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On October 11 2010 10:31 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 10:18 rabidch wrote:On October 11 2010 08:30 Judicator wrote:
Slow down ubermatt, unlike you, we actually have real game experience against top players, so you can keep your snide remarks to yourself. Difference between theorycrafting and our posts? We aren't theorycrafting.
Chronosphere isn't hard to place, I really don't know where you get that from. It's actually a hell of a lot more friendly than BH (considering all the shit involved with BH's shitty triggering, lol channel). It's certainly not one you pick for, but his ultimate with Aghs is nothing to scoff at. The Silencer pick sure, but it's Silencer, he's one dimensional, and certainly not game breaking.
SB I do agree with and you do need to design your lanes accordingly.
Mag, it's the Empower, everything else is just butter, his ulti isn't as bad as you're making it to be either. More often than not, I see players of all calibers in EEDL trying to get greedy with their aoe ultimates when just hitting 1 or 2 late game is all you need.
Edit:
The reason I bring up Void is because people moved away from originally how he was used way back in <27. Void+SandK bullshit, simply abusing the Chronosphere. LongDD cs-ing means shit, because that's not what I am advocating here. It's easier to place but the thing is 1-2 people in a Chronosphere isn't really optimal and getting 3+ people in is where it comes difficult. Not to pick at longdds terribad performance in those games (these are the games after which Dg.c and YaphetS quit CH), EHOME basically gunned their heroes to bail out heroes or fuck with Void in the Chronosphere with picks that are mostly not banned. Beastmaster, VS, ES, Pugna, Drow Game 1 and less conservative picks Game 2 with CM, ES, Drow, Alch, Storm (CH got VS and BM and bans were done outside game). All these picks are relatively great against most lineups so it's not necessarily counterpicking. Fair enough. However just to be clear I'm saying its not that hard to place in relation to other aspects of high[er] level play. Also why do you think getting 1-2 people in a chronosphere isn't optimal? I would think the entire point of using void in today's [ or not that long ago ] games would be to play him as a gank hero who can completely lock out heroes and allow his teammates or lane partner to beat on him as well. I mean wanting anything more than 1-2 enemies seems way too greedy. Do you consider a black hole that only gets 1-3 people not optimal as well? Also a good chronosphere does not only consist of how many enemies you get in it, but that + being able to position it so your teammates/lane partner have easy access to output damage. In your example, ignoring obvious skill differences, if a void was able to chrono any 2 out of BM, VS, ES, Pugna, Drow then it would be an easy push for a tower. It doesn't matter that the heroes picked are ones that are not banned often, because it doesn't effect how a good player would place the chrono.
maphawk makes it hard to get a positional advantage. long stuns and other disables (decrep). swaps/position movers(force staff, DS ,X , glimpse). picks these days are geared toward ranged heroes and melee heroes who can compensate for the fact that they are not ranged (doom, alch, kunkka, ES, BM, DK) therefore it is much harder to lock teams out
with black hole you don't have to worry about not getting teammates in it, and it does damage to enemies in it. a chrono can end up screwing your team as well, and many heroes aren't optimized to take advantage of the space chrono makes. black hole is much more generous. plus like you said enigma is not solely picked on his black hole but also his laning versatility, great disable, and early/mid game pushing power. void nearly lacks all that, what is the point of ganking aghs void when youre going to have a smaller impact than other heroes until the late game where you can still be screwed over because of the items you went? remember this is almost like carrying to gank people instead of hard carrying just because of the setup void has to take
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Maphawk will give you a positional advantage less than 30-40% of the time if the BM player is not in your lane. The phase of the game I am referring to is much earlier than what you seem to be referring to. Decrep does't disable you from being able to chrono. You can either time walk-in [ not preferred ] or gank like a normal hero. I mean chrono is essentially just a huge aoe stun that can lock your allies. It would be like a lina landing a stun while decrepified, not entirely impossible. Glimpse and X are not skills of BM, VS, ES, Pugna, Drow. Force staff will usually not be a first item. Chrono can screw your team, but it can also allow your team to have the same advantages as black hole, except at a much lower cool down and wider area and aghanim possibility. [ I think the area is wider ]
Believe me, I know void is mediocre and it would not be smart to try and incorporate him into a lineup. The actual placing of the chronosphere is not that difficult and if his other shortcomings were resolved, a void-based lineup would be playable. It's a pretty moot point I know, but I just see a lot of people talk about how things are impossible to land/place and that's all I wanted to point out with void and chronosphere. Unless you play games with people or see replays it would be hard to convince you through text alone.
