The CGS Shuts its Doors :(

On November 19 2008 05:19 Racenilatr wrote:
same. Also that article is sorta still confusing....its a game or a tourney business thingy like gom?

On November 19 2008 05:24 Jibba wrote:

It was a pro gaming circuit in the US, with different franchises who had "matches" against eachother by playing a bunch of different games. It was also televised with big payouts and had several international teams as well.

It truly is sad that it's closing, but the management made a lot of mistakes that caused the competitive gamer base not to follow it, especially with game selection and how points were handled.

EDIT: The plus side is that we may see a resurgence of 1.6.

On November 19 2008 06:26 Senx wrote:
This is a great day for e-sport, beacuse it proves to people that no matter how much money you put into something you can't succeed without actually having the knowledge and skills to do it.

CGS did nothing but hurt the e-sport scene as it pulled major teams and persons from the e-sport scene just beacuse of money, they forgot to think through the idea in practice, beacuse the way they did it it was pretty much doomed to fail, everyone realized this except the CGS.

On November 19 2008 06:29 Jibba wrote:


Except in terms of media exposure, it is more proof of "e-sports" failing outside of Korea, even when aided by big sponsors. That is very, very bad.

1 Havanna:
It's not only USA teams that we want to see back. I'm pretty sure most of the Brits want to see the old Dignitas team back in action.

Can you guys imagine? New dig vs old dig. Would be quite awesome to watch.

2 Grobic:
pretty sure no one gives a F U C K about dignitas

On November 19 2008 06:43 Jibba wrote:
Money and sponsors are necessary for e-sports to succeed, but they're not sufficient. CGS dying will make it more difficult to get sponsorship in the future. Explaining to companies that "those CGS guys didn't know what they're doing" isn't going to work, because the companies don't really know much either and CGS has better infrastructure than anyone else.

I can understand that you're bitter about the poor game choices and the fact that it ignored Europe, but you shouldn't be glad because it hurts the chances for future e-sports as well. It would be like cheering for the cancellation of all future WC3 events, because WC3 sucks. That might be true, but WC3 tournaments still benefit the e-sports scene.

EDIT: Jax is a tool.

On November 19 2008 06:43 Jibba wrote:
Money and sponsors are necessary for e-sports to succeed, but they're not sufficient. CGS dying will make it more difficult to get sponsorship in the future. Explaining to companies that "those CGS guys didn't know what they're doing" isn't going to work, because the companies don't really know much either and CGS has better infrastructure than anyone else.

I can understand that you're bitter about the poor game choices and the fact that it ignored Europe, but you shouldn't be glad because it hurts the chances for future e-sports as well. It would be like cheering for the cancellation of all future WC3 events, because WC3 sucks. That might be true, but WC3 tournaments still benefit the e-sports scene.

EDIT: Jax is a tool.

On November 19 2008 07:13 fusionsdf wrote:
hmm

if you pick games the sponsors want, you get money, but the competive gaming community isnt going to be invested in DoA.

If you pick thriving community games, you get a viewership, but no sponsors to invest

On November 19 2008 07:23 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I don't get why you'd have to go for tech related sponsors. Most competitive gamers are male.
Males shave.
Gillette makes razors. (and I guess they have a female line of products as wel ;p)

Pepsi sponsors a ton of Chinese progamers (Pepsi.Sky anyone?) and sponsored a KPGA Tour way back in the day - perfect audience and no need for sponsor-tailored games.

I really don't get it ;o

On November 19 2008 07:23 Senx wrote:


Usually the sponsors want the games that gives them the most exposure for their products.. = thriving community games.

On November 19 2008 08:28 pachi wrote:


Letting Sponsors run tournaments usually = Bad tournament because Sponsors don't know how to run tournaments / Confused community because Sponsors don't care about anything but their money / Abused community because Sponsors really don't care about anything but their money.

On November 19 2008 06:29 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Seriously, CGS sucked.

Will the franchises still continue as normal or will they all disband? I hope to see 3D and coL back into 1.6 full-time (although 3D suck now since they have Source-based players).

On November 19 2008 05:04 Kennigit wrote:
I wasn't a big fan of some of their game selections but this is a sad day for western esports - CGS shuts down.

http://www.thecgs.com/

DJWheat was one of the main broadcasters/producers so my thoughts are with you today hombre.

On November 19 2008 09:29 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
CGS is lame, who cares.

