked at the right time while United is all out of wack. I'm starting to see some consistency with Arsenal these days too that just makes me all wet and tingly.
Some facts about today's game, they will create numerous chances like they always do, difference is, these days they manage to get goals along the way and they will today.
I believe only Barca can dominate and beat Arsenal cuz they both play attacking football and well Barca's attack is the best i've ever seen, also Arsenal's defence isn't good enuff to cope with Barca's Offense while Barca's Defense can do enough to win against Arsenal's Attack.
So with last nights 0-0 draw between chelsea and Barca, it seems Chelsea is in the drivers seat right now, and i would rather Arsenal face chelsea in final than Barca so..and yes i'm aware Chelsea beat Arsenal in the FA cup recently..but come on...it was another gay win by the wrong team, also the arsenal big guns didn't play. All in all, after yesterday's result, things are starting to look mighty good for my Gunners. Thats right, i'm so confident, i'm looking past United to Chelsea!!
Prediction for today's Arsenal-Man U game, 1-1, 2-1 or dare i dream 3-1 Gunners, with Gunners wrapping it up back at the emirates next week.
the blues head back to stamford bridge with the advantage, hope barca win tho. i predict a 1-1 draw with barca winning on aggregate
as for tonight's matchup...sheesh...arsenal? yeah they're a pretty good team but i don't think they have what it takes to beat united...i guess at worst united might be held to a scoreless draw, but i seriously doubt that's going to happen so keep on dreaming horsementality united 2-0
barcelona's such an awesome club lol. every other club plays the defending game because that's the most effective but barcelona's stubborn as fuck and remains true to their attacking philosophy
United really needs to get 1-2 more goals or else they might regret it in the second leg. The first one was kind of a fluke as two men were completely unmarked inside the 6 year box. Who is this Gibbs guy? Is he another one of those 15 year olds Wenger plucked from some championship/french club? I'm assuming Clichy is hurt. Arsenal's defense is really weak and shaky, United really needs to turn it up and pressure all out.
On April 30 2009 04:35 zulu_nation8 wrote: United really needs to get 1-2 more goals or else they might regret it in the second leg. The first one was kind of a fluke as two men were completely unmarked inside the 6 year box. Who is this Gibbs guy? Is he another one of those 15 year olds Wenger plucked from some championship/french club? I'm assuming Clichy is hurt. Arsenal's defense is really weak and shaky, United really needs to turn it up and pressure all out.
C. Ronaldo should have of had a goal off his header which was right after the first goal. I have a feeling we have more goals coming in the second half, we just need to finish our chances. Arsenal with the exception of Fabregas seems really rushed and are making some careless mistakes as they get closer to the Man U defense.
This tevez/berbatov thing is kind of reminiscent of kuyt/crouch. Both have good qualities, tevez works hard, plays fast and direct but lacks the first touch, finesse, and finishing of berbatov, I know ferguson wants to combine the two like Benitez did and Benitez found his complete striker in torres, hopefully tevez can find his goalscoring form again and stay at old trafford.
I don't like the score at all, United played well but really lacked the extra luck or creativity or whatever to finish moves off. Arsenal can certainly score one and more than one at home. Hopefully Ferdinand will be able to play then. O'Shea is always the luckiest fucker at the right place at the right time but a goal is a goal.
Wow, i'm used to whatch Serie A and this match was played on another level, first touch play all the time, ball always at the ground, players moving with perfect synchrony and everyone with beyond average stamina.......... And this is even without considering individual skills of the players on the pitch..... i think it's just a matter of mentality and ways of training
the quality of this game, especially united, was really high. rooney was great, ronaldo good (very close to scoring twice - and his longshot was absolutely great.)
and 1-0 is a very good result for united, even though they should have scored more, 1-0 is still a great home result before the second leg.. now united can play the second game knowing arsenal has to attack, and there is not a team on the planet better at playing defend and counter.
arsenal playing silvestre = lose, same with the 2nd leg, every time I watch him, he reminds me of World Cup 02 (? unsure) where he conceded 2 penalty in 2 game and also personally contributed to an opposition goal. gibbs is actually 19 (i think), he is actually english and not being bought from somewhere else!!!
On April 30 2009 06:05 Twisted wrote: Arsenal really needs van Persie in the home leg.
I completely agree. The only offensive player that seemed to do his part in my eyes was fabregas. Van Persie is a strong individual player that knows how to get pass defenders but can also help fabregas in building up the attack. Sadly I still have the feeling that unless Arsenal's defence has the game of the season they are not going to advance.
On April 30 2009 07:55 white_box921 wrote: arsenal playing silvestre = lose, same with the 2nd leg, every time I watch him, he reminds me of World Cup 02 (? unsure) where he conceded 2 penalty in 2 game and also personally contributed to an opposition goal. gibbs is actually 19 (i think), he is actually english and not being bought from somewhere else!!!
Silvestre put in quite a few saving tackles and was generally the most solid Arsenal defender the whole game.
The return leg should be tons more open, not to say this one was a cagey sort of 1-0 game.
united should have scored more, with all those chances...they played superbly but that's football for you, can't always score a ton of goals. im looking forward to the 2nd leg at emirates stadium! i expect a whole lot of counter attacking chances for manu
On April 30 2009 05:42 zulu_nation8 wrote: This tevez/berbatov thing is kind of reminiscent of kuyt/crouch. Both have good qualities, tevez works hard, plays fast and direct but lacks the first touch, finesse, and finishing of berbatov, I know ferguson wants to combine the two like Benitez did and Benitez found his complete striker in torres, hopefully tevez can find his goalscoring form again and stay at old trafford.
I don't like the score at all, United played well but really lacked the extra luck or creativity or whatever to finish moves off. Arsenal can certainly score one and more than one at home. Hopefully Ferdinand will be able to play then. O'Shea is always the luckiest fucker at the right place at the right time but a goal is a goal.
--------------------Berbatov ------Rooney----- Tevez ------------------- Ronaldo
meh dunno, it will be hard to put all those 4 in the same lineup, im sure if Ferguson finds the right formula it will have one of the best offense in the world, of course below just Barca 8]
Why most people cannot imagine the scenario where away goals win the tie. I see this as a vey high possibility especially for Chelsea Barca. And if ManU similarly lose by a 1 goal margin scoring themselves, again it's away goals. This away goal thing has been the decider so often in CL
united 2-1 barca 3-1 that calls for attacking vs counter attacking football that would make for a great final :D :D :D but let's not get ahead of ourselves, there are matches to be played still
On May 06 2009 02:43 Twisted wrote: Hey guys, where can I find a decent stream for the game tonight? Normally I'd watch it on the tele but I really need to work on schoolstuff tonight.
You're not going to get any work done. Just watch it on the tele.
TEAMS Arsenal v Man Utd Arsenal: Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Djourou, Gibbs, Walcott, Fabregas, Song Billong, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor. Subs: Fabianski, Eboue, Silvestre, Diaby, Denilson, Vela, Bendtner. Man Utd: Van der Sar, O'Shea, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Park, Ronaldo, Rooney. Subs: Kuszczak, Rafael Da Silva, Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Berbatov, Tevez.
Man.U go really defensive (as expected) whilst Arsenal are all out. At least Rooney is on the pitch I guess. Although I predicted 0-2 I hope Arsenal score first to open the game up.
poor arsenal lol first gibbs has the most unfortunate slipup ever and then ronaldo gets a freekick he shouldnt get and scores a goal almunia should definitely take care of :p
Arsenal looks very very lost now.. I think they lack a lot of confidence. They need to score a goal or 2 to make this match more exciting. It looks like the kind of game that can be a amazing comeback or a rampage
No way did Ronaldo not deserve that free-kick..he was blatantly fouled although his antics make me sick at time.Still no doubt he's United savior on many occasions and his free kick was totally unpredictable.Poor Arsenal though and Gibbs,looked like he wanted to cry after slipping
On May 06 2009 05:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: obviously a penalty but that red card is very harsh and rofl such a perfect penalty tho:p
No it wasn't a penalty. If you watch the replay Fletcher got the ball.
You want to talk about Kespa being rubbish... well this is just another reason the CL sucks. It's INCREDIBLY harsh on Darren because now he definitely misses the final because according to the rules there is no way to appeal. Even if the referee sees the replay and agrees the decision can't be overturned.
ya actually first replay i saw seemed like it was a clear foul second was more ambigious either way no way thats a red card. and its incredibly retarded that even if the referee wants the decision to be reverted it cant be
On May 06 2009 05:33 TanGeng wrote: What's the rule for yellows on missing the final? Is it possible to miss the final on two yellows?
Too bad Fletcher's gone for the final.
You can miss the final if you get 3 yellows. That's why Rooney and Evra have both been subbed off because they had picked up 2 yellow cards previously in the knock-out phase.
although uniteds first two goals came from pretty glaring defensive mistakes by arsenal, united looked like a million in these two games. magnificent defending and some brilliant moves by their attackers is exactly what you need in CL.
thats for putting Gibbs against man.u , did he was up against ronaldo? lol i can't believe Wenger and his trust on underaged boys, Eboue should had started. but good win for Man.U
Well, I think its not an OBVIOUS not foul, But the red in a 3-0 game and taking out Fletcher for the finals... Such a bitch move. That is one COLD HEARTED ref.
And Yeah yeah, Wenger trusts his youth, and I like Wenger -_-;; Gunners can only get stronger.
But sucks soo bad for ManU to lose Fletcher for the finals. lololol.
On May 06 2009 05:39 Liquid`Drone wrote: although uniteds first two goals came from pretty glaring defensive mistakes by arsenal, united looked like a million in these two games. magnificent defending and some brilliant moves by their attackers is exactly what you need in CL.
So true. After being beaten many times by defensive teams Ferguson seems to have adopted the strategy "If you can't beat them, join them".
On May 06 2009 05:45 ilj.psa wrote: thought it was 3 yellows to miss the next game ;o
Sorry yeah I misunderstood. If you get 2 yellows in one game then obviously you get a red and miss the next game. Otherwise it's 3 yellows in the knock-out phase.
I gotta make this quick. Arsenal fans, you cant blame your inept performance on the ref, but he had an absolute shocker! First half he was extremely generous towards us. We were getting the softest of freekicks, in fact I cant recall any decisions going against us.
Second half he continued where he left off, only to suddenly have an epiphany and realise that he's been too kind to us, so to avoid suspicions of favouring us he decides to send off one of the fairest players you'll ever see.
I really feel sorry for Fletcher as he was nothing short of outstanding tonight. The penalty was debateable but the sending off was ridiculous. Adebayor had a better shout at getting sent off for his studs on Carrick. It's a shame a game that should have been a cracker was ruined by a referee. No doubt he'll steal all the headlines for his performance rather than our fabulous display. I just hope whoever gets the green light for the final isn't as daft as this pathetic ref.
United were electric tonight and Ronaldo looks back to his absolute best, I'm fuming about Fletcher being sent off though and the fact that there's no appeal.
apparently Chelsea are going to play defensively IN Stanfor Bridge and aim for the penalties, oh well this is going to be tough for Barca if thats the case
On May 06 2009 06:14 Mista wrote: I gotta make this quick. Arsenal fans, you cant blame your inept performance on the ref, but he had an absolute shocker! First half he was extremely generous towards us. We were getting the softest of freekicks, in fact I cant recall any decisions going against us.
Second half he continued where he left off, only to suddenly have an epiphany and realise that he's been too kind to us, so to avoid suspicions of favouring us he decides to send off one of the fairest players you'll ever see.
I really feel sorry for Fletcher as he was nothing short of outstanding tonight. The penalty was debateable but the sending off was ridiculous. Adebayor had a better shout at getting sent off for his studs on Carrick. It's a shame a game that should have been a cracker was ruined by a referee. No doubt he'll steal all the headlines for his performance rather than our fabulous display. I just hope whoever gets the green light for the final isn't as daft as this pathetic ref.
Too bad this post doesn't make sense since few posts before indicate that you're a clear Arsenal fan
I played Chelsea-Barca (as Barca) in FIFA 09 a couple of minutes ago. Puyol will score the winning goal (0-1) with a header in minute 120 (if everything goes the same way as it did when I played). Go Barca!
