Are you interested in Stormgate and/or ZeroSpace?

On February 21 2024 19:14 Vindicare605 wrote:
I was interested in Stormgate. Until I played it. Maybe I'll be interested in it again sometime, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

On February 22 2024 22:25 WGT-Baal wrote:


I didnt think I would get attacked like that in the morning ;p I feel old now. I ll stick to BW al the way to the retirement home, we need to coordinate a TL retirement so we can LAN BW there

But yeah also bummed out they utterly wrecked WC3 reforged, i had high hopes for it and was ready to play with friends who dont play sc but love wc3 and wow.
Interested in those PvE RTS you mention btw, if you could compile a quick top 3 - top 5?

On February 23 2024 09:19 VelRa_G wrote:
ZS does a sufficient number of other things to make it feel very distinct from Starcraft. Macro feels completely different with its build queue and unit queue, controls are superior with merged command keys, formation drag, gameplay is distinct with XP towers, heroes (which are bread and butter early but then fade into support units later), talents, mercs, topbar, and flux being an important mid-map resource.

It awakens in me that old git gud tryhard spirit, long grown crusty since WoL BL infestor and HotS swarm hosts and mothership core. For some reason, Stormgate doesn't do this for me at all.

On February 23 2024 11:39 Manit0u wrote:


I don't doubt that but I just can't stop and wonder why does everyone seem to be doing just the same thing? Humans vs bugs + maybe one other faction.

If you're going to do that you could at least get a bit more creative, like Armies of Exigo by effectively merging Zerg and Protoss into a single race (warp-in buildings on a creep, bugs coupled with weird magical beings so you'd have something like zerglings and hydralisks backed up by high templars, archons etc.).

On February 24 2024 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:


That's part of the problem though. It feels too similar to SC2 while at the same time not being as fun as SC2. I'm doubly unmotivated to play it for that reason. If it was a different enough experience to SC2 I could justify still wanting to play it just so I could play something different, but literally every game I played of the SG beta, I had to ask myself midgame why am I playing this instead of another game of SC2?

If you're going to make a game play almost exactly like a game that already exists it needs to be definitively BETTER than the game it's competing with. It isn't.

There's a TON of RTS games out there that manage to play very differently from each other to the point where I can like one more than the others but still want to play each of them at different times because I like the variety. I don't have that feeling for SG. I found no reason to want to keep playing it after I played the beta because it just felt too similar to SC2 while not being as fun.

On February 24 2024 10:51 Fango wrote:

Crazy that Stormgate raised 4.5x as much (on a kickstarter than offered less) yet this thread is almost entirely people disliking it. I guess the expectation of "being the next Warcaft/Starcraft" is tough compared to "here's a new RTS game made by RTS players"

I will say having played the beta, Stormgate is pretty fun. It needs a lot of work in every department, but once you get into a game it doesn't feel far from playing SC2. I even think in some areas it's better (you spend more time fighting and micro'ing, and there's actually an early game).

Infest is a pretty cool idea, but there's no way that and veterancy don't get tuned down.

It's like wanting chocolate ice cream one day, and vanilla another. Sure they are both ice cream but they still can be enjoyed :D

On February 22 2024 10:23 Nasigil wrote:
They seems to have a solid framework of a good RTS game but I haven't seen anything that indicates it will be a "next gen RTS", nothing I've seen so far really couldn't be done 15 years ago. It's just something that really resembles a mix of SC2/WC3, almost like a mod. I will reserve my judgement until they actually showing promising progress.

On February 24 2024 18:00 Sentikoret wrote:


There is a trouble in your analogy - while playing games, you are the one who cooks. Game devs provide ingredients, but you need a skill to enjoy it. So more proper analogy would be a choice between chocolate ice cream that you know how to make and vanilla ice cream that needs a 500h in classes before you'll be able to make it as good aa the other one.

On February 26 2024 09:14 WGT-Baal wrote:
Actually I was happy to try and contribute during the alpha and also got to get back in touch with a few old school folks like Arew and wcg friends also like parting, but come beta my interest dipped hard as few changes were implemented and the biggest change was the internal macro mechanics which I hate.

So I will likely never play or watch it again.

So yes i like RTS but it doesn't mean i like all of them or should play all of them. SG feels like a UMS of sc2 to me, with a better netcode. I don't even play sc2 since lotv beta anyway, i guess i m a bw diehard.
I think i like a good story, so i liked bw and war3, even solo. Sc2 wol was ok in format with the mission on the ship, if not always in content. But it went downhill and lotv was just ridiculous. SG I have zero interest in the lore, it s just bland.
If i have time and motivation to play a newer rts it will probably be homeworld 3. Otherwise there are other genres anyway~

What I find a bit annoying in the communication and in most threads though is the pervasive idea that sc/war3 players are automatically going to play or try it just because some devs are the same or some variation of "wr oughta try it" and it irks me.
Make a good game, and then i ll play it, other people who don't play rts now might play it too if it's fun.

