You don't need a Frost Giant with negative $2 million in the bank and Unreal 5 and "SnowPlay" to make a tower defense game. You need $0, a copy of Unity or Godot or even GameMaker Studio, and a couple of students with some free time.
Technically you're right, but to the level I'm talking you absolutely do. To make a moba u need some students like the old dota mods, or to make a autobattler u just need the same thing. But if you want it to hit a certain quality level you need more experienced devs and a proper team with funding. That's how all these genres took off from grass roots projects and billion dollar companies saw potential in them. Riot games is the perfect example with the auto battler. You obviously had tons of mobas. You even had Mechabellun which pretty much came about from Direct Strike. Of all those, I think tower defense could use some love and a budget next. But that might just be me. Idk. Look at even bloons...
But the entire problem with Stormgate was that the team failed to hit an acceptable quality level on any aspect of game development. Whether it was the worldbuilding, the writing, the visuals, the gameplay, or the sound design, everything was of terrible quality.
Why on Earth would a second game from Frost Giant be any different?
Now that the Stormgate servers are offline and no more multiplayer of any kind is possible, a curious thing has happened:
The latest weekend peak on SteamDB was about 80% of the number of players a week earlier, and the average is about the same!
None of these people are playing 1v1, or co-op, or custom vs. games, because those no longer exist. They are all either playing the campaign, or skirmishes versus AI (which apparently are super buggy because none of the updates in the Community Patch were tested and they broke a lot of the vs. AI logic)
What this seems to be saying is either:
1. There were only a literal handful of players in the entire world who were playing the vaunted 1v1 mode, you know, the one that Frost Giant spent so much of their time and focus on, or
2. There are a few dozen or so players who simply refuse to play anything else in the world except Stormgate. Now that 1v1 and co-op is gone, they are just going into the game and playing skirmishes against a broken AI, because they have nothing else to do.
I suppose there could be option 3, that the majority of players of Stormgate are just bots who are there for unknown purposes, but I don't know how to confirm or deny that.
probably just got a small bump because people were talking about the shutdown so like 20 people decided to check out the game again that they already owned.
You don't need a Frost Giant with negative $2 million in the bank and Unreal 5 and "SnowPlay" to make a tower defense game. You need $0, a copy of Unity or Godot or even GameMaker Studio, and a couple of students with some free time.
Technically you're right, but to the level I'm talking you absolutely do. To make a moba u need some students like the old dota mods, or to make a autobattler u just need the same thing. But if you want it to hit a certain quality level you need more experienced devs and a proper team with funding. That's how all these genres took off from grass roots projects and billion dollar companies saw potential in them. Riot games is the perfect example with the auto battler. You obviously had tons of mobas. You even had Mechabellun which pretty much came about from Direct Strike. Of all those, I think tower defense could use some love and a budget next. But that might just be me. Idk. Look at even bloons...
But the entire problem with Stormgate was that the team failed to hit an acceptable quality level on any aspect of game development. Whether it was the worldbuilding, the visuals, the gameplay, or the sound design, everything was of terrible quality.
Why on Earth would a second game from Frost Giant be any different?
There’s a world where Frost Giant were sitting around with their 40 million dollars of funding, and an indie team with a great idea who’d love to push their nascent game with a killer idea to the next level if only they had the budget were both sitting around musing next to each other and went ‘ahah!’ and team up
We’re not in that world. Frost Giant spaffed away one of, if not thebiggest RTS budgets since SC2 on Stormgate
On May 05 2026 03:56 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Now that the Stormgate servers are offline and no more multiplayer of any kind is possible, a curious thing has happened:
The latest weekend peak on SteamDB was about 80% of the number of players a week earlier, and the average is about the same!
None of these people are playing 1v1, or co-op, or custom vs. games, because those no longer exist. They are all either playing the campaign, or skirmishes versus AI (which apparently are super buggy because none of the updates in the Community Patch were tested and they broke a lot of the vs. AI logic)
What this seems to be saying is either:
1. There were only a literal handful of players in the entire world who were playing the vaunted 1v1 mode, you know, the one that Frost Giant spent so much of their time and focus on, or
2. There are a few dozen or so players who simply refuse to play anything else in the world except Stormgate. Now that 1v1 and co-op is gone, they are just going into the game and playing skirmishes against a broken AI, because they have nothing else to do.
