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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On March 06 2009 18:04 thedeadhaji wrote:
uhhhhh, I NEVER intended my 'criticisms' to be negative in nature, if that's what this whole thing is about.
I simply wanted to point out parts that I thought could have been improved on for constructive purposes / discussion.
Of course you make mistakes. But that doesn't mean pointing them out / improving on them is fruitless?
It might.
Look at it like this: if I forget to build a probe before sending my first 4 probes to the mineral line, for the first time in 50 games, a mistake I will not repeat in my next 50 games, is there any use in pointing it out?
Not to mention how embarassing and frustrating it is to hear someone point out mistakes you made in a tournament that you NEVER make under normal circumstances.
A lot of errors made under tournament pressure are "obvious" anyway. Like not punishing corkscrew blow with a super.
And then there are the criticisms that advocate things that you would never do in a game that matters due to the risk of screwing them up (which can cause you to take damage AND make you feel like shit for screwing up, which leads to even more mistakes). 3MC took care of this part, imo.
Heck, one of the top-2 3s Ken players in Canada always does close.mp xx close.hp xx EX-hadouken instead of close.mp xx close.hp xx jab-shoryuken because the shoryuken sometimes misses, and to him it's not worth taking that risk in a tournament, even though EX-hadouken consumes metre (the damage is almost the same). In addition, if he screws up the hit confirm and does EX-hadouken on block, he's (essentially) safe.
You can waste all the time in the world arguing why that's theoretically bad. But in the end, he wins tournaments and you, well, you don't even enter them period. Besides, you can't even argue in theory anyway, because you cannot estimate the impact of the mental damage he would suffer in a high-pressure game if that shoryuken missed and he ate a combo and/or lost a round/match as a result.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Heck, one of the top-2 3s Ken players in Canada always does close.mp xx close.hp xx EX-hadouken instead of close.mp xx close.hp xx jab-shoryuken because the shoryuken sometimes misses, and to him it's not worth taking that risk in a tournament, even though EX-hadouken consumes metre (the damage is almost the same). In addition, if he screws up the hit confirm and does EX-hadouken on block, he's (essentially) safe.
Can this be criticized - Yes
Is he making a mistake given the factors involved - No
Should he explore improving this - Yes, imo.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On March 06 2009 18:25 Bill307 wrote:
You can waste all the time in the world arguing why that's theoretically bad. But in the end, he wins tournaments and you, well, you don't even enter them period.
OUCH!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
this is starting to sound way too much like "can a D rank bw player criticize progamers"
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On March 06 2009 18:25 Bill307 wrote:
Look at it like this: if I forget to build a probe before sending my first 4 probes to the mineral line, for the first time in 50 games, a mistake I will not repeat in my next 50 games, is there any use in pointing it out?
Not to mention how embarassing and frustrating it is to hear someone point out mistakes you made in a tournament that you NEVER make under normal circumstances.
A lot of errors made under tournament pressure are "obvious" anyway. Like not punishing corkscrew blow with a super.
mm, this really seems to be the root of the argument, in which case there really is no argument to be had.
So yea...
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On March 06 2009 18:04 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +In addition to 3MC's posts, Haji, once you actually compete in a tournament, let alone in the finals, you will never criticise anyone for their tournament performance ever again. "never criticize"? What? How do you expect to improve upon your current state without criticism whether it be from yourself or someone else? Did you think I was just outright bashing your friend for his mistakes or something, going "lol look @ him noob he sucks!"? Why would I ever do that, when he's obviously 10x better than me, and he's a friend of a friend(Bill,you). Stating areas where I thought he can improve upon is wrong... how?
I said you will never criticise someone else's tournament performance.
The reason is, you would never want someone else to criticise your own tournament performance. And you cannot question this until you have actually been in that situation yourself. I've explained it repeatedly, anyway.
If you want to state areas where you think he can improve... I wouldn't say that's wrong by default, but:
- no one is asking for advice
- he already has lots of RL friends who have played many games with him and can give him much better advice
- he is 10x better than you
- he is playing in a tournament grand finals and you've never played in any 3s tournament before
- some of your advice is obvious/unnecessary
- some of your advice is bad for a tournament setting
- most of your advice concerns mistakes he never makes under normal circumstances
The combination makes your advice wrong.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On March 06 2009 18:32 thedeadhaji wrote:
this is starting to sound way too much like "can a D rank bw player criticize progamers"
I used to think a D-level player criticising pros was just fine, and used to criticise Protoss progamers all the time.
But this discussion is making me realize how silly it was for me to do that, most of the time.
99% of the people who do it (including myself) don't appreciate the stress the progamers are under in those situations.
Once you do, suddenly a mistake is no longer "ugh what a newb", but rather, "oh shit he screwed up by accident".
And if you understand that 99 times out of 100, they won't make that mistake, and how it feels to be in their position making that 1 out of 100 mistake in the middle of a game, then suddenly "criticising" just seems wrong. Pointing out mistake as an accident = cool; criticising them as playing badly = not cool.
Of course, if you see them make the same mistake repeatedly over a longer term, then that's different... 
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
What I can take from this experience, tbh is to move on and just avoid this thread altogether from now on since I dont play or watch fighting games anymore. My interest has waned, and frankly I no longer have much to offer (whereas before I guess I could contribute an article translation or stream/live cast translation from SBO I guess).
Honestly I probably no longer belong here anyways - as a player or spectator - and it'll just prevent me from getting into a similar situation again in the future which is bound to happen knowing my tendency to assume negativity from the other side and begin shitstom arguments that cause a huge amount of unnecessary bad blood (happened with Neo, happened with Hotbid, happened with you).