I had never tried a flight sim and got hooked by a friend a few years back and now i have thousand of hours in ED and mfs2020, and starting dcs now. Rts are no different, make it fun to play with friends and to watch too and people will join. SG doesn't seem there and keeps targeting the wrong demographic.

If we like war3/sc2/bw and still play it after a decade+ we re not gonna switch unless you release a masterpiece that feels original

On February 26 2024 09:55 WombaT wrote:


I wonder what the next big evolution of the genre will actually look like.

I’ve long dreamed of like some kind of proper big scale, persistent MMORTS, be it PvE or PvP focused, that’d be bloody cool.

I know some devs have dabbled, but if somebody properly nailed it it’d be a sick game. Play with your bros/broettes over some large theatre or war or campaign where you’re all merely generals in some wider war effort.

On February 26 2024 11:29 WGT-Baal wrote:


Yeah tbh i m not sure myself what i d like. But for example having never played the 2 precedent games, homeworld 3 feels interesting due to the 3d nature of it, so it s different. Wc3 and bw/sc2 played different too and they were thus both cool as well.

Or as you say may be a larger scale yeah where say you must take a planet or something and you can't see the other battlefields (in a team v team kinda way).

alternatively a XvX style where you re only in command of one type of units, for instance infantry vs air vs navy etc but you gotta work together. Maybe each of them has some macro to do, or needs to share some logistics in some fun way (fuel, food etc), or role sharing in resource gathering like infantry also mines resources, airforce and navy may deliver with cargo but you need to coordinate.
Or even one player is the logistics and interacts with every body else? And maybe they can have some recon or intel or spying to make it fun for them too in logistics and not plain macro. Not sure i m explaining that well lol, but a mix of rts and role-playing in a way where you re in charge of one cog in the war machine.

On February 26 2024 18:02 Harris1st wrote:


Not really on topic but based on your posting history I wanted to mention there is a Terminator RTS which should be interesting to you (in case you missed it). Was released 5 days ago I believe, it mostly (only?) singleplayer campaign with lots of micro management and a pause function.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/terminator-dark-fate-defiance/

On February 26 2024 11:43 Manit0u wrote:


I don't think we really need some big evolution. RTS is a rather specific genre that caters to a specific crowd. IMO there is no real need for some huge innovations that would change the landscape completely. What people need is just a solid RTS with good fundamentals. Then you can innovate by adding awesome single player campaign/story (this is important to also attract more casual people instead of targeting just hardcore competitive crows), sprinkle in some cool mechanics and factions and you're all good.

On February 26 2024 22:53 KingzTig wrote:

I have given up hope on it.

I think there's too much baggage with RTS, kind of like fighter genre facing the same issue.

Command cards, lots of info dump, long game length. MOBA is even more complex but many grew up with it and sticked around like how RTS was for us, and doesn’t even need a campaign.

For all the talks about beginner friendly, look at stormgate, which part of it really was more beginner friendly than SC2?

RTS spun off quite a few genres like tower defence and I would even argue rim world (resources simulators) is part of RTS subgenre.

There is only 3 games I would recommend to my non PC gamer friend, Warcraft 3 TFT, SC2 and battle of middle earth (1&2) and honestly it’s a bit depressing how short this list is

So many new players want to enjoy RTS with 20min no rush, but few will stick around once they find out that just isn’t how the game is to be played

On February 26 2024 09:55 WombaT wrote:


I wonder what the next big evolution of the genre will actually look like.

I’ve long dreamed of like some kind of proper big scale, persistent MMORTS, be it PvE or PvP focused, that’d be bloody cool.

I know some devs have dabbled, but if somebody properly nailed it it’d be a sick game. Play with your bros/broettes over some large theatre or war or campaign where you’re all merely generals in some wider war effort.

On February 27 2024 10:50 Liquid`Jinro wrote:


I have no idea what it was called, but back in the early 2000s there was some kind of MMORTS (very, very indie).
Kind of small scale in terms of units per side I wanna say. I barely played it (either couldn't get it to work or it cost money that young me didn't have maybe), so my recollection is really limited.