The original point was:
On October 10 2010 13:25 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 12:43 Judicator wrote:
TB is being marginalized as long as Morph remains competitive, no reason to use TB over Morph.
OD is a shitty pick in general most of the time, a good last pick if the line ups work out.
Sniper doesn't work as well as some others in a trilane and him solo is just lol.
Think the most overlooked heroes right now are Invoker and Zeus, both of which make the popular 3-1-1 lineups cry.
Don't know why you still would run QoP over Puck never mind chain stunning, you can't disrupt the opponent's team fight at all. I'll take a good Puck, hell even THD, over QoP right now. She's just so, what the fuck is my item progression right now, Storm beats her out in most situations anyways so why.
Spiritbreaker, Chrono-based Void and Mag support are some things to look at. Empower in a trilane with the Mag half-ass pulling. Chronosphere is amazingly hard unless you force them in with DS or somebody like him. Mag has potential but his Empower only works on melee and is hardly good on ranged and only certain melee heroes work in Trilanes, Mag being not one of them (slow levels with no stun until ultimate, Skewer has awful cd).
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On October 11 2010 11:07 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 10:31 Ack1027 wrote:On October 11 2010 10:18 rabidch wrote:On October 11 2010 08:30 Judicator wrote:
Slow down ubermatt, unlike you, we actually have real game experience against top players, so you can keep your snide remarks to yourself. Difference between theorycrafting and our posts? We aren't theorycrafting.
Chronosphere isn't hard to place, I really don't know where you get that from. It's actually a hell of a lot more friendly than BH (considering all the shit involved with BH's shitty triggering, lol channel). It's certainly not one you pick for, but his ultimate with Aghs is nothing to scoff at. The Silencer pick sure, but it's Silencer, he's one dimensional, and certainly not game breaking.
SB I do agree with and you do need to design your lanes accordingly.
Mag, it's the Empower, everything else is just butter, his ulti isn't as bad as you're making it to be either. More often than not, I see players of all calibers in EEDL trying to get greedy with their aoe ultimates when just hitting 1 or 2 late game is all you need.
Edit:
The reason I bring up Void is because people moved away from originally how he was used way back in <27. Void+SandK bullshit, simply abusing the Chronosphere. LongDD cs-ing means shit, because that's not what I am advocating here. It's easier to place but the thing is 1-2 people in a Chronosphere isn't really optimal and getting 3+ people in is where it comes difficult. Not to pick at longdds terribad performance in those games (these are the games after which Dg.c and YaphetS quit CH), EHOME basically gunned their heroes to bail out heroes or fuck with Void in the Chronosphere with picks that are mostly not banned. Beastmaster, VS, ES, Pugna, Drow Game 1 and less conservative picks Game 2 with CM, ES, Drow, Alch, Storm (CH got VS and BM and bans were done outside game). All these picks are relatively great against most lineups so it's not necessarily counterpicking. Fair enough. However just to be clear I'm saying its not that hard to place in relation to other aspects of high[er] level play. Also why do you think getting 1-2 people in a chronosphere isn't optimal? I would think the entire point of using void in today's [ or not that long ago ] games would be to play him as a gank hero who can completely lock out heroes and allow his teammates or lane partner to beat on him as well. I mean wanting anything more than 1-2 enemies seems way too greedy. Do you consider a black hole that only gets 1-3 people not optimal as well? Also a good chronosphere does not only consist of how many enemies you get in it, but that + being able to position it so your teammates/lane partner have easy access to output damage. In your example, ignoring obvious skill differences, if a void was able to chrono any 2 out of BM, VS, ES, Pugna, Drow then it would be an easy push for a tower. It doesn't matter that the heroes picked are ones that are not banned often, because it doesn't effect how a good player would place the chrono. maphawk makes it hard to get a positional advantage. long stuns and other disables (decrep). swaps/position movers(force staff, DS ,X , glimpse). picks these days are geared toward ranged heroes and melee heroes who can compensate for the fact that they are not ranged (doom, alch, kunkka, ES, BM, DK) therefore it is much harder to lock teams out with black hole you don't have to worry about not getting teammates in it, and it does damage to enemies in it. a chrono can end up screwing your team as well, and many heroes aren't optimized to take advantage of the space chrono makes. black hole is much more generous. plus like you said enigma is not solely picked on his black hole but also his laning versatility, great disable, and early/mid game pushing power. void nearly lacks all that, what is the point of ganking aghs void when youre going to have a smaller impact than other heroes until the late game where you can still be screwed over because of the items you went? remember this is almost like carrying to gank people instead of hard carrying just because of the setup void has to take
Trust me, laning Void hasn't changed. 4300 gold isn't hard to farm through considering the pieces. Void's gonna go something like 0-20, but if he hits his chronosphere it won't matter, the Void itself is irrelevant.