I suppose there could be option 3, that the majority of players of Stormgate are just bots who are there for unknown purposes, but I don't know how to confirm or deny that.
Either way, it's not great.
Someone said they got 6-7k hours in stormgate. Yes, 6 to 7000 hours.
On May 05 2026 04:01 iamperfection wrote: probably just got a small bump because people were talking about the shutdown so like 20 people decided to check out the game again that they already owned.
This seems to be the most reasonable answer. People read about the shutdown and wanted to see for themselves
On May 05 2026 04:01 iamperfection wrote: probably just got a small bump because people were talking about the shutdown so like 20 people decided to check out the game again that they already owned.
This seems to be the most reasonable answer. People read about the shutdown and wanted to see for themselves
I agree that this is probably the correct answer. But we'll see if these people hang around.
Stormgate Archives is still broadcasting games on Twitch! But they are replays of older games, since, obviously, you can't cast new matches any more. That level of stubbornness is kind of impressive, to be honest.
Thus far the only breakdown I’ve heard about the proposed ‘Team Mayhem’ killer/game saving mode, from someone on the latest. Quite interesting.
It doesn’t sound like even if they pulled funding out of their arse, that they really had stuff working at a fundamental design level.
If Itano’s read is correct it actually sounds less dynamic, less improvisational and even more punishing and lacking comeback mechanics than 1v1
Which is quite impressive really. I’ve been playing a bunch of The Finals with kiddo lately, as with any semi-big game you’ve got a pretty rigid meta at the top level, but lower down there’s still a lot of crazy improvisational fun to be had.
The problems with it sound beyond balance, just very core issues of fun as game design, something Stormgate has generally struggled with.
They’ve seemingly perpetually struggled to add some extra element(s) beyond the classic Blizzard formula, but they (rightly) want to have anti-snowball mechanics. Except those mechanics tended to either not be fun, or actually ended up being snowballing mechanics themselves.
So say creeping, cos we need creeps is a thing to give it some ‘identity’. But it’s kinda pointless. But then we buff it so they’re worthwhile, but then whoever has early map control can just farm so their advantage compounds. So then we get Stormgates which are less snowbally, but in ways frustrating.
Two of my top 5 all-time games are WC3 and SC2, they have some of these elements but it doesn’t feel as aggravating. SC2 is a straight 1v1, no-frills mechanical slugfest, it is what it is. WC3, there’s a lot of complexity added by the hero/creep/items and those systems all work together. Shit item luck feels bad, but you might get good, and the difference isn’t settling lower level games. It adds some fluidity too, one might pivot to a new plan depending on your drops or your opponent’s, but in a way that feels considered and interesting. WC3 having greater map variety helped too.
There’s just nout with that with Stormgate, there’s nothing interesting there.
Team mayhem was just a shitty custom map, really, don't put too much thought into it. You can call it concept of a game mode, yes, but nothing more. It was something one map maker could make in a couple of days in WC3/SC2/DotA2 editor. There are much better custom maps in these games.
On May 06 2026 02:43 ChillFlame wrote: Team mayhem was just a shitty custom map, really, don't put too much thought into it. You can call it concept of a game mode, yes, but nothing more. It was something one map maker could make in a couple of days in WC3/SC2/DotA2 editor. There are much better custom maps in these games.
Clearly Frost Giant didn't put that much thought into it!
The problems with the map seem pretty obvious, and it's telling that Frost Giant was completely unable to deal with them, or even understand what they were. Which was insane, because the company promoted Team Mayhem to both investors and customers as this amazing, world-changing, ground-breaking RTS game mode that was going to revitalize the genre.
Even more insane was how they slapped everyone who tried it with an NDA, just so they wouldn't be able to say what a massive disappointment it was. And they only bothered to lift the NDA once the game was already confirmed to be shutting down.
Truly it was an example of IDT, or idiocy-driven development(tm).
On May 06 2026 02:43 ChillFlame wrote: Team mayhem was just a shitty custom map, really, don't put too much thought into it. You can call it concept of a game mode, yes, but nothing more. It was something one map maker could make in a couple of days in WC3/SC2/DotA2 editor. There are much better custom maps in these games.
Clearly Frost Giant didn't put that much thought into it!
