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paper
13196 Posts
On October 09 2008 22:54 BottleAbuser wrote: Everyone agrees that the admiral dude is imba? I didn't really think so o.O what would you guys say if viper was a newly introduced hero? no, he's definitely imba. lol. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On October 09 2008 22:54 BottleAbuser wrote: Everyone agrees that the admiral dude is imba? I didn't really think so o.O what would you guys say if viper was a newly introduced hero? if viper could damage enemy heroes for 100+ damage (a piece) in 1 shot without even hitting them, had lane control as a melee hero vs any 2 heroes, and had a 1000+ range cast nuke that sends units flying into the air (they have no control either) or a ship that does alot of damage in a huge aoe (the aoe has to be roughly 400-500 aoe), and stuns, then i would see your point. Viper is a 1v1 specialist/ganker. He excels at that. Admiral can not only lane control vs 2 heroes by himself, he can out cs them too! even being lazy you can get 100+ cs at 20 minutes, and on top of that he is amazing at ganking/anti gank, team fights (his ships rum affects your entire team). He is by far a way better all around hero than viper, its not even worth comparing =/. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On October 10 2008 07:29 Alventenie wrote: if viper could damage enemy heroes for 100+ damage (a piece) in 1 shot without even hitting them, had lane control as a melee hero vs any 2 heroes, and had a 1000+ range cast nuke that sends units flying into the air (they have no control either) or a ship that does alot of damage in a huge aoe (the aoe has to be roughly 400-500 aoe), and stuns, then i would see your point. Viper is a 1v1 specialist/ganker. He excels at that. Admiral can not only lane control vs 2 heroes by himself, he can out cs them too! even being lazy you can get 100+ cs at 20 minutes, and on top of that he is amazing at ganking/anti gank, team fights (his ships rum affects your entire team). He is by far a way better all around hero than viper, its not even worth comparing =/. Its a valid point. If QoP/Mirana/Viper/TB/Warlock was introduced today, we would all be screaming imba. Proudmoore is not THAT op, but he will probably be nerfed passed usefulness because of all the crying. | ||
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
The casting range of his nuke needs to be nerfed. And some function of his nuke needs to be nerfed as well. 300 damage + all the time in the air taking hits + they are slowed that you can hit someone? You can literally kill agil/int heros asap. To kill a str hero all you need is to throw an X or a ship afterwards if they aren't already dead. X marks the spot is fine to be honest, perhaps some slight tweaking but nothing huge needs to be done because its CD is high enough that it's not overpowered. The cleave I am not sure if that should be replaced with something else, but it seems hard to balance. It needs a nerf but how exactly? Cleave is one of the main reasons he's overpowered. With these changes he'd still be an extremely useful hero, and not the, "wtf 20 minutes have passed and he's already 5-0 6-0 7-0 8-0 9-0 10-0" etc... that we keep seeing. His ultimate cooldown could be nerfed as well, because once you get used to using it, it's pretty good. My main problem with him is his water nuke and his cleave though. We are not using him a as a dual laner thus far, in most games he has been solo. And every game he has been solo he has completely dominated. (And I think in the couple dual laned games he's been really powerful as well). It's not like we're not playing games without all the good heros in them. But when he starts dominating good heros it's getting a bit ridiculous. While he is quite different, it's kind of like Clockwerk where you just get RoB + Get a perseverance then laugh as you rack up kills + CS and become overpowered. He can carry a game due to the extremely fast rate at which he farms and can outfarm stronger late game heros. If any of TL's good players get admiral, it's like an assured 10-0 or 10-1 score in a fairly short time. And in the event they don't finish off all their kills, they will be dominating their lane atleast. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
Or keep it the same, but only the +60 damage is splashed, having his entire attack is completely imbalanced. Torrent should be revamped completely imo. If you keep the range the same, drop the damage to zero, make it slow enemy hero by 25% for 2/3/4/5 second and receive extra damage afflicted by spells by 10% for 5 seconds. That way you increase its use in making its damage comparable to a ganking aspect, rather than, oh hai 300 damage + beating on you. Now you actually have to do damage than if they are low cast it and they die. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