On November 19 2008 10:42 Racenilatr wrote:
at least it wont leave as many people jobless as if General Motors doesnt get a bailout O_O

On November 19 2008 17:16 Mazer wrote:
I never really thought they had the right formula and it seemed like the whole idea wasn't catching on at all unfortunately. I do wish the CGS could have lasted though. Overall, it was a step in the right direction for e-sports even if it was pretty flawed.

On November 19 2008 17:58 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Bill307 WCG doesn't "pick" games they get paid to offer the games they do. Yes they can turn down games etc.. but I am guessing the scenario is that financially it would be ludicrous for them to turn away a microsoft sponsor over a "better" fighting game (that may or may not have even made a bid on WCG).

On November 19 2008 18:45 Bill307 wrote:
Anyway, this also gets me thinking: let's assume CGS "picked" DoA4 for similar reasons as WCG. Then it was definitely a step in the wrong direction for e-sports. We want to show potential sponsors that large numbers of people will take interest in watching sponsored competitions. Having shallow, unimpressive games like DoA4 in the line-up will show them the exact opposite. Not to mention the problem of allowing the game companies to control which games will be played competitively.

On November 19 2008 18:06 Bill307 wrote:
I've heard that some people / organizations would like to make Chess an Olympic sport. Now, let's not debate whether or not it should be one. Instead, consider this: if an organization managed to make Sorry! an Olympic sport for one year, then the game was kicked out afterwards, would you say that the organization "took a step in the right direction" for people who want to see Chess in the Olympics?

On November 20 2008 18:24 WorldComunist8 wrote:
1) Game choice did not ruin this league. We, the fans, did. We decided that because our favorite game was not involved, we wouldn't give a damn. SC wasn't in it, so half of us didn't watch. Understandable. Source was chosen over 1.6. Get over it and watch it and support this cause. For the other 3 games, they were trying to make it multi-dimensional. Whether they were the right or wrong choices didn't matter. They were learning. There were plans on changing the games anyways before next season. You can't start a revolution with one group. They needed the support of everyone to get going. Not just the fans of the chosen games.

On November 20 2008 22:58 MayorITC wrote:
Pretty sure FPS are not banned in Korea considering I've seen CS and Sudden Attack matches on TV for the past six years.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Yes there are tons of Koreans who play Starcraft, but there's tons of Koreans who play other games.

E-sports thrives in Korea not because we narrowed our focus to a single game but rather because of the sheer number of gamers in Korea.

On November 20 2008 19:57 Alizee- wrote:
I actually found the franchises to be an excellent idea. Why? Well simply put, because these are games and prior to things like CGS there wasn't any big money other than tournament wins. So naturally if you're making money from tournaments you'll try to get on the best team and inbetween tournaments it doesn't matter. As a result? Lots of team reforms, lots of roster changes, etc. It introduced much needed stability in, lets face it, a rather unprofessional community.

Some players present themselves very well and are worthy of respect, others act like dumb kids who play games all day and when you present anything as a sport or competition especially on tv, you need professionalism. Also remember if CGS were to be huge, they would inevitably have to get viewers from elsewhere...there are usually around 150k players at anytime for source and 1.6 combined. So let's say that there's roughly 1 million active players, even if all the fairly active players(casual, competitive, and in between)all watched counter-strike that's only 1 million...world wide. Needless to say the inevitable must occur and that is to draw viewers from other sources and that's where you have to watch and not just bitch because "your" game didn't make it.

As much as people wanna say "I don't give a damn about those games" the truth of the matter is that if companies didn't give a damn, you wouldn't get more than a penny for playing games, so why some gamers get this holier than thou thing going on where they feel they DESERVE money because they play X game is a crock of shit.

I'm not admitting there weren't flaws in CGS, really I can find flaws in nearly anything, but you take the good with the bad and weigh it out in the end to see if it works. I hope they come back or ESPN/MLG get things rollin, otherwise it'll be a shaky situation. I know many on this site would love for Korea to branch out, but I think the reality is they just don't have the size that some other areas of the world have. American/European companies are comparatively massive to the Korean channels and so if there's gonna be the whole global e-sports thing, I wouldn't put watermelons into their basket.

On November 20 2008 19:41 WorldComunist8 wrote:
The franchise system was interesting. I liked certain aspects and didn't like others. I was not bothered by the fact that Source was included, and I wasn't about to say "Hey, you guys suck, you're doing it all wrong". The problem was, it wasn't truly a "franchise". They still had to go out to LA no matter who was playing. Location based would've been better, IMO. Plus some depth and a longer season. Note, I still support what they were trying to do whole-heartedly. As I said, they tried to do what needs to be done: unite the sports and succeed as an industry, not as a game. I still hold to the fact that outside of Korea, eSports won't succeed any other way. It's too small of a market and inter-dependent on everyone rather than just one group.

