Described as a "shooter with swords," this game is, for me, the coolest thing to come out of the last two E3s. Play as a Knight, Viking, or Samurai and duel with a unique combat system "The Art of Battle." Attacks and blocking is directional, so if you see your enemy shifting their sword right, you'd better block that way. You can also bodyslam, pommel-strike, throw a knife, or call for archers if you want to even the odds a little. The combat feels extremely physical and visceral, with a weight to one's weapons and motions that most games lack.
The game is multiplayer at its core, but does have a campaign where you play as a nameless hero from each of the three factions. In normal games, you play shooter modes (e.g. point capture) while streams of AI grunts give the game a bit of that MOBA feel. The campaign can be played co-op, and is meant as an entry point to the multiplayer.
Lock on combat. You pick a stance: left, right, or top. Your enemy does too. You can shift back and forth, and the idea is to either avoid their stance and attack to score a hit, or match their stance to block, staggering them and allowing you to counter. If you block successfully, you have a moment to get your own hit in. A block or parry makes you invulnerable for a few moments, which is essential if outnumbered.
Light Attack: Quick attack. Does 10-20 damage for classes we've seen so far. Variable damage, like all attacks.
Heavy Attack: Wind-up attack. 20-50 damage for classes we've seen so far. Can be cancelled mid-animation to feint and switch to another move or direction. Does chip damage through blocks.
Execution: Finish him! If you kill an enemy with a heavy attack, you have a few moments where you can execute them. The animation leaves you vulnerable for a few seconds, but grants bonus XP (and maybe victory points?), increases their respawn delay, and makes them unable to revive. You regain some health as well.
Parry: Advanced block. Perform a heavy attack at the moment of contact during a block to stun the enemy and drain their stamina.
Guard Break: Interrupts guards (and I think attacks?). A shove that stuns the enemy for a second. Double hitting the button causes a more powerful version, depends on class. This more powerful version is usable to knock enemies off heights or into dangerous objects like spikes and fire. + Show Spoiler +
Raider does a linebacker grab and run, Warden is I think a kick, Orochi maybe flips over enemy and pushes them? Hard to tell what moves come from what button combos, and I know Warden has a shoulder-charge too.
You can stop an enemy from successfully guard-breaking you by performing a break yourself at the same time.
Combos: Little is known about these so far except that they exist. There's a lot of fighting game kind of combinations each class can do that do cool things. A few unblockable attacks exist as parts of combos. The third sequential attack seems to have special power. The Orochi seems to be able to attack seemlessly after a dodge, and the Warden has a few different melee attacks we've seen, and r/forhonor is convinced they can do an autoattack after upward block, though I've seen no evidence of this (Correction: this is a thing. Watch the Polygon video at 20:30 to see the seamless counter, similar to how the Orochi counter works). Again, I'm pretty sure the level of play we've seen so far makes it hard to say much about combos, but we do know many exist.
Dodges: Sidestepping, jumping back, and dodge-rolls are all a part of the game.
Feats: Various special abilities are available in game and seem to vary so they are probably chosen pre-game. Apparently at least faction-locked, maybe class-locked. You earn XP as the game goes on, allowing you to unlock up to 4 feats. They are generally not very high impact compared to skills in other games... the fighting part stays as the core of the game. Known feats include (I'm sure I missed a ton, and they were ignored by many players): + Show Spoiler +
Knights: -Flashbang (blind enemies at target area for a moment) -Fire grenade (target area deals damage over second to enemies in it) -Catapult Strike (after a few moments, anything in target area gets smashed by big rock) -Rally (your dudes get stronger) Vikings -Speed Boost (you run fast) -Berserk (gain speed/stamina/attack) Samurai -Smoke grenade (obscure UI and block vision for several seconds in a large area) -Self heal -Throwing knife
CAMPAIGN: Kill 'dem AIs. Bossfights aplenty. Knight campaign, then Viking, then Samurai, BW-style. Endboss named Apollyon.
1v1: Yup. Duel somebody and fuck 'em up gud. 2v2: Find a buddy and kill somebody else and their buddy. 4v4: You kinda get the idea. Straight 4v4 is called ELIMINATION.
CONQUEST: The primary game mode, and the only multiplayer one we've seen footage of so far.
Left, Right, and Center capture points. At Center point, called "the Front," swarms of little AI dudes fight each other. You can kill these guys in one hit (some cleave attacks can get a few at a go.) They are able to hurt you in larger numbers, but as long as you don't get surrounded you're pretty safe.
Left/Right are uncontested by the AI, so you can fight your glorious duels here. Fewer points per second to hold these, but they can heal you if you stand in them while they are held uncontested by your team.
You get 1pt for killing minions, 5 for killing players, some for holding a point, and 2/s for guarding a point (standing on it uncontested). XP/Renown is a separate system that earns you points personally for feats, using basically the same sources of points, but with granularity for how you scored the kill etc.
You also get 100 points for each point you hold. Confusingly, these points are not permanent. If you have 1001 pts and lose a point, you are at 901. This turns out to be really important because...
At 1000 pts, the enemy team is "breaking." This means their heroes stop respawning. Kill them to end the game. However, if they are able to take a point and get back under 1000, they stop breaking and their dead heroes respawn. Some cool comebacks are possible because of this. There is some kind of stalemate resolution, which I think is auto-lose after 4 min while breaking. + Show Spoiler +
The final game of that Paragon video has the attackers lose with the defenders at 1583 pts. After they were breaking, the attackers clumped into a 4 man ball and played it safe, but surrendered map control and fell increasingly behind in points. I think it might be time sensitive: the team is continuously breaking for 4min0sec.
As anyone who has ever been in a fight knows, it is VERY hard to fight 2v1. Don't do it. Communicate with your team-mates, try to fight on even numbers, and if outnumbered just try to keep them busy so your buddies have a better time of things elsewhere.
Blocking: A red arrow will indicate an attack from an enemy other than the one you're locked onto. You don't need to match their guard to block, only the side they are coming from. Some evidence indicates you need to block top to stop top attacks even from the side (which makes intuitive sense). If you block an attack, you cannot be hit for a second, so get some damage or distance.
Revenge: If you block enough attacks or take enough damage, you enter revenge mode. After a little animation (which leaves you vulnerable and during which half the youtubers got killed like chumps), you knock down adjacent enemies and gain super-blocks and faster attack speed. Your revenge bar fills faster if multiple opponents are locked on to you. This means a clever player can really fuck up multiple opponents if they play smart and stay alive until revenge allows them to take the fight to the other guys.
Why you shouldn't fight when outnumbered -The enemy, if coordinated, can attack from two sides and make it very hard to block (though, if you catch the first one to connect, you can auto-block the other). -If you die, you're pretty dead. If they lose a guy, they can revive him if they kill you quick enough. -If you're on the Right or Left point, they can heal all the way after killing you unless it gets contested.
Do note though, that there can be an advantage to having a guy 2v1 the bad guys then have another guy sneak up on them. The tank can fill up with revenge, while the reinforcement guy can eliminate a weak enemy from behind, and can revive the tank if the tank dies. Because of this, it can be a good idea to pair off in even number group fights rather than ganging up.
On June 17 2016 22:49 Latham wrote: I mean it looks nice, but Ubisoft? LMAO it's malformed and defective even before birth.
Yeah, the chance of it being a nightmare is high. But Ubisoft is so big that they do make some good games. I liked the Farcry games and some of the AC games. The feedback I hear from E3 is that the game is fun against other humans. But this is one I want for it to release and then wait some more.
Judge each game per se and not on its publisher, though the publisher may give a general indication of likely game quality beforehand.
Anyways, I'm really hopeful for it--primarily because the knights have badass halfswording, a real life technique. Regardless, it's still a game, ain't nothing gonna get real fighting. Though... they can get close, because real fighting is all about time and distance, two characteristics that can be copied and gamified. BUT this game with its lock-on fighting seems to remove the 'distance' part.
I remember seeing this presented during E3 2015, and I loved what I saw back then. It surely looks powermetal as fuck, and if the controls feels right, I can imagine it being awesome.
However, it being Ubisoft makes me scared as well.
At least in 4v4, you can have mixed faction teams.
Each faction has four basic class types, signifying overall roles. The classes are Assassin, Vanguard, Heavy, and Hybrid. Each faction has fairly different versions of each class archetype. Please note that my descriptions are based on screenshots, and things like armor types may be more aesthetic than mechanical.
VANGUARD K: Warden (longsword). Chain and partial plate. Described by devs as “medium armor” V: Raider (great axe). Almost no real armor. S: Kensei (nodachi (long katana)). Partial plate armor.
HYBRID K: Lawbringer (poleaxe). Heavy plate. V: Valkyrie (spear + small shield). Cloth and leather. S: Nobushi (naginata (spear with curved blade on end)). Cloth.
I’ve not seen any gameplay footage of any classes other than Orochi, Warden, Raider, and Kensei.
Thanks for the Gamescom info, Yoav, great job. I'm also very interested in this game, simply because I like swordfights, vikings, samurais and knights :D.
I would be satisfied with it ending up being a slightly more technical, multiplayer Dynasty Warriors.
I liked the discussion about “evoking history” rather than any delusion of accuracy. As someone who studied history, I’m glad that at least one developer is trying claim any type of accuracy in their crazy action game.
I want to get some hands on time with this game. It looks like a lot of fun if the stuff you do beyond dueling in meaningful. I’m also into any game that embraces slow, deliberate combat.
So I've watched a bit of the gameplay that came out of gamescom. A lot of it is very hampered by really, really bad players. I wish we got some more competent players going for it. That said, the Polygon video is decent. Some obvious decision-making failures, but also some decent understanding of at least the basic mechanics.
Also, it's got the first PvP gameplay I've seen of the fifth class, the Conqueror (Knight Heavy, flail and shield). It's brief and towards the end, and the guy gets wrekt, but still cool. + Show Spoiler +
You can briefly glimpse a Conqueror setting up a ladder in the Knight campaign mission released. Similarly, you can spot the Valkyrie and Shugoki (and very briefly the Warlord) in the Viking campaign mission.
Lock on combat. You pick a stance: left, right, or top. Your enemy does too. You can shift back and forth, and the idea is to either avoid their stance and attack to score a hit, or match their stance to block, staggering them and allowing you to counter. If you block successfully, you have a moment to get your own hit in. A block or parry makes you invulnerable for a few moments, which is essential if outnumbered.
Light Attack: Quick attack. Does 10-20 damage for classes we've seen so far. Variable damage, like all attacks.
Heavy Attack: Wind-up attack. 20-50 damage for classes we've seen so far. Can be cancelled mid-animation to feint and switch to another move or direction. Does chip damage through blocks.
Execution: Finish him! If you kill an enemy with a heavy attack, you have a few moments where you can execute them. The animation leaves you vulnerable for a few seconds, but grants bonus XP (and maybe victory points?), increases their respawn delay, and makes them unable to revive. You regain some health as well.
Parry: Advanced block. Perform a heavy attack at the moment of contact during a block to stun the enemy and drain their stamina.
Guard Break: Interrupts guards (and I think attacks?). A shove that stuns the enemy for a second. Double hitting the button causes a more powerful version, depends on class. This more powerful version is usable to knock enemies off heights or into dangerous objects like spikes and fire. + Show Spoiler +
Raider does a linebacker grab and run, Warden is I think a kick, Orochi maybe flips over enemy and pushes them? Hard to tell what moves come from what button combos, and I know Warden has a shoulder-charge too.
You can stop an enemy from successfully guard-breaking you by performing a break yourself at the same time.
Combos: Little is known about these so far except that they exist. There's a lot of fighting game kind of combinations each class can do that do cool things. A few unblockable attacks exist as parts of combos. The third sequential attack seems to have special power. The Orochi seems to be able to attack seemlessly after a dodge, and the Warden has a few different melee attacks we've seen, and r/forhonor is convinced they can do an autoattack after upward block, though I've seen no evidence of this (Correction: this is a thing. Watch the Polygon video at 20:30 to see the seamless counter, similar to how the Orochi counter works). Again, I'm pretty sure the level of play we've seen so far makes it hard to say much about combos, but we do know many exist.
Dodges: Sidestepping, jumping back, and dodge-rolls are all a part of the game.
Feats: Various special abilities are available in game and seem to vary so they are probably chosen pre-game. Apparently at least faction-locked, maybe class-locked. You earn XP as the game goes on, allowing you to unlock up to 4 feats. They are generally not very high impact compared to skills in other games... the fighting part stays as the core of the game. Known feats include (I'm sure I missed a ton, and they were ignored by many players): + Show Spoiler +
Knights: -Flashbang (blind enemies at target area for a moment) -Fire grenade (target area deals damage over second to enemies in it) -Catapult Strike (after a few moments, anything in target area gets smashed by big rock) -Rally (your dudes get stronger) Vikings -Speed Boost (you run fast) -Berserk (gain speed/stamina/attack) Samurai -Smoke grenade (obscure UI and block vision for several seconds in a large area) -Self heal -Throwing knife
CAMPAIGN: Kill 'dem AIs. Bossfights aplenty. Knight campaign, then Viking, then Samurai, BW-style. Endboss named Apollyon.
