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Depends on the line up, if you have a carry killer, such as necrolyte/lina/lion with high damage ults that are meant to kill heroes, then you can do an early mid game push, or try for dagon/aghs and try to just burst their carry down before he can do anything.
If you have ganking heroes, such as na/qop/potm, you should gank him as much as possible. as soon as he comes into a lane, your ganker should start a gank to have him killed, or have someone go to that lane asaply so he cannot free farm. If he is being baby sat mid and you are 1v2ing him, focus on keeping him back/denying the creeps he tries to kill so he doesn't get any money.
If you are picking a team that revovles around team fighting, go for a early push around levels 8-10, and then continue pushing so they have to defend, and if they dont have 5 defend punish them by killing them and raxing before 30. Makes their life extremely hard because someone has to defend that lane at all times, meaning you have map control and the ability to gank the person defending or push other lanes so they have to focus on 2 lanes at once or put more heroes in that lane so you dont gank.
Whatever you do though, if you have heroes that can tower dive well, and are against a dk/tb, you need to keep them down somehow. Your support needs to keep them blind by counter warding if they do ward and you guys need to keep the pressure up. If your team has a dk/tb, you do the opposite, you prevent them from ganking said carry until they can farm enough to carry in team fights and you go on to win.
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Yea I've realized as leader I have to initiate the gank by calling for them when I see the opportunity, also the early pushing thing makes sense and if successful will definitely give us more breathing space for farming. Also yea counter warding is important, we almost never do that because Chinese people don't know how to play support. They just place the wards elsewhere when our opponents are countering.
Btw I'm going back to the US in 2-3 weeks and I'm looking to get into leagues, can you guys hook me up with some scrims so I can have some replays to show for? I really wanna see where I am skill wise so I can decide if I should keep on playing or not.
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Just played two pubs in the high level room, both tb first game 0-8 early game but finished 13-9. Second game 23-2 but fucking tide goes straight refresher, no mana to use it, spiritbreaker was retarded, and we ended up losing. Replays in 1.20 at the bottom of this page
http://bbs.ogame.net/html/Post_77422_24_465.html#465
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Northern Ireland1200 Posts
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Good idea, badly executed imo.
Spoke nothing about the real issues in dota over the past 20 or so versions.
1. Stop introducing more heroes:
A. Fix existing heroes. This has been done a hell of a lot better in the very latest version including CM/Lina animations, Drow, Enigma etc. Also anything you fix, make sure the rest of the heroes are adjusted accordingly. [ Difficult, but hey keep introducing new heroes I heard it helps ]
B. Nerf the right things. I definitely remember reading somewhere a statement from Icefrog himself that went something like: ' I like to introduce new heroes extremely overpowered so that way their imbalances are more apparent and I can nerf them accordingly. When Broodmother was first introduced she was ridiculously imbalanced but nobody picked up on that. ' <--- dumb as fuck.
C. Related point: Fix items not heroes. If this was like 5 versions ago I'd still be saying introduce more items not heroes, but its improved ALOT with the introduction of orchid, cuirass, vlads, etc.
[Shivas mvp item]
2. Playtesting
A.Were Brood, Lycan, and Clockwerk even played by map beta testers? Seriously lycan can rush vlads and rosh by himself at level 7. SEVEN.
B. What the fuck is j00ce? Nigga what the fuck is armlet. Str hero + Armlet = sweet where's the int or agi equivalent.
C. Map terrain? Scourge top lane >>>>>>> Sentinel bottom lane.
> Jungle capabilities.
3. Items: Needs the least amount of work but still some blatant flaws with some items. Blademails ftl.
A: Suggestion, make aegis give the bonuses it used to. More incentive to kill Roshan.
> Introduce max attack speed rune.
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My biggest issue is the top lane scourge vs sentinel bottom lane.
Once you really master top lane, (I haven't yet because I never lane it almost, and tbh I think it's gay to abuse an imbalance that they can't return the favour on) but the people i've seen who have really gotten the hang of it, it becomes a huuuuge imbalance to that lane. Lonery when he actually focus'd on it, or Alvens friend AttackDruid seemed to gain quite a bit more experience through proper pulling/positioning.
I don't really care about Lycan/Brood/Clock. Meepo rapes all three of them.
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I just played a crazy pub game. We were scourge Tide, SF, QOP, Lich, Nightstalker, they were Obsidian Destroyer, ES, Electric Panda, Atropos, Chaos Knight.