The problems with the map seem pretty obvious, and it's telling that Frost Giant was completely unable to deal with them, or even understand what they were. Which was insane, because the company promoted Team Mayhem to both investors and customers as this amazing, world-changing, ground-breaking RTS game mode that was going to revitalize the genre.
Even more insane was how they slapped everyone who tried it with an NDA, just so they wouldn't be able to say what a massive disappointment it was. And they only bothered to lift the NDA once the game was already confirmed to be shutting down.
Truly it was an example of IDT, or idiocy-driven development(tm).
On May 06 2026 02:43 ChillFlame wrote: Team mayhem was just a shitty custom map, really, don't put too much thought into it. You can call it concept of a game mode, yes, but nothing more. It was something one map maker could make in a couple of days in WC3/SC2/DotA2 editor. There are much better custom maps in these games.
Clearly Frost Giant didn't put that much thought into it!
The problems with the map seem pretty obvious, and it's telling that Frost Giant was completely unable to deal with them, or even understand what they were. Which was insane, because the company promoted Team Mayhem to both investors and customers as this amazing, world-changing, ground-breaking RTS game mode that was going to revitalize the genre.
Even more insane was how they slapped everyone who tried it with an NDA, just so they wouldn't be able to say what a massive disappointment it was. And they only bothered to lift the NDA once the game was already confirmed to be shutting down.
Truly it was an example of IDT, or idiocy-driven development(tm).
On May 06 2026 02:43 ChillFlame wrote: Team mayhem was just a shitty custom map, really, don't put too much thought into it. You can call it concept of a game mode, yes, but nothing more. It was something one map maker could make in a couple of days in WC3/SC2/DotA2 editor. There are much better custom maps in these games.
Clearly Frost Giant didn't put that much thought into it!
The problems with the map seem pretty obvious, and it's telling that Frost Giant was completely unable to deal with them, or even understand what they were. Which was insane, because the company promoted Team Mayhem to both investors and customers as this amazing, world-changing, ground-breaking RTS game mode that was going to revitalize the genre.
Even more insane was how they slapped everyone who tried it with an NDA, just so they wouldn't be able to say what a massive disappointment it was. And they only bothered to lift the NDA once the game was already confirmed to be shutting down.
Truly it was an example of IDT, or idiocy-driven development(tm).
So it was just like the rest of Stormgate then...
I think it's a different case.
Most of SG is like that because they tried to copy already existing RTS games, but lacked competence to do it properly.
Team Mayhem was something they tried to invent by themselves. So they lacked competence in both fields, ideas and implementation. That's why it was much worse. It's obvious, because they shut down the whole thing after the first round of closed alpha testing, and never returned to it again.
Also, it's obvious they haven't put any resources in this. I don't have any development info, but it felt like it was made by 3 people in their free time. For example, stuff like Azeroth Grand Prix looked a lot better.
I think the idea of 3v3 team Mayhem or whatever you want to call it in general is a good concept. Bring the MOBA community and the RTS community closer together. Bring some makro elements to MOBA and some more mirco / hero elements to RTS. But as with everything else, Frostgiant had no idea what to do and how to do it.
The whole thing looks like it was put together by Tim himself (he is the only signature and only executive officer listed in the document, as CEO, CFO, Secretary, Treasurer, Production Director, and Board Member) and there are a bunch of really startling revelations inside:
Total operating expenses decreased significantly from $15.5M in 2024 to approximately $4.2M in 2025. This reduction was primarily driven by: Headcount reductions following the initial launch period Lower salaries and related expenses (from ~$8.3M in 2024 to ~$2.4M in 2025)
Tim was very cagey talking about "possible layoffs" and people were clearly told to obfuscate their employment history on LinkedIn. But these numbers show that the company must have been gutted even before the August "launch". The company was spending over $1.1 million a month in 2024, with 50 employees, and one-quarter of that in 2025. Even if everyone was laid off in August, the salaries for the first three quarters of the year would still have been massive. We can do the math to estimate that if Frost Giant had 50 employees in 2024, they could have only had sixteen employees in 2025.
The Company entered into a $2,000,000 Silicon Valley Bank venture debt facility in 2024. As of December 31, 2025, $1,866,667 remains outstanding. This debt is senior to all other debt.