1v1: Yup. Duel somebody and fuck 'em up gud. 2v2: Find a buddy and kill somebody else and their buddy. 4v4: You kinda get the idea. Straight 4v4 is called ELIMINATION.
CONQUEST: The primary game mode, and the only multiplayer one we've seen footage of so far.
Left, Right, and Center capture points. At Center point, called "the Front," swarms of little AI dudes fight each other. You can kill these guys in one hit (some cleave attacks can get a few at a go.) They are able to hurt you in larger numbers, but as long as you don't get surrounded you're pretty safe.
Left/Right are uncontested by the AI, so you can fight your glorious duels here. Fewer points per second to hold these, but they can heal you if you stand in them while they are held uncontested by your team.
You get 1pt for killing minions, 5 for killing players, some for holding a point, and 2/s for guarding a point (standing on it uncontested). XP/Renown is a separate system that earns you points personally for feats, using basically the same sources of points, but with granularity for how you scored the kill etc.
You also get 100 points for each point you hold. Confusingly, these points are not permanent. If you have 1001 pts and lose a point, you are at 901. This turns out to be really important because...
At 1000 pts, the enemy team is "breaking." This means their heroes stop respawning. Kill them to end the game. However, if they are able to take a point and get back under 1000, they stop breaking and their dead heroes respawn. Some cool comebacks are possible because of this. There is some kind of stalemate resolution, which I think is auto-lose after 4 min while breaking. + Show Spoiler +
The final game of that Paragon video has the attackers lose with the defenders at 1583 pts. After they were breaking, the attackers clumped into a 4 man ball and played it safe, but surrendered map control and fell increasingly behind in points. I think it might be time sensitive: the team is continuously breaking for 4min0sec.
As anyone who has ever been in a fight knows, it is VERY hard to fight 2v1. Don't do it. Communicate with your team-mates, try to fight on even numbers, and if outnumbered just try to keep them busy so your buddies have a better time of things elsewhere.
Blocking: A red arrow will indicate an attack from an enemy other than the one you're locked onto. You don't need to match their guard to block, only the side they are coming from. Some evidence indicates you need to block top to stop top attacks even from the side (which makes intuitive sense). If you block an attack, you cannot be hit for a second, so get some damage or distance.
Revenge: If you block enough attacks or take enough damage, you enter revenge mode. After a little animation (which leaves you vulnerable and during which half the youtubers got killed like chumps), you knock down adjacent enemies and gain super-blocks and faster attack speed. Your revenge bar fills faster if multiple opponents are locked on to you. This means a clever player can really fuck up multiple opponents if they play smart and stay alive until revenge allows them to take the fight to the other guys.
Why you shouldn't fight when outnumbered -The enemy, if coordinated, can attack from two sides and make it very hard to block (though, if you catch the first one to connect, you can auto-block the other). -If you die, you're pretty dead. If they lose a guy, they can revive him if they kill you quick enough. -If you're on the Right or Left point, they can heal all the way after killing you unless it gets contested.
Do note though, that there can be an advantage to having a guy 2v1 the bad guys then have another guy sneak up on them. The tank can fill up with revenge, while the reinforcement guy can eliminate a weak enemy from behind, and can revive the tank if the tank dies. Because of this, it can be a good idea to pair off in even number group fights rather than ganging up.
Edited: caught video evidence of the quick counter from top attack by the Warden. It's a part of the moveset.
So the alpha NDA got lifted for this round of testing.
Which means there's a ton of new footage... but since it's a brand new genre (pretty much), the overall quality of play is laughable, which is a pity since so much of what is cool about ForHonor is the interactions skilled players have with one another. This guy is pretty skilled though, and plays with several different classes:
Generally for information, there's a great overview of the classes at 00:31:22 in the official reveal video:
Ton of new information, too much to post now (mostly I sucked enough dick to get in the alpha and am too busy killing Vikings to go through it all right now).
Overview: The Knight Conqueror (Flail+Shield) and Viking Berserker (Twin Axes) have been added to the already shown classes. This means we've now seen 6 of the 12. Conqueror is a tanky beast who interrupts attack chains when he blocks, can channel an omnidirectional block at the cost of stamina, has a heavy attack where he is still guarded and spins the flail behind him for momentum, and a wicked channeled sweeping attack where he takes a knee and just spins the flail in a circle. Berserker is similar to the Samurai Orochi... quick, combo-based, low HP. Good at dodging, and has a strong leap attack. (Also, a sick execute where he puts the axes behind the enemy's head and pops it off like a cork.) We also just got our first look at customization, which is beast. Duel mode (1v1) and Brawl (2v2) are now in game, but I'd hold off on watching much until we get more people who know how to play. Duels are dumb if both people are hacking mindlessly, but are great if both are playing well.
I've been watching some streamers play this and it looks nice, but the movement and attacks seem so delayed and stiff compared to something like Dark Souls PvP. Of course watching isn't the same as playing, so I'll have to wait and try it out myself before judging.
When there were suddenly females in the recent trailers I was really surprised. But then again, both genders is now on the ' 'has to be in the game' list at ubisoft. Could have been worse and they would have been handed the sandbox list of doom .
Kinda mind that Vikings can have female Warriors. Even if this is some alternate past, where resources got scarce etc.
To bad they didn't get inspired by the real Berserkers when making the class. T.T
The fighting looks really brutal though I like it.
There actually were female Viking warriors. There is always doubt about any historical detail, but we've found a reasonable amount of evidence corroborating their existence. They were called shield maidens, and were referred to in the sagas quite a bit. Some grave findings (women buried with weapons and viking paraphernalia far from home) also confirm this.
And there are occasional records of female knights and women who fought in Japan (classically with the weapon the game give Nobushi). But I suspect the real reason for their inclusion in game is more about the fantasy than the reality. Which makes sense... it's a game all about the fantasy. :-P
"Real Berserker" is kind of an interesting historical debate. Some argue for the old interpretation of them as shirtless warriors (a la the Raider, or Leif Erickson's sister) and others argue the etymology and usage suggests elite guards armored like other Vikings (similar to the game's Warlord)
im going to sound like a huge neckbeard here but.... who did they mocap for their katana wielding samurai, because it's pretty bad.. the big "wtf is this" is when he flips his katana to hold it backhand and attack.. even for an anime this is absolutely ridiculous, but with the "realistic" aesthetic it just looks laughable.. first off, he's sacrificing all of his defense for this "attack".. second, it telegraphs the only two attack vectors that he could possibly strike at (which i'm pretty sure is why the katana is always worn with the edge facing up, it makes striking while drawing more unpredictable). third, try holding a katana backhand, it's heavy as hell and attacking one handed severely limits your swing without having the acceleration from the initial draw that makes one handed draw attacks situationally effective.. it's just a really really weak attack and a stupid stance, especially given there are like 12 different actual stances that they could have used to simulate "attacking the bottom left," including the super effective "holding your sword down and to the right with both hands, ready to strike or switch stances."
next.. he lets go of his sword ALL THE TIME while attacking.. like he'll do a standard overhead strike and just let go of his sword with his left hand before it connects which would 100% rob his attack of any strength or accuracy for... looking cool? no idea why this is the case, but just watch his hands as he attacks.. good form might not look as anime like as the game's current style, but the way the guy fights he would get bopped by any actual samurai in like one strike. it just kinda looks dumb with the game's aesthetic.
i have no idea how good the other fighters are, i only see people playing the samurai
There's actually a video somewhere of the guys doing Kingdom Come talking about that exact problem. Basically, it's like the unrealistic Dark Souls moves... partly to look cool, but mostly to help with telegraphic for the opponent. If any of these guys were fighting as cleanly or as fast as a real martial artist, parry and counterplay would be near impossible. + Show Spoiler +
This idea conforms to my idea from experiences in a variety of weapon-based martial arts (though not kendo yet any more seriously than casually sparring).
So yes, it's unrealistic, but it generally helps make the game less spammy so everybody isn't just fleching and battering each other to death. + Show Spoiler +
But yes, I have my moments where it bugs me too. Why can't you thrust, Longswordsman!
Also, this is a short but excellent video of a Conqueror showing off how to correctly engage when outnumbered, as played by a Dark Souls PvPer:
Lot of cues from fighting games. It's a mixed genre game, but probably more a fighting game than anything else.
I'm on the lookout for more actually good players who showcase the depth, of which I've found a few. I'll try to post some more when they come out. But in the spoiler I've put an example of the kind of decisions you're making: + Show Spoiler +
Say you're playing Berserker (Viking Assassin, dual axes, quick and fragile) versus a Warden (Knight Vanguard, longsword, versatile).
You have mobility and therefore initiative in starting combat unless she gets you in a corner. You have a few tools to do this: Running Leap: Light Attack -You run and bash them. Low damage, and if they parry it, the Warden has an autoriposte on top parries. But quick, so they might not catch on and parry in time. Either way, one of you will probably get chip damage. Running Leap: Heavy Attack -Run and smash them hard. More damage, but much easier to parry. Good against some classes, but weaker against the Warden because they have such a good top riposte. Feint: Running Leap: Heavy Attack -You do the above, but animation-cancel into some other move. Maybe you cancel into a side attack, or a zone attack, or a guard-break or grab. The very existence of this possibility makes the actual heavy leap more viable, since you can trick your opponent into thinking you're going for the other one. Dash: Guard Break -Run at them, use a dash, and punch them. If they're turtling, this can give you an opening for a hit. But if she sees the move coming, she can guard break at the same time to cancel your break. Dash: Guard Break: Grab -If you get off the guard break, you can also grab them and try to throw them into or off of something. Dash: Side attack -If they're guarding wrong, expecting a top attack jump, you can just start hitting from the side and start a wicked combo. I'm not sure if there's a way to do this off of a jump, but I think there might be. I know some classes can dodge and seamlessly attack. Zone attack -If their guard is good, you can try an unblockable zone attack, which sweeps your weapons in a circle, and is mostly used for killing minions. It is fairly short range, particularly with the Zerker, and will get you in attack range as well as burn a lot of stamina, but is very potent and cannot be blocked. Parry: Riposte -If you prefer to be reactive, you can just get in range (as if going for a zone or break) and then wait for them to attack. If they take the bait, you can parry and ripose. Zerker parry grants an automatic guard break, and is key to using the class at higher levels. Dodge + Parry: Riposte Combine these moves to drain enemy stamina and allow you to take openings. Simple blocks work too for particularly quick attacks. Bait shoulder charge: Dodge: Counter The Warden has a powerful shoulder charge. Trick them into thinking they can knock you off a cliff or get you in a corner, and suddenly you can use their motion to get to the side of them and land a heavy attack or start a light combo.
And this is literally one tempo of one matchup. Much of this is skill based (all parries and feints are tricky on timing) and the decision making is crazy and relies on reading enemy movements. The guard indicator exists, but is mostly a training tool... at the higher level you really need to be reading their body to see what moves they're going to do.
Beta ends on Sunday and release is Feb 14. If anybody wants a partner or somebody to show them the ropes, I'm Khanahar on Uplay.
General observations: Gameplay very fast, which makes it all the more painful when you screw up and get thrown against a wall. Overall, it honestly feels a ton like actual fencing, sport and HEMA. Little things like what it's like to fight a spear-user with a sword (that struggle to close distance, satisfyingly chopping them up when you manage it), or the satisfaction of pommel-striking them or parrying an attack and following up by using the grip of your sword like a hammer to execute them. I also take special satisfaction in chasing fleeing squishies who's bubbles you've invaded, then leap-attacking their heads off.
Specific observations on classes: Knights Warden (Longsword): My preferred class. Feels a little like playing Zerg... not really setting the pace, but reacting to my opponents bullshit and punishing them for it. Peacekeeper (Sword + Dagger): Really nimble, brutal at close range... really strong guard break (melee) followup. Weak defense, poor range. Conqueror (Flail + Shield): Tanky as all getout. Awesome shield charge gap-closer. Difficulty dealing quick damage and short range. Perk: RP as Diablo Crusader. Lawbringer (Poleaxe/Halberd): Not in Beta. Longer range, great bullying and space control. Also just looks awesome.
Vikings Raider (2h Axe): Powerful punishes, unblockable cleave, and a great 'grab and carry' that looks amazing. Think Diablo Barbarian. Berserker (2x 1h Axe): Good combos and guard breaks. Quite difficult to use, I've encountered few good ones. Warlord (Sword + Shield): Similar to Conqueror. Has a great headbutt move. Valkyrie (Spear + Shield): Not in Beta.
Samurai Kensei (No-dachi (longer katana)): Classic Samurai. Combo-based, with 3rd attack finishers that are either unblockable or uninteruptible. Orochi (Katana): Ninjaesque Samuari. Very fast, hard to parry or interrupt. Low HP pool, and tends to run low on stamina. Shugoki (Kanabo (big club)): Not in Beta. Massive HP pool, and most attacks are uninteruptible. Can trade HP with you happily. Can bear hug you to crush you. Nobushi (Naginata (curve-blade spear)): Brutal long range bleed attacks. Get in range and punish her.