There were seasons, and a persistent like area control thing, with clans battling for them. I wanna say you had a really low unit count, maybe a hero unit of some sort. It was mega indie and didn't last all that long.

I think there were creeps a la WC3?

I only played it really, really briefly just before the game died.

On February 21 2024 19:14 Vindicare605 wrote:
I was interested in Stormgate. Until I played it. Maybe I'll be interested in it again sometime, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

On February 27 2024 03:36 Fango wrote:

They're pushing a lot of QoL and noob-friendly features, automatic hotkeys, quick build, supply blocks being much easier to fix, using 1234 and QWER keys similar to mobas and fps games. And there's a much higher time to kill than SC2, nothing one-shots in the game for example. I think they also mentioned implementing in-game guides. For a beginner it's definitely more friendly than SC2.

But all that is just for 1v1. The real factor for getting new players is coop. It was the most played game mode in sc2, even more so when the game got attention with f2p. People love coop games. I've met quite a few people irl who played sc2 coop but would never touch ladder. Coop is gonna be Stormgate's flagship gamemode despite most of the vocal community being 1v1 diehards.

Having 3v3 as a serious game mode with heroes and new win conditions could work out great as well. More like a moba but with armies.

On February 27 2024 12:26 Waxangel wrote:


Shattered Galaxy?

On February 27 2024 20:11 WombaT wrote:

That does sound pretty conceptually cool at least. But execution of the coolest ideas is bloody difficult. Star Citizen springs to mind, or I remember like 15+ years ago playing World War 2 online which was like a persistent environment on like a half/quarter scale of Europe. Be infantry, be part of an aircraft or a tank crew. Great when it worked, which it often didn’t.

Good to see you’re still floating around TL man!

On February 28 2024 00:43 Manit0u wrote:
There were also Savage and Savage 2. Quite innovative games that mixed MOBA, RTS and RPG elements. Basically most players took on a role of MOBA heroes and played them FPP/TPP on the ground, leveled up etc. and one player took on the role of commander and had top-down RTS view, workers to control, bases to build and provide buffs to the other players. Pretty neat concept and it was highly competitive but didn't have very big player base.

On March 01 2024 09:55 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Yeah, Grubby's content has been great on his talk channel. Feels quite unbiased, not afraid to critique but also clearly trying to be positive and open minded.

are you interested in Stormgate and/or ZeroSpace?

On March 02 2024 09:41 Waxangel wrote:
The official Tempest Rising Twitter account hasn't posted since November, but this tweet from the lead designer has me back on the hopium that the game will actually come out and didn't get the axe (parent company has been doing a bunch of layoffs and cancelations)

https://twitter.com/waywardstrategy/status/1763669233840411021

Posted Fri, December 8, 2023
Shifting the Release Date - Tempest Rising
Attention Commanders,

Since we released our demo on Steam, the feedback we have received from you has been tremendous. We couldn’t be more grateful for that!

This gave our team a great opportunity to approach several aspects of the game differently and change the scope of certain features based on your comments.

We are committed to releasing Tempest Rising at the highest quality possible, including a best-in-class PvP experience. To ensure we get there, we have decided we need more time to properly tweak and polish the game. This means that Tempest Rising will not release within 2023 as we have previously announced.

We’ve got some exciting plans in the works: From playtests and beta-testing to new videos and unit spotlights, our team is working on many things you can look forward to. So stay tuned, and thank you for your passionate and dedicated support of Tempest Rising!

On March 02 2024 10:40 SoleSteeler wrote:
When are we going to hear more about David Kim's RTS? Maybe that'll come out of nowhere and knock everyone's socks off...

On March 04 2024 19:47 Harris1st wrote:


There was (is?) a guy on TL posting a bunch of in-depth blogs about RTS design. Same guy?

Link to profile: https://tl.net/forum/profile.php?user=waywardstrategy

On March 12 2024 18:26 nforce wrote:
I do hope that at least upcoming RTS like StormGate and perhaps ZeroSpace include the ability to drop in on random ladder maps as an observer as well. Would be interesting to be able to select "Observe Diamond / Masters / GM" for example and jump into live games of people in certain league groups. Of course, people should be able to opt out of their games being observed by randoms but stuff like that would be great. And if more people observe a game, there should be text based or voip chat to discuss (again, opt in/out to avoid toxicity).

On March 12 2024 18:41 WombaT wrote:

Yeah 100%, basically whatever DoTA2 has done in this domain would be fantastic to see in a future RTS.

Maybe the boat has sailed for the foreseeable with Blizzard and Microsoft not doing it in latter-day LotV or AoE4 and if big AAA studios haven’t, it’s unrealistic for these smaller studios to replicate DoTA2’s full feature suite, but even a few of them would be great.