Look @ this whole mess that happened just b/c I decided to watch and comment on a whim for the first time in god knows how long, without knowing my place. I haven't watched a single fighting game vid since GVision stopped torrents ffs.
I apologize for my inconsiderate words and judgment Bill, best of luck to you and Yang .
edit: because I know text-communication can cause miscommunication, I'm going to clarify that I am being sincere in my statements above, particularly in regretting my actions and the ways in which I offended you.
edit2: Additional clarification that this isn't a "I'm leaving to spite you!" post. I really do think this is just a natural progression.
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On March 06 2009 18:58 thedeadhaji wrote:
What I can take from this experience, tbh is to just avoid this thread altogether from now on since I dont play or watch fighting games anymore. Honestly I probably no longer belong here anyways, and it'll just prevent me from getting into a similar situation again in the future which is bound to happen knowing my tendency to assume negativity from the other side and begin shitstom arguments that cause a huge amount of unnecessary bad blood (happened with Neo, happened with Hotbid, happened with you).
Look @ this whole mess that happened just b/c I decided to watch and comment on a whim for the first time in god knows how long. I haven't watched a single fighting game vid since GVision stopped torrents ffs.
I apologe for my inconsiderate words and judgement Bill.
no it's time for you to play lag matches with us in whatever online-capable games you can access so we can laugh at how silly fighting games can be when we JUST DON'T CAAAAAAAAAAAAARE
imo
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someone got over the top >_>
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And also get an ACTUAL converter
so you can stop missing qcf inputs :D
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I suppose it was obviously coming, and I probably just missed the news personally, but BlazBlue was announced for North America on both PS3/360 a couple days ago. Since Aksysgames did the NA arcade release at the same time as JP (IIRC...give or take) and they're doing the console NA release, hopefully we'll get BB at the same summer time that JP gets it.
edit: source
Arcadia rankings for Jan. '09:
1) Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion / 鉄拳6 BLOODLINE REBELLION - 341.2
2) BlazBlue / ブレイブルー - 286.3
3) Gundam VS. / 機動戦士ガンダム ガンダムVS.ガンダム - 258.3
4) Melty Blood Actress Again - 207.2
5) Street Fighter IV - 164.7
6) Virtua Fighter 5 R - 126.9
7) Arcana Heart 2: Sugoi / すっごい!アルカナハート2 ～転校生 あかねとなずな～ - 101.4
8) Tatsunoko VS. Capcom: Cross Generation of Heroes - 96.3
9) Guilty Gear XX ^Core - 87.4
10) DeathSmiles - Mega Black Label / デススマイルズ MBL - 60.2
To me, TvC is surprisingly high upon reflection, not so surprising. And I'm kind of wondering again about F/UC over MBAA at SBO given popularity.
Wikipedia says only 150 DeathSmiles Mega Black Label games were made. Consider the fact that Japanese don't credit feed shmups--and so a single session may be quite a while until all lives are lost--and the fact that there's that few machines, and still the game got 60.2 of whatever that unit is...which is 35% of SF4.
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woot for Tekken 6BR. I'm actually looking forward to it more than I was for SF4.
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On March 07 2009 07:28 Myrmidon wrote:I suppose it was obviously coming, and I probably just missed the news personally, but BlazBlue was announced for North America on both PS3/360 a couple days ago. Since Aksysgames did the NA arcade release at the same time as JP (IIRC...give or take) and they're doing the console NA release, hopefully we'll get BB at the same summer time that JP gets it. edit: sourceArcadia rankings for Jan. '09: 1) Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion / 鉄拳6 BLOODLINE REBELLION - 341.2 2) BlazBlue / ブレイブルー - 286.3 3) Gundam VS. / 機動戦士ガンダム ガンダムVS.ガンダム - 258.3 4) Melty Blood Actress Again - 207.2 5) Street Fighter IV - 164.7 6) Virtua Fighter 5 R - 126.9 7) Arcana Heart 2: Sugoi / すっごい!アルカナハート2 ～転校生 あかねとなずな～ - 101.4 8) Tatsunoko VS. Capcom: Cross Generation of Heroes - 96.3 9) Guilty Gear XX ^Core - 87.4 10) DeathSmiles - Mega Black Label / デススマイルズ MBL - 60.2 To me, TvC is surprisingly high upon reflection, not so surprising. And I'm kind of wondering again about F/UC over MBAA at SBO given popularity. Wikipedia says only 150 DeathSmiles Mega Black Label games were made. Consider the fact that Japanese don't credit feed shmups--and so a single session may be quite a while until all lives are lost--and the fact that there's that few machines, and still the game got 60.2 of whatever that unit is...which is 35% of SF4.
IIRC MBAA v.A wasn't out yet when they announced the SBO lineup?
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Ah maybe I should get a 360/PS3 this summer. In HK they were selling "chipped" 360s but I think I like more PS3 games.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On March 04 2009 13:54 Scooter wrote:
Are there any negative edge characters in AH2 (hilde, eddie, ball rag to a degree)?
Oh, I just remembered: there ARE things in AH2 done with negative edge, such as:
- Releasing Gier's specials/supers.
- Releasing the Lightning supers.
- Releasing a Time 5E/2E clone.
So you can take Lieselotte, whose doll attacks on positive edge, and pair her with Gier to give her attacks that happen on negative edge. 
Dunno if that's what you were looking for, though. ^^
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
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Speaking of which, a Blazblue machine finally arrived around my area, time to dedicate some time to practice.
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EPT