Creditor: Tim Morten Amount Owed: $487,000 The CEO provided a personal loan to the Company that remains outstanding
This is just mind-blowing. Tim Morten "loaned" (essentially gave) nearly half a million dollars from his own pocket to keep Frost Giant running in 2025. Now, he was earning a salary of $250,000 per year starting in 2020, so even though he stopped taking a salary in 2024 he had still earned $1 million from Frost Giant over this time. But still! This is a delusion on a massive scale, to the point where I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy. His friends really should have done an intervention for him long ago.
Revenue Steam Sales: $4,091 (December 2025) $191,170 (All of 2025)
Cost of Goods Sold Steam Fees $1,694 (December 2025) $106,934 (All of 2025) Engineering Infrastructure Expense $6,453 (December 2025) $263,588 (All of 2025)
Operating Expenses Salaries and Benefits ($7,200) NEGATIVE SALARIES??? (December 2025) $2,370,168 (All of 2025)
New Operating Losses ($21,178) (December 2025) ($4,034,345) (All of 2025)
Stockholder's Equity Retained Earnings (Deficit) ($39,938,335) Net Income (Loss) ($4,159,864)
There is a lot to unpack here. As predicted based on Steam stats, the game earned only about $190,000 in sales from all of 2025, including the "launch". But the Steam fees of $107,000 are perplexing. Steam only takes 30% of income, but here the Steam fees are more than half? I want to know what's happening here.
Also note that the incredible "Community Patch" in December garnered only slightly over $4,000 in sales, minus Steam fees that was about $2,400, and yet the server costs ("Engineering Infrastructure Expense) for that month was over $6,000.
This really explains why the "Oh noes Hathora is pivoting to AI what is a smol company to do" line was such bullshit. They were paying more money for server hosting and server infrastructure (remember they also used pragma.gg to do ladder matchmaking, user logins, and other server functions) than they ever earned in game income.
From the shareholder equity statements we can see that, in total, $44 million dollars went to fund Stormgate. In terms of sales, they made less than $2 million in total. And this is with $2 million in hard debt to Silicon Valley Bank that must still be repaid. For their big "launch" last year, the company made just $191,170 but spent $581,162 on cost of goods, before even counting employee salaries. The servers alone cost $263,588. Overall the company lost $4 million in 2025, after having raised $40 million to develop their game.
The numbers included $500,000 or so for 2025 in "deferred revenue". A sharp-eyed Redditor figured out that this was from a license fee somehow squeezed out of its main investor Kakao Group for the rights to the Korean version of the game, as per the 2024 SEC filing, an accounting trick that, if it hadn't been utilized, would have made the numbers even more dire.
Any other company would have done the obvious thing and folded after this launch. Yet Tim is still out there frantically throwing together spreadsheets and preparing financial records with ChatGPT while performing all the duties of the company as its only employee. Tim is not only not getting paid but has paid half a million dollars of his own money for this privilege.
Tim Morten wrote on May 6, 2026: While losses improved materially due to cost reductions, revenue from game sales remains insufficient to support ongoing operating expenses. As of December 31, 2025, the Company had $131,442 in cash, compared to $25,105 at December 31, 2024, reflecting financing activity during the year. The Company continues to rely on external financing and is actively seeking new projects and funding sources to sustain operations.
He's still dreaming of "new projects and funding sources".
well for all the, justified, shit you can pile on Tim for this 40 million dollar clusterfuck, gotta admit he believed his own hype to put half a million into something that everyone could tell you from the earliest screenshots was going to sink.
On May 08 2026 04:26 Gorsameth wrote: well for all the, justified, shit you can pile on Tim for this 40 million dollar clusterfuck, gotta admit he believed his own hype to put half a million into something that everyone could tell you from the earliest screenshots was going to sink.
Right? I don't know whether it's just sunk cost fallacy in operation, or Tim just being unable to let go of this particular dream of owning his own company and being the Big Boss, but either way it's tragic.
if you read through voidlegacy's comments it's obvious he was a True Believer in the project. which is baffling considering how bad it was. just take the cash and run like the other Tim, Tim
On May 08 2026 05:42 townhouse wrote: if you read through voidlegacy's comments it's obvious he was a True Believer in the project. which is baffling considering how bad it was. just take the cash and run like the other Tim, Tim
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/szhL3ZP.png)