The post-match analysis were talking about Arsenal's lack of experience. Sure they have all the talent & ability in the world, but compare it to the team a few years ago with henry, viera, bergkamp etc, we won soooo many more trophies.
Also apparently the red card was ok (Graham Poll says so, so take that as you will). Something about, even if you get a bit of the ball, you cannot go into a tackle when you know that you will bring the other guy down after. Ill give the exact quote later as that doesn't sound right.
But, well played United.. Ronaldo's goals were awesome (esp liked the counter attack goal).
I could have gone to the emirates to see that game too, good job i didnt ha
ya the norwegian head of referees also stated that the red card was okay. being on the ball first and taking down the other guy is only allowed if you actually kick the ball out of reach of the player you take down. here it was interpreted that fabregas would still be able to reach the ball if fletcher had made the same tackle on the ball but without touching him, and in that case it is indeed a red card.
On May 07 2009 01:13 Holgerius wrote: I played Chelsea-Barca (as Barca) in FIFA 09 a couple of minutes ago. Puyol will score the winning goal (0-1) with a header in minute 120 (if everything goes the same way as it did when I played). Go Barca!
On May 07 2009 01:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: ya the norwegian head of referees also stated that the red card was okay. being on the ball first and taking down the other guy is only allowed if you actually kick the ball out of reach of the player you take down. here it was interpreted that fabregas would still be able to reach the ball if fletcher had made the same tackle on the ball but without touching him, and in that case it is indeed a red card.
That explains the penalty - it's not quite the red card.
It was clearly a penalty. Just poking the ball a few feet to the right doesn't justify hooking down Fabregas who had better position on the ball with his leg. Yet, it is still a play on the ball. The ref must have missed the play on the ball to take out the red.
well rules also quite clearly state that if an attacker is robbed of a _clear_ goalscoring opportunity then whomever fouls him should be red carded..
this rule is a little controversial because a red card and a penalty can be ridiculously strict - especially if it happens in the first 20 minutes of a game, but it also needs to be there because otherwise it would always be beneficial to handball a goal about to cross the line, as a penalty is less certain of a goal than a certain goal. I think most referees interpret this as if the attacker is robbed of a goalscoring opportunity as big or bigger than a penalty, then they also give a red card.
Knocking down a player outside the penalty box with only the goalie to beat is worthy of a send off. Inside the penalty box, it might be more of an open goal situation or when the goalie is already beaten. The penalty is worth nearly a goal by itself. The logic for red carding handballs on the line is sound.
There is quite a bit of a judgment call. Some latitude should be given to the referee. This call is one of the harsher interpretations of the rulebook.
On May 07 2009 01:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: well rules also quite clearly state that if an attacker is robbed of a _clear_ goalscoring opportunity then whomever fouls him should be red carded..
this rule is a little controversial because a red card and a penalty can be ridiculously strict - especially if it happens in the first 20 minutes of a game, but it also needs to be there because otherwise it would always be beneficial to handball a goal about to cross the line, as a penalty is less certain of a goal than a certain goal. I think most referees interpret this as if the attacker is robbed of a goalscoring opportunity as big or bigger than a penalty, then they also give a red card.
If you look at the replay slowing and break up the action, Fletcher did touch the ball (by the slightest touch I might add) and this is the only reason why it's contentious. If Fletcher didn't touch the ball, I think it's very clear it's both a penalty and a red card.
My take is that the decision can be passed off as correct from the perspective that although there was a touch, if he didn't "clipped" Fabregas in the process, Fabregas could have still fight for a shot on goal. So it's debatable if Fletcher took did try to take Febregas down together with the ball or he ONLY wanted to touch the ball. It seems the former is more likely and hence somewhat denied Febregas a chance to take a shot (eventhough the ball went off slightly). He could have followed through and at least take a shot. ie had a goal-scoring opportunity. My 5 cents on this
yes the point is, that touching the ball only actually helps if you kick the ball sufficiently away from the opposing player that he would lose control of it if you didnt take him down.. if you kick the ball far away from him, and then take down the player, this is allowed. if you barely touch the ball, but dont really kick it away from him, and then take down the player, its a foul.
but like, this whole red card and penalty policy has been up for debate for quite some time. I wouldn't be surprised if something was done to make the rule clearer within the next 5-10 years. different referees also tend to practice different rulesets here, but apparently both head of the english referees and the norwegian referees thinks a red card + penalty was warranted in this case.
On May 07 2009 01:20 TopGear wrote: The post-match analysis were talking about Arsenal's lack of experience. Sure they have all the talent & ability in the world, but compare it to the team a few years ago with henry, viera, bergkamp etc, we won soooo many more trophies.
Also apparently the red card was ok (Graham Poll says so, so take that as you will). Something about, even if you get a bit of the ball, you cannot go into a tackle when you know that you will bring the other guy down after. Ill give the exact quote later as that doesn't sound right.
But, well played United.. Ronaldo's goals were awesome (esp liked the counter attack goal).
I could have gone to the emirates to see that game too, good job i didnt ha
Oh dear, someone reads the Mail! Graham Poll thinks it takes 3 yellows to make a red so I wouldn't trust him anyway.
I reckon all this "but he still took the player down" nonsense is just referees defending themselves after the matter. He clearly DIDN'T SEE the touch from Fletcher. The rules are ambiguous enough that they can make excuses but it can't be a sending off.
Watch this clip. Fabregas is getting no-where near that ball after Fletcher's touch. He goes down very easily as well (I don't blame him for that, everyone does it); which makes it look worse.
On May 07 2009 02:06 Liquid`Drone wrote: yes the point is, that touching the ball only actually helps if you kick the ball sufficiently away from the opposing player that he would lose control of it if you didnt take him down.. if you kick the ball far away from him, and then take down the player, this is allowed. if you barely touch the ball, but dont really kick it away from him, and then take down the player, its a foul.
but like, this whole red card and penalty policy has been up for debate for quite some time. I wouldn't be surprised if something was done to make the rule clearer within the next 5-10 years. different referees also tend to practice different rulesets here, but apparently both head of the english referees and the norwegian referees thinks a red card + penalty was warranted in this case.
woah woah woah, Graham Poll is NOT head of English referees, I hope that's not what you meant.
On May 07 2009 01:20 TopGear wrote: The post-match analysis were talking about Arsenal's lack of experience. Sure they have all the talent & ability in the world, but compare it to the team a few years ago with henry, viera, bergkamp etc, we won soooo many more trophies.
Also apparently the red card was ok (Graham Poll says so, so take that as you will). Something about, even if you get a bit of the ball, you cannot go into a tackle when you know that you will bring the other guy down after. Ill give the exact quote later as that doesn't sound right.
But, well played United.. Ronaldo's goals were awesome (esp liked the counter attack goal).
I could have gone to the emirates to see that game too, good job i didnt ha
Oh dear, someone reads the Mail! Graham Poll thinks it takes 3 yellows to make a red so I wouldn't trust him anyway.
I reckon all this "but he still took the player down" nonsense is just referees defending themselves after the matter. He clearly DIDN'T SEE the touch from Fletcher. The rules are ambiguous enough that they can make excuses but it can't be a sending off.
Watch this clip. Fabregas is getting no-where near that ball after Fletcher's touch. He goes down very easily as well (I don't blame him for that, everyone does it); which makes it look worse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMezahkIQk#t=6m08s
perfect view from that video clip. fabregas had zero chance of a shot after fletcher's excellent touch.
Chelsea's got Anelka and Drogba up front. Barca's got Toure at center back!! Keita and Busquet in the mid-field. It's very interest. Hopefully it's an open game.
On May 07 2009 03:08 TanGeng wrote: Have people seen the lineup yet.
Chelsea's got Anelka and Drogba up front. Barca's got Toure at center back!! Keita and Busquet in the mid-field. It's very interest. Hopefully it's an open game.
Anelka and Drogba played together at the weekend vs Fulham and they were really good. I guess Hiddink is going to try to play high tempo and outplay Barca. It's risky but with home advantage it could work. Barca, on the other hand, have stacked midfield in an attempt to be tougher and not get out muscled by the likes of Ballack and Essein. Henry may be great in attack, but I guess he reckons they need players who can both attack and defend if they want to win.
Watch this clip. Fabregas is getting no-where near that ball after Fletcher's touch. He goes down very easily as well (I don't blame him for that, everyone does it); which makes it look worse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMezahkIQk#t=6m08s perfect view from that video clip. fabregas had zero chance of a shot after fletcher's excellent touch.
I disagree, the ball is deviating but is not being whacked far off but rolling off. If Febregas could stay up he could have whacked it at a tight angle and it's just a few steps away. This clip don't show well but I think still possible to see that Fletcher's legs scissors clipped both Febregas legs in the process. I know it may be just part of the tackle but I don't buy the idea that he ONLY wanted to take the ball out. I think it's a case of "I'll take the ball out but if I don't, Febregas won't reach the ball either" kind of approach when you're about to concede a goal. Despite all these perspectives, he did scissors Febregas and Febregas was on a goal scoring opportunity, even if it meant at a tighter angle than before.
On May 07 2009 03:25 zulu_nation8 wrote: man I don't think Fabregas could've taken a shot
I know it looks like a difficult try. My point is, rules (and rightfully so) shouldn't assume the skill level of a player implicitly, it only matters if he had a goalscoring opportunity. It's really not that difficult because if Fabregas caught up with the ball without falling, he can take a shot at a tight angle within an instant turn (with only Van Der Sar in the way) and shoot (I'm sure we have seen many goals scored this way). That is an opportunity in it's own right. Whether he is likely to score or not base on believes in his skill level to do so isn't even relevant to the decision making process. If they eventually stand by their decision, I'm rather certain this would have been one of the propositions.
On May 07 2009 03:25 zulu_nation8 wrote: man I don't think Fabregas could've taken a shot
I know it looks like a difficult try. My point is, rules (and rightfully so) shouldn't assume the skill level of a player implicitly, it only matters if he had a goalscoring opportunity. It's really not that difficult because if Fabregas caught up with the ball without falling, he can take a shot at a tight angle within an instant turn (with only Van Der Sar in the way) and shoot (I'm sure we have seen many goals scored this way). That is an opportunity in it's own right. Whether he is likely to score or not base on believes in his skill level to do so isn't even relevant to the decision making process. If they eventually stand by their decision, I'm rather certain this would have been one of the propositions.
Good point, all Fabregas has to do to get the ball is bend the laws of physics by losing all momentum instantaneous and teleporting 5 yards to where the ball is. You're having a laugh. His expression in the clip says it all as he watches the ball sailing away from him before letting his legs go limp.
If you don't like the angle then watch the other angle where you see the ball go miles to the right of the box, then VDS has it at his feet half a second later.
I have the entire match recorded on ESPN and I've watched it many times, I still say it's hard but don't have to bend any laws of physics to do so. Try not to think of it in terms of a need to slowly turn his body, run to the ball and slowly turn back. I've seen many times players chasing the ball to the side and at least take a shot. As I said the ball was rolling away and not whacked away, it's very important to note this. And I also didn't say it's a sure goal, all I offer is the presence of an opportunity, which will suffice according to rule isn't it? Ah heck if it's that clear this wouldn't even be a controversy would it?
[Edit] BTW Chelsea scored!!!!!! Last years' repeat eh?
I'm surprised at the standard Chelsea is playing against Barca now... Especially after what they did to R.M few days ago. They look a robust team least to say!
On May 07 2009 04:03 DarkYoDA wrote: I'm surprised at the standard Chelsea is playing against Barca now... Especially after what they did to R.M few days ago. They look a robust team least to say!
It's easy to look good against sub-par opposition. Chelsea just let them have the ball in the midfield and don't do anything stupid (like rush out to them and open up space). It looks like Chelsea are slowing the game down by defending heavily. That's true, but Barca are refusing to actually play a ball that could lead to a goal and effectively time wasting. Cech has had very little to do so far.
On May 07 2009 04:11 Klive5ive wrote: It's easy to look good against sub-par opposition. Chelsea just let them have the ball in the midfield and don't do anything stupid (like rush out to them and open up space). It looks like Chelsea are slowing the game down by defending heavily. That's true, but Barca are refusing to actually play a ball that could lead to a goal and effectively time wasting. Cech has had very little to do so far.
