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On July 08 2024 07:47 MegaBuster wrote:Just for posterity the final prophecy of the Stormheads is that there are 500k people on this steam wishlist who are waiting for the date to come. At which point they will show up en masse to play and buy in such quantity that they will usher in the 2nd RTS renaissance. Said people don't really talk about the game, look at any beta games, don't tweet, don't chat, but they the silent majority are lurking and ready to emerge like a million zombie JFK Juniors for August 13th. Let's just get that in ink for the archivists.
Your links all tell me you are trolling, but I'd believe people actually think like this. Now do I think player numbers will be higher on release than ever before? Yes. Of course. But not like you describe it 😂
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Did I miss a memo where every text that has a mocking/satirical/cynical/hyperbolic sentiment is now just "trolling"? I don't really take MegaBuster's posts all that serioisly, but he does have something to say sometimes. Other than that, I mostly let his creative spirit run free and enjoy what he can curl out of his fingers, if it's not some GPT prompted simulacrum of a someone at least.
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On July 08 2024 15:56 Uldridge wrote:
Did I miss a memo where every text that has a mocking/satirical/cynical/hyperbolic sentiment is now just "trolling"? I don't really take MegaBuster's posts all that serioisly, but he does have something to say sometimes. Other than that, I mostly let his creative spirit run free and enjoy what he can curl out of his fingers, if it's not some GPT prompted simulacrum of a someone at least.
I think it's more a sentiment to the posters history than the current post with MiniBuster.
Btw do I have this right that SG goes live right after EWC? That is some impeccable timing
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On July 08 2024 17:09 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2024 15:56 Uldridge wrote:
Did I miss a memo where every text that has a mocking/satirical/cynical/hyperbolic sentiment is now just "trolling"? I don't really take MegaBuster's posts all that serioisly, but he does have something to say sometimes. Other than that, I mostly let his creative spirit run free and enjoy what he can curl out of his fingers, if it's not some GPT prompted simulacrum of a someone at least. Btw do I have this right that SG goes live right after EWC? That is some impeccable timing
I believe it's before EWC, no?
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Early Access releases August 13th, the day before the SC2 EWC. It comes out earlier for those who supported the Kickstarter however
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On July 08 2024 18:58 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2024 17:09 Harris1st wrote:On July 08 2024 15:56 Uldridge wrote:
Did I miss a memo where every text that has a mocking/satirical/cynical/hyperbolic sentiment is now just "trolling"? I don't really take MegaBuster's posts all that serioisly, but he does have something to say sometimes. Other than that, I mostly let his creative spirit run free and enjoy what he can curl out of his fingers, if it's not some GPT prompted simulacrum of a someone at least. Btw do I have this right that SG goes live right after EWC? That is some impeccable timing I believe it's before EWC, no?
Awww shoot had the start of SC2 EWC mixed up. It's right when I'm goin on vacation so I can't even watch....  ((
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Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race?
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I think that Q&A is based off of the AMA from a few weeks ago. Still good to watch a video of some of the answers if you missed it before.
I'm glad this month is going by pretty quickly for me - it'll be nice when the game goes into EA and we can finally see how things go.
I'm very curious (and hopeful) to see how this initial launch goes.
Nothing quite like the feeling of playing a new RTS. (Although many of us have already played, of course!)
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I just hope they have anti-cheat in place good this time, last time around was worrying. I hate playing ladder and running into cheaters constantly.
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On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? The are 'funded until early access' so yes. Money is running low and they need income
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I think it was a huge misstep to go from an open beta to minimal gameplay being shown/experienced for what is ~6months now. Feels like all the wind was taken out of their sails.
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On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race?
It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good.
The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast.
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What do you think that 'working with the community' would be? They unsealed the Storm-files recently so you can walk through all the beta feedback discussions. Here's the most (and perhaps only) serious one from the last beta cycle.
'Feedback from 16 top players on ladder'
https://discord.com/channels/1101590942076653660/1243574616161521726/1243574616161521726
The opening post here is a summary of a survey sent out to top ladder players. Its enormous and useless, just laden with milquetoast PC appraisals. Its like having to watch 100 of those bad post-victory NFL player interviews consecutively. ('both teams played hard' 'both teams played hard' 'both teams played hard'.)
Lorimbo — a top player who was not polled, weighs in later in the thread. I think Lorimbo is great. He is an up and comer who has suffered from SC2 being at its media saturation point, and he stands to break out with any new RTS game that does not suck. I think this gives him a tension and desperate honesty since he wants the next game to not suck. He made the best Stormgate podcast and has lots of lively incisive things to say.