The game lasted for 84 minutes, our nightstaker left at 60ish I think. We raxed mid and bottom lane, but then lost badly in a fight when they attacked, they raxed our middle and was going for the throne, our sf was down at bottom trying to kill throne by himself but Atropos was there to harass, our throne ended up getting down to about 200 health before we stopped them. In the ensuring push everyone died but their CK and OD were alive, however they were having trouble clearing creeps and our creeps managed to kill their throne. Closest game I've played thus far. Makes me realize how important heroes who can clear creeps are for late game. I'd upload the replay to dota-allstars but my internet is being weird.
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bloodseeker with two battlefuries or so can clear any number of mega creeps without losing any health O_O
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rofl what about jugg with 3 battlefuries and satanic? tide with 4 battle furies?
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well, anyone farmed with life leech can easily clear mega creeps ;d
but bs can do so a lot earlier :3
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SAND KING CAUSTIC BITCH SLAP
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When you say scourge top lane > sent bottom lane you mean that scourge top lane can pull twice right. But I mean it's really not that big of a deal since if you want you can pull twice too at sent bottom by eating the trees so you can go through to the other creeps. I think icefrog should limit the amount the ancient creeps can be pulled, I'm sick of seeing Luna getting butterfly 5min after bkb just because he saw the zenith vs ks replay.
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Northern Ireland1200 Posts
You can stack the scourge top camp and pulling your own creeps to attack at same time. Then you have a very short distance to farming the "easy" spawn in scourge. You can also pull the far left scourge camp to the lane far left lane, and you can pull it to the very top neutral spawn.
Ack its common practice in beta testing when introducing something new, to make it slightly more powerful than the rest. Apparently this makes it easier to balance, after a full on test has been made. But I do have to agree with your statement regarding the beta testers. Lycan and Clock are so overpowered right now. Clock, is ridicoulsly Overpowered with his cogs. Yea, hes a bit weak late game, but still, perhaps a little too strong early on. That cog spell is like having Pudges ulti at level 1. Its crazy. Lycan? Well, just dont understand why they hell they changed him, he was powerful enough the way he was before.
The thing about that thread, is the author, is saying not to make it balanced, but to make it more enjoyable for an e-sport. Which is kind of weird. Its well known that DotA has been wanting to get into the e-sport mainstream for a long time, but with not alot of success. Do you make it more balanced or make it more accessible for a wider audience? Personally, I am all for balance.
Oh, I really like the Idea of faster Rune spawning. It would make people more active on checking them, and thus leaving lanes and thus more roaming/ganging. However would this actually prolong the length of games? Hmmm
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what is a "carry" character?
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Carry is usually an agi hero who has big late game potential and can help the win games but weak early on, some int and str heroes are also carry. They all have big damage output late game with items but they need to farm them.
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Carry isnt exactly that bly. Carry just means he is the focus of your team, the person that does alot of the damage in battles and is focused on killing the other team. The big carries now are DK/spec/Leoric, mostly because of armlet for SK + dk (and ck if you prefer, but he seems weaker imo than the first 2). Spec is just imba all around and is really good for always being at team fights/ganks, and is really hard to kill later since you basically kill yourself to kill her.
edit: what i meant by that is that carries aren't always late game, many heroes can "carry" the game to win by just pushing early before the end game carries really take off and become extremely strong.
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What Chewits said.
What Alventenie said.
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is awesome32282 Posts
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+ _+
I wish I could play games with agu, he seems like he has a nice in-game personality.
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Uhh after the Spectre remake fiasco, I gave up on IceFrog coming up with a fairly balanced game. Reason? Pretty much anyone who beta-tested that map version said: Spectre overpowered, needs nerf. Did Icefrog listen? No. Did he release another version to nerf Spec? ~1 week after. The guy has no fucking idea what beta testing is suppose to do.
Other examples are like the Lina nerf, the Warlock release (60-70 base damage level 1 for a ranged int that can heal and pumps stats?), seriously Icefrog either buffs the heroes the overpowered status or nerf them to uselessness (remember Clinkz and then the BB remake).
And Chewits, that doesn't make the game faster, it would make it slower. Teams would just run 2 mid and rune control harder, as well as warding earlier; you see this trend now with teams with early wards to stop junglers/pullers and to grab the first few runes with bottles. The problem with that is your solos could be hard pressed at times. If you want to speed up a game, increase the number of starting creeps, so people can farm more/quicker or the popular fix the bases to prevent bottlenecks of fights when trying to push into people's bases.
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EPT