True that. And Barca only needs to draw. Even a goal in the 90th min is going to kill the party if Chelsea only has this goal to show
[Edit] Just watched the replay for Essien's goal... GODLIKE!!
On May 07 2009 04:03 DarkYoDA wrote: I'm surprised at the standard Chelsea is playing against Barca now... Especially after what they did to R.M few days ago. They look a robust team least to say!
RM leaves a lot of room to play like most Spanish teams, Chelsea's 11 players on their own half trying to not leave even an inch of space. And RM's defence is subpar compared to Chelsea's.
Anyway, Chelsea's play is tactically very sound and Essien's goal was sweet but I think it's just horrible to watch as a football fan, ugh.
On May 07 2009 04:32 TanGeng wrote: It seems like Chelsea's content to just boot the ball up and down the pitch. It's quite ugly. I guess the first goal wins the game.
I hope Chelsea go on to lose. PLEASE not another all-English final. Barca-United would be awesome.
If Chelsea win, no English team will have been knocked out by a foreign side. The top four may as well have played a mini-tournament one Saturday and handed the CL trophy to the winner.
On May 07 2009 04:08 DarkYoDA wrote: LOL I thought that was a penalty for Malouda, it really looked near.
[Edit] It's a penalty for Drogba dude. It could have been 2 for Chelsea thus far
None of them was a penalty. First ne didnt even deserve a free kick, there was nothing at all there. Alves was in front of the ball, not moving And noone grants those penalties for what Drogba did, he wasnt even in control of the ball when he fell
I like how Chelsea is playing it. I'm enjoying the game so far. Two terrible decisions by the ref, the score should be 3-0 right now. If Barca fails to score it would prove even more how much better English teams are at defending than La Liga teams. Essien is pure class. Messi looks dangerous. I hope Barca turns it up a notch in the second half so we can truly see how good their attack is.
I think at least one of those should've been a penalty. Granted Drogba is a huge diver and would really have to get punched in the face in the 6 yard box to get a penalty but since the ref did give Malouda a freekick, it should've been a clear penalty and not a freekick.
Poor finish Drogba... Seriously he should've nailed it home
[Edit] If Chelsea gets knocked out it's Drogba's fault... LOL
[Edit] I like how Malouda and Essien are playing, they're good this game. That wasn't a penalty, the ref was right. Drogba was fantastic to turn that way towards goal though.
On May 07 2009 05:12 SkyTheUnknown wrote: Someone please kill this Referee. What the hell was that? This was NO foul, and a red card is even more ridiculous. Hope he gets lungcancer very soon.
Aww don't be harsh, he's already suffering from severe hallucinations and temporary blindness.
fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
I never complain about refs but Chelsea got robbed this game. This is one of the most terribly called games I've ever seen. The ref has no consistency, he calls some fouls that he doesn't call at another time. Pique should've given up a penalty. Abidal should've never been carded. I feel like Chelsea outplayed Barca, they did not deserve to lose.
Actually, you can understand why Chelsea is so shocked. The entire game they have many calls denied, so do Barca because this ref doesn't like to give penalties so he basically dismissed most penalty calls unless it's 150% obvious.
I said before a draw at Nou Camp, eventhough it warrants some merits, will not do. Chelsea did deserve to win this one. Away goals again
Drogba going crazy ha, I don't blame him because that ref was a complete clown, much better final on the cards now even though the better team is out, Uefa should clear the red cards for Fletcher and Abidal, that would be cool..
Yay! What a happy ending! Now they (this years edition of Barca) still have a shot at becoming the best team in the history of football! Go Barca! <3
Drogba really made an ass out of himself after the game. He should be punished for that; it was totally unacceptable (even though the referee did a horrible mistake).
On May 07 2009 05:40 Kaolla wrote: fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
Stop using that crack sir, you dont know what the FUCK are you talking about.
fuck barcalona and that fkn messi newb... seriously the most overrated player ever next to henry (by magic phil) god i hate barca.... hope they rape manu tho... i hate them even more... god the 2 shittiest kk teams of europe in the finals... bah bah -_-
On May 07 2009 05:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: I never complain about refs but Chelsea got robbed this game. This is one of the most terribly called games I've ever seen. The ref has no consistency, he calls some fouls that he doesn't call at another time. Pique should've given up a penalty. Abidal should've never been carded. I feel like Chelsea outplayed Barca, they did not deserve to lose.
On May 07 2009 05:40 Kaolla wrote: fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
Stop using that crack sir, you dont know what the FUCK are you talking about.
did you even watch the match idiot? barca had 0 chances just this shot, chelsea did have some 100% chances and were denied two 100% penalties (the freekick by drogba and the handball from pique) ... barca didnt deserve to go thru and if you claim otherwise you are an idiot -_- (well you already claimed so, so you are an idiot -_-)
On May 07 2009 05:40 Kaolla wrote: fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
Stop using that crack sir, you dont know what the FUCK are you talking about.
did you even watch the match idiot? barca had 0 chances just this shot, chelsea did have some 100% chances and were denied two 100% penalties (the freekick by drogba and the handball from pique) ... barca didnt deserve to go thru and if you claim otherwise you are an idiot -_- (well you already claimed so, so you are an idiot -_-)
theref sucked for BOTH TEAMS, do you think that was a red card? Abidal didn't even touch him and the guy fell, it was almost laughable
On May 07 2009 05:40 Kaolla wrote: fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
Stop using that crack sir, you dont know what the FUCK are you talking about.
did you even watch the match idiot? barca had 0 chances just this shot, chelsea did have some 100% chances and were denied two 100% penalties (the freekick by drogba and the handball from pique) ... barca didnt deserve to go thru and if you claim otherwise you are an idiot -_- (well you already claimed so, so you are an idiot -_-)
You're the one claiming Messi is overrated lol so i think its clear who the idiot is.
I dont think i need to even respond cuz ur a joke so stfu and go cry.
On May 07 2009 05:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: I never complain about refs but Chelsea got robbed this game. This is one of the most terribly called games I've ever seen. The ref has no consistency, he calls some fouls that he doesn't call at another time. Pique should've given up a penalty. Abidal should've never been carded. I feel like Chelsea outplayed Barca, they did not deserve to lose.
this ref will never get final stage games again, no question about it consider that he took 1 barcelona player out for no reason, doesnt mean he shouldn't issue a penalty but he lost control of the game while ago. There was 1 clear penalty with a hand ball, cant argue here. He kinda had to call that even though it wasn't intentional play. overall chelsea played way better, i dotn know why but barca looked exhausted and clueless at times they got dominated in the middle throughout the game which gave their attack no chances probably their game plan crumbled after that illogical goal in the beginning
On May 07 2009 05:47 Kaolla wrote: fuck barcalona and that fkn messi newb... seriously the most overrated player ever next to henry (by magic phil) god i hate barca.... hope they rape manu tho... i hate them even more... god the 2 shittiest kk teams of europe in the finals... bah bah -_-
This is a victory for football. Even if Chelsea deserved the win, who cares? The winner takes it all. Barcelona plays stellar football and now the final is worth watching. Messi overrated? In which cave have you spent the previous years? And Henry has played really well this season too after some problems with adjusting to the style of football in the primera division. I can't fking believe people can actually root for a team that crawls in its own goal and then waits for a counter (unless you live near Stanford Bridge ^^).
Chelsea deserved to play the final, however I was hoping to see Barcellona vs ManU so i think i'm lucky. This assuming that with Henry, Iniesta in his right position, Toure in his right position ad Puyol we will see another Barca than what we saw tonight, otherwise it will be some kind of rape by ManU
On May 07 2009 05:40 Kaolla wrote: fkn shit, that was a really undeserved win for barca... fuck that they played food football for a few matches this season... chelsea was the better team and the ref fucked up this game for chelsea -_- and fk chelsea for playing so uberdefensive with 11 vs 10 -_-
Stop using that crack sir, you dont know what the FUCK are you talking about.
did you even watch the match idiot? barca had 0 chances just this shot, chelsea did have some 100% chances and were denied two 100% penalties (the freekick by drogba and the handball from pique) ... barca didnt deserve to go thru and if you claim otherwise you are an idiot -_- (well you already claimed so, so you are an idiot -_-)
You're the one claiming Messi is overrated lol
I dont think i need to even respond cuz ur a joke so stfu and go cry.
Messi is overrated and you said that before i even posted the whole messi thing, what i said was that barca totally did not deserve to go through and chelsea should have won, so better respond to that mr smartass
Not an alt, believe it or not, its just that nothing else has compelled me to post before. Although the football threads here are pretty cool, so sorry for speaking in such a silly tone
On May 07 2009 05:47 Kaolla wrote: fuck barcalona and that fkn messi newb... seriously the most overrated player ever next to henry (by magic phil) god i hate barca.... hope they rape manu tho... i hate them even more... god the 2 shittiest kk teams of europe in the finals... bah bah -_-
This is a victory for football. Even if Chelsea deserved the win, who cares? The winner takes it all. Barcelona plays stellar football and now the final is worth watching. Messi overrated? In which cave have you spent the previous years? And Henry has played really well this season too. I can't fking believe people can actually root for a team that crawls in its own goal and then waits for a counter (unless you live near Stanford Bridge ^^).
i think supporters rarely support teams for playing the best football, otherwise all ppl in the world would be for like 5 teams max, that would kill football -_-
Another Chelsea Manure final would've been great, instead we get sideways wankers Barca..
3 important calls went wrong (abidal send-off, piqué handball, drogba situation probably as well) but of course all football players cheat so it's hard for a ref to make the right decision, so for fucks sake, start issuing severe penalties and bans postgame on cheating cunts. (diving, unsportsmanlike conduct, attacks and cheap shots with the goal of injuring or annoying/disrupting the players etc.)
Fifa these days just sit there on their reatard fat asses shrugging all critisism off by laying the guilt on the refs for having to sort out a clusterfuck of retarded spoiled cheating cunts.
Still, I like the idea of football.. it's just we so seldom see good football these days.
I don't understand how some people claim that Chelsea deserved to play the final, they play with a 1-9-1 formation the 2 legs and that doesn't mean it was BAD, thats how the CL works, but they didn't outplay Barca in any of the two legs , The first leg was completely BARCA the second leg was all CHELSEA each team played like they should at home and unfortunately for Chelsea Barca scored at the 93' minute, yea i'd be pissed too if i support Chelsea but thats how football is
On May 07 2009 05:52 foeffa wrote: I can't fking believe people can actually root for a team that crawls in its own goal and then waits for a counter (unless you live near Stanford Bridge ^^).
Yeah, it looked like Chelsea parked the bus again, and for a while dedicated their play to merely clearing the ball out their half. But Chelsea had plenty of chances since Barca was playing so forward. They just couldn't finish and ended up being sniped out the final by Iniesta.
On May 07 2009 05:47 Kaolla wrote: fuck barcalona and that fkn messi newb... seriously the most overrated player ever next to henry (by magic phil) god i hate barca.... hope they rape manu tho... i hate them even more... god the 2 shittiest kk teams of europe in the finals... bah bah -_-
This is a victory for football. Even if Chelsea deserved the win, who cares? The winner takes it all. Barcelona plays stellar football and now the final is worth watching. Messi overrated? In which cave have you spent the previous years? And Henry has played really well this season too. I can't fking believe people can actually root for a team that crawls in its own goal and then waits for a counter (unless you live near Stanford Bridge ^^).
Look I don't like Chelsea and I'm glad it's a Barca-Man.U final. But Chelsea have just proven that they are the better team. Barca didn't have a single decent chance until the goal. They did nothing for 90 minutes. It's NOT a victory for football.
Yet again the CL leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. I hate this competition SO MUCH but it just means so much that I can't stop watching. The final has basically been ruined now.
Well go ahead and feel aggrieved I'm just happy there's a @#$%ing great FINAL in store. Whoever win is good for me because I support Nottingham Forests who were down long ago, LOL. Just give me a good match when me and buddies all booze in front of TV on the final.. heheh.
On May 07 2009 06:00 crookstar wrote: Im surprised to see how many complain about Chelsea's play style given that this is a website dedicated to competitive gaming.
Football, when played professionally, is about winning, not how you win.
Barca got really, really lucky in this game and Chelsea fans have a right to feel aggrieved.