Look at this part:
https://discord.com/channels/1101590942076653660/1243574616161521726/1243657828338503750
Lorimbo wrote:
- complexity is probably there in the worst possible way, by a bunch of clunky gimmicky units that don't synergize(sic) but have a lot of complexity by itself. As for skill ceiling, it's hard to say when the game it's in such a terrible state that at any point in time in any matchup it feels like one player has the upper hand by default
- i played around 50ish games iirc, my impression was that unless the game severely changes for the better, i see no point in playing it and this game will be held up by pure hype despite being bad.
- I think celestial are one of the worst design abberrations i've ever seen, they tried so hard to make a unique race that they ended up with a bunch of random gimmicks that contradict normal rts rules(which is not necessarly a bad thing) but provide little to no benefit for that, while having plenty of downsides.
- I only played infernal this patch, and i would rate it a 0
Of course Lorimbo is met with toxic positivity and shitlording as it's the Stormgate community after all but I'm more interested with how Frost Giant themselves are oriented towards feedback. In public the only person who engages with feedback really is monk, and well good for him, but he's super cagey and insecure in this case. Beyond that there's barely any developer interactions with feedback at all across the whole beta phase.
If that's going to be their engagement style for early access I reckon there's not much substance to them citing Larian and their process. I encourage people to go investigate what that actually looked like. Larian descended to their communities level with many voices present and they used a much more comfortable and interested engagement style. It was real care not fake care.
Also from that discussion look at these time frames for making stuff, doesn't this pop your eyes out?
Monk on how long the third faction was developed for:i could give lots of answers about this, and i think none of them would give you the full picture without going into more specifics; somewhere between 2-6 months, with the vast majority being in the last 2 months is the most accurate answer i could give without going further
What is even going on with that? Why is everything so truncated and so last minute? I have no clue what they get up to really.
Reading that whole discussion turned my brain into spaghetti and I had to suck it back into my head.
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On July 10 2024 02:27 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good. The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast.
Honestly it's just an excuse to release another unfinished game. and it seems like a really bad idea.
It is almost impossible to make a good, long-standing RTS this way.
Once it launches into EA, everyone who is mildly interested will give it a go, see how much of an unfinished mess it is, and quit, and if not, then they will stay, play for a month or so, and then quit. Nobody will be there, willing to play, when the game is actually "ready"
If you want to use this model, you need a dedicated community and a game that has its fundamentals down at the very least and, more importantly, already is fun to play, neither of which Stormgate has.
Also, listening to that dev podcast is terrifying. We're a month from launch and they're not even final on their art direction, amongst other baffling things.. crazy.
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Northern Ireland25451 Posts
On July 10 2024 16:01 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2024 02:27 Fango wrote:On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good. The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast. Honestly it's just an excuse to release another unfinished game. and it seems like a really bad idea. It is almost impossible to make a good, long-standing RTS this way. Once it launches into EA, everyone who is mildly interested will give it a go, see how much of an unfinished mess it is, and quit, and if not, then they will stay, play for a month or so, and then quit. Nobody will be there, willing to play, when the game is actually "ready" If you want to use this model, you need a dedicated community and a game that has its fundamentals down at the very least and, more importantly, already is fun to play, neither of which Stormgate has. Also, listening to that dev podcast is terrifying. We're a month from launch and they're not even final on their art direction, amongst other baffling things.. crazy.
First impressions count a lot. If I have a disastrous first date where she’s bored I’m not getting a call back for round 2. If we have a generally good time, even if a few of my jokes don’t land or I make some faux pas, yeah then I’ll likely be grand.
For me early access tends to only work if it’s an interesting, novel style of game whose base concept grabs people, and buys the time to polish the product. Or it’s a title from a studio with an established rep, or working on a beloved IP, or both.
Frost Giant don’t have either, their best pitch is something iterative and familiar with a few twists. Which can, and has produced many a great game. But if you’re going for the spiritual successor angle, aren’t reinventing the wheel then if you’re going to reveal it early it better have some of that polish.
I don’t think going into EA with the game as it is was ever the plan, one may speculate as to why. Going in EA was, sure, but with a build in the vague ballpark of how WoL’s multiplayer was in beta and to do some tweaks in response to the play testing you can only get by unleashing it to 1000s of creative minds, much more important in RTS than most genres due to emergent gameplay.