I so want this game to have great gameplay but in videos it looks so.. kinda..dull.. Hope i am very wrong because this is a type of game i really just love. Also cant really trust reviews these days, which is sad guess i will have to check out youtube. Would be nice if i could find some highlevel players because looking at noobs playing doesnt give a fair perspective. Perhaps i could find some links from this thread.
This game is one of the best gaming suprises I've ever had. I never knew it existed until a few days ago and now I can't stop playing. Like if Dark Souls and Street Fighter had a little simpleton baby. It has incredible graphics and design as well.
I've also not run into any sort of technical problems with the game at all so far. Kind of shocking considering Ubisoft and Uplay are involved...
The only thing that's clearly a turn off overall is the price. Im willing to pay it but for most people I don't think it's a $60 dollar game.
The game is a blast, but it is entirely a fighting game, and has a steep learning curve. The "moba" mode isn't really polished yet either, but it might get there eventually. It's pretty expensive and I think the new player experience will be atrocious if you're not in an ocean of noobs. Hopefully, the single player campaign can train people enough, as currently, most people don't even know how to properly dodge, parry or tech grabs.
Still, I'm really enjoying it, and bots are actually pretty good. You can train with them enough to beat a majority of the player base. Also, the performances on even poor PCs is impressive. This can easily run on 5-6 year old hardware, which is quite surprising considering the graphics.
I really hope this game takes off, as it could be a really unique esports to watch, but I'm not sure how well ubisoft can handle this. It would require lots of polishing for 4v4, a cheaper multi-player only edition, and new characters/factions along the way. Hopefully, one day we'll get to root for TL in a For Honor major =)
On February 11 2017 15:07 Foxxan wrote: I so want this game to have great gameplay but in videos it looks so.. kinda..dull.. Hope i am very wrong because this is a type of game i really just love. Also cant really trust reviews these days, which is sad guess i will have to check out youtube. Would be nice if i could find some highlevel players because looking at noobs playing doesnt give a fair perspective. Perhaps i could find some links from this thread.
Play the beta this weekend and find out!
As for good gameplay footage it's true that the reviewers are generally terrible. I'll see if I can find any good stuff... the Hall of Heroes guys are the most organized people taking the game seriously so far.
On February 11 2017 15:07 Foxxan wrote: I so want this game to have great gameplay but in videos it looks so.. kinda..dull.. Hope i am very wrong because this is a type of game i really just love. Also cant really trust reviews these days, which is sad guess i will have to check out youtube. Would be nice if i could find some highlevel players because looking at noobs playing doesnt give a fair perspective. Perhaps i could find some links from this thread.
Play the beta this weekend and find out!
As for good gameplay footage it's true that the reviewers are generally terrible. I'll see if I can find any good stuff... the Hall of Heroes guys are the most organized people taking the game seriously so far.
thx i downloaded beta and played around 30 min now.
Not sure i like it overall. Some parts of the game i love atleast, like blocking enemy attacks is fucking great. Not sure i know every move yet either, hopefully i dont. I saw for example bot hit a combo 3-chain attack and the third hit wasnt at the same place.
Can you block bodycheck? Maybe you do a bodycheck yourself to block it?
Anyway, this game reminded me that i truly miss a great multiplayer games and hopefully this might have put some thoughts into business for other developers.
EDIT: yeah i missed tons of moves, and just figured out advanded tranining.
I've been in almost every test (including close technical alpha) and even with the current version of the game one thing they never managed to "fix": red NAT of death. Used to be even worse, but all the cool things you can experience on the battlefield are instantly thrown out of windows when you wait ages for a game or can't connect at all. Not sure why they didn't want to invest in dedicated servers in this case
On February 11 2017 21:30 OsaX Nymloth wrote: I've been in almost every test (including close technical alpha) and even with the current version of the game one thing they never managed to "fix": red NAT of death. Used to be even worse, but all the cool things you can experience on the battlefield are instantly thrown out of windows when you wait ages for a game or can't connect at all. Not sure why they didn't want to invest in dedicated servers in this case
Because then they have to provide servers and are responsible of those servers are shit.
Plus you enable a pirate scene if they can run the game on dedicated servers that don't check the legitimacy of a copy.
As with so many things in the end it comes down to $.
On February 12 2017 01:03 ETisME wrote: i felt the combat is fun but the tutorial doesn't offer enough to really help you mastering anything
There's an advanced tutorial and its basically mandatory. Also, if anybody wants tips, I'm pretty new to the whole fighting game genre but I'm generally versed in For Honor movesets. Add me if you want: Khanahar on Uplay.
Easy to miss but important stuff:
-Generally, orange means unblockable, white means uninterruptible, purple means bleed, blue means guard break (or guard break counter).
-Guard break counters a camping enemy. It will generally allow a free heavy attack. If you do a second guard break, you will knock them back; if they hit a wall this will stun them, and if they fall of a cliff they will die. Guard break can be countered. This is a little tricky to execute, and requires reading the character's body, not just the UI. You can also counter GB by just hitting them; it doesn't interrupt attacks in progress.
-Learn to feint. You can cancel heavy and some special attacks with the cancel/feint button. Follow up with something else. I'll often feint a heavy so they try to parry, then guard break them to guarantee a heavy.
-Learn to parry attacks. It allows a free hit generally, and also drains stamina. You can parry most unblockable attacks.
-An enemy at grey stamina is weaker in several ways. You can double guard break them to knock them down, then run at them (I usually break lock to do this) and hit them with a heavy attack or two.
-Use your dashes. (Characters with mobility only). A lot of downward attacks can be dodged, and dashes are a decent way of repositioning away from environmental hazards. They do have a recovery time though, so be careful of using them as a gap-closer.
-Remember that the best answer to a devastating heavy attack is often just to light attack them out of it. Watch out for white attack animations with the Warlord or Kensei and occasionally others; these attacks are uninterruptible.
-READ YOUR CHARACTERS MOVESET! It's available in the menu anytime, and it's really important to practice everything in it. I play Warden, which has a powerful shoulder charge and a devastating special top parry (but performed with light attack button). But I had to practice getting both of those right.
On February 11 2017 21:30 OsaX Nymloth wrote: I've been in almost every test (including close technical alpha) and even with the current version of the game one thing they never managed to "fix": red NAT of death. Used to be even worse, but all the cool things you can experience on the battlefield are instantly thrown out of windows when you wait ages for a game or can't connect at all. Not sure why they didn't want to invest in dedicated servers in this case
The explanation I've heard is that the system they've gone with is more standard for fighting games. Which is to say its good for the smaller matches (ensures everybody has same gamestate), but struggles sometimes with dominion etc. for connectivity reasons. I've also heard reports of difficulties with 1v1 matchmaking, but I haven't had any trouble personally.
On February 11 2017 22:03 Jockmcplop wrote: Its honour.
Whose honor?
The game looks really good, but I don't have a good enough PC to run it comfortably (a laptop with a 960M). Even simple duels vs AI are quite low FPS. If the single player is more than what I'm expecting it to be it could make me buy a computer.
Have you lowered all graphics to minimum manually? I've tested the game on similar hardware, and performance is not an issue for 1v1 or 2v2. I doubt it's CPU related, as laptops with 960m usually have a decent i7. The game runs fine on a 6870 and a 570 at least.
I haven't fiddled that much with it, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have a steady 60 fps even with everything to min and a sub 1080p resolution. My laptop doesn't run like a new laptop + 960m anymore, I have to remove the dust :D.
It looked like the game would be running really well on low-end hardware though, the game ran pretty fine until my laptop overheated and started throttling perf.
Not a clue what this NAT system is but man is it garbage. It starts of green and I can find games fine but after 1 or 2 it goes to red and can't connect to anything any more. Restarting the client makes it go back to green for a game, seems totally arbitrary.
On February 12 2017 07:33 DannyJ wrote: I really don't like the boosts in this game. Just makes 4v4 elim involve a lot of running and playing... dishonorably.
Elimination is my least favorite mode. Currently, I'm enjoying 2v2 best, and playing 1v1 when I want an extra challenge or Dominion when I want to just goof around.
There's a lot of discussion about an assault mode, the attackers moving through various points to capture a castle before they run out of time/tickets.
It seems like there are a lot more modes in the full game. And more classes I think. The classes are pretty neat too. The shield classes fill me need to be a total asshole and knock people on their ass.
On February 12 2017 09:49 Plansix wrote: It seems like there are a lot more modes in the full game. And more classes I think. The classes are pretty neat too. The shield classes fill me need to be a total asshole and knock people on their ass.
There are 3 other classes not in Beta that are in game at release: Shugoki (sumo wrestler with a club), Valkyrie (spear and shield Viking) and Lawbringer (full metal plate poleaxe Knight). More classes are to be released periodically after launch. Edit: so far we know there's a ninja and a roman-looking dude.
Oh, and this seems like a good moment to give a PSA: You don't need to recruit a hero to play it. Recruitment is just to unlock customization.
Man I really wanted to get in on this action, it looks really cool, but my lappy is so old I simply can't run directx 11. Watching streams has been really fun though, whether it's the people 1v1ing who actually know things or the happy nooblords in dominion.
I had a really hilarious 2v2 where I died to bleed damage after killing a Nobushi. Our Conqueror and their Warlord were senselessly bashing back and forth on each others' shields... I'm pretty sure they didn't know guardbreak exists. And I didn't really want to tell them because they were super committed to just trading useless blows. Eventually one of them fell in the lake. -.-
i am not sure if this is worth it, i have two problems with this game. the peer to peer gameplay where you can lag without it being your fault and the for a fighting game shallow combat.
My problem with the game beta so far is you can't rebind controller, brings too much advantage to kb/mouse which you can move buttons to be more optimal. Personally i find throw/counter throw way too useful and hard to reach on reaction at X(left) but much easier moving it to the keyboard. I mostly just want to bind throw to left trigger then i'd be happy. I'd probably also move cancel to a(bottom) and roll to x. I'd probably also want to move those around depending on who i'm using given the importance of throws and cancels does depend on some of the characters.
Personally I don't think this game can hold my attention because lack of builds. The combat is too shallow to be proper fighting game on it's own, plus limited character pool. So then it comes down to builds and I just don't see it so far although it does seem like ubi is really trying to push a community onto the game building it up which seems like a good long term marketing approach similar to how capcom is to the FGC. I just don't see enough game atm and the online connections can be spooty Plus I fear bots, the data is telegraphed i'm sure it wont take long to make simple auto reposte scripts, or perma block scripts.
I do think the game works to a degree, time certainly goes by without me noticing but I just question if it can hold my attention in a way outside of a month or two. Just adding more characters every few months also wont do it for me.
I see a lot of mentions of the shallow combat, and when you look at streamers, almost none of them are even scratching the surface. The vast majority of players online have no defense and mainly mash their 2-3 best moves.
The fact is, we don't know how deep the game goes yet because nobody's even there. And once people are there, what's to say the devs won't step in to fix the defensive stalemate (which seems to be the main problem that might arise).
Concerns about bots is pretty valid, however, and policing an entire community might not be on Ubisoft's radar. I don't think the game will feature a replay option with inputs either, which is huge for spotting bots in other fighting games. But they seem to have really good programmers on this game, so let's hope for the best.
On February 12 2017 13:54 Pwere wrote: I see a lot of mentions of the shallow combat, and when you look at streamers, almost none of them are even scratching the surface. The vast majority of players online have no defense and mainly mash their 2-3 best moves.
The fact is, we don't know how deep the game goes yet because nobody's even there. And once people are there, what's to say the devs won't step in to fix the defensive stalemate (which seems to be the main problem that might arise).
Concerns about bots is pretty valid, however, and policing an entire community might not be on Ubisoft's radar. I don't think the game will feature a replay option with inputs either, which is huge for spotting bots in other fighting games. But they seem to have really good programmers on this game, so let's hope for the best.
Combat is shallow compared to actual fighting games the characters just don't have the same level of depth. Is the combat deeper then dynasty warriors, absolutely but it's not tekken by any stretch. It's deeper then dark souls? Sorta, dark souls combat had builds which gave them more depth because character stats were all influenced and magic and weapons gave more meaning to limited move pool. Not that Dark souls was terribly balanced, although 2's focus on balance got there pretty well but who actually likes 2's core game. Dark souls pvp is hardly enough to build a whole game around though that's a super niche area, FGC is pretty niche to begin with in terms of game genres.
That's why i wonder if builds and feats will be opened up a bit more outside of just making my character shiny and being able to use feats every once and awhile.
I to feel the combat feels shallow overall. Its missing something, has nothing to do with how high the skill cap, its that the combat is missing things, such as to little moves for each character, maybe it feels to slow paced from time to time as well. Perhaps adding some more moves wont cut it either, perhaps there needs to be more finesse while someone combos for example... Big potential for sure atleast.
Sad that the combat cant nail it because otherwise the game looks really good, exactly my cup of tea of a game.
Personally i feel like making maps just for 1v1 that have things like height and environmental dangers(no instant death but like the geysers(although nerved dmg) and other elements like that more objects in center of the arena could work.
Then opening up equipped weapons to character stats change a bit, although i feel like that will happen in the game anyways for 1v1 duels / 2v2 brawls.