Yea the goal was lucky, but remember they played 10 vs 11 for the last ~25 minutes; but hey, it's stuff like this that keeps football interesting and entertaining.
On May 07 2009 06:00 crookstar wrote: Im surprised to see how many complain about Chelsea's play style given that this is a website dedicated to competitive gaming.
Football, when played professionally, is about winning, not how you win.
Barca got really, really lucky in this game and Chelsea fans have a right to feel aggrieved.
people claim Chelsea "Deserved" to be in the finals cause of Cech longballs to Anelka, Drogba and hope the ball slip past the defenders so they can score, surprisningly it worked to some extent but to use that tactics and hope to win be crowned the "best" football team in the world is a joke.
You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
I'm pretty sure, Barcelona had more shots, they got blocked or went out of bounds. Alves was especially horrible for Barcelona with errant shots. Chelsea had more chances, but sometimes their players didn't get a shot off.
On May 07 2009 06:05 Telemako wrote: You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
Of course I don't think football is about putting 10 players around the box. The English league certainly isn't about that, even the games I watch live every Saturday in league1 are about high tempo and playing the ball on the ground.
But this is a game, and a game has rules. Read my sig.
On May 07 2009 06:04 ilj.psa wrote: people claim Chelsea "Deserved" to be in the finals cause of Cech longballs to Anelka, Drogba and hope the ball slip past the defenders so they can score, surprisningly it worked to some extent but to use that tactics and hope to win be crowned the "best" football team in the world is a joke.
i will get flamed but im out
Nah you won't get flamed, both sides are right but Barca was destined to be in the Final. That's just life and that's just football
On May 07 2009 06:04 ilj.psa wrote: people claim Chelsea "Deserved" to be in the finals cause of Cech longballs to Anelka, Drogba and hope the ball slip past the defenders so they can score, surprisningly it worked to some extent but to use that tactics and hope to win be crowned the "best" football team in the world is a joke.
i will get flamed but im out
Nah you won't get flamed, both sides are right but Barca was destined to be in the Final. That's just life and that's just football
not right and you ever watched football? i rarely ever see the team with the 'best' football as you call it win a big tournament... rather ignorant post -_-
Barcelona played a lot better 180 min of semi - finals. They deserve the finals. What retarded the guys hidding the ball @ min 70 and later just for waste time...
On May 07 2009 06:05 Telemako wrote: You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
You're from Spain, if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes and the team with the best attack but not necessarily the best defence always wins then...
It is just perspectives. Saying that Barcelona deserved to beat Chelsea simply because they played more 'exciting' football is stupid imho.
Although if one takes into account the first leg in Barcelona, then overall Barca deserve to be in the final - just.
Just please dont turn football into a stupid argument where the more attractive solution wins every time. Any tactic, as long as it can win games, is valid, and should be treated with respect.
On May 07 2009 05:47 Kaolla wrote: fuck barcalona and that fkn messi newb... seriously the most overrated player ever next to henry (by magic phil) god i hate barca.... hope they rape manu tho... i hate them even more... god the 2 shittiest kk teams of europe in the finals... bah bah -_-
This is a victory for football. Even if Chelsea deserved the win, who cares? The winner takes it all. Barcelona plays stellar football and now the final is worth watching. Messi overrated? In which cave have you spent the previous years? And Henry has played really well this season too. I can't fking believe people can actually root for a team that crawls in its own goal and then waits for a counter (unless you live near Stanford Bridge ^^).
i think supporters rarely support teams for playing the best football, otherwise all ppl in the world would be for like 5 teams max, that would kill football -_-
Why would Barcelona have such a huge foreign fanbase if it weren't for their football flair? Because their fans are all secretly Catalunian refugees? Because Guardiola wears leather ties? Because of the architectural features of Nou Camp? If the club you're spurring on is not the one of your hometown, then that must surely be because they are a team with a great football philosophy and dito performance, why else would you call yourself a football fan if you don't support the game being played beautifully? "I support for FC Suckass because their play style is revolting!" Of course beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, so even though I can't understand what one would find attractive in Chelsea's style of football, it's still everyone's right to do so. I just won't get it. ^^ And secondly, since when is being fan of e.g. Barcelona mutually exclusive with cheering for an other club? It's not because I cheer for Barcelona that I don't cheer for any Belgian club (although they tend to suck balls except for a select few). Whenever international football is concerned or the primera division I root for Barça because most of the time they bring awesome football.
Addendum: that's also the reason I cheer for the Dutch national side in every WC/EC, because they have the potential to deliver beautiful football. And that's why I 'll always cheer for them, rather than the wood choppers in say, the Australian national team. Obviously I also cheer for my own national side but they just don't seem to be able to qualify anymore. :p
messi didnt have a good game either, alot of things went wrong for barca . either way if you ask me who is the better team id say barca definitely
I agree, barça had a strange alignment today and didn't play as good as usual although we should give credit to Chelsea for that. All in all, in my eyes Barça deserved winning the 180º and Chelsea the last 90º. I think it's good for football for Barça to go to finals. ManU - Barça sounds so exciting!
"if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
First leg Barcelona was denied clear penalty also. This game they were given a red card without a contact T_T... If some1 deserved red card it was Drogba + Anelka for their diving.
God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
heh. No its not beautiful, my point is that it doesnt matter. If i was running a team and i found a way to win every game but it turned out to be the most boring strategy ever, i'd still do it.
I just feel that such complaining does a disservice to the players and manager.
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
A sport that focuses entirely on defense is really really boring. The casual fans just won't go to watch it, and that signals a decline of the sport and declining salaries for the professionals.
But the game shouldn't be a joke either, so the ruling body should strike a balance between entertainment and playability. A more entertaining game is in the interest of the sport, but teams playing the sport have to use the best strategies to win. Usually, the players that a team assembles is more in the context of the league and its fans. Chelsea's style says more about the style of English football league as a whole.
It also hints at what fans of the premiership like to see. It is not excitement, but rather snatch a win or force a draw. This is pretty much how all of the bottom table teams play when they are matched against the big 4. They park the bus with the goal of just fishing out a point.
Barcelona had pretty much the same team last year and pretty much the same thing happened against united. Rather boring games. However the final Chelsea Manure was awesome.
Barca not doing anything but trying not to lose possession of the ball and United trying to score goals and win the match. Bad games just like this one, and it's not because of Chelsea backing home, they back home because Barca is simply weak against strong players and strong defense.
Barcelona is not really playing attacking football, they very seldom try to get players into scoring positions and in the box, they set up camp on the opponents half, but they don't do much trying to score so I don't see what's "attacking" about that. It's just another form of defensive play, trying to see if they get an opportunity somehow without risking losing possession.
Another person here in the thread was criticizing Alves wasting crosses. Not really. Because you have such a slim chance of scoring if you don't put a lot of power into the cross, otherwise it will simply sail into the arms of the keeper and you can't head it with power. What he's trying to do is a lot harder than simply getting the ball into the box. Take Lahm for instance, a rather overrated full back I must say, since he can't hit drive crosses worth shit, simply lame backspin flops right into the defense.
And finally - YES - to score many goals in modern football you HAVE to hit some long chancey balls or take chances and push more players into the box risking counterattack or take shots from bad angles hoping for rebounds etc etc.
Please don't use Barcelonas record against weaker teams when it comes to scoring goals, like the spanish league, spanish defense in general is plain awful, and barcelona and real are so far ahead of the others in the league resource wise it's not even funny.
Sadly, this makes Manure the best team in the world today, since they know the difference between attacking and passing the ball around, plus the have great defense and are dangerous outside the box as well as inside. They can score on corners, free kicks, counter-attacks, long shots, crosses and what have you.
Longish rant, but I felt it needed to be said looking at some of the posts in this thread.
Barcelona isn't bad, that's not what I'm saying, but they don't really play much attacking football (except against weak teams).
Attractive is subjective so I won't comment on that.
I'd rather say they play ineffective football, their defense isn't world class level compared to (pool, Manure, chelsea), they don't have enough physical strength in the squad imo, and strong headers. They'd probably benefit a lot from new central defenders and a good target player striker.
Barcelona had pretty much the same team last year and pretty much the same thing happened against united. Rather boring games. However the final Chelsea Manure was awesome.
Barca not doing anything but trying not to lose possession of the ball and United trying to score goals and win the match. Bad games just like this one, and it's not because of Chelsea backing home, they back home because Barca is simply weak against strong players and strong defense.
Barcelona is not really playing attacking football, they very seldom try to get players into scoring positions and in the box, they set up camp on the opponents half, but they don't do much trying to score so I don't see what's "attacking" about that. It's just another form of defensive play, trying to see if they get an opportunity somehow without risking losing possession.
Another person here in the thread was criticizing Alves wasting crosses. Not really. Because you have such a slim chance of scoring if you don't put a lot of power into the cross, otherwise it will simply sail into the arms of the keeper and you can't head it with power. What he's trying to do is a lot harder than simply getting the ball into the box. Take Lahm for instance, a rather overrated full back I must say, since he can't hit drive crosses worth shit, simply lame backspin flops right into the defense.
And finally - YES - to score many goals in modern football you HAVE to hit some long chancey balls or take chances and push more players into the box risking counterattack or take shots from bad angles hoping for rebounds etc etc.
Please don't use Barcelonas record against weaker teams when it comes to scoring goals, like the spanish league, spanish defense in general is plain awful, and barcelona and real are so far ahead of the others in the league resource wise it's not even funny.
Sadly, this makes Manure the best team in the world today, since they know the difference between attacking and passing the ball around, plus the have great defense and are dangerous outside the box as well as inside. They can score on corners, free kicks, counter-attacks, long shots, crosses and what have you.
Longish rant, but I felt it needed to be said looking at some of the posts in this thread.
Barcelona isn't bad, that's not what I'm saying, but they don't really play much attacking football (except against weak teams).
Attractive is subjective so I won't comment on that.
I'd rather say they play ineffective football, their defense isn't world class level compared to (pool, Manure, chelsea), they don't have enough physical strength in the squad imo, and strong headers. They'd probably benefit a lot from new central defenders and a good target player striker.
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
Sure, Chelsea can play like that vs Fulham, but could they do it vs a top team, on away ground, with one man less? Not a chance, only one team in the world can. I agree with you that Barcelona's way of playing isn't the smartest but I respect them because they keep trying to play after their vision no matter what.
I know Klive, my comment was very poorly worded. Shit, that whole passage should be deleted really.
The point I wanted to make is that it would be really unfortunate if all teams everywhere decided to park 10 behind the ball in an effort to win. I hope it doesn't get to the point where all leagues will be like Serie A.
Winning is the most important thing, I don't dispute this, but when a game is played in such a defensive nature (let's be honest, much easier to defend than create in football) it just blowwwwwwwwwwwwsssssssssss.
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
Sure, Chelsea can play like that vs Fulham, but could they do it vs a top team, on away ground, with one man less? Not a chance, only one team in the world can. I agree with you that Barcelona's way of playing isn't the smartest but I respect them because they keep trying to play after their vision no matter what.
Only one team in the world can? Can you please tell me what team is that, because it sure as hell isn't Barcelona.
On May 07 2009 06:05 Telemako wrote: You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
You're from Spain, if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes and the team with the best attack but not necessarily the best defence always wins then...
It is just perspectives. Saying that Barcelona deserved to beat Chelsea simply because they played more 'exciting' football is stupid imho.
Although if one takes into account the first leg in Barcelona, then overall Barca deserve to be in the final - just.
Just please dont turn football into a stupid argument where the more attractive solution wins every time. Any tactic, as long as it can win games, is valid, and should be treated with respect.
I'm not saying that Barcelona deserves it because of they played exciting, I say they deserve it because they did 70% possesion, even with 10 players. They were the only ones trying to win with the ball, and that's what I matter, love, and look for in a football match. Without their captain, without a starter striker as Henry, with 10 players against another 10 sitting on their box they continued believing on their style.
I'm fine with you loving deffensive football, I won't call you stupid. I'm fine also with italian catenaccio supporters, but I hate deffensive teams. I hate diving, I hate wasting time making the "nurses" come in to waste a couple of minutes, and so on. And when a football team defeats a defensive team in the 90' I get an orgasm =) Or in the PK shootout like Spain vs Italy this Euro. It's great. It's like "look, I killed you with your weapon =)"
And finally, I'm tired of watching the biggest club competition become a NON_CONCEDING championship. The team with less goals against wins. What a joke of a sport it would be if instead of counting victories we counted losses.