On November 20 2008 22:58 MayorITC wrote:
Pretty sure FPS are not banned in Korea considering I've seen CS and Sudden Attack matches on TV for the past six years.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Yes there are tons of Koreans who play Starcraft, but there's tons of Koreans who play other games.

E-sports thrives in Korea not because we narrowed our focus to a single game but rather because of the sheer number of gamers in Korea.

On November 20 2008 23:01 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:


People in CGS keep claiming others know nothing about what is watchable - and keep bitching when people outside CGS don't watch it. It doesn't take much to see that the claim of those involved in CGS has a logical fallacy - especially when Tasteless' first English pro-league cast can get millions of viewers internationally.

On November 20 2008 22:58 MayorITC wrote:
Pretty sure FPS are not banned in Korea considering I've seen CS and Sudden Attack matches on TV for the past six years.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Yes there are tons of Koreans who play Starcraft, but there's tons of Koreans who play other games.

E-sports thrives in Korea not because we narrowed our focus to a single game but rather because of the sheer number of gamers in Korea.

On November 20 2008 19:03 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Stop talking out of your ass.
1) Source was only chosen because it was the only viable team-based FPS which was pretty enough to be broadcasted on television, while receiving viewers. It was obvious, if they didn't pick a game that looked good, no one would come watch (DoA over various other good fighting games etc is another example).

On November 20 2008 19:03 GTR-2-Go wrote:
2) One of the reasons why 1.6 players left the 1.6 scene because they were bound to a contract and could not play non-CGS games competitively outside of the CGS circuit. Although there was an exception to this rule (coL playing in CEVO with 1.6), it could have been simply avoided by shaping this rule around to suit the teams needs. Personally though, I think US CS has prospered from the leaving of coL, JMC, EG, 3D etc by garnering new talents such as the players from GG, EG and X30 (who were previously under-looked due to the performances of coL, 3D etc).

On November 20 2008 19:03 GTR-2-Go wrote:
3) The main reason though I think is it was for the money. If I remember correctly, the initial salary per year was 30,000+? After the first season though, it lowered to 25,000 or so. I might be wrong here though. It was an insurance basically, that, even if the players do not perform well, the CGS will be able to compensate and pay the players.

On November 20 2008 19:03 GTR-2-Go wrote:
4) If Source is what Valve wanted to aim as the new CS competitive game, why introduce Dynamic Pricing? (Thankfully that could be disabled). Why introduce buying guns without having to buy ammo? Why do a stupid, MR10, 16k Start Money system? CGS and Valve basically dumbed down CS to the point where it isn't even worth watching. I enjoy watching the pistol round, and to be honest, I think it is one of the most strategical rounds next to the first rifle round. I get excited when teams miraculously win their eco rounds. I don't enjoy 5 players with full grenades/armor on the first round. Most of the thinking required behind CS with the money management was basically lost with the new system being introduced.

On November 20 2008 19:03 GTR-2-Go wrote:
5) What material are you talking about? The ill-fated CSPromod was a step in the right direction, yet a step in the wrong direction. It is best for Valve to produce something similar to this, as it is 1.6 game play wise, yet Source graphic wise, a good combination if you want a game which everyone knows/agrees with yet is broadcast able.

On November 20 2008 18:24 WorldComunist8 wrote:
1) Game choice did not ruin this league. We, the fans, did. We decided that because our favorite game was not involved, we wouldn't give a damn. SC wasn't in it, so half of us didn't watch. Understandable. Source was chosen over 1.6. Get over it and watch it and support this cause. For the other 3 games, they were trying to make it multi-dimensional. Whether they were the right or wrong choices didn't matter. They were learning. There were plans on changing the games anyways before next season. You can't start a revolution with one group. They needed the support of everyone to get going. Not just the fans of the chosen games.

On November 21 2008 09:51 MayorITC wrote:
I also lived in Korea during 1998. I also worked part-time at a PC Bang so I'm fully aware of which games were banned and which games were not. Let me repeat what I said earlier: FPS games were never banned in Korea. Games that had any political reference to North Korea and South Korea were banned regardless of game genre.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163609.html

Thyis is further evident by the fact that there are FPS games that were available in Korea since 1998. Rainbow Six was released in 1998 and was an instant hit at PC Bangs. For awhile it even shared the limelight on TV with Starcraft.