The Void doesn't have to set anything up, Aghs just makes him "better", but it's not that bad. He could try to force team fights earlier in your favor before any of the other heroes. I didn't say he wasn't situational, but he's worth a look at for initiating/follow-up capacity.
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So I watched LGD vs EHOME...
And my god, I almost fell asleep even though it was pretty epic for 30 mins cumulative of the whole 90mins game LOL
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On October 11 2010 17:26 GazeRocker wrote:
So I watched LGD vs EHOME...
And my god, I almost fell asleep even though it was pretty epic for 30 mins cumulative of the whole 90mins game LOL
fucking seriously... first 60 were just terrible to watch.
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On October 11 2010 17:26 GazeRocker wrote:
So I watched LGD vs EHOME...
And my god, I almost fell asleep even though it was pretty epic for 30 mins cumulative of the whole 90mins game LOL
i dont even know why that was RR
wombo combo
HAPPY FEET
THAT AINT FALCO
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
WHERE U AT
yea epic dual bottle crow pinoy styling
(happyfeet vs roccat trust)
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lollll yeah double penguin -> double bottlecrow pinoy
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On October 11 2010 18:13 Nitrogen wrote:
lollll yeah double penguin -> double bottlecrow pinoy
they should have flying penguins in dota yeaaaa
i wish nightmare sheep was still gettable
How.Korea
vs.
LGD.sGty
3h26m
gl heendawg :D
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On October 11 2010 18:16 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 18:13 Nitrogen wrote:
lollll yeah double penguin -> double bottlecrow pinoy they should have flying penguins in dota yeaaaa i wish nightmare sheep was still gettable gl heendawg :D
10 min before the match and 1 of our players is missing :D
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Gotta work on that end game, dunno what your WR was doing after that nice mid game.
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1st game I felt like our execution was really poor which lead to an unkillable necro and a fat pugna.
2nd game, we did well, thanks to their sudden high ping at some point in the game but we didn't have an answer for storm instagibbing me or WR, which was game breaking.
We didn't pressure enough and some bad item choices cost us the game.
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Nv.My played really well, but anyone feel Nv.Cn got out picked?
Haven't seen game 2 yet.
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On October 12 2010 04:41 Mimus wrote:
Nv.My played really well, but anyone feel Nv.Cn got out picked?
Haven't seen game 2 yet.
the got pretty outpicked but not that outpicked, the way they played their picks has to do more with it
and this too
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/QefNu.jpg)
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On October 11 2010 09:37 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 06:28 GhostKorean wrote:
Durak, can you explain why elder parasite on TDL? Seems like a terrible item on someone so squishy (terrible item overall, even on chronos imo) I don't understand EP on TDL. Her charge gives her +75 attack speed without a debuff... I'd honestly rather see it on ranged carries who have ghostmarchers and need the attack speed (but not really that either...)
I'm finally back after the long weekend and a few pages late. Sorry GhostKorean!
I almost never get EP on anyone. I think that it's only really good on Chronos and still it depends on the game. I got it in this game because it's 1. much cheaper than a symbol of rage 2. I had shrunken head 3. I wanted to kill them as fast as possible. I was carrying without any team support and basically wanted to kill people as fast as possible (i.e. before shrunken runs out and they can team up on me).
As Pokebunny said, it isn't really needed by DL. I used the speed boost to help chase people but normally her one charge+slows are enough.
As Glull said, it's definitely not the best lifesteal item you can get on her. Whispering helm is better in pretty much every situation and abyssal skull is good.
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6.69: Where aoe Spirit Breaker happens.
Also have any of you played rooftrellen lately? That shit is fucking gay as fuck.
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Dirge
- Fixed over-sized click boundaries for Tombstone
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
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i just use the new item at the base of roshan then this happens..i cant control it anymore..
badluck i guess
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who here plays HoN from new zealand
looking for decent/average 1.0kd ish player to join me and my friend~
we play every night after work 8~9pm ish
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It's pretty quiet in the Clan Teamliquid channel and no officers in sight either. 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5717/investmentbanker.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Q2pTP.jpg)