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
Sure, Chelsea can play like that vs Fulham, but could they do it vs a top team, on away ground, with one man less? Not a chance, only one team in the world can. I agree with you that Barcelona's way of playing isn't the smartest but I respect them because they keep trying to play after their vision no matter what.
Only one team in the world can? Can you please tell me what team is that, because it sure as hell isn't Barcelona.
They are clearly the best in the world at playing a ball possession game vs high competition. I already agreed that it is not always efficient but it's entertaining to me.
I thought Chelsea played more 'attractively'. Barcelona were just passing around hoping for opening instead of looking to create one. Chelsea has a solid defence so they weren't many, resulting in them passing it around till they got bored and had a wild crack, usually into the crowd.
Chelsea's counter attacks were the highlight for me.
Referee obiovusly really bad this game. Strange decisions. Chelsea should at least have on penalty. And the red card was a clear dive.
It's obvious Barcelona do have problems playing a physical team like Chelsea. But they still managed to attack well despite being 10 against 11. This is football philosophy. If Chelsea had the guts to play some attacking football, they could have scored 2-0/3-0 but instead they rely on their defense for the rest of the game.
Barcelona also at least TRIED, compared to what Chelsea did in Barcelona (played with 11 defeneders that is).
Yeah I don't care about "effectiveness" in football, i care about it being an art and being funny to watch. That's what Barcelona stands for. Total football. Over two games Barcelona was the better team, in this particular match Chelsea was better. Good to see a different final this year, because last years was only brilliant in the minds of tactics.
On May 07 2009 06:05 Telemako wrote: You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
You're from Spain, if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes and the team with the best attack but not necessarily the best defence always wins then...
It is just perspectives. Saying that Barcelona deserved to beat Chelsea simply because they played more 'exciting' football is stupid imho.
Although if one takes into account the first leg in Barcelona, then overall Barca deserve to be in the final - just.
Just please dont turn football into a stupid argument where the more attractive solution wins every time. Any tactic, as long as it can win games, is valid, and should be treated with respect.
I'm not saying that Barcelona deserves it because of they played exciting, I say they deserve it because they did 70% possesion, even with 10 players. They were the only ones trying to win with the ball, and that's what I matter, love, and look for in a football match. Without their captain, without a starter striker as Henry, with 10 players against another 10 sitting on their box they continued believing on their style.
I'm fine with you loving deffensive football, I won't call you stupid. I'm fine also with italian catenaccio supporters, but I hate deffensive teams. I hate diving, I hate wasting time making the "nurses" come in to waste a couple of minutes, and so on. And when a football team defeats a defensive team in the 90' I get an orgasm =) Or in the PK shootout like Spain vs Italy this Euro. It's great. It's like "look, I killed you with your weapon =)"
And finally, I'm tired of watching the biggest club competition become a NON_CONCEDING championship. The team with less goals against wins. What a joke of a sport it would be if instead of counting victories we counted losses.
I think all of this is fine; what I dont think is fine is the warped logic that many on the internet view football with. Don't get me wrong, I love watching Barcelona play, ive seen them live 5 times. But, I also love watching Chelsea play, for different reasons.
The posts I was reacting to appear to be trolls, and I walked into them. Sorry!
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
Sure, Chelsea can play like that vs Fulham, but could they do it vs a top team, on away ground, with one man less? Not a chance, only one team in the world can. I agree with you that Barcelona's way of playing isn't the smartest but I respect them because they keep trying to play after their vision no matter what.
Only one team in the world can? Can you please tell me what team is that, because it sure as hell isn't Barcelona.
You got to look at a team and explode its qualities and thats what Guardiola did, Barcelona plays mostly on ground , quick fast football because its players allow that to happen, you can't take a style of play of 1 team and impose it to other , Chelsea won't play fast-paced football and make control the possession of the ball making 40-50 straight passes to each other like it was second nature,you just can't because different players will bring you a different playstyle. Chelsea is more physical than technical , hence they have better players on headers,etc. And Barca is more technical than physical
Barcelona made one mistake. When you play against deffensive teams you have two main tactics. One is opening the field at the wings, what they tried, but it failed because Chelsea pitch is way smaller than Camp Nou. And the other one is always finishing with a shoot, even from outside the box. That grants you won't get a counter attack, and won't suffer too much. If they made a combo of both they should have won this game more confortably in my humble opinion.
On May 07 2009 06:05 Telemako wrote: You're from UK, if you really believe football is designed to put 10 players around the box and kick the ball hoping for a strong guy to run a lot you should switch to the american football.
At the first leg I even felt embarrased when Cech just served directly to Valdes like 15 times. Do you really want that to pass? 180 minutes with 10 men on the box and a lucky goal should pass? C'MON!!!!!
You're from Spain, if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes and the team with the best attack but not necessarily the best defence always wins then...
It is just perspectives. Saying that Barcelona deserved to beat Chelsea simply because they played more 'exciting' football is stupid imho.
Although if one takes into account the first leg in Barcelona, then overall Barca deserve to be in the final - just.
Just please dont turn football into a stupid argument where the more attractive solution wins every time. Any tactic, as long as it can win games, is valid, and should be treated with respect.
I hate diving, I hate wasting time making the "nurses" come in to waste a couple of minutes, and so on.
So you hate the Spanish league then?
On May 07 2009 06:57 Telemako wrote: And finally, I'm tired of watching the biggest club competition become a NON_CONCEDING championship. The team with less goals against wins. What a joke of a sport it would be if instead of counting victories we counted losses.
The CL has always been a non conceding championship. That's why it's so frustrating. It is a joke and I made that point about 25 pages ago. Man United deserves to have won many more than they have, but they were beaten by defensive teams like Milan twice, Bayern, Porto etc.. so they adapted and learned how to play in the CL.
Barca played the game badly tonight, it's as simple as that.
On May 07 2009 06:29 Spike wrote: "if you really believe football is designed to be a fucking cartoon where overpaid players twinkle their way around the pitch for 90 minutes"
Where can I sign up?
I don't understand those that argue in favor of such a defensive tactics.
Not entertaining, not beautiful. God, I know someone is going to tell me how sitting 10 behind the ball is beautiful blah blah blah.
I will say that Chelsea played better today. Sucks to be them but the better team doesn't always win. From an American perspective, this happens a lot in football/soccer, don't whine now.
Please ignore Crook, he's reacting to some ridiculous posts in this thread from people who should know better.
No-one is arguing in favour of defensive tactics.
To play football at the highest level you have to have more than one way of playing. You can't just pass the ball along the ground, never have a shot and never make a decent cross. Passing the ball quickly works great when you play against weaker opposition who can't keep up. All the top teams can do this INCLUDING CHELSEA. Their 3-1 win at Fulham only this weekend shows that. However when you play against other great sides you have to be more intelligent than that. You have to be able to create something out of nothing. Chelsea created a fantastic goal, and caused enough trouble to cause Barce to concede 2 clear penalties... except they weren't given.
Barcelona were simply not as good tonight and they didn't live up to the hype.
I can't believe I'm saying all this, I hate Chelsea! But this is not justice.
Sure, Chelsea can play like that vs Fulham, but could they do it vs a top team, on away ground, with one man less? Not a chance, only one team in the world can. I agree with you that Barcelona's way of playing isn't the smartest but I respect them because they keep trying to play after their vision no matter what.
Only one team in the world can? Can you please tell me what team is that, because it sure as hell isn't Barcelona.
They are clearly the best in the world at playing a ball possession game vs high competition. I already agreed that it is not always efficient but it's entertaining to me.
Clearly not since they failed to score in 180 minutes versus high competition. Any team could have scored that injury time winner, you see those in the premiership every week. "ball possession game" you don't know what you're talking about.
Man, what a night it has been xD I'm still full of adrenalin and can't sleep. Barca got a bit lucky, I admit. But that's a part of football, of any sport basically. Also when the referee makes a lot of mistakes, it's Barca who is usually hurt. Now, for the first time since I dont remember when, they got a bit lucky. Chelsea were playing 11 vs 10 the last 25 minutes and still aimed at just defending the 1-0 advantage and it simply eventually backfired. Lets not make "if only Essien had kicked the ball better" comments, 'ifing' sux. Lets not squeeze it into particular situations. Had Hiddink attacked more bravely and opted for finishing the opponent instead of defending->weak counterattacking, I'm sure Chelsea would have advanced. Now you know why attack is the best form of defense Hoping for a more entertaining final. Rome, here we come ^^ Vamonos Barça !
well chelsea were clearly robbed in this game, no question about it. they shouldve gotten at least two penalties but oh well barcelona should also have had one in the first and it wouldve created an entirely different second leg..
to comment more on the general state of the games though.. I understand people who prefer watching la liga over the premier league, there are more goals and more high class technical details. however, what I don't get is this notion that barcelona played "better" or more offensive football in these two games.. they hardly created anything. in the first game they went like 80 minutes without a goalscoring opportunity, this game they went 92.. that's not quality offensive play.. possession is worthless, and I don't get whats entertaining about watching teams pass the ball between midfield players. this is where barcelona excelled over these two games, they held possession a large majority of the time. but they were not attacking with a lot of players (until the last 15 minutes), and aside from iniestas awesome shot and some off target shots, they created nothing..
so well, as impressive as barcelona has been in the la liga this season, the impression I'm left with after these two games is that this says just as much about la liga as about barcelona. Their offense is not good against a truly good defense. liverpool and united are both far more capable of scoring against this chelsea defense.
I haven't seen many actual games of barcelona this season - only a lot of highlights. im not sure whether barcelona was sub-par in these games or if chelsea made them sub-par, but I just don't get where the notion that barcelonas way of playing is more offensive than chelseas way of playing.. it doesnt create any more chances, it's just that barcelonas way of defending is to keep the ball in their team.
finals are gonna be fun as hell tho. but based on these games, united are clear and obvious favourites - what they showed against arsenal was several levels above what either chelsea or barcelona showed in these two games. anything can happen though, there's quite a lot of luck involved in 90 minutes of football.
On May 07 2009 06:57 Telemako wrote: I hate diving, I hate wasting time making the "nurses" come in to waste a couple of minutes, and so on.
So you hate the Spanish league then?
Of course I do, well, I hate that part =P. I WAAY prefer Premier refereeing (sp?). I wish they start to ban diving players as they once said they will.
I think it's obvious and even the Barca supporters should agree that Chelsea had the most dangerous chances in that game by far. Yes Barca had more possession, but all of the possession was outside of the box and they never ever looked like scoring. I don't watch La Liga often and after these two ties between Barca/ManU and Barca/Chelsea I really wonder what kind of defenders the top Spanish sides must have to concede so many goals vs Barca. Barca's football was not beautiful, it was not fluid, it was not effective. Chelsea was effective, their counterattack was fast and fluid. There was not one area besides meaningless possession that Barca got the better of Chelsea at. This is not the kind of game English teams play every week. The 2002 Arsenal side played the style of football Barca wanted to play except better.
I mean, do you know how Chelsea played against United away this season? They defended, but United still scored 3 goals, because they were better. Barca was not the better side tonight, they got lucky.
But you neither can't say whether Manchester was that good or Arsenal just sucked in those games. The truth is, we don't know anything beside the fact that it's Barca and ManU who will play in the champions league final this year ^^
Barcelona had pretty much the same team last year and pretty much the same thing happened against united. Rather boring games. However the final Chelsea Manure was awesome.
Barca not doing anything but trying not to lose possession of the ball and United trying to score goals and win the match. Bad games just like this one, and it's not because of Chelsea backing home, they back home because Barca is simply weak against strong players and strong defense.
Barcelona is not really playing attacking football, they very seldom try to get players into scoring positions and in the box, they set up camp on the opponents half, but they don't do much trying to score so I don't see what's "attacking" about that. It's just another form of defensive play, trying to see if they get an opportunity somehow without risking losing possession.