the cleave is like the most ridiculous shit ever though | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
I agree with the cleave, its going to need to be nerfed somehow, but i just hope it isnt going to be so nerfed that no one gets it =P | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
http://dota.sgamer.com/html/Replay_Download_25942.html chinese style ganking, atropos + mirana is imba | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
http://dota.sgamer.com/Replay_List.html | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
should be good fun map is 6.56 who are the imba carries in 6.56? Time to try and learn about picks/bans.counters etc to try and help mah team  so I'm gonna make a basic list of categories to help myself out Carries: DK Luna Brood Lycan Spectre TB Meepo Sven SK Destro Off carries: Mirana QoP Axe Centaur Warlock Mag SF Ward-bitches: Azgalor Lina Lesh Pugna Jakiro Lich Roam: Veno VS CW NA Puck Zues ES Jungle/gank: TH Chen Axe Centaur BM (Still playable after nerf to hawk?) Furion Babysitters: Warlock Necrolyte Omni NA Tree Pushers: Lesh Puck Brood Pugna Furion Warlock Random counters: Slardar vs BKB carry Diffusal/medusa vs warlock/brood/sven/omni ES, puck, potm, qop, Azgalor etc vs push strats Am I wrong about categorizing a hero? I tried to only list ones that are 'playable' Do I have any significant heroes missing? Help me out | ||
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Pacifist
Israel1683 Posts
On October 29 2008 03:56 zulu_nation8 wrote: MGC 2008 starting in China, I think it's the first offline dota Chinese tourney that invites foreign teams. However most of the big teams couldn't make it due to lack of players/cost of travel. But KS.INT and Fnatic/XCN were able to come. They played some really nice games vs the top Chinese teams and the several lesser known Chinese teams definitely held their own, even taking a few games from fnatic. One problem though is that the organization for some reason decided to use 6.53 as the official map which has a really imba dragon knight. Otherwise some really nice games were played, download them here. http://dota.sgamer.com/Replay_List.html Why is DK imba in .53? | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
On October 30 2008 04:00 Butigroove wrote: im playing cal-o this season should be good fun map is 6.56 who are the imba carries in 6.56? Time to try and learn about picks/bans.counters etc to try and help mah team so I'm gonna make a basic list of categories to help myself out Carries: DK Luna Brood Lycan Spectre TB Meepo Sven SK Destro Off carries: Mirana QoP Axe Centaur Warlock Mag SF Ward-bitches: Azgalor Lina Lesh Pugna Jakiro Lich Roam: Veno VS CW NA Puck Zues ES Jungle/gank: TH Chen Axe Centaur BM (Still playable after nerf to hawk?) Furion Babysitters: Warlock Necrolyte Omni NA Tree Pushers: Lesh Puck Brood Pugna Furion Warlock Random counters: Slardar vs BKB carry Diffusal/medusa vs warlock/brood/sven/omni ES, puck, potm, qop, Azgalor etc vs push strats Am I wrong about categorizing a hero? I tried to only list ones that are 'playable' Do I have any significant heroes missing? Help me out A few things I would say; BM - Yes. Definetly. You can still use invis for 5 seconds, and you still have a hawk that can scout. So yes imo! Omni - big bad ass hero, excellent team hero, and if you dont plan on using him, i would highly recommend banning him. Why? 20 sec magic immune, and his ulti is not something to joke about. Plus with his heal (used correctly) can give him strong lane control and make him strong pusher. All round sick hero. What about all the new heroes? Lycan, Admiral, Goblin, Invoker? All pretty imba at the moment. Both Admiral and Goblin are strong roamers and strong early-mid game gangers. Ok, I see you put Lycan in the list there now. I am sure you know, if you dont plan on playing him, and you do not have first pick, might be a good idea in banning him, unless you are confident you can deal with him. And lets not forget about Invoker. Invoker, played correctly, is very strong early on with massive damage output, and is a good counter to any agi solo hero (potm, sf, viper etc). And of course, he has strong combos that help whole team out in fights. I think Rooftrellan is a hero that should be used more imo. Strong babysitter and if you place