Lastly reworking feats to always be available and specializing a set of feats balanced for 1v1 or 2v2 combat that are always unlocked at the stat.
I think that would do it for me outside of doing something drastic which is more imaginative than what i'm thinking. Other wise it feels like the character personalization in the beta is limited to the messy 4v4 modes which are cluster fs to begin with. Obviously the feats can't be let into 1v1 or 2v2 setting as is, although revenge is let in for some reason.
I also wish you could rebind stuff on the controller. Having a skill that relies most on your reactions being on X is REALLY awkward.
Teching guard breaks in general seem really strange to me. Either the timing is outrageously specific or it's just purely random because of the network, I can't tell.
In terms of being shallow I'm sure it is compared to legitimate fighting games. I don't think Ubisoft really intended to have a game where people can pick apart frame data or have specific option selects and shit. It's still definitely deeper than many other games like it though, and certainly allows for some fun mind games.
Nope iam not comparing it to fighting games, i might look at fighting games but its very simple, look, I look at this game after having played it for 10h or so and feel that the gameplay is missing stuff, iam not even sure what you are saying really. Feels like you defend it for whatever reason which you shouldnt in the way you are doing it.
60 euro for multiplayer game with p2p conncection... I will skip that. It looks good, the combat is decent, lacks depth and the bad latency doesn't help. The game itself is repetitive - just like any other multiplayer game... Overal a decent game, but the p2p connection is what is killing it for me. Ubisoft never fails to disappoint.
On February 13 2017 01:50 Pr0wler wrote: 60 euro for multiplayer game with p2p conncection... I will skip that. It looks good, the combat is decent, lacks depth and the bad latency doesn't help. The game itself is repetitive - just like any other multiplayer game... Overal a decent game, but the p2p connection is what is killing it for me. Ubisoft never fails to disappoint.
It should be p2p, like every fighting game is. Ass netcode is one thing but don't blame it on p2p.
On February 13 2017 01:50 Pr0wler wrote: 60 euro for multiplayer game with p2p conncection... I will skip that. It looks good, the combat is decent, lacks depth and the bad latency doesn't help. The game itself is repetitive - just like any other multiplayer game... Overal a decent game, but the p2p connection is what is killing it for me. Ubisoft never fails to disappoint.
It should be p2p, like every fighting game is. Ass netcode is one thing but don't blame it on p2p.
No, it shouldn't be. This is not a fighting game and it's not strictly 1v1.
On February 13 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote: My biggest problem is that damn menus taking forever between matches. That shit gets old when I just want to spam duels.
Yeah definitely. There needs to a be a rematch option that just puts you back in the same stage and it just starts up again. They could even take out the dumb zooming in and out that happens right before each fight...
On February 13 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote: My biggest problem is that damn menus taking forever between matches. That shit gets old when I just want to spam duels.
Yeah definitely. There needs to a be a rematch option that just puts you back in the same stage and it just starts up again. They could even take out the dumb zooming in and out that happens right before each fight...
The UI is sort of a nightmare, but that is what I expect from Ubisoft. I swear they have one dude in their office that is obsessed with weird symbols in diamonds as an ascetic
On February 12 2017 13:54 Pwere wrote: I see a lot of mentions of the shallow combat, and when you look at streamers, almost none of them are even scratching the surface. The vast majority of players online have no defense and mainly mash their 2-3 best moves.
The fact is, we don't know how deep the game goes yet because nobody's even there. And once people are there, what's to say the devs won't step in to fix the defensive stalemate (which seems to be the main problem that might arise).
Concerns about bots is pretty valid, however, and policing an entire community might not be on Ubisoft's radar. I don't think the game will feature a replay option with inputs either, which is huge for spotting bots in other fighting games. But they seem to have really good programmers on this game, so let's hope for the best.
Combat is shallow compared to actual fighting games the characters just don't have the same level of depth.
It seems like I didn't have the same definition of depth as you guys. If we're talking about the amount of knowledge or possibilities to "hit the lab", then yeah, this game is definitely lacking. So far I'm aware of only a single option select (feint parrying), and it takes only a couple hours of practice to build the reflex, and has no downside.
It's hard to tell where Ubisoft wants to go with this. I hope it doesn't crash and burn after a month. They're trying something new and there are areas where it really shines.
honestly i don't think they are trying anything new. this kind of gameplay existed with other games like jedi academy and even DS. it's just more accessible, being that this is its only mode of play and is more popular than those titles were for the PVP.
this is mainstream pvping. good old 'easy to pick up, hard to master', and lots of room for creativity, as well as inserting your persona in character gameplay.
in fact, if the game borrowed elements from a little known strategy game called Shattered Galaxy, it would be seen as revolutionary for gaming. in shattered galaxy, there's a world map + faction system with three sides. sound familiar? you fight over territories, each having their distinct mapping. for key points like chokepoints there are sometimes different objectives. after a territory is claimed, you can move onto the next as an attacker, or have to defend the same point that was taken. there's travel distance and time involved so it is like a grand strategy game beyond the in-map strategy elements.
now there are heavy RPG elements, you control units like starcraft but we would say in For Honor's case that you only control yourself, or a small AI regiment at most. for leveling, you're able to dump stats into different points which affect how many units you can bring to the field, the technology youre capable of equipping, the quality or type of units (another type of tech). the balance of these stats are very important in the long term because it affects how quickly you progress (leveling you units level give your commander experience) and change your playstyle or exact type of units you can deploy (your role and capabilities, and relative unit strength).
because of the class system in For Honor, we could say that everyone is basically using the same kind of unit, with its own little quirks and options that are unavailable to the others. technology would make the game extremely complicated and a class of it's own, so i won't get into that possibility.
but, i like the idea of territory control, and territory benefits, like easier to defend points, like hubs, making it very hard to recapture and easy to reinforce. it would add some longevity to the game past 1v1s and pure competition. In shattered galaxy also, you move onto a very different planet once you hit level cap for the first planet, or you stay as level cap and command troops and perfect your army. there's a political aspect as there's a governor or a faction leader that needs to be elected via a process, who de-facto calls the shots so players in the faction have direction. of course, there are in-faction clans too.
On February 13 2017 17:45 nanaoei wrote: honestly i don't think they are trying anything new. this kind of gameplay existed with other games like jedi academy and even DS.
DS has VASTLY fewer options than Jedi Academy (and For Honor).
And I would buy a modern iteration of that game in a heartbeat... (hell, I love and still play all three of those)
Heh, I think I still have my Shattered Galaxy box somewhere. A game way ahead of its time.
Granted, the ideas aren't entirely original, but those examples are from decade old games. It's still a refreshing mix of ideas, even if the execution isn't perfect.
This game is awesome is see it maybe even making E-Sports. I Played the beta till Reputation 2 with Nobushi and i can say its a PURE SKILL GAME...! No Char feels overpowered. I might buy this one, you should check it out if your into a "Mortal Kombat Medieval" typ of game (with no Bullshit) based on timing. The Dominion mode feels kinda like Viking on PS3 just with Multiplayer, very FUN!
On February 13 2017 19:45 WhosQuany wrote: This game is awesome is see it maybe even making E-Sports. I Played the beta till Reputation 2 with Nobushi and i can say its a PURE SKILL GAME...! No Char feels overpowered. I might buy this one, you should check it out if your into a "Mortal Kombat Medieval" typ of game (with no Bullshit) based on timing. The Dominion mode feels kinda like Viking on PS3 just with Multiplayer, very FUN!
Nice game so far we will see
warden apparently has a vortex. probably they will/should remove the ability to cancel the shoulder bash into a guard break, like they did with the warlord headbutt. otherwise balance seems fine.
When you talk about balance what do you truly mean? I found an imbalance in the way you fight each other - The defender have to much power against the attacker. There is only so much you can do to attack, i feel this is a problem atm and will become a bigger problem when people master the defensive side.
So its not balanced at all atm. Still the fights feel "fair", meaning that you still have a realatively good control in the fights. But thats not enough.
On February 13 2017 22:09 Foxxan wrote: When you talk about balance what do you truly mean? I found an imbalance in the way you fight each other - The defender have to much power against the attacker. There is only so much you can do to attack, i feel this is a problem atm and will become a bigger problem when people master the defensive side.
So its not balanced at all atm. Still the fights feel "fair", meaning that you still have a realatively good control in the fights. But thats not enough.
not sure what you mean? like guard breaks and feints are a thing?
edit: hm. did take a look at the off. forums. Seen quite a few complaints about that. Didnt really notice it myself. *shrugs*
You can block every weapon attack, light and hard. You can parry the attacks, if you practice well you can probably master this vs every class.
Not sure after a parry right now you get a free light hit? If not, then you get a free light hit after this sequense: Parry->Guardbreak(now your char moves forward automatically)->light hit Still kinda weak damage, not enitrely sure every char gets a free light hit either.
You can also block guardbreaks. What can the attacker do then? Its like a drawn out fight in the end which isnt fun. And balance in this case i dont care about its a imbalance in the player vs player interaction and it needs a change.
Also the assassins can dodge the Parry->guardbreak sequence because they are so fast so for some classes it seems to be really hard to even touch them. Like the conquerer with his slow attacks and good defense, if he try and attack the assassin the assassin will simple dodge it and then get a "free damage" to him and rinse and repeat.
Feels like a drawn out fight in the end which isnt fun. And balance in this case i dont care about its a imbalance in the player vs player interaction and it needs a change.
what about mindgame the dodge then? Ye the game shouldnt revolve around mind gaming the opponent, that becomes dull fast and is also not consistent. Mind gaming is fine but it should at most be 20%~. We need more moves in the attack department. Tweaks or whatnot. Up to ubisoft in the end, and they should aswell in the end fix it themself, i mean they should see this problem without feedback even.
yeah, you can block guardbreaks, but you kinda have to read that the break is coming. or have god reflexes.
yeah, conqueror against orochi was hella painful. try to corner them, they are super dead if they have no room.
also: have you tried feinting to create an opening for an attack?
i am super confused about the mindgame thing. like it is basically a fighting game... fighting games are like 80% mindgames, esp. at higher level? if you introduce more attack vectors the game becomes even more of a guessing game? since you/your enemy have more options to choose from? so it either becomes more mindgamey or random.
also: have you tried feinting to create an opening for an attack?
Yeah and thats where mindgames comes into play. You can feint, trick your opponent but if you mindgame your enemy its more like " I knew he was gonna feint so i decided to go a full heavy attack." and then it hits the enemy because of it. He could just as well be wrong, in the long run its at best 50/50. Might work splended sometimes while others it dont.
Thats the type that cant be dominant in a game that is supposed to relie on skill. Thats why i say we need more attacks and mindgames should be at most 20%.
if you introduce more attack vectors the game becomes even more of a guessing game? since you/your enemy have more options to choose from? so it either becomes more mindgamey or random.
Dont know what vectors mean but i think i understand the the point. Not really, and not even close if done well since using tactics in combat isnt about luck its about skill. It all deponds how you design it.
Like lets take chess for example. You can win by setting traps. A trap in chess=Enemy can take that pawn for free or maybe a piece but by doing so you will lose because my pressure will become to much. Thats kind of mindgame in this game.
In chess, you can outtactic your opponent(chess is mostly about tactics actually), you can outstrategy him. Its like outmicroing someone. In a game like this, it could be for example in the way how you do combos perhaps put more skill into it and perhaps enemy shouldnt be able to parry everything either so instead of parrying that one attack and then he gets the opportunity he might need to block three attacks in a row.
Just important that there are play for both parties. Like a good relationship against one another thats when games are fun because even when you lose you can say afterwards "damn he really outplayed him" or "yeah i need to work my blocking" or something like that.
Like back in the way when i lost in broodwar it was always something that i could work on where in sc2 it just feels like shit because of the fragile and to much rng crap there.
Ah I think I understand now. You are basically saying that the defender has a lot of easy and strong tools and the attacker needs to resort to mindgames to find an opening. you would like there to be some sort of attack that relies on the skill of the attacker. so you dont think the game is very balanced because the defender is favoured.
actually makes sense now that i think about that a bit.
when you attack you gain nothing as a basic block is not hard to achieve by someone skilled. you lose a lot because the attack can be parried or dodged+counterattack by some classes. So the only reason to attack is that otherwise the game would be pointless.
so in the end in high skill matches, noone really wants to attack, there is no point to it.
I dont even know if ubisoft is interested or able to fix that.
Aight. Fair enough, that looks worse than what i have expected or seen. And yeah its obv not like a Street Fighter, or even meant to be. Still think it is fairly similar in concept. and even in a fighting game you are able to tech throws and block for ages, if you are good. Is just way harder cause the game is more complex and/or the timings are more strict. also a bunch of fighting games have like a guard meter.
generally dont have much faith in ubisoft, but lets see. a lot ways that could easily fix that (adjust stamina consumption, introduce chip damage, aforementioned guard meter etc).
On February 13 2017 22:48 Foxxan wrote: You can block every weapon attack, light and hard. You can parry the attacks, if you practice well you can probably master this vs every class.
Not sure after a parry right now you get a free light hit? If not, then you get a free light hit after this sequense: Parry->Guardbreak(now your char moves forward automatically)->light hit Still kinda weak damage, not enitrely sure every char gets a free light hit either.