Another person here in the thread was criticizing Alves wasting crosses. Not really. Because you have such a slim chance of scoring if you don't put a lot of power into the cross, otherwise it will simply sail into the arms of the keeper and you can't head it with power. What he's trying to do is a lot harder than simply getting the ball into the box. Take Lahm for instance, a rather overrated full back I must say, since he can't hit drive crosses worth shit, simply lame backspin flops right into the defense.
And finally - YES - to score many goals in modern football you HAVE to hit some long chancey balls or take chances and push more players into the box risking counterattack or take shots from bad angles hoping for rebounds etc etc.
Please don't use Barcelonas record against weaker teams when it comes to scoring goals, like the spanish league, spanish defense in general is plain awful, and barcelona and real are so far ahead of the others in the league resource wise it's not even funny.
Sadly, this makes Manure the best team in the world today, since they know the difference between attacking and passing the ball around, plus the have great defense and are dangerous outside the box as well as inside. They can score on corners, free kicks, counter-attacks, long shots, crosses and what have you.
Longish rant, but I felt it needed to be said looking at some of the posts in this thread.
Barcelona isn't bad, that's not what I'm saying, but they don't really play much attacking football (except against weak teams).
Attractive is subjective so I won't comment on that.
I'd rather say they play ineffective football, their defense isn't world class level compared to (pool, Manure, chelsea), they don't have enough physical strength in the squad imo, and strong headers. They'd probably benefit a lot from new central defenders and a good target player striker.
If Barcelona doesn't have an attacking football then I don't know who has. Seems to me like these are the only games of Barça you've watched this season. They always pressure up and always keep attacking even if winning 3-0, which is one of the main reasons they are about to break the scoring record at la liga.
You are so biased it's funny. You say they don't have world class defense (of course they didnt this game considering neither Puyol nor Marquez are playing) and don't have enough physical strength or strong headers, yet you don't even mention they have the awesome midfield players (xavi and iniesta) and also have Messi (best or second best player in the world), Eto'o and Henry all of those being one of the bests at their spot, as well as other really good players such as Alves and Yaya Toure.
And still, I wouldn't call either Barça or ManU, it's really hard to tell although they are surely on top, let's see how the final goes.
Its not fair that you tell us that Chelsea deserves the final, after 180 min of semi finals where the FC Barcelona was a lot better...
Also, yes, I agree, there were a lot of mistakes by the referee, but the mistakes were for both side, and in both matches. If the referee didnt showed the unfair red card to abidal, maybe the 2 penalties of ball-hand never would happened, since both situations could be solved by Abidal. Who knows?. So, Barcelona played with 1 player less thanks to a mistake of the referee. Plus that, the genius of Gus Hiddings, put a defender in the Drogba place... great. None is talking about him right now.
None is talking about the red card of Essien should get by the terrible kick to Iniesta by behind. Or Ballack played by free, after the kicks of the 1st match in Barcelona (And 2 players more easly).
None is talking about the kids hidding the ball when it comes out and barça had to re-enter the ball to the game. Wasting a lot of time!!!. Im pretty sure that Liverpool´s fans have a lot of complaints against the referee too... Or none saw that game?. Come on, its too easy to say that Chelsea deserves to win only by referee... and totally unfair. The semi finals is a game of 180 min and barça played better.
I agree that defend in both matches is a valid tactic. And they lost in their way. Barcelona deserves to be in the final.
I already said that there's no better football but a football I love and prefer. And I'm just glad because Barça defeated a team that plays with the style I hate in the 93'.
Barça got lucky of only conceding one goal, but Chelsea also got lucky scoring so soon and with such a lucky strike (Essien won't score like that again in years). So which one was the luckiest? I won't waste my time on that and prefer to talk about the offensive philosophy reward =)
Omg, seeing Chelsea drop out like that was really frustrating. First off all, what was Drogba doing? He had about three major chances to score the second goal and seal the deal, but he totally blew it. Also, the referee clearly made a lot of mistakes and should have decided for a penalty kick at least one time when Piqué deflected the ball with his hand.
Oh and to all of you who were whining about Chelsea's rigid defense: Soccer (as StarCraft btw) involves a lot of Strategy. Hence, adapting to the enemy's strategy is vital and that's what Chelsea did. Complaining about it is as stupid as complaining about a Terran building a Bunker vs a 4 Pool.
On May 07 2009 06:48 Luhh wrote: Barcelona had pretty much the same team last year and pretty much the same thing happened against united. Rather boring games. However the final Chelsea Manure was awesome.
Barca not doing anything but trying not to lose possession of the ball and United trying to score goals and win the match. Bad games just like this one, and it's not because of Chelsea backing home, they back home because Barca is simply weak against strong players and strong defense.
Barcelona is not really playing attacking football, they very seldom try to get players into scoring positions and in the box, they set up camp on the opponents half, but they don't do much trying to score so I don't see what's "attacking" about that. It's just another form of defensive play, trying to see if they get an opportunity somehow without risking losing possession.
Another person here in the thread was criticizing Alves wasting crosses. Not really. Because you have such a slim chance of scoring if you don't put a lot of power into the cross, otherwise it will simply sail into the arms of the keeper and you can't head it with power. What he's trying to do is a lot harder than simply getting the ball into the box. Take Lahm for instance, a rather overrated full back I must say, since he can't hit drive crosses worth shit, simply lame backspin flops right into the defense.
And finally - YES - to score many goals in modern football you HAVE to hit some long chancey balls or take chances and push more players into the box risking counterattack or take shots from bad angles hoping for rebounds etc etc.
Please don't use Barcelonas record against weaker teams when it comes to scoring goals, like the spanish league, spanish defense in general is plain awful, and barcelona and real are so far ahead of the others in the league resource wise it's not even funny.
Sadly, this makes Manure the best team in the world today, since they know the difference between attacking and passing the ball around, plus the have great defense and are dangerous outside the box as well as inside. They can score on corners, free kicks, counter-attacks, long shots, crosses and what have you.
Longish rant, but I felt it needed to be said looking at some of the posts in this thread.
Barcelona isn't bad, that's not what I'm saying, but they don't really play much attacking football (except against weak teams).
Attractive is subjective so I won't comment on that.
I'd rather say they play ineffective football, their defense isn't world class level compared to (pool, Manure, chelsea), they don't have enough physical strength in the squad imo, and strong headers. They'd probably benefit a lot from new central defenders and a good target player striker.
So much bullshit in this post. How the hell does Barca score 100 goals (United has scored 63 and Inter 60 in their respective leagues, as a comparison) in La Liga if they don't play attacking football?
You clearly underestimate the Spanish League; I watch it every weekend, and the quality of even the bottom teams is really high. Barca are 25 points ahead of the third team (Sevilla) in the standings, which makes it sound like Sevilla has been complete and utter shit, but that couldn't be more wrong. The third team last year (Barca) ended up with 67 points and Sevilla currently have 60, with 4 games left to play. That proves the fact that Barca are the ones who has been fantastic this season, and not the other teams being crappy. They trash really good teams as well, beating Real Madrid 6-2 on Bernabeu, Bayern München 4-0, Sevilla 4-0, Atletico Madrid 6-1, Lyon 5-2, Valencia 4-0 etc. Those are no pushovers, man.
Yes, this edition of Barca is truly a serious candidate to ''Best team ever''. Milan in the early 90's that went 52 games without losing is another hot candidate. If Barca win the league (which they will), the Cup (which they should) and CL (which they might), it will certainly put them up there.
And look at the players; the offensive trio consisting of Messi (best player in the world, 36 goals and 17 assists this season), Eto'o (32 goals) and Henry (26 goals). That's like 94 goals made by three players. Insane. Equally impressive is the midfield with Xavi (with 5 assist in El Classico, god knows how many in total), Iniesta (who outshines Messi every now and then, made 3 assist and a scored a goal in the game I went down to earlier this season) and Toure/Keita as the defensive anchor. Perfectly balanced. Dani Alves is the best full back in the world with his magical crosses (though not today), ridiculous lungs (he can run up and down his flank constantly in an unprecedented way) and great defensive/offensive skills. Puyol, Marques and Pique are all formidable centre backs. Abidal and Sylvinho do a good job on their flank. Victor Valdes in underrated as hell. He used to make some really retarded mistakes, but that is a thing of the past. The bench is great as well.
Chelsea did a fantastic job with the defence (I'm a fan of italian football, so I appreciate that type of shit :D) and the referee was a dick, which makes the victory a little bitter, but I think all in all Barca deserved to go through. Looking forward to the final!
On May 07 2009 07:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: well chelsea were clearly robbed in this game, no question about it. they shouldve gotten at least two penalties but oh well barcelona should also have had one in the first and it wouldve created an entirely different second leg..
to comment more on the general state of the games though.. I understand people who prefer watching la liga over the premier league, there are more goals and more high class technical details. however, what I don't get is this notion that barcelona played "better" or more offensive football in these two games.. they hardly created anything. in the first game they went like 80 minutes without a goalscoring opportunity, this game they went 92.. that's not quality offensive play.. possession is worthless, and I don't get whats entertaining about watching teams pass the ball between midfield players. this is where barcelona excelled over these two games, they held possession a large majority of the time. but they were not attacking with a lot of players (until the last 15 minutes), and aside from iniestas awesome shot and some off target shots, they created nothing..
so well, as impressive as barcelona has been in the la liga this season, the impression I'm left with after these two games is that this says just as much about la liga as about barcelona. Their offense is not good against a truly good defense. liverpool and united are both far more capable of scoring against this chelsea defense.
I haven't seen many actual games of barcelona this season - only a lot of highlights. im not sure whether barcelona was sub-par in these games or if chelsea made them sub-par, but I just don't get where the notion that barcelonas way of playing is more offensive than chelseas way of playing.. it doesnt create any more chances, it's just that barcelonas way of defending is to keep the ball in their team.
finals are gonna be fun as hell tho. but based on these games, united are clear and obvious favourites - what they showed against arsenal was several levels above what either chelsea or barcelona showed in these two games. anything can happen though, there's quite a lot of luck involved in 90 minutes of football.
yeah those two games have been far worse but have you forgotten the entire season before that, including champions league as well? united almost lost against porto in the quarters. barcelona defeated lyon 5-2 home. isnt that offensive football? they defeated a strong bayern münchen 4-0 home, isnt that offensive football? it's like, when they have the lead, they contintue to attack. that's the beauty. yeah both united and chelsea have a better defense than barcelona, but i don't think they come close to the total football that barcelona has shown this season.
even dynamo kiev or some random team could play with extremely defensive and put like 6 defenders and make it almost non-playable for ANY team in the world. they just need to put 1 tall striker at front and play long passes to him , i promise if the ball goes to him it will be dangerous. Im just glad playing football won today and Valdez despite criticism in big games was arguible the best player just below Iniesta. Like I read : Barcelona are a better football team than Chelsea. They proved that by limiting the Blues to containment and damage limitation. And Chelsea are not a third thier-team they are a team of multi-million euro footballers and international captains and coaches.
and just remember that all these "dangerous" plays could had been shut down if Barca had their real defenders not a last minute change of roles in players Also without Henry barca isn't the same, Iniesta plays a LOT better in the midfield and Busquets i consider not Barca main squad material. We'll see how they do against Man.U without Alvez and Abidal
lyon and bayern munchen are much worse than top english teams, uniteds games vs porto were during uniteds bad period this season and they played extremely bad compared to games vs arsenal.
I'll accept that barcelona, to a greater degree than united and chelsea (not necessarily than liverpool or arsenal though.), is a team that continues attacking after they take the lead. however, what they have been truly great at this season is demolishing (relatively) bad teams.
but in these two games, I do not accept that barcelona played more offensive than chelsea. they played more possessive, but they didn't create any more goalscoring opportunities, and only during the last 15-20 minutes of the game when they desperately needed a goal did they attack with a lot of players. in the first leg barcelona was passing the ball for long periods of time and then attempting to create chances using a couple players while maintaining perfect defensive stability, while chelsea was attempting to hinder barcelona's ability to find space between their players while trying to counter attack using a few players. neither is more offensive than the other, just that one focuses on controlling the ball a lot while the other doesn't care about possession.