Anyway, this is all a deviation from the main point. Starcraft is hardly the focal point of the Korean gaming industry (not to be confused with the e-sport industry). While Starcraft may be the dominant game in Korean e-sports that doesn't necessarily equate to it being the dominant game in Korea. MMORPGs actually have a larger share in the Korean gaming industry. However, due to the nature of MMORPGs it's hard to convert it into an e-sport as exemplified by WoW.

Thus you can't say that e-sport is successful in Korea because they honed in on a single game because it's simply not true. There are so many different games that were broadcoasted in Korea in the past 10 years. Diablo II, Starcraft, Crazy Arcade, Sudden Attack, Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, and hell, even Tetris Online. The Korean culture made games as a whole extremely popular in the country. But Starcraft being championed above all other games on TV has nothing to do with the Korean culture, but more with the nature of the game itself.

And to conclude all of this post by tying it into the topic.

If you want a few select games to thrive as an e-sport, you have to embrace the entire gaming industry. It has nothing to do with liking a specific title more; choosing Starcraft over DoA 4 or America choosing baseball over soccer. Because before people even elevated one sport over another, they had to address the basic issue: Is America willing to accept sports as a form of commercialized entertainment?

On November 21 2008 09:51 MayorITC wrote:
I also lived in Korea during 1998. I also worked part-time at a PC Bang so I'm fully aware of which games were banned and which games were not. Let me repeat what I said earlier: FPS games were never banned in Korea. Games that had any political reference to North Korea and South Korea were banned regardless of game genre.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163609.html

Thyis is further evident by the fact that there are FPS games that were available in Korea since 1998. Rainbow Six was released in 1998 and was an instant hit at PC Bangs. For awhile it even shared the limelight on TV with Starcraft.

Anyway, this is all a deviation from the main point. Starcraft is hardly the focal point of the Korean gaming industry (not to be confused with the e-sport industry). While Starcraft may be the dominant game in Korean e-sports that doesn't necessarily equate to it being the dominant game in Korea. MMORPGs actually have a larger share in the Korean gaming industry. However, due to the nature of MMORPGs it's hard to convert it into an e-sport as exemplified by WoW.

Thus you can't say that e-sport is successful in Korea because they honed in on a single game because it's simply not true. There are so many different games that were broadcoasted in Korea in the past 10 years. Diablo II, Starcraft, Crazy Arcade, Sudden Attack, Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, and hell, even Tetris Online. The Korean culture made games as a whole extremely popular in the country. But Starcraft being championed above all other games on TV has nothing to do with the Korean culture, but more with the nature of the game itself.

And to conclude all of this post by tying it into the topic.

If you want a few select games to thrive as an e-sport, you have to embrace the entire gaming industry. It has nothing to do with liking a specific title more; choosing Starcraft over DoA 4 or America choosing baseball over soccer. Because before people even elevated one sport over another, they had to address the basic issue: Is America willing to accept sports as a form of commercialized entertainment?

On November 21 2008 09:51 MayorITC wrote:
I also lived in Korea during 1998. I also worked part-time at a PC Bang so I'm fully aware of which games were banned and which games were not. Let me repeat what I said earlier: FPS games were never banned in Korea. Games that had any political reference to North Korea and South Korea were banned regardless of game genre.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163609.html

Thyis is further evident by the fact that there are FPS games that were available in Korea since 1998. Rainbow Six was released in 1998 and was an instant hit at PC Bangs. For awhile it even shared the limelight on TV with Starcraft.

Anyway, this is all a deviation from the main point. Starcraft is hardly the focal point of the Korean gaming industry (not to be confused with the e-sport industry). While Starcraft may be the dominant game in Korean e-sports that doesn't necessarily equate to it being the dominant game in Korea. MMORPGs actually have a larger share in the Korean gaming industry. However, due to the nature of MMORPGs it's hard to convert it into an e-sport as exemplified by WoW.

Thus you can't say that e-sport is successful in Korea because they honed in on a single game because it's simply not true. There are so many different games that were broadcoasted in Korea in the past 10 years. Diablo II, Starcraft, Crazy Arcade, Sudden Attack, Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, and hell, even Tetris Online. The Korean culture made games as a whole extremely popular in the country. But Starcraft being championed above all other games on TV has nothing to do with the Korean culture, but more with the nature of the game itself.

And to conclude all of this post by tying it into the topic.

If you want a few select games to thrive as an e-sport, you have to embrace the entire gaming industry. It has nothing to do with liking a specific title more; choosing Starcraft over DoA 4 or America choosing baseball over soccer. Because before people even elevated one sport over another, they had to address the basic issue: Is America willing to accept sports as a form of commercialized entertainment?