You can also block guardbreaks. What can the attacker do then? Its like a drawn out fight in the end which isnt fun. And balance in this case i dont care about its a imbalance in the player vs player interaction and it needs a change.
Also the assassins can dodge the Parry->guardbreak sequence because they are so fast so for some classes it seems to be really hard to even touch them. Like the conquerer with his slow attacks and good defense, if he try and attack the assassin the assassin will simple dodge it and then get a "free damage" to him and rinse and repeat.
Feels like a drawn out fight in the end which isnt fun. And balance in this case i dont care about its a imbalance in the player vs player interaction and it needs a change.
what about mindgame the dodge then? Ye the game shouldnt revolve around mind gaming the opponent, that becomes dull fast and is also not consistent. Mind gaming is fine but it should at most be 20%~. We need more moves in the attack department. Tweaks or whatnot. Up to ubisoft in the end, and they should aswell in the end fix it themself, i mean they should see this problem without feedback even.
After parry it's a free guard break, the light is also a possibility but most people opt for the guard break because it opens up more possibilities. Guard break into throw into wall is a free heavy which i see used more often, or vortex/uninterruptible options with wardern/conquerors/raiders/kensei. There is also really cheap stuff you can do if you can trap them against a wall that the guard break helps with.
After parry you can try heavy but it's not free they can block or parry it depending on character and distances and kind of heavy you do so it's not consistent between characters.
The main issue is that the options are character specific and the characters that benefit the most are like assassins because of their dodge range and start up allows them to get out of some of those.
On February 14 2017 02:30 LaNague wrote: when you attack you gain nothing as a basic block is not hard to achieve by someone skilled. you lose a lot because the attack can be parried or dodged+counterattack by some classes. So the only reason to attack is that otherwise the game would be pointless.
so in the end in high skill matches, noone really wants to attack, there is no point to it.
I dont even know if ubisoft is interested or able to fix that.
Pretty much, which is why i'd move to open up feats for 1v1/2v2 matches and rework feats to work in a limited setting so you'd have feats for small groups and feats for 4v4 groups. Other wise really there is no great way to attack consistently. Feints are good but guard breaks open you up if they tech it so feints really are the only thing you can rely on and not everyone reacts to feints. Some attacks do chip but it's so little it's pointless to really concern yourself over it. So just bock you can on reaction parry heavys anyways so feinting them is pointless because the feint comes way before the end of the parry timing window.
On February 14 2017 05:38 ChunderBoy wrote: there are some unblockable attacks atleast and knockdowns orochi just happens to not have both
unblockables can be parried , knockdowns can be interrupted or side stepped for the most part.
Yep, the second I realised how perfect defense is the ultimate endgame here I canceled my preorder. Also don´t forget revenge mode. It was implemented for 1v2, 3, 4 situations, but it´s available in duels and 2v2 aswell. Just 1 more thing that favors defensive play. It´s a shame, I always loved defensive play, but in this game it does´nt feel rewarding at all. At the end of open beta I got duels where I would deflect everything as Peacekeeper and do nothing else to win. It does´nt feel rewarding if u can "master" a Skill like that in 2 Days of playing...
I feel like the defense will be nerfed once the game gets out there to more people. I can see wanting to make parrying and timing based dodges powerful, but there can’t be ways to recover from everything.
I also feel the ability to lunge forward is pretty limited. Like normal humans, I think the fighters move be quicker walking forward than backwards.
Just feels so bad that they didnt foresee this themself before the beta started. Even before the beta in summer. Perhaps they have patched the game, so alright with that inmind i guess i need to give them the benefit of the doubt.
But its frightening really, developers in general really seem to be so off with gameplay and miss things all the time and if they truly do miss things that is obvious in the long run, then what makes them able to "fix" the core issue of said game.
My first thought is that if they nerf defense and make no further change, it will feel to spammy. So it do feel like it is kinda "band aid" to do so. But isnt that the way developers do these days, nerf/buff, some numbers around and get done with it.
I really think the character speeds and probably even attack speeds should all be sped up. Make it so you can offensively pressure people easier in many aspects. Right now there are no mix ups where people have to wrack their brain thinking what could be coming then react to the one that does. Much of that is just game design wise but also because almost everything is really slow and telegraphed.
The guard break mechanic overall seems really wonky as well. The mind games and reactions from throws and teching (countering) throws is one of the pivotal parts of opening people up and starting offense in many games. Right now it's just too easy to guard break almost everything, and there's very little downside to even completely whiffing a break. You should be able to back dash Guards at least.
It certainly has it's flaws and hopefully Ubisoft changes some aspects. I'd be absolutely shocked if they did though, sadly... This game's main mode is a 4v4 Moba type thinger with gear stats and perks playing a role. They aren't worrying about the 1v1 crowd I assume.
Personally I still really like the game for what it is. It's gruesome stupidity for the most part, all taking place in an extremely pretty and well done world. Anyone hoping it's a legitimate competitive game will be disappointed.
If you think that Ubisoft will fix anything, forget about it. Fixing old stuff doesn't bring money, but releasing new factions/heroes and other DLCs does. Also, they for sure will push "e-Sports" for this game... Again, it boosts sales.
They already announced that there will be 6 new heroes this "season", probably that means new faction, maps etc.
1. Guard break now requires that you press it later rather than earlier. Timing for guard break is also now different between no stamina and stamina. Tapping it too early results in an immediate failure.
2. Guard break is no longer guaranteed after a parry when they have stamina. A level 3 AI was able to cancel my guard break every time I parried them.
3. Guard break is no longer guaranteed during a dodge. The level 3 AI was able to cancel guard break every time I tried to catch him during a dodge.
I think that these changes help break up the immortal defense meta. As parry into guard break is no longer a viable combo, every character has to rely on more of their actual kit.
Not sure how valid the claims are as I haven't gotten the game and the patch notes on the forums don't really mention those. Will probably do a bunch of research (watching strims n shit) on weekend and decide then.
1. Guard break now requires that you press it later rather than earlier. Timing for guard break is also now different between no stamina and stamina. Tapping it too early results in an immediate failure.
2. Guard break is no longer guaranteed after a parry when they have stamina. A level 3 AI was able to cancel my guard break every time I parried them.
3. Guard break is no longer guaranteed during a dodge. The level 3 AI was able to cancel guard break every time I tried to catch him during a dodge.
I think that these changes help break up the immortal defense meta. As parry into guard break is no longer a viable combo, every character has to rely on more of their actual kit.
Not sure how valid the claims are as I haven't gotten the game and the patch notes on the forums don't really mention those. Will probably do a bunch of research (watching strims n shit) on weekend and decide then.
seems legit =D also this game is a delicious salt mine! =D
Hm interesting cause in OB when I learned to counter guard break it would never work if I pressed the button to early. It just worked when I pressed it as soon as the enemy touched me... Just like they say in those links, but that was in OB and not now, so I don´t really get what they are referring too. Don´t have the game either sadly...
so guard break....its soooo needed in this game to break defence but all the maps one shot you on a failed guard break counter.....
also i think warden is completely broken, they can shoulder dash and cancel it into a guard break and you have to guess if they break it or not?
im just doing 1v1 where i only defend, guard break counter is a bit broken. even against the same person at the same timing it sometimes just doesnt work it seems like. still not sure on mouse keyboard vs controller.
controller guard is a bit easier because with the mouse i have the habit of moving it back before the attack hits -.-
did anyone try the valkyrie?
i dont know what the point is, she has ALL defences in the game. perma guard, parry, dodge deflect, omni guard and even the warden counter strike in ALL directions. but those are redundand, dodge deflect and parry and counter strike do all the same thing basically.
Doesn't the guard break nerfs actually make the game more defensive because now you actually have less ways to deal consistent damage. I mean yes it's harder to deal damage out of a defensive stance but it does nothing to actually discourage people from just sitting back and waiting for openings because the defense is still solid as shit.
As expected, i read one review on xone which gave it 4.5/5, yet in the review said nothing about the gamebreaking imbalance between defender vs attacker.
Not a single word. Clueless fucks are what they are lately. World is going to hell. No one can do their job property ffs.
On February 15 2017 17:27 Foxxan wrote: As expected, i read one review on xone which gave it 4.5/5, yet in the review said nothing about the gamebreaking imbalance between defender vs attacker.
Not a single word. Clueless fucks are what they are lately. World is going to hell. No one can do their job property ffs.
First of all,I wouldn't trust a review that is published 1 day after release. One or two days are not enough to assess a game. The imbalance you are talking about is not really a thing for the general public. Most of the people don't even realize that it exists and don't really care. The game actually works, plays smooth, looks good, sometimes it's fun... This is what is most important. The balance of the top tier 1v1 duels is not really a concern for 90+% of the playerbase.
Its about a design flaw in gameplay, a reviewer should mention that. Its not about the "winrate balance" or anything, its that it doesnt work properly and it would need a fix.
First of all,I wouldn't trust a review that is published 1 day after release. One or two days are not enough to assess a game.
I do not trust them at all anylonger because they seem to be clueless about so many things. This just proofs it even further. Thats what the world has gone to, money #1. Work #5 place or something.
Yeah, but the problem is that you are not going to even notice the flaw unless you get to like highlvl 1on1 duels? Was watching a bunch of streams yesterday (guys I wouldnt consider bad at at all, at least waaaay better than me) and the problem was not very apparent in their matches.
edit: I am more worried that the new 3 characters seem to not be balanced very well from what ive seen/heard. edit 2: I am also not saying the problem(s) don't exist, I am just not sure if they are as game breaking as some ppl make it out to be. problem is that its ubisoft and I dont really trust them as I had bad experiences in the psat.
will still stick to my plan on following streams for a while and see if/what ubisoft patches.
I dont buy that that only high tier ppl will see it. High tier ppl might understand why it favors defense and they might be able to express it in words.
But to other people that dont "see" it or cant put words into it, it will affect those as well. Every game you play, this will have impact weather you see it or not.
If you play a game against someone and he opts for defense more than attack. This initself is impacting the gameplay already.
If someone says "attacking can be so hard sometimes", doesnt this have imapct then?
Lets take table tennis. if you do a forehand hit it goes as fast as you hit it. But in this table tennis game you have the wind with you(every player has it) and it hits as fast as you hit but also with a 15% increase. Hit ball->1x->x0.15%. I think this math is correct?
Now you might say that this will only impact the tier 1 players because they hit it so fast so those 15% increse is really impactful. But thats wrong because it affects every single tier of level no matter if one "sees" it or not.
Therefore people will in the end try to hit way more forehands than normal. And some hits even at lower levels will be to fast to block. Isnt this impacting the game then for all tierse?
No because the issue is that defense scales more with skill than attack does. The reason defense has an advantage at top tiers is that they are nailing (nearly) every parry, countering every guard break, and never screwing up their footing. Mind you, even at the top tiers very few if any players are actually perfect at this.
For almost all the rest of us, we miss all of these things occasionally. Feints work, parries get missed, guard breaks or shoulder slams knock up into the environment. Attacking doesn't have this issue... everybody at the mid tier and up can execute all their attack combos reliably, and know how to use mix ups and manage flow.
Again, why doesnt it impact several tier of players? Just because the player doesnt have 90-100% in defense, doesnt mean it will affect the gameplay, weather that person is aware of it or not doesnt matter it affects it.
Tier 1: 90-100% tier 2: 75% tier 3: 45-50%
Look if defense is this good and even with 50% in defense, it will feel as the attacker will have to little power. Also feints as in mindgame should not be to a reliable tool because it will be to much luck invovled in that in the long run.
Thats why its a flaw that needs to be adressed and the attacker needs more power.
Playing warden right now, easy to learn with some fun offensive tactics but im not understanding the best method to fight the assassin classes. I can get in some hits with side swipes and sometimes feinting combos if they run into it but if they play patient and constantly dodge the attacks I bleed health from side attacks. I've heard you're supposed to guard break dodges but typically they're doing a side attack while dodging and I get smacked for it.
Other mu's are making sense but assassin's aren't clicking for me.
Any time I try to jump off the edge to kill people i usually just roll into an invisibile wall
The one thing I really wish they did in this game in terms of just game interest is to start you off with shitty looking gear. Everyone looks like an endgame boss from the get go. Would have given more incentive to play the game if you could actually unlock the cool looking gear.
Guardbreak Counter (All Heroes): Currently you can’t counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta.
I dont understand what this means.
so they are actually planning on fixing some of the issues
Guardbreak Counter (All Heroes): Currently you can’t counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta.
so they are actually planning on fixing some of the issues
I dont see any core fixes here.
1) they did change something with the gb counter timing between open beta and release. i linked like 6 threads about that a while back. 2) not sure what you think a core issue is. i assume its the defense > offense thing. obv is a bugfix / slight balance fix not something touching core mechanics. just happy they are fixing at least that.
think the devs are already busy with bugfixes / release as it is. i wouldnt be keen to change core stuff just after the release if i was in their shoes tbh. feedback from the betas has mostly be good and i am not sure if they even have data suggesting ghat zhere is a problem.
if we are lucky they are aware and design is talking about it, but if they will fix it it will take time. you just dont change some core aspects of the game. that needs to be discussed, implemented and tested. so if they are doing it it will take quite some time. and ghere is a good chance they wont do it.
edit: between discussing if they want zo fix it, how to best fix it, implementing it and testing it i think they would easily need somewhere between a month or two.
