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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On September 07 2009 01:55 Ace wrote: you tower dive without bracers? V_V yea o.O, if you gank a lane you can hook in + have them run in and normally kill a hero before you take too much damage. Also alot of lanes can be pushed and you can just gank the lane without getting in range of the tower. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Clock build: magic stick / bottle / boots -> destroy world -> build phase: aghs: or hood: whichever is needed most at the time. You'll know what's needed. If you're against zeus/lich/CM. Odds are, you're getting a hood before phase or aghs. ;p The new price on the cloak is awesome. Sometimes I get just the cloak if I don't need a full hood in quite a few games and get other items instead and sell the cloak later for something better. (aka, after I have my heart/ didn't really need that much magic resistance etc). | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
So far I haven't had any difficult lanes unless vs a good babysit lane. I don't mind being against a good kill lane because usually their carry isn't getting super farmed. vs a good babysit you can't kill them. (You can kill some shitty/careless babysits though). I killed a WL/Slardar and was like 'lawl they're dumb'. But long story short clock should only really change lanes vs a decent to good babysit lane or if the viper/enchantress he's playing is really good and getting really good farm without the possibility of getting killed. Because against a good babysit lane you're wasting the potential of clock and letting their carry free farm while you are probably getting jack squat for CS. (Or someone should FUCKING GANK THEM!!!!) ;p As for dual lanes, you can put clock with a lot of things. And he can kill people in a dual lane starting at level 1 with an ally on some rare occasions and has a lot of kill power starting at level 3. Battery assault is super deadly. =[ | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
:D | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
oogie boogie | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
 As for Ench I've realized it takes literally a double stun lane or a mass nuking to kill that hoe. Ridiculously hard to kill but I never see her picked in replays or even banned. Viper still owns though. Such a bullshit rape hero since when being melee vs him there's literally nothing you can do to him. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On September 07 2009 02:34 paper wrote: why do people like MYM.Testie come into this thread and shit up its beauty :D I need to see you rage moar pubs man  | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 07 2009 02:11 Ace wrote: well what heroes would you say give clock problems in a lane? You still need a competent ally in most cases when dual laning since you can't run around BAing people till you hit 6. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/22979 How to play against CW with SF, even though gix is just not on Demon's level, Demon really just neuters the CW. | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
and that SF missed a lot of easy CS :\ | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Clockwerk is good. Tnx. | ||
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Antifate
United States415 Posts
And no unit sounds really. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
I'm not supporting these changes because I want dota to be a shorter game. I don't have any problem with playing a 60 min game but that feeling of having to put so much effort into wrapping up the game after you get a significant lead is annoying. Comebacks are nice but I think SC has the balance I'm looking for where you have to really earn your comeback from playing poorly early/mid. - bounty on kill streakers should not increase: 'HEY you're doing really well, just remember not to fuck up and die to their carry cause he might make 700 gold off you.' What a stupid system. I'm surprised this bullshit is still around. If dota is going to go in the competitive direction, there shouldn't be any penalty whatsoever for doing well. You get more experience from higher lvl heroes as it is. - no/less random creep $. I know it averages out after like 100 cs but for the same reasons as mentioned above, the randomness is unnecessary. It's like SCVs mining randomly between 6-10 minerals each time. - more hero kill bounty. This would encourage more aggressive play and games that already have been won would end faster. Perhaps more power to heroes like tiny and puj. - each hero within a certain distance of enemy tower reduces its armor by a certain amount. As it is now, split pushing prolongs the game and in some cases it's just creeps going back and forth with a few deaths here and there without much progress. This feature would encourage pushing earlier which leads to more decisive battles and less of 1 asshole prolonging the game for another 5 minutes by discouraging the other team to push since they don't want to risk losing a 5v4. - don't completely remove buyback but give it a cd just like glyph - I have mixed feelings about wards. They're an important part of dota but lately I've felt that they too prolong the game. Maybe 3 sentries per 200 gold would make things interesting. Again, the idea is to give a slight edge to the winning team. More specific things to introduce more heroes/strats: - make pipe single target with shorter cd maybe - MoM sucks.. reduce extra dmg taken and make it so you that you cant die from the extra dmg like kunkka's ult. Kind of minor but hey, you might see more barathrum and FV - hands of midas = stupid item that doesn't really contribute to the game imo - longer push distance on force staff ^_^ - stronger necrobook 1/2 So what do you think? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I can tell you this though, Icefrog does take what known players say seriously. Do NOT present yourself as another person with suggestions if you want to be taken seriously, since your team is in ADC09 as the Korea representative, I suggest you post your suggestion with that in mind. And if you want to be more effective in actually getting changes actually implemented, get the opinions of your fellow ADC-ers. And one last thing, he is the middle of balance and fixings for 6.63, if you want to get your stuff in, now is the best time. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On September 08 2009 00:45 Heen wrote: So there's a discussion in D-A comp. forums about how dota became more 'boring' compared to the earlier versions and I'd like to add my 2 cents on how I'd like the general gameplay to be changed and see what you guys think. Some of the suggestions I'll make won't be my own but I'll try to explain why I support them. I'm not supporting these changes because I want dota to be a shorter game. I don't have any problem with playing a 60 min game but that feeling of having to put so much effort into wrapping up the game after you get a significant lead is annoying. Comebacks are nice but I think SC has the balance I'm looking for where you have to really earn your comeback from playing poorly early/mid. - bounty on kill streakers should not increase: 'HEY you're doing really well, just remember not to fuck up and die to their carry cause he might make 700 gold off you.' What a stupid system. I'm surprised this bullshit is still around. If dota is going to go in the competitive direction, there shouldn't be any penalty whatsoever for doing well. You get more experience from higher lvl heroes as it is. - no/less random creep $. I know it averages out after like 100 cs but for the same reasons as mentioned above, the randomness is unnecessary. It's like SCVs mining randomly between 6-10 minerals each time. - more hero kill bounty. This would encourage more aggressive play and games that already have been won would end faster. Perhaps more power to heroes like tiny and puj. - each hero within a certain distance of enemy tower reduces its armor by a certain amount. As it is now, split pushing prolongs the game and in some cases it's just creeps going back and forth with a few deaths here and there without much progress. This feature would encourage pushing earlier which leads to more decisive battles and less of 1 asshole prolonging the game for another 5 minutes by discouraging the other team to push since they don't want to risk losing a 5v4. - don't completely remove buyback but give it a cd just like glyph - I have mixed feelings about wards. They're an important part of dota but lately I've felt that they too prolong the game. Maybe 3 sentries per 200 gold would make things interesting. Again, the idea is to give a slight edge to the winning team. More specific things to introduce more heroes/strats: - make pipe single target with shorter cd maybe - MoM sucks.. reduce extra dmg taken and make it so you that you cant die from the extra dmg like kunkka's ult. Kind of minor but hey, you might see more barathrum and FV - hands of midas = stupid item that doesn't really contribute to the game imo - longer push distance on force staff ^_^ - stronger necrobook 1/2 So what do you think? While i like some of your suggestions, but i really think its just the way some heroes are right now. Alot of play styles right now in dota go toward a heavy carry late game which means people want to prolong the game for that carry. With you being able to all port to the tower at the same time (instead of 1 by 1), its hard to surprise push and gain an advantage by killing a hero before their entire team is there within 3 seconds. There are also a decent amount of heroes who are just really hard to gank/time consuming to gank. Some carries have to be ganked all game where as others you can just kill them a couple times early and they fall too far behind, so its not too bad. Right now as i see it, the game is rewarding pushing alot more than ganking (Testie scrimmed last week vs a team that did a split pushing strategy of invoker/krob, they lost even though they had a large hero kill advantage because all they did was defend pushes all the time). Also, you say to remove the kill streak bonus, but increase the average hero kill gold. I don't mind either, but i think the kill streak gold should be lowered while the average gold of killing a hero is increased, or to just give people who assist a hero kill partial gold as well (like 15% of total hero gold). Maybe then you could increase the average hero gold kill and everyone who assists can get some. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
For anyone interested, this is the interview that started all of this recent discussion. http://www.fragster.de/artikel/8111/dota-interview-with-razerkuroky-the-strategic-part-of-dota-is-practically-dead_dota/ | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
- Suggestions (x) - Balance Debates - Competitive Chat | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Balance Debates is ok too, the mods are fairly active in there and I can keep that discussion going in there so it won't drop off the front page. Suggestions is just no, too much fluff. Honestly though, I can just do what fragster did with Kuroky and spotlight you and your team since the Asian scene if fairly well-received at PD.com. | ||
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