I personally think that uniteds 3-0 goal vs arsenal yesterday was as beautiful as an attack as you can possibly get, and I was certainly more wowed by that than I was by any of barcelonas goals vs say, bayern munchen. not that barcelona isnt a worthy finalist, they certainly are. they're a magnificent team with several of the best and most entertaining players in the world, but they become overhyped because la liga in general has much slower pace than the EPL, and barcelona isnt able to attack the way they normally do against truly competent defense..
seriously ilj.psa.. barcelona has been demolishing team after team 4-0 or more this season.. you think any random top 40 team in europe could just defend to a draw if they play defensively? that's absolutely ridiculous, the reason why barcelona rapes all the other spanish teams is that they play at a higher speed than their opponents are able to keep up with. then they face chelsea, whom are used to playing at barcelonas pace and suddenly barcelona creates less than 5 decent goalscoring opportunities over 180 minutes..
certainly agree with a lot of your points drone. there is no doubt that chelsea and united have the best defence out there, and they certainly made barca worse these games.
but overall, barca could definitely have made a couple of goals the first leg, as well as chelsea could have made some more this. but here is what dislike about the football philosophy in most teams. they stop attack. hiddink takes out drogba and puts in another defender for the last 30 minutes. they have a home field, one more guy on the field, and play defense. oh well.
i guess we have diffrent preferences when it comes to football. im not disagreeing with the fact that the speed is higher in PL than La Liga. and that the top teams like chelsea united and liverpool have a lot better defence compared to any spanish team. after all we are talking about the top teams in the world.
but looking at both games, i can't honestly say that chelsea deserved to advance. but the fact that barcelona did score with 10 man against 11 in away field in a semi-final is an impressive feature.
On May 07 2009 06:48 Luhh wrote: Bad games just like this one, and it's not because of Chelsea backing home, they back home because Barca is simply weak against strong players and strong defense.
What does this even mean? If a team is simply weak against strong players it is one shitty team isn't it? Now I don't know what players are "strong", they've beaten teams with stronger individuals then Chelsea has. They just demolished Real, what are you even talking about. You can probably say that Chelsea has really deep and destructive midfield that will shut down any creativity, especially playing on their small home field( one guy stated that already and it was a really good point) Barcelona couldn't play as wide as they used to also that goal that Chelsea scored in the beginning completely changed the game plan. Suddenly Chelsea was able to sit back and play on counterattacks for 80 minutes. When you have such destructive midfield and athletic defense you really can make any team look helpless. They always had at least 6-8 people in the box, the only thing that Barca had to do were long shots which they couldn't even come up with. Saying that they bad vs good is absolutely meaningless.
On May 07 2009 06:48 Luhh wrote: Barcelona is not really playing attacking football, they very seldom try to get players into scoring positions and in the box, they set up camp on the opponents half, but they don't do much trying to score so I don't see what's "attacking" about that. It's just another form of defensive play, trying to see if they get an opportunity somehow without risking losing possession.
Do you make this up on your own? If you don't mind explain how you came up with this. If Barca isn't playing attacking football then who is?
On May 07 2009 06:48 Luhh wrote: And finally - YES - to score many goals in modern football you HAVE to hit some long chancey balls or take chances and push more players into the box risking counterattack or take shots from bad angles hoping for rebounds etc etc.
Indeed, Chelsea destroyed Barca in front of their box, no questions asked. I said before the game that it will be really hard for Barca just because Chelsea is probably the worst team for them to play against. But you have to consider that they defended with 8-10 players all the time, they simply left no space to fill up. If not that lucky goal they scored in the beginning, they probably wouldn't be feeling this safe.
On May 07 2009 06:48 Luhh wrote: Sadly, this makes Manure the best team in the world today, since they know the difference between attacking and passing the ball around, plus the have great defense and are dangerous outside the box as well as inside. They can score on corners, free kicks, counter-attacks, long shots, crosses and what have you.
size of camp nou 105 metres (115 yd) x 68 metres (74 yd) size of stamford bridge 113 x 73 yards (103 x 67 metres)
taken from wiki! blaming anything on stamford bridge being smaller than camp nou is absolutely ridiculous lol.. and besides, its not like barcelona was able to create much on camp nou either.
On May 07 2009 10:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: okayy erm
size of camp nou 105 metres (115 yd) x 68 metres (74 yd) size of stamford bridge 113 x 73 yards (103 x 67 metres)
taken from wiki! blaming anything on stamford bridge being smaller than camp nou is absolutely ridiculous lol.. and besides, its not like barcelona was able to create much on camp nou either.
even Alex Ferguson said that the bigger pitch helps barcelona and all specialists agree on that
its 1 meter wider.. 50 extra centimeters to each side of the goal.. I'd agree it could be substancial if stamford bridge was 60 meters wide or something, but theres practically no difference.
and like I stated : barcelona hardly created anything in the first leg either..
it was fun to see drogba and messi competing to see who could get flop the most times during the tie
i don't know why so many people here are upset about refereeing decisions, its a premiership team versus a spanish team, they could have bought the ref and there is no way that chelsea should have lost that
im glad to see two teams from different countries in the finals, it always produces better matches
On May 07 2009 12:21 uberMatt wrote: it was fun to see drogba and messi competing to see who could get flop the most times during the tie
i don't know why so many people here are upset about refereeing decisions, its a premiership team versus a spanish team, they could have bought the ref and there is no way that chelsea should have lost that
im glad to see two teams from different countries in the finals, it always produces better matches
na messi actually has decency he doesn't go down just to make a scene, i'd even say when someone kicks him he actually stands stil, unlike drogba , i think in just 180 mins he faked at least 10 tackles , ridiculous -_-
On May 07 2009 09:36 Liquid`Drone wrote: seriously ilj.psa.. barcelona has been demolishing team after team 4-0 or more this season.. you think any random top 40 team in europe could just defend to a draw if they play defensively? that's absolutely ridiculous, the reason why barcelona rapes all the other spanish teams is that they play at a higher speed than their opponents are able to keep up with. then they face chelsea, whom are used to playing at barcelonas pace and suddenly barcelona creates less than 5 decent goalscoring opportunities over 180 minutes..
understand your point but disagree, there are plenty of Spanish teams that play fast-paced non-stop football i can say Villareal,Valencia and Atl.Madrid may all be good examples of this.
On May 07 2009 12:21 uberMatt wrote: it was fun to see drogba and messi competing to see who could get flop the most times during the tie
i don't know why so many people here are upset about refereeing decisions, its a premiership team versus a spanish team, they could have bought the ref and there is no way that chelsea should have lost that
im glad to see two teams from different countries in the finals, it always produces better matches
na messi actually has decency he doesn't go down just to make a scene, i'd even say when someone kicks him he actually stands stil, unlike drogba , i think in just 180 mins he faked at least 10 tackles , ridiculous -_-
I don't understand why the Barcelona fans are arguing they are indeed "MORE" deserving to win this game than Chelsea using Barcelona's domestic and past performances as points of argument. If you wanna argue something, argue on this game. Every match is a new match. In Nou Camp Barca had the better chances, In Stamford Bridge Chelsea had the better chances. And it's stupid to say there isn't a single penalty call out of the 3. It's clear the ref didn't want to kill the game by awarding a penalty. This is a human thing to do.
Malouda's foul was in the penalty box. Someone said there was nothing but there was a clear palm push on Malouda's chest IN the penalty box or inside of the line least to say. Drogba was in front of the defender with his shirt pulled in a goalscoring opportunity. Another handball for Anelka's incident. Even piquet admitted he's lucky the ref overlooked that. The one that really doesn't count is Abidal's sent off and Ballack's crazy call for handball (which is really only arm's ball).
Moreover, is this how Barcelona USUALLY play? For fans who says they think this is how Barcelona always play don't tell me you watch Spanish football every week because that can only mean your brain is so screwed. I'm neither a fan of Barca, Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal. I support Nottingham Forest so I can tell you as a neutral, Chelsea had the better of chances in THIS game and Barcelona over the 2 legs didn't get to play the way they usually so fantastically do in La Liga. All these talk of defensive, offensive play is also *&#%ing bullshit. Chelsea didin't play hole up in defence THIS game and have attacked with very promising chances MANY times. Barcelona on the other hand didn't attack as MANY times as they usually do. So, wanna make your point, make it on this game. Don't say their pitch is this and this long and experts say blah blah (only for LiquidDrone to prove it wrong) or how 100 goals in La liga meant anything for yesterday's match, it only goes to show you are a blind supporter who lost the ability to call a spade a spade.
Wake up to it. Barca won. Chelsea played better today. Chelsea was robbed of some official calls. Barca took their rare chance this game well. Chelsea didn't play defensive. Barca didn't play the kind of attacking game to the extent of their domestic. End of story. And I'm talking about this game. Make another post and sing about how good Barca is domestically if you wish to sing high praises about them out of this game. Like that we don't need competitions, we just need reputations to decide who wins.
On May 07 2009 10:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: its 1 meter wider.. 50 extra centimeters to each side of the goal.. I'd agree it could be substancial if stamford bridge was 60 meters wide or something, but theres practically no difference.
and like I stated : barcelona hardly created anything in the first leg either..
it does make a difference, 2 extra meters on each side is huge. Think of extra 2 meters before the ball is out, that's a lot more running to do. And if your team likes to play wide it will fully utilize all 4 meters of difference
On May 07 2009 10:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: its 1 meter wider.. 50 extra centimeters to each side of the goal.. I'd agree it could be substancial if stamford bridge was 60 meters wide or something, but theres practically no difference.
and like I stated : barcelona hardly created anything in the first leg either..
it does make a difference, 2 extra meters is huge. Think of extra 2 meters before the ball is out, that's a lot more running to do. And if your team likes to play wide it will fully utilize all 4 meters of difference
And because Barcelona has a bigger pitch than anyone else, that makes them immune to not playing at a standard lower than usual for all other pitches? Man if it works that way I'm sure Man U and Chelsea can come up with larger pitches in terms of the kind of money they had because that makes a good point regardless of their performance in a particular game.
If you want to get into penalties, there was only 1, when ball found Piquets hand. There is a really slim chance that ref can overlook this after seeing it, but sometimes they won't award it if wasn't intentional. If you remember Portugal vs France a while ago ( euro 2000), ref gave a penalty for something similar( ball found Abel Xaviers hand, 100% not intentional play) and it caused a ton of arguing. It's up to referee but i DO agree it was a penalty here. First incident with Malouda - no penalty and no free kick, but since ref decided there was a foul, he gave a free kick and it was a really good call CONSIDERING he thought there was a foul, but you don't award penalties in these situations. Malouda was out of position to begin with and wasn't threatening anything. Very little contact here, they got most out of it.
oraaaayt manu barca final!!! that should make for a great final and i didn't know a footbal pitch could vary in size 0_0. i mean seriously i thought they had standard dimensions for that...
On May 07 2009 14:21 DarkYoDA wrote: And because Barcelona has a bigger pitch than anyone else, that makes them immune to not playing at a standard lower than usual for all other pitches? Man if it works that way I'm sure Man U and Chelsea can come up with larger pitches in terms of the kind of money they had because that makes a good point regardless of their performance in a particular game.
I'm not sure what you mean, what I'm saying is Barcelona likes to play wide and used to playing wide, most pitches in Spain are rather big and when you play daily on a relatively big field and you have a game vs a defensive team that always fills up the midfield and eat you AND THEY HAVE a small pitch to top it off? Sure it will add up. Pitch is not something to blame for a loss, we are just making points here and it was one of them. Barca was awful, Chelsea had advantage, ref made bad calls, pitch was small.
I was under the impression that Chelsea turtled early and often. They turtled more whenever Barca organized its attack well. At one point Chelsea dedicated itself to clearing the ball out of its half to no one in particular just to be safe.
Chelsea could have turtled even more than they did. That is true. Barca could have been far more aggressive than they were. That is also true. Compared against each other Barca played far more aggressively than Chelsea did. That is the style and tactics employed by the two clubs when they played the two games. In terms of quality of play and goal scoring chances, style doesn't matter.