Getting pretty boring already this game. The wait-game is really not fun. EDIT: eurogamer touched on the defensive-approach at higher skill levels, impressive.
I'm kind of interested in this game as a pseudo fighting game but I'm worried about defensive turtling and the latency problems. Are there many issues with that in 1v1 and 2v2?
Turtling depends a lot on the matchup. Play the warlord if you don't want to have to deal with that. He basically has a neutral mixup that forces the action, since you can't realistically react to it, even if it's a low damage move.
I don't see it being a problem in the long term. It wouldn't take much to push more action, and they're already committed to at least one more game mode and 6 new characters. I doubt they'd let such a huge issue slide if it starts affecting more players.
30h total gametime pretty much, no network issues at all for me pretty much. I sit at fiber broadband.
The wait-game-passive play in 1v1 occurs like every game for me right now and i have around 50% win rate only.
The first hours feels fun though(10h+ maybe) while you are still learning. And hopefully they try and fix the game over the months to come. Also the theme, the atmosphere feels nice.
On February 18 2017 13:52 CobaltBlu wrote: I'm kind of interested in this game as a pseudo fighting game but I'm worried about defensive turtling and the latency problems. Are there many issues with that in 1v1 and 2v2?
Turtling: Play Warden and it's not really a problem; you have a lot of options to open people up. Other characters vary quite a bit in how much it's a thing; Lawbringer is basically all about parries. But yeah, because you can defend/counter everything if you play well, you pretty much always need to feint when going in, or else trick them into thinking you're gonna feint (not unlike a lot of real fencing).
Latency: So, there's no latency issue. The problem is connectivity; they went with fighting-game style P2P2P2P connections, which is generally quite good for 1v1 and even 2v2. But the nature of it is that if anybody has problems, everybody has to wait a bit. So normally you don't notice in small situations, but in dominion/elimination there are sometimes pauses and very occasionally rewinds. More critical errors are not unheard of; I've gotten "Your ethernet is unplugged" error (incorrectly) before.
I ran into a weird issue, maybe some of you guys can reproduce or explain...
While playing on my laptop (770m, not the steadiest fps, way below recommended), I have a reaallly hard time reacting with simple blocks. I've tested two controllers and different settings, but the issue is the same. On stages where my fps drop below 40, there is a significant delay between block stance changes. You can see it lag behind your input. The window to get hit between a parry and the block also seems bigger. I thought maybe I sucked today, but I tried on my desktop, and blocks are on point. I also almost never get hit between the heavy and the block when I try to parry, and it's easy to confirm combos for the 2nd/3rd hit, no need to mash early.
Basically, the game is unplayable without a steady 60fps. There is a very weird input delay that seems to grow with lower fps. You have to mash a combo before your attack hits if you want it to chain, and if you mash a bit too much, it will throw an attack out after the recovery animation is done. Guard stance changes are delayed, and parries are much less reliable. 40fps looks like it should still be playable, but it isn't. You're at a huge disadvantage for no apparent reason.
No clue why it happens, but I assume there's some people out there who could be a lot better if they simply had more fps.
Worth noting about the network, i found it quite common to play with bots in 4v4 games. Probably to do with the network they use. People can come back into the game sometimes but it still happens quite regularly it seems. EDIT: also i have read the forums quite a bit and some people have a really hard time just connecting at all
Turtling: Play Warden and it's not really a problem; you have a lot of options to open people up
No he dont and its still a problem even for warden.
EDIT: Alright, the shouldercharge fake into GB can be rather powerful i guess. This might be the only thing that can break through the defence in the game. If true what ive read since i havent practiced against it much, its a really poor gamedesign since the opponent have to guess if its a shouldercharge or a GB(?)
And iam pretty sure you cant block a GB while you are dodging.
EDIT: just find a guy in match making, you might be able to defend against this 100%. Not sure yet.
At a decent level I feel no class can sufficiently stop the 1v1 turtle fest style with the games current mechanics.
Edit: Had a text wall here about how defense is too good but I think it's basically already all been talked about enough. In the end I feel like if the game stays the same way where feinting is the only real way to break a good defense the game is going to be come really stale really quick. It's disappointing because I feel like this games has potential to be VERY fun but right now it's hampered.
I'm also not exactly sure what they mean when they say they are returning GBs back to the way it was in the beta so maybe that will help things a bit. Right now GB's are shockingly easy to counter once you learn when your opponents can best utilize them. I've never played a game with a throw mechanic where i find myself literally just waiting to actually do the input to make sure i hit the counter at the right time.
If Ubisoft says theyll keep adding some things and perhaps do some tweaks I'm definitely willing to keep interest because in the end it's still a fun enough game despite it's flaws.
In beta, it was as easy to block GBs if i remember correctly. Maybe slightly harder actually but its nothing major as far as my concerns. Also if they make it to hard the game would still be stale.
The game as of right now feels very stale to me iam afraid. Damn. This was my go to game in beta actually, it dropped down fast to this level of feel.
In beta, if both used GB at the same time, it would cancel each other out. Currently, if you do that, the faster animation wins. This heavily favors some classes, and is a mess to balance. I think the timing to tech after the grab hit was shorter as well, but I'm not 100% on that. But if it wasn't the case, they'll have to shorten it at some point as GB will be close to 100% even at mid-level of plays.
As for the turtling, iSkys went something ridiculous like 92-0 yesterday in duels and brawls, and there was very little turtling. The top classes all have unblockables that force the action, and the environment forces you to move around. It get a bit stale at highish levels of play, but between feints, unblockables, misleading zone attacks and quick lights, there's enough to keep good players active.
Can you give link to stream? Also unblockables can be parried and they are usually easy to parry cuz they have huge attack animation. So in general they suck big time to "open" up the defence. Some have charge type of unblockables and they can get dodged and they arent hard either to dodge.
I still dont buy that it gets stales at highest level of play. I sit at 50%+ winrate and its stale even for me. You poke with some light attacks here and there but overall its a stale game as of now, thats pretty much what you do. Your hard attacks is a no-no. They usually get parried and only in my dream i can hit a 2combo with them(its rare but it can happen).
I googled iskys for honor stream, i skimped though some streams. He plays mostly 2v2? Please link duel 1v1 then. Also what i saw if it is the correct person he wasnt "high tier" even. His defence was poor. Also his opponents looked kinda poor as well.
He should be on in a few hours for 8h+. He's the best streamer I've seen so far, definitely the best Warden. He might not be tournament level, but the fact he won every single game he played yesterday would make it hard to improve past that point.
This would also indicate that turtling is not much of an issue online, which should be good enough for 99% of players.
The issues with the core systems of this game are pretty well documented here. I'm having fun enough with the game as it is but I do wish they had spent a little more time looking at the core mechanics of other fighting games. You can correct me if I'm wrong but there doesn't seem like you can be at advantage after having any attack blocked (edit: parried). It seems like it is always the opponents turn after an attack. Frame traps and some other ways to open opponents up would be appreciated. Also environmental deaths are dumb in 1v1. This game could really improve with some refinements!
On February 20 2017 01:56 Foxxan wrote: 99%, and you say that after watching this guy play 2v2.
What's wrong with 2v2? I've found it the most consistent fun (though I definitely enjoy 1v1 and Dominion). It also feels like I'm learning the most; you get to fight two opponents a lot of the time, and if you die you get to spectate.
On February 20 2017 01:56 Foxxan wrote: 99%, and you say that after watching this guy play 2v2.
What's wrong with 2v2? I've found it the most consistent fun (though I definitely enjoy 1v1 and Dominion). It also feels like I'm learning the most; you get to fight two opponents a lot of the time, and if you die you get to spectate.
If iam allowed to speculate, the people that play 1v1 are the more competetive skilled people that really want to improve. At the same time, 2v2 is different as well, you can attack the same target for example. Its a pretty big difference between the two so talking about the core gameplay after having watched a person playing 2v2 and doesnt really defend well either is kinda giving wrong information.
You can correct me if I'm wrong but there doesn't seem like you can be at advantage after having any attack blocked (edit: parried). It seems like it is always the opponents turn after an attack. Frame traps and some other ways to open opponents up would be appreciated. Also environmental deaths are dumb in 1v1
Correct about the parried part. Many things to be done here for the developers. Also agree with the environment thing in 1v1, some maps are just awful for that mode.
I'm having fun. The people who are obsessed with 1v1 seem to be having a bad time of it, but the game is enjoyable. The only issue I have is people running around a lot looking for cheap shots in the 4v4s, rather than fighting. I wish it was easier to knock people over when they are running at full tilt.
On February 20 2017 06:31 farvacola wrote: So is this game worth getting now or should I wait to see if devs make the necessary changes?
If iam allowed to give a more "depth" answer here. The atmosphere and theme is nice, animatons are top notch which do matter in gameplay alot imo. The music feels fitting, its not like iam thinking to much about the music which might be a good sign, although i have some background music aswell but overall i guess the music do feels nice.
The modes feels decent so far. It has 1v1,2v2 and 4v4. And three different modes with the 4v4. If you mix them up and not only focus on lets say duel(1v1) i think you can enjoy the game for quite many hours, 30h+ or something. Or maybe much higher even.
If you however only focus on 1v1 you might get tired of it, but i say might. The first hours are fun no matter what, atleast 10 or 15h of enjoyment. It might get diminshed quite hard if you reach a decent+ level and face people that really knows how to defend while you defend well as well.
It has some core gameplay issues which as been talked about and some other stuff might need refinement aswell. The other issue which isnt talked about is the peer-to-peer network which causes issues for some people(big issues from what i have heard for some). Also the other thing which hasnt been mentioned with the network is that it might affect people with good pings as well.
So from what i have heard is that everyone has atleast 100 ping because thats what happens with peer-to-peer and that can be quite high if you are to BLOCK or parry an attack that needs a very high reflection. So sometimes you need a reflex that really needs a good ping.
From what i saw on the forums, there might be issues here when you "block" sometimes. Ubisoft is looking into it. So it might be another "big" issue that needs a fix. What that issue is isnt doesnt really anyone know as of yet.
Still looks to be another issue.. Another core issue that is.
So for me, the game has actually been worth it(i sit at a really good broadband) and i do enjoy even doing duels right now aswell. I played yesterday and i thought to myself, lets just try and improve even further and it helped that i faced plenty of people that couldnt defend well either. I think the matchmaking might be a bit off, meaning you dont really face people with your skill.. And/or the matchmaking doesnt know what type of skill someone has either.
So again, if you do face people that knows how to play "properly" and it becomes stale and such. You have the opportunity to just leave after 1 game and queue again aswell. And 2v2 and 4v4 is very different from 1v1 since you can gang up on someone pretty easy. Worth noting also is that when you play the 4v4 modes, an a.i bot replacing the human is quite common. However, the human can replace the bot again. Some games you play with a bot the entire game for example, it can kinda ruin that mode when this happens.
Also what i felt for this game i have not felt for a game maybe ever.
On February 20 2017 11:07 ShoCkeyy wrote: Quick thought about the game? So far it seems like everyone is enjoying it?
The game is good. The 1v1 match ups need some tweeking as is with any game, but that will get ironed out. Some classes fell a little hard pressed to dump damage in the 4v4 match ups. There are some classes that are just annoying to fight against, like the orochi, mostly due to being dull as bricks. The 1v1 duel system has a problem that it drops you back to the menus between each match and it doesn’t get you back into the game fast enough. Running is also an issue that it is easier to run away with little risk, which leads to some dumb stuff in the team based modes. I would prefer there be more risk to running.
But most of these are minor quibbles. There is some real fun in the 4v4 match ups. Like holding off 2 people on a point for 30-45 seconds while you wait for your team mates, which is deeply rewarding. Or saving your stunned teammate from death with a well placed shield rush(the shield rush never gets old).
I would also point out that a lot of 2v2s have just been two sets of 1v1 duels. I would say about 50% of my games have my opponents not teaming up against me, but just waiting for the duel to end and then jumping in after that. Of course some people gang up, but the game has a system that makes going 2v1 high risk if they can get their revenge meter filled. There is also “friendly fire” in the game where you can stagger your team mates.
For people wondering about the game there is quite a lot of value to be had just spending time learning the different characters. I think the gameplay is deep enough that learning the different characters will improve your game and is fun in its own right.
On February 21 2017 00:46 CobaltBlu wrote: For people wondering about the game there is quite a lot of value to be had just spending time learning the different characters. I think the gameplay is deep enough that learning the different characters will improve your game and is fun in its own right.
Seconded. Practicing the many matchups against bots is a really good excercise that will make you a lot better in the real game.
Fun stuff but the tutorial is not telling you shit and the stuff it tells you, it tells you twice.... I also would like a bit more "combofreedom", combos feel really "hardwritten" but i'm still absolute trash so i shouldn't even comment on that
On February 21 2017 02:38 Velr wrote: Also got it.