On March 12 2024 18:55 Miragee wrote:


I don't think Blizzard not doing it is a matter of "too much work". They are just apprehensive to these community-supporting features for whatever reason. I mean, they thought Bnet 2 wouldn't need chat rooms or something alike because????

On March 10 2024 01:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
the C&C franchise has 10,000+ concurrents on Steam. damn. How many people are playing C&C on Origin?

EA just called the remastered collection the "first remastered collection". This seems to hint at a 2nd remastered collection. EA is 100% aware of the popularity of the bootleg multiplayer servers for C&C3 and RA3.

I stickiness of Action/Strategy type games is fascinating. Before technology made the modern RTS possible there were Action/Strat games like Intellivision Utopia, NES/Apple2/Atari800/C64 M.U.L.E. that lasted forever.

The M.U.L.E. competitive community finally died some 30 years after the games release. I'm pretty sure the SC2 MULE was a tribute to the game.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/438210/MULE_Returns/

On March 10 2024 08:47 Fango wrote:

What's interesting is that RTS is probably the genre that, more than any other, players would benefit from seeing their advanced stats, being able to watch pro games in client, and having unit testers and practice modes.

Mobas and FPS games don't require the multitasking and prioritisation skills that RTS does. It's a shame sc2 never added stuff like that despite the communities best efforts with arcade maps and replay stats

On March 12 2024 20:34 JZTNGJGHGF wrote:

Where the fuck are the 10000+ on Steam?
The ENTIRE franchise has 25 Viewer on Twitch

Why do you keep on blowing this shit out of proportion just because they have some views on Youtube? If those games would be popular, they would have gone the way of Dota/Counter-Strike/DayZ

On March 12 2024 19:39 Velr wrote:
At the time plenty of games tried (or did) get rid of chatrooms. Basically it came down to them not wanting to moderate them.

On March 13 2024 01:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Rather than imagining a perfect world I just pick amongst a series of imperfect choices and have fun. The nanosecond I start to get bored.. i stop playing and follow the Grubby rule of gaming and I do something else.

Over the years, I find this approach to video games much healthier. The industry is not here to serve all your needs. It is here to take whatever spare money you have away from you. That is its only purpose.

https://tl.net/forum/general/540389-the-games-industry-and-atvi?page=56］The video game industry is scum and it has been since its inception. It is good to keep that in mind when playing video games.

LOL, awesome first post.
10,000 people were playing the C&C games on Steam the day of the sale. C&C is the #1 non Blizzard RTS franchise.

Right now, on Steam Red Alert 3 alone has 1,100 players.

Because EA killed the C&C servers and did not create support for Steam multiplayer people play competitive multiplayer on community run servers.

C&C is a great franchise. Dustin Browder was the lead game designer of Red Alert 2. Dude is a game design genius.

On March 13 2024 02:05 WombaT wrote:
Have we had good RTS games since? Sure. Have we had great ones, at least in the niche that SC2 covers? Honestly I’d say no.

Take any other field. A musical genre. A style of filmmaking. If the collective producers don’t produce a genuinely great example of that genre for what, 13 years how are you meant to accurately assess the appetite for said thing?

On March 13 2024 02:05 WombaT wrote:
I hope you don’t take that as an insult, more a humourous observation.

On March 13 2024 03:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I do not think RTS is "doomed". Hell, EA NHL '94 competitive play is still happening 31 years after the game was released. if EA NHL '94 can live on... so will RTS.

I am not proposing zero new RTS games get made. However, I am not expecting any single RTS game, past or future or present, to meet my every entertainment need.

I am expecting a procession of imperfect options and I will pick the one that best fits me.

At this point RTS is a niche genre and Starcraft2 is a niche within a niche.

It is hard to assess the appettite for RTS. However, I think there is a demand for RTS games. All kinds of RTS games are being played on Steam right now. Red Alert 3 is a 3 diverse faction game with intense micro battles similar to STarcraft. it has 1,300 people playing single player right now.

Why would anyone want to go head-to-head with SC2? The game is great and the players complain about everything, all the time. THe last game to take a serious run at SC2 was also designed by Tim Morten. C&C Generals 2. That ended ugly.

And the #s for Stormgate ain't lookin' too good. Of course, rather than disagreeing with me on here in a forum post... you have every opportunity to let your $$$ speak louder than your words ever could. Invest in Frost GIant and get onto the ground floor of a great opportunity.

Its all good. I do not report non-advertising posts. relax and Fire away with disagreements.