your eyes smartly, it gives you good map control (forcing them to waste time hunting eyes down). Plus the main advatange with Tree is that his ulti goes through BKB. Yes, Roots > BKB. And as BKB is used more often these days, makes it a good choice. A smart tree can make whole team invis and gang, unlike pub tree players that just invis them selves T_T. Good for laying down traps. I seen a really strong push strat by Brood, where he went two void stones and ring of ballisus. Needless to say, he always had mana to constantly make spiderlings, and just over ran towers early levels. However as you know, drawback is, if you do not succsesfully end the game by 30-35minutes and have pushed hard early, you are screwed. Because you will be outfarmed. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
Lycan is a "i farmed jungle for 25 minutes and i have vlads treads + any tier 4 item". After that he goes into a spiral downwards to where he no longer can do anything, because people get too much hp and his ult is very short, and stopped by most teams with stuns/disables. Invoker is food to most heroes, even with his buffs to having his spells at level 2. He does weak damage except vs low hp intel/agi heroes. Any decent roamer will either farm him or keep him tower hugging entire game because he has no hp. Clockwerk however, is an insane hero to solo mid. He has nice str gain still, and is insane at ganking. rob -> persev and you can gank pretty much non stop and destroy every hero the opposing team has. I haven't found a solid counter to clockwerk once he has all 4 of his spells, he can stop any intel from casting, and hes beefy enough to take on most str heroes with no problem. Only way clock dies is if he makes mistakes, otherwise an extremely solid hero in any line up. Chewits, 2x void + rob is meh, i would rather persev + rob into a 12-13 minute bfury and push in their base by 20. Only way to stop it is to have really really good aoe (2 people with strong aoe, or the new kotl works well =P). Also, unless admiral is auto banned, using him vs a dual lane is very nice because he can farm very well early game due to his passive + harassing hero due to his passive and multiple control abilities. Once he is above opposing lane in levels he can almost free farm them unless they are a strong league lane (dual stun with high burst, any babysitting lane will probably lose to admiral) | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
Also I think Lycan is alot atronger than youre giving him credit for. Its more like I farm for 25 minutes and I have Vlads treads BKB and gets a free kill every time his ult is up :| | ||
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terr13
United States298 Posts
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/71512/index.html + Show Spoiler + In the end AM + Leroic were just too strong. Everyone played nice in both teams. A few mistakes here and there, but gg. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On October 30 2008 17:22 Butigroove wrote: Ah I forgot about CW Also I think Lycan is alot atronger than youre giving him credit for. Its more like I farm for 25 minutes and I have Vlads treads BKB and gets a free kill every time his ult is up :| Lycan is a hero about countering at level 1. If you dont take the time to ward his 2 big jungle spots (L5 and L3 pullable), then you will get rolled. Otherwise with decent hero make up (ie, not a full random team in ap), he is not a good carry. His ult doesn't last long enough vs any team with disables and he cant initiate like other carries can. If your team can't break the opposing teams formation then lycan will do nothing. One of our games the other day it happened. Lycan was randomed vs a full random team. He jungled (and died a few times delaying items). We just constantly ganked him whenever he appeared in lane/warded areas and he went from a 20 minute radi to a 28 minute radi or something. By that time our AM was plenty geared and rest of team was support/gank mode and we were about to win, then darkcell (our AM) dropped and we were like tt. Anyways, 2 more reps: Clockwerk rep, mostly just decent hooks here, although i miss alot of easy ones too due to being tired =/ http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/72230/index.html Enigma rep, we played a hlr 3 since we didn't have 10, came up against a decent group of pubs that actually worked together. I tried a new play on enigma since my lane was really faggy =P. http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/72231/index.html | ||
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