Fun stuff but the tutorial is not telling you shit and the stuff it tells you, it tells you twice.... I also would like a bit more "combofreedom", combos feel really "hardwritten" but i'm still absolute trash so i shouldn't even comment on that
I don't think the tutorial properly teaches you how to parry or feint which are pretty important things.
Anyone have a good clue about the dismantle gear thing? When i quit the game and goes back in, my gear says 0/60, does that mean my gear got automatically dismantled? Anyone know if you can dismantle manually several items at a time?
I really enjoy for honor when it's against the classes that have ways to open you up with their offensive tools. Warden vs Peacekeeper is an incredibly fun matchup.
Playing Halberdguy only... Its so awesome if you duel someone, have no clue what their char can do and get trashed...1-2 losses later you figure it out and make them ragequit 3-4 games later because they are actually totally terrible and you just kick their asses 3 times in a row :D
But i'm still totally terrible, because... They say parrying is important, i'm still happy if i can just dodge/block in time
Playing berseker in 4v4 elimination mode, slaughtering noobs here and there, making a blood bath feels nice i admit. Iam also one of those none-honor fucks. I will kill you if i get the opportunity.
They need a spectator challenge mode where 8 people can be in a match and you step into the ring of battle, 1v1. No interference. Or maybe you can push people if they get to close to the edge.
I would also settle for a tag team mode, pro wrestling style. You heal slowly when out of the ring.
On February 23 2017 05:44 CobaltBlu wrote: It would be nice if they could do something about orochi that just run away forever.
I am glad I am not the only one experiencing that class running around and trying to dump a single hit into you, follow by them running away to do it again.
I can see this game become a great esport game. I can see this game be my best game i have ever played. On top of that, a game i actually considder very good to.
But its all in ubisofts hands. Can they do it? Will they do it? I have no freaking idea. These 3-4 months from now will determine what track they do, if there are fail patches then its best to uninstall, they will most likely never change their direction after those months :S
On February 23 2017 00:22 Plansix wrote: They need a spectator challenge mode where 8 people can be in a match and you step into the ring of battle, 1v1. No interference. Or maybe you can push people if they get to close to the edge.
I would also settle for a tag team mode, pro wrestling style. You heal slowly when out of the ring.
Yeah I really wish the game had some sort of team tournament style mode where it whittles down the amount of people playing until it's just 1v1 for all the marbles with everyone watching.
On February 23 2017 00:22 Plansix wrote: They need a spectator challenge mode where 8 people can be in a match and you step into the ring of battle, 1v1. No interference. Or maybe you can push people if they get to close to the edge.
I would also settle for a tag team mode, pro wrestling style. You heal slowly when out of the ring.
Yeah I really wish the game had some sort of team tournament style mode where it whittles down the amount of people playing until it's just 1v1 for all the marbles with everyone watching.
I would like to see that in engine, because it would be awesome. But I don’t know what the game is capable and if they can have 16 character models in the same game space.
I think there are a lot of fun, cool things they could do if they lean into the social aspect. Even Darksouls has people who love to duel.
That wrestling idea sounds cool, didnt understand it until now. Also something i really would like myself is that mode from tekken and also bw, sc2 had it.
4v4 for example, and then two players start. Winner stands. Could be 2v2,3v3,4v4, ye you get it for this game.
Just not ending the session between matches would be awesome. There was this really cool mode in Killzone 3(?) that kept everyone on the same map and just rotated/shuffled game types on that map. It even shuffled teams between rounds.
I did not say that. It is hard to know what will hit and what won’t. Creating cool things is hard, especially when you are trying new things, rather than grinding out another Call of Duty. That Killzone rotating game modes was never featured in another game to that level.
The Ubisoft UI designer has been the bane of everyone's existence for a long time. So many diamond shaped icons. However, that is a pretty thankless job at a video game company, so I'll be happy if they just take some feedback.
Ok just bought it, only 150€, unlocks full game. A good price. Lets see how it is then. If it suck, well, then terrorist hunt might be fun, liked it before many years ago.
Really crossing my fingers for for honor, damn ubisoft, you have gold in your hands dont fucking make it sugar
It's a bit strange but I think dominion is the game mode I enjoy the least but it seems like it is what Ubi wants to promote the most. What I really want is a battle lounge system where I can challenge other people in the room to fights. Don't see that happening though.
Dominion is passable if people hold points and try to defend things. But it is the worst when teams run between points. I think they could add some UI features to single when a teammate is holding a point and how many opponents they are up against. But that mode needs tweeking, because everyone just runs to the middle and fights the goons.
The gpons are also way too weak. You don't oneshot minions in mobas for a reason... it doesn't even feel "dynasty warriors" awesome slicing thru them, its just annoying.
hey guys quick question. i play a peacekeeper but when i try stabbing someone three times i only stab him once. i seen people stab 3 times tho. what am i doing wrong? im on ps4 so i hit square then R1 to stab and even if i press R1 R1 R1 it doesnt do the 3 stabs....
What is the original beta behavior of guard break? I'm worried they didn't do anything to make defense worse. It is like they thought people wouldn't have the reactions.
On February 28 2017 03:28 CobaltBlu wrote: What is the original beta behavior of guard break? I'm worried they didn't do anything to make defense worse. It is like they thought people wouldn't have the reactions.
If you both guard break at the same time, they canceled out. Now its sort of random. It’s a buff for defensive classes that rely on canceling out guard breaks.
this is a really good game that has potential to be amazing if they fix defensive play being too strong, at the higher levels 1v1 is sometimes rather boring due to it being a feint or charge fest (some classes are fine, but then you've got Conqueror and Warlord who are both really boring and cancerous to watch and play against)
I do recommed it though if you're looking for a fun 1v1 and 2v2 experience. I don't play 4v4 all that much but I've heard there are some connectivity issues there
They have acknowledged the big defence/attack on ubisoft forums, however, i dont like some of their suggestions there. I do not want to play a rock/paper/scissor game, i want a reactionbased game where everything can be defended. No free-damage we have from parrying and dodging.
They need some form of chip damage or you get people blocking in the corner like in fighting games. There are plenty of moves in fighting games that are not always “safe” and it does turn into mind games and “rock paper scissors”
The shield classes need to be giving a little more offense and have their defensive reigned in. I play the conqueror a lot he is so sluggish that you almost always feel like you have to turtle. You can’t feign either, which might be the problem.
Mind games and feints are core of most fighting games once you can execute. That is the promised land for any 1v1 game, where it is all about the players out witting each other.
On February 28 2017 07:24 Plansix wrote: Mind games and feints are core of most fighting games once you can execute. That is the promised land for any 1v1 game, where it is all about the players out witting each other.
Can you translate execute for me in terms of figting games. Also why is that so relevant? Just because its like that in those games, it doesnt mean its the best method.
In for honor, there is literally no tactic now. And you dont want to make for honor tactic based?
Execute = preform the giving moves/combos at all times. They will also get the combo off if they find an opening. And their opponent knows this and works to not present an opening for them to preform the combo/move. So the game becomes about creating that opening for themselves. That is why "canceling" is so important in those games, because they can fake out their opponents. All fighting games will be focused on out thinking your opponent once everyone gets a grip on the match ups.
In street fighter, they throw fireballs to force a response.
Like some small about of feitning/mindgame, sure, we cant remove that since we are humans but have that type of attacking dominant would feel very wrong.
On February 28 2017 07:34 Plansix wrote: Execute = preform the giving moves/combos at all times. They will also get the combo off if they find an opening. And their opponent knows this and works to not present an opening for them to preform the combo/move. So the game becomes about creating that opening for themselves. That is why "canceling" is so important in those games, because they can fake out their opponents. All fighting games will be focused on out thinking your opponent once everyone gets a grip on the match ups.
In street fighter, they throw fireballs to force a response.
Alright. So the Difference between regular fighting games and for honor is that you can parry the opponent here i guess? Parrying can switch the initaive instead of giving free daamge which would lead to it being okay if your opponent combos you.
I guess in tekken you can parry but its inconsistent, so i wouldnt say those are similar
It depends on the version of the fighting game. SF has had several versions of defense, including counters and parrying. The most consistent part of fighting games is that blocking(pressing back), inflicts a small delay on the attackers next attack. But the defendant takes chip damage almost all the time. But at its core, it is about managing distance and creating openings to chain combos.
I would prefer if the chip damage was based on each class too. That way defensive classes can't be spammed down as a practice. Of course full parrys would take no damage, because that requires you to execute.
They need some form of chip damage or you get people blocking in the corner like in fighting games. There are plenty of moves in fighting games that are not always “safe” and it does turn into mind games and “rock paper scissors”
But in tekken, everything is defendable, yet its hard to defend against all sorts of attacks. In tekken, taking the initaitve to being the attacker is encouraged. In For honor its not encouraged one bit.
Chip damage feels abusive to me. Just attack without brain or execution or anything, just spam the opponent and win. However, if the opponent parries you, even your light attacks you are at square 1 again. Meaning, you cant do anything.
I want to feel good about attacking. Right now doing a duel is very boring. If we look at boxing, irl boxing. You have tactics how you execute your combos, you have hard hits, you have pokes. Reflexes, footwork.
Why cant for honor be like that. That you have to earn your damage.
On February 28 2017 07:49 Plansix wrote: I would prefer if the chip damage was based on each class too. That way defensive classes can't be spammed down as a practice. Of course full parrys would take no damage, because that requires you to execute.
In my mind. This design would not change what i feel for honor, would still feel really bad to play the game. But sure, stick with it and if they implement it, we will see.
They need some form of chip damage or you get people blocking in the corner like in fighting games. There are plenty of moves in fighting games that are not always “safe” and it does turn into mind games and “rock paper scissors”
Chip damage feels abusive to me. Just attack without brain or execution or anything, just spam the opponent and win. However, if the opponent parries you, even your light attacks you are at square 1 again. Meaning, you cant do anything.
That isn't really how it works in fighting games. It is just a cost of being super defensive and a way to beat someone of you have a life lead and trap them in the corner.
Personally I still think the guard break system is the most janky thing about it. Why is the throw mechanic so amazingly safe to throw out and also so amazingly easy to counter? It practically seems pointless to even have it. Just a quicktime event you hope someone fucks up on. It dissuades people doing certain moves or back dashing in certain points of a battle, but what in the end does that even accomplish overall when all the other defensive options still exist?
It may also be a good idea to have defenders lose some stamina when blocking. Heavy strikes at least. Chip damage wouldn't be a problem because every system in the game is skewed towards defender right now. Even meter gain.
Idk, feels super weird to be that combos arent available and instead of fixing that, lets add chip damage. Will still suck to play the game if thats the only thing that is changing. While we are at it, defending will still be super easy its just that when you block you take damage.
Like nothing is changing except making attacking a forced move and defending not rewarded enough. Want to swing a heavy? Well you cant cuz you will get parried.
So doing a heavy is impossible. Only left is those light poke attacks. What a tremdnous fun gameplay we have here guys.
On February 28 2017 07:03 Plansix wrote: They need some form of chip damage or you get people blocking in the corner like in fighting games. There are plenty of moves in fighting games that are not always “safe” and it does turn into mind games and “rock paper scissors”
The shield classes need to be giving a little more offense and have their defensive reigned in. I play the conqueror a lot he is so sluggish that you almost always feel like you have to turtle. You can’t feign either, which might be the problem.
I mean, to be fair, there is chip damage in this game; it's just not much. There's even stats for it in gear: "Block Damage" and "Block Damage Resist."
On February 28 2017 09:53 Foxxan wrote: Idk, feels super weird to be that combos arent available and instead of fixing that, lets add chip damage. Will still suck to play the game if thats the only thing that is changing. While we are at it, defending will still be super easy its just that when you block you take damage.
Like nothing is changing except making attacking a forced move and defending not rewarded enough. Want to swing a heavy? Well you cant cuz you will get parried.
So doing a heavy is impossible. Only left is those light poke attacks. What a tremdnous fun gameplay we have here guys.
heavies are in general harder to punish then lights - as Nobushi for example, you very often get literally nothing out of a parried heavy, but get either a free GB or top heavy out of a parried light
chip damage wouldn't change that much, as lights are very often parried at a high level
Having done a lot of 1v1 with the conquerer, not being able to feint makes that class to defensive. The other shield classes are acceptable, but that just lacks the tools to fake someone out. The class needs something like the warden’s shoulder charge that can be canceled.
On February 28 2017 09:53 Foxxan wrote: Idk, feels super weird to be that combos arent available and instead of fixing that, lets add chip damage. Will still suck to play the game if thats the only thing that is changing. While we are at it, defending will still be super easy its just that when you block you take damage.
Like nothing is changing except making attacking a forced move and defending not rewarded enough. Want to swing a heavy? Well you cant cuz you will get parried.
So doing a heavy is impossible. Only left is those light poke attacks. What a tremdnous fun gameplay we have here guys.
heavies are in general harder to punish then lights - as Nobushi for example, you very often get literally nothing out of a parried heavy, but get either a free GB or top heavy out of a parried light
chip damage wouldn't change that much, as lights are very often parried at a high level
This further illustrates my point that chip damage wont make the gameplay healthy. What this game needs is a healthy interraction. Which right now is really poor.