Instead they’re going in at a phase where the third faction is at a stage where its fundamentals are still being spitballed out, which is pretty concerning.
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On July 10 2024 16:01 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2024 02:27 Fango wrote:On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good. The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast. Honestly it's just an excuse to release another unfinished game. and it seems like a really bad idea. It is almost impossible to make a good, long-standing RTS this way. Once it launches into EA, everyone who is mildly interested will give it a go, see how much of an unfinished mess it is, and quit, and if not, then they will stay, play for a month or so, and then quit. Nobody will be there, willing to play, when the game is actually "ready" If you want to use this model, you need a dedicated community and a game that has its fundamentals down at the very least and, more importantly, already is fun to play, neither of which Stormgate has. Also, listening to that dev podcast is terrifying. We're a month from launch and they're not even final on their art direction, amongst other baffling things.. crazy. It is an unfinished game, yeah. That's what "early access" means. I am not sure what your point is. If you want a polished game with a ton of content, wait until 1.0.
I also don't understand how you could interprete what they said in the AMA as them not having decided on their art direction. They said they chose a stylized artstyle and that is not going to change but things will be improved/polished because (again), it is not a finished game.
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On July 10 2024 20:01 _Spartak_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2024 16:01 abuse wrote:On July 10 2024 02:27 Fango wrote:On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good. The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast. Honestly it's just an excuse to release another unfinished game. and it seems like a really bad idea. It is almost impossible to make a good, long-standing RTS this way. Once it launches into EA, everyone who is mildly interested will give it a go, see how much of an unfinished mess it is, and quit, and if not, then they will stay, play for a month or so, and then quit. Nobody will be there, willing to play, when the game is actually "ready" If you want to use this model, you need a dedicated community and a game that has its fundamentals down at the very least and, more importantly, already is fun to play, neither of which Stormgate has. Also, listening to that dev podcast is terrifying. We're a month from launch and they're not even final on their art direction, amongst other baffling things.. crazy. It is an unfinished game, yeah. That's what "early access" means. I am not sure what your point is. If you want a polished game with a ton of content, wait until 1.0. I also don't understand how you could interprete what they said in the AMA as them not having decided on their art direction. They said they chose a stylized artstyle and that is not going to change but things will be improved/polished because (again), it is not a finished game.
Isn't the whole problem that a lot of people who would like to wait for 1.0 are needed at EA, and they have to buy stuff in this incomplete game, or the studio goes out of business before getting anywhere near 1.0?
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Some people are needed, sure. They just have to hope there are enough people who will play and spend money on a game with rough edges to make it to 1.0. They don't have the sort of money it would take to make a game with this sort of scope and not monetize it before it is a polished, feautre-complete game. It is what it is.
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On July 10 2024 16:01 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2024 02:27 Fango wrote:On July 09 2024 21:58 abuse wrote:
Not gonna lie, it looks like a super bad sign that they are releasing the game so soon. Is it the monetary difficulties that were rumored lately?
There is no way the game is ready, considering the playtests we got not long ago and with that absolutely terrible design of the 3rd race? It was their model from the start to go into EA for the final year or so of development. They mentioned inspiration from studios like Larian, who enter EA with games a long long way from being finished, and work with the community to make them good. The real hurdle for them currently is finishing the editor. Once they have the engine and editor running how they want the game can improve very fast. Honestly it's just an excuse to release another unfinished game. and it seems like a really bad idea. It is almost impossible to make a good, long-standing RTS this way. Once it launches into EA, everyone who is mildly interested will give it a go, see how much of an unfinished mess it is, and quit, and if not, then they will stay, play for a month or so, and then quit. Nobody will be there, willing to play, when the game is actually "ready" If you want to use this model, you need a dedicated community and a game that has its fundamentals down at the very least and, more importantly, already is fun to play, neither of which Stormgate has. Also, listening to that dev podcast is terrifying. We're a month from launch and they're not even final on their art direction, amongst other baffling things.. crazy.
You could say that about any game that's had an EA period? They always suck and are unfinished at first, but the community feedback means when the game finally releases it's better than it could have otherwise been.
"you need a dedicated community and a fun game" They have both of those. The gameplay is fun and the RTS community has been invested in every playtests so far.
Frost Giant would otherwise need to do years of internal playtests and not be earning any money during this period. Blizzard managed it because they had infinite money from wow and other games coming in.
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EPT