What counts there was how disorganized and toothless the Barcelona attack was for most of the game. They moved the ball around, didn't find an opening, and made a lot of mistakes. The personnel package they had to deploy today does have something to do with it.
they were bad calls both ways. sure chelsea got the worse end of the stick but nothing extraordinary in football imo. disappointing to see hiddink acting all shocked and even insinuating conspiracy when he's had so many instances of lucky referring throughout his career. overall a fair game and a fair result. very fitting that chelsea got punished for their defensive tactics in the very last minute when they were sooo close to achieving what they set out to do from the very beginning of the match, score one and park the bus. and please don't try to take away from what barca has achieved. they beat chelsea, a top premier league side, and did it while playing their heart out to the very last minute. they didn't have their best game. they seemed all very rushed and unsettled like the commentators have noted, but it was verses hiddink's chelsea. hiddink's a genius and they've been playing lights out ever since he took rein. personally i don't see manu or any other team for that matter having an easier time against them. it was just a clash of titans. when pretty much every damn commentator is hailing barca as one of europe's very best teams, they're not just being stupid.
terrible officiating. 3 very clear penalties that werent awarded (one is understandable, maybe two, but three penalties not being awarded?), 1 red card where there wasn't any contact at all. its a shame to say this, but the referee ruined the game.
Heh, bad referiing in both games, but it was bad for both. Seems like ppl tend to forgot Ballacks handballs in early mins, surely the game would have been different if Barca went 0-1 early on... Or if in first leg ref would have awarded some yellow cards for Chelsea, like he should have = bans for this game, or if they awarded penalty for Barca...
"In accordance with UEFA stipulations, the playing area has been downsized to 105 metres x 68 metres. "
its understandable that you got it wrong as it used to be bigger and apparently some places still havent registered that it changed, not sure when it was changed, prolly just a couple years ago, but this is from fc barcelonas official webpage.
On May 07 2009 16:22 ItchReliever wrote: they were bad calls both ways. sure chelsea got the worse end of the stick but nothing extraordinary in football imo. disappointing to see hiddink acting all shocked and even insinuating conspiracy when he's had so many instances of lucky referring throughout his career. overall a fair game and a fair result. very fitting that chelsea got punished for their defensive tactics in the very last minute when they were sooo close to achieving what they set out to do from the very beginning of the match, score one and park the bus. and please don't try to take away from what barca has achieved. they beat chelsea, a top premier league side, and did it while playing their heart out to the very last minute. they didn't have their best game. they seemed all very rushed and unsettled like the commentators have noted, but it was verses hiddink's chelsea. hiddink's a genius and they've been playing lights out ever since he took rein. personally i don't see manu or any other team for that matter having an easier time against them. it was just a clash of titans. when pretty much every damn commentator is hailing barca as one of europe's very best teams, they're not just being stupid.
I also somewhat agree with kroko though. in the first game barcelona shouldve had 1 penalty and ballack prolly should have had a red card. that would have made this game entirely different..
however, the refereeing in this game was remarkably bad, I've almost never seen anything like it on this level.. he gave one red card wrongly and he should have given at least two penalties.. referees are normally hated on for even getting one decision of that magnitude wrong..
I like Barca but it should have been 2 penaties to Chelski Imo. To Barcas defend it shouldent have had that red card. Unfurtually the game sucked Chelski has a ability to make every game suck they played.
The ref made two bad calls, the red card, on the handball. But even the handball can be discussed. The way Drogba and Ballack behaved is not acceptable and should get a severe punishment. Its so funny how chelsea blames the ref for losing, when they could have easely gone through had drogba learned how to score, and not how to fall so easely. Chelsea should have had 2 red cards this game but no one is talking about that either
Oh, and in the first leg barca should have had a penalty + ballack a red card, but why wasent the tabloids all over the ref that game?
how were there two red cards for chelsea this game? what the hell? and how can the first handball be discussed? the second one can be discussed, the first one is about as obvious as handballs get..
Ballack for his behaviour towards the ref, and Essien when he only got a yellow (from behind, straight leg, towards the back of the knee, knobs first) And the handball CAN be discussed because he had the hand i natural position, and it was in the same position as before the ball was shot (he didnt move his arm before/after the ball was shot) but I do agree its a penalty. But do you really think the ref cost chelski the game, even after barca got a wrong red card?
I think the ref caused chelsea _this_ game. two penalties is worse than a red card. if you look at the two games however, no, the ref did not harm chelsea, because barcelona should have had a penalty in the first game and ballack should have had a red card then. so we end up with chelsea being supposed to get 2 penalties, getting 0, chelsea being supposed to get 1 red card, getting 0, barcelona being supposed to get 1 penalty, getting 0 and barcelona supposed to get 0 red cards and getting 1. this evens itself out quite nicely, so overall, chelsea cannot blame the referee.
but if you look solely on the second game, then chelsea were robbed. and, ballack being supposed to get a red card after 94 minutes obviously wouldnt have had any sort of impact on the game and is irrelevant.
"In accordance with UEFA stipulations, the playing area has been downsized to 105 metres x 68 metres. "
its understandable that you got it wrong as it used to be bigger and apparently some places still havent registered that it changed, not sure when it was changed, prolly just a couple years ago, but this is from fc barcelonas official webpage.
nice find, i had no idea they had to downsize i thought it was a given that camp nou is much bigger since it was brought up so many times
I can't believe how lucky Barcelona is. They really did not deserve to tie that game by any means. Poor Essien was a hero and then is the also the reason they lost at the same time. Either way Barcelona vs Manchester United will be an epic final.
On May 07 2009 20:16 Patrio wrote: The ref made two bad calls, the red card, on the handball. But even the handball can be discussed. The way Drogba and Ballack behaved is not acceptable and should get a severe punishment. Its so funny how chelsea blames the ref for losing, when they could have easely gone through had drogba learned how to score, and not how to fall so easely. Chelsea should have had 2 red cards this game but no one is talking about that either
Oh, and in the first leg barca should have had a penalty + ballack a red card, but why wasent the tabloids all over the ref that game?
yea the poor guy is receiving death threats now, he had to leave the country , i feel bad for the guy he's just a referee
On May 08 2009 03:06 monstar123 wrote: Barca deserved this. Camping style of Chelsea is punished by Barca. MU vs Barca is more epic ...
This is the kind of bandwagony stereotypical comment without thinking. Camping? How exactly do you camp and get 4 penalty calls throughout the game; 1 red card for being "fouled" on a 1 on 1 situation, 2 or 3 clear shots in the penalty box unless you were at your opponents attacking third to begin with? You really thought Barca attacked more this game?
This is not a point about the validity of these events (I know the red card was a bad call) but the clear fact Chelsea were not playing on their own third or even half at Stamford Bridge. Think before posting pls.
To make a very fair comment about the game and maybe a counterview, I feel after Abidal got sent off, Chelsea became rather complacent. They don't exactly look like a team that wanted to press and bash Barca but relaxed quite visibly (last 20 mins). It didn't help Guus Hiddink substituted Drogba which was somewhat indicative of the tacit believe the game was won. I mean what are they doing letting the 10 man Barca play and stroke around the ball last few minutes. They should have held Barca by the collar and kept whacking them till they're dead. Granted the ref may have made bad calls both ways but I thought if Chelsea could have played like they needed one more goal, they might have changed the night. Maybe this, and I really mean this alone, gave some justification for Barca, who seemed the hungrier of the 2 to go through based on yesterday's game.
But what the heck, I wanna see the best of Spain against the best of England and see who will reign as kings of Europe.
I hate all your opinions!!!!! I hope to god Ronaldo doesn't solo bury Barca like he has everyone else. I'd suicide. I believe in the midgets of Barcalona!!
On May 07 2009 20:16 Patrio wrote: The ref made two bad calls, the red card, on the handball. But even the handball can be discussed. The way Drogba and Ballack behaved is not acceptable and should get a severe punishment. Its so funny how chelsea blames the ref for losing, when they could have easely gone through had drogba learned how to score, and not how to fall so easely. Chelsea should have had 2 red cards this game but no one is talking about that either
Oh, and in the first leg barca should have had a penalty + ballack a red card, but why wasent the tabloids all over the ref that game?
yea the poor guy is receiving death threats now, he had to leave the country , i feel bad for the guy he's just a referee
not the first time this has happened, same thing a couple years ago with a swedish ref who later retired.
chelsea should be suspended from CL, just because they play shit football generally, has the worst finance record and is killing the refs.
yeah at this WC, Italy was really not lucky with the referees in 2002 (seems refs were bad against spain too, but thank god there is germany ) then again in 2006 against Italy - Australia.....lol that was a disgrace, to give such a penalty in fucking injury time I get angry again if I watch this:
no guys... what happened in 2002 was almost magic with a sea of home team supporters but there was no dirty corruption like bribery involved at all. don't throw that word around like it's nothing, it's basically calling the team a bunch of cheats and it's unacceptable without any proof. imagine if your favorite team goes on a miraculous run while aided by favorable calls and wins the championship. yes they got lucky but calling it just bribery undermines their achievement and all their hard work. and drone i dono which ref you are talking about but one of them just looks constipated to me :p
consider what happened the last time chelsea-barca played in the CL, I think it is only fair the ref help them this time. they can't always help only one team, isn't it?
On May 09 2009 16:31 ItchReliever wrote: no guys... what happened in 2002 was almost magic with a sea of home team supporters but there was no dirty corruption like bribery involved at all. don't throw that word around like it's nothing, it's basically calling the team a bunch of cheats and it's unacceptable without any proof. imagine if your favorite team goes on a miraculous run while aided by favorable calls and wins the championship. yes they got lucky but calling it just bribery undermines their achievement and all their hard work. and drone i dono which ref you are talking about but one of them just looks constipated to me :p
I don't necessarily think the refs where bribed, but they (especially Moreno) were so retarded that IMO it's not unlikely that they were. How many correct goals did Italy get disallowed during the course of the tournament? I think 4 during the group stage, and then the Golden Goal in the game against Korea. The game between Spain and Korea had a crapload of retarded decisions as well. And read this (from wikipedia) about Moreno, the guy who spoiled Italy vs Korea:
Moreno ''was suspended for twenty matches and investigated by Ecuadorian soccer authorities and FIFA after a match he officiated between Liga Deportiva Universitaria de Quito and Barcelona Sporting Club from Guayaquil. With Liga de Quito trailing 3–2 at the end of the match, Moreno signalled six minutes of injury time, then allowed play to continue for thirteen minutes, during which Liga de Quito scored to tie the game in the 99th minute, then won the game in the 101st minute. Moreno was also accused of falsifying the minutes in which Liga de Quito scored their tying and winning goals in his official match report.
In May 2003, in his third game back from his suspension, Moreno was again suspended, for one match, after he sent off three players from visiting Deportivo Quito in a 1–1 draw at Deportivo Cuenca. He retired the following month, blaming low performance marks for his retirement.''
On May 09 2009 16:31 ItchReliever wrote: no guys... what happened in 2002 was almost magic with a sea of home team supporters but there was no dirty corruption like bribery involved at all. don't throw that word around like it's nothing, it's basically calling the team a bunch of cheats and it's unacceptable without any proof. imagine if your favorite team goes on a miraculous run while aided by favorable calls and wins the championship. yes they got lucky but calling it just bribery undermines their achievement and all their hard work. and drone i dono which ref you are talking about but one of them just looks constipated to me :p
I don't necessarily think the refs where bribed, but they (especially Moreno) were so retarded that IMO it's not unlikely that they were. + Show Spoiler +
How many correct goals did Italy get disallowed during the course of the tournament? I think 4 during the group stage, and then the Golden Goal in the game against Korea. The game between Spain and Korea had a crapload of retarded decisions as well. And read this (from wikipedia) about Moreno, the guy who spoiled Italy vs Korea:
Moreno ''was suspended for twenty matches and investigated by Ecuadorian soccer authorities and FIFA after a match he officiated between Liga Deportiva Universitaria de Quito and Barcelona Sporting Club from Guayaquil. With Liga de Quito trailing 3–2 at the end of the match, Moreno signalled six minutes of injury time, then allowed play to continue for thirteen minutes, during which Liga de Quito scored to tie the game in the 99th minute, then won the game in the 101st minute. Moreno was also accused of falsifying the minutes in which Liga de Quito scored their tying and winning goals in his official match report.
In May 2003, in his third game back from his suspension, Moreno was again suspended, for one match, after he sent off three players from visiting Deportivo Quito in a 1–1 draw at Deportivo Cuenca. He retired the following month, blaming low performance marks for his retirement.''
EPT
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