I get my attack parried->i get stunned for x time and cant do anything. Bad interaction. I hit a light attack->either parried or blocked->poor design, there is no back and forth here. Thats what a game like this needs(and many other games for that matter).
I could write an essay here but i dont wanna bore you all.
I just want to see attacks sped up a bit in general and maybe having some more combo potential. For example as a warden, I've got the usual overhead/zone (mixup's/feints into crushing counterstrike) but the only other effective tools using your longsword seems to be whiffed side light into overhead light attack. Most other characters are much limited and worse off than a warden to initiate some offense using their weapon and not a guard break or charge ability.
Some interesting data from a 1on1 US online tournament held over the last two days:
Its been 256 Attendees, the hero distribution, looked like this (rounded): Orochi 17% Warden 14% Nobushi 11% Peacekeeper 11% Conqueror 9% Warlord 9% Shugoki 5% Kensei 5% Valkyrie 5% Berzerker 4,5% Lawbringer 4,5% Raider 4,5%
When it went to the Ro32, there where no Lawbringer, Kensei or Orochi(!) left. In the Ro16 following Heros where left: 6xConqueror , 3xPeacekeeper, 3xWarlord , 3x Warden and 1 Shugoki Ro8: 1 Warden, 1 Warlord, 2 Peacekeeper and 4 Conqueror Ro4: 1 Warlord, 2 Peacekeeper and 1 Conqueror
Makes sense, although I'm surprised more Wardens didn't do well.
Also makes sense that Orochi's totally flopped out despite having the most players. I don't understand why anyone thinks Orochi's are even good, let alone too good. Everything they do is very telegraphed and all you have to do is guard break them over and over until they die of frustration IRL.
I'd like to see some of that tourney... I can only assume it was a defensive snore fest but it would still be interesting i guess.
How do they determine how to invite to these tournaments? SonicFox has been playing and streaming this game a bit which is kind of interesting. He is practicing doing something strange with the taunt animations.
On March 01 2017 13:15 DannyJ wrote: I'd like to see some of that tourney... I can only assume it was a defensive snore fest but it would still be interesting i guess.
I thought it was pretty neat. A lot of playstyle variation.
On March 01 2017 13:15 DannyJ wrote: Makes sense, although I'm surprised more Wardens didn't do well.
Also makes sense that Orochi's totally flopped out despite having the most players. I don't understand why anyone thinks Orochi's are even good, let alone too good. Everything they do is very telegraphed and all you have to do is guard break them over and over until they die of frustration IRL.
I'd like to see some of that tourney... I can only assume it was a defensive snore fest but it would still be interesting i guess.
try to look up dmbrandon on twitch.tv think he was casting parts of the tournament.
On March 01 2017 13:46 CobaltBlu wrote: How do they determine how to invite to these tournaments? SonicFox has been playing and streaming this game a bit which is kind of interesting. He is practicing doing something strange with the taunt animations.
I think ppl could just sign up for it. so i guess first come first serve?
In terms of people to watch (including a lot of livestreamed/commented tournament footage) Extheleon is a very strong warden who talks a lot about his thought process. He kinda hilariously threw in the match he got eliminated though, by playing a level 2 (not rep 2, just level 2) peacekeeper to try to make a point.
On March 01 2017 13:15 DannyJ wrote: I'd like to see some of that tourney... I can only assume it was a defensive snore fest but it would still be interesting i guess.
I thought it was pretty neat. A lot of playstyle variation.
The higher level play is not defensive at all with some of the classes. The conq and warlord are both pretty defensive, but do involve a lot of shield bashing and pushing. Conq is likely the worst of the cases because it requires the player to be so passive and force errors. Warlord is just a lot of pushing people into things.
On February 28 2017 22:58 Plansix wrote: Having done a lot of 1v1 with the conquerer, not being able to feint makes that class to defensive. The other shield classes are acceptable, but that just lacks the tools to fake someone out. The class needs something like the warden’s shoulder charge that can be canceled.
You can feint with conq :D Basicly Heavy>Te Affigam>Light. But it costs too much stamina. Also having second slowest attack speed (18 Frame) doesn't help. Also canceling shoulder bash is cancerous. It creates a 50/50 wortex and no way to punish it.
About defensive play... It may sound weird but actually a simple change can turn this game to much aggresive gameplay. Just think about "cannot regen stamina while dodging" and "cannot spam dodge while exhausted" (You cannot let dodge costs stamina due to assasin classes. They rely on dodges)
This way stamina actually starts to mean something and there is a lot of punishment against exhausted enemies. Due to nature of dodges, you can do everything except attacking and running while exhausted.
Agreed. Running away with the faster classes is way to effective. I would prefer that stamina did not regen unless you were playing defensively and just blocking.
I wish the conq were better in 1v1 duels, but its mostly boring to play. Its fun in the other modes, but does so little damage unless you are charge that attack. I really want a shield bash that combos off the light attack, rather than the heavy.
Running away with the Orochi is my least favorite tactic in this game. That class is cancer on no many levels, even though it is terrible. Even its guard break is annoyingly fast.
Conq has the lowest light attack damage (15), Conq has the lowest heavy attack damage (25), Conq has second slowest attack speed on his light attacks (18 frames)
Yet... According to "Tier lists" Conq is 4th in 1v1 modes and 2nd in dominions. I can understand dominion part. You can go to minions, go 3v1 and win thanks to revenge (Heavy>SB>Heavy kills every single assasin) but... In duels Conq is soo weak. Every attack can easily parried. I have no idea why "pros" say Conq is stronk :D
Conqueror is insanely strong in duels, he's boring and linear but very good at a few things. He gets easy confirm's off of shield bashes and can stifle almost any offense with his shield properties + full shield stance.
As for DannyJ's comments about the warden. He's strong versus 80% of the cast but is not so hot vs conq/warlord/PK. For example, conq's who full shield stance after a shoulder bash by warden will negate your follow up double light attack and stick you straight back to neutral.
I started playing orochi and he's such a strange character. He can absolutely own people who don't know what they are doing but vs competent people I had super issues. I usually play Shugoki and all I'd do vs Orochi is basically not attack them until they killed themselves against a wall or something and it really just seems like a theme vs them for most classes. Annoyingly though they also seem to have a really difficult time vs feints as well since they are so dependent on parrying or deflecting to actually deliver damage. Perhaps i'm just too obsessed with deflecting and parrying but it just seems like that's nearly the only way to actually get in on good people to deliver damage. Everything else he has seems so predictable and slow that it's hard to to open people up. The only real fast multiple hit move is the SUPER predictable top light attack. Feinting of course can get you in but if it doesnt work his stamina and HP pool are so low it's kind of terrifying to do it too much. He definitely plays differently from the other classes I've played and pretty frustrating when playing anyone who is competent enough simply to guard break well. Obviously I must be missing stuff too but sheesh...
For whatever it's worth, the Klyka videos are pretty useful to talk about techniques. He has guests on who are actually good with the class (he's personally not) and are often tourney winners/placers. It's a good systematic overview that helped me learn the heroes I'm less familiar with from the point of view of a top player.
Warden: Keep your block at top. Ready to defend your left (Just incase possible zone attacks) Your shield bash has much less windup then Warden's. You can abuse it. They like to do "GB>Left Heavy>Second Left Heavy>Feint> Zone attack" Don't try to parry secondary heavies!
Conq: Its mirrror.
PK: Keep your block at right at all times! That stupid annoying light attack spam is so hard to defend. Turtle and only block her attacks. A simple block can stop her chain. Generally I whiff my first heavy hit in Reaper's Crush chain (Heavy>Heavy) and bait for second hit. Also you can abuse full charged flail range.
LB: Keep your block at top. Who attacks first gonna lose this match. He is looking for parries and your attacks are so slow. His shove is faster then Shield bash. Try to use Shield Riposte instead of regular shield bash to force him to back against wall. (But be careful, Riposte cost a lot of stamina)
Raider: Keep block at top. I don't believe anyone has problem against them. He is legendary after all.
Warlord: Pain... If he is noob and tries heavies for trade you can go charging parry trick (Basicly instead of simple clicking at the parry moment, you keep clicking heavy button. This way even tho you fail to parry you can keep blocking. Its much much more safer. But unfortunately if you make a habit of it you will fail with other classes) If he goes for headbutt, you can fight with your shield bash. Still.... Warlord is too good atm.
Berserker: Its all about reading your opponents mind. His feints are the best. If you fail to read and go for a parry, he will have free guardbreak. Focus shield bash>light attacks. His dodge attacks always came from same side. Left dodge will be followed by left attack.
Valkyrie: Keep block at top. Careful about her new comboes. Never ever fight when you back to a wall. If she somehow corner you, never try to attack just focus on get out of there. (She can get 60-65 dmg from one combo)
Kensei. Keep block at top. NEVER EVER try to parry his heavies (except unblockable If you parry his heavies you cannot get a free GB due to his long range. Just block and throw your charged attack. His dodge will be followed by other side attack (Left dodge means right attack)
Shugoki: Another pain. Even harder then Warlord. You must cancel his armor with gb. Even countered gb's can take armour off. Goodluck with his charged headbutt :D
Orochi: Keep block at top. Easier to deal then PK. His dodge will be followed by same side attack (Left dodge means left attack). You can abuse whiffed heavy > second heavy combo. (Unfortunately newly discovered unlock "tech" gives him unparriable, wrongly indicated heavy attacks. I hope someday ubisoft fix it)
Nobushi: Your fully charged attacks can outrange her. Also use regular shield bash instead of shield reposte get close to her. Her dodge will be followed by an heavy from other side or easy from same side. Generally don't try to parry her lights. If you miss your parry, she will poison you and even you get a parry she is so far away to get GB'ed. But its safe to parry her heavies (Especially followed after a dodge)
There is a good sized core of very ardent supporters, and I strongly suspect that means the game will last a reasonable length of time. It's got that learning curve thing... gameplay is very different as a newbie (half of them miss the advanced tutorial), an intermediate player (yay I can feint/parry!) and an advanced player (who always say "never parry" but parry all the time so clearly they mean "only parry when you've read the future.) But the Klyka videos and a lot of guides can be really helpful.
Incidentally, did anyone catch that 2v2 tournament? (Extheleon's POV of one match) I thought it was really interesting. None of the goofiness that is Dominion, but a really dynamic interaction between the fighters. Brawl has long been my personal favorite mode, and now I'm very interested in it as a longer-run possibility. It's cool because it forces a lot of aggression, and indeed enables it with 2-person combos.
The better you get, the worse the game gets. iam at the point where the game is total crap to play and this is ocming from someone that could considder this game the best in the world
This reminds me a lot of crpg mod in mountain blade warband. It's not an entirely new genre just way more mainstream and advertised take on something that already existed. Still cool though.
After following the developers for a while now, iam expecting the "major" patch that will change the mechanics of the game.
If they do fail which i expect(why should i expect anything else really?) i have one more hope for a skillbased 1v1 melee medieval game: website: https://mordhau.com/
Tutorial/whats it about:
It looks promising, and not "even" in alpha yet. From experience though developers use the word beta and alpha frequently with not many changes overall.
Yeah I'm interested to see where Mordhau goes. Looks interesting.
Also, For Honor just had its first new characters added this week! Centurion (disabler, ultra-aggressive, really counter to lots of turtlers) and Shinobi (ultra-agile ninja). You can get them for in-game money. Also two new maps and a lot more gear stuff, with major changes to the gear system to tone it down. I honestly haven't really gotten the hang of fighting either of the new heroes yet... I die without touching them like I used to against Orochis.
PTR at end of month will have the "balance meta patch". Also, that patch will add 1v1 tournament mode, and some more things. Seems more changes are planned than what i will write here, exluding the ones i forget.
From what i remember: Parry: Guardbreak no longer guaranteed Lightattack guaranteed(mostly) Drains alot more stamina(unclear of whom) Parrying to early opens up your defence, meaning, you wont be able to block the next attack in time etc. Overall, using parry will be a bit harder.
Stamina: When out of stamina, you are in way more danger than now. In live version, you are really not in any danger. You wont be able to parry and attack(i think). Blocking is possible but it will stop your stamina regeneration.
When out of stamina, and you run away. You will not regenerate stamina at all(in 4v4 mode) until you engage in combat again. To stop the abuse of running away.
Chip damage: 18% chip damage at all attacks. Light, heavy. For all chars(it seems). Before it were from 2-10% chip damage. In duel(1v1) i believe it was 0% chip damage.
Revenge: Removed from duel mode. Cant be interrupted by anything. Before you could appaerantly be interrupted by crowd control. Your attacks cant be parried when in revenge mode. Your shield will be bigger.
I did forget some but not to many. Overall they didnt show us much about the patch imo. Either way, they said they will have a blog up next weekend for full patch notes(hopefully there are much more to the defensive meta patch)
EPT![[image loading]](http://static9.cdn.ubisoft.com/resource/en-US/game/forhonor/game/BOW016B_Harrowgate_Overcast_samurai_bad_odds_208402.jpg)
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