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I'm not going to give Bethesda shit for fucking up their first foray into designing FPS combat. Everyone's going to make mistakes their first time designing in a new genre.
I AM going to give them shit for keeping VATS in FO4 because as I outlined before, I feel that VATS is a fundamentally broken mechanic that systematically undermines all the reasons to have FPS combat in the first place. Barring some drastic redesign of how VATS works that wasn't apparent in the footage so far, it's going to carry over the same faults from FO3.
Again, the idea that VATS is fundamentally flawed or broken is not some outrageous Bethesda hate--mods that rebalance or remove it are among the most popular gameplay mods for FO3; many people who even liked FO3 chose not to use VATS or used mods to significantly change it to make it more palatable.
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On June 20 2015 03:18 TheYango wrote:
I'm not going to give Bethesda shit for fucking up their first foray into designing FPS combat. Everyone's going to make mistakes their first time designing in a new genre.
I AM going to give them shit for keeping VATS in FO4 because as I outlined before, I feel that VATS is a fundamentally broken mechanic that systematically undermines all the reasons to have FPS combat in the first place. Barring some drastic redesign of how VATS works that wasn't apparent in the footage so far, it's going to carry over the same faults from FO3.
Again, the idea that VATS is fundamentally flawed or broken is not some outrageous Bethesda hate--mods that rebalance or remove it are among the most popular gameplay mods for FO3; many people who even liked FO3 chose not to use VATS or used mods to significantly change it to make it more palatable.
The reason VATS is there is so Bethesda can say: "Look, character attributes and skills DO still matter in FO4! Your level in perception and gun skills influence how accurate you can hit the enemy in VATS!" So FO4 isn't turning into COD: Wasteland Edition (yet).
And don't even get me started on melee combats rofl.
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On June 20 2015 00:34 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote:On June 18 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 08:27 Reaps wrote:
Yeah doom graphics looked awful, and lets type "lol" at the end of each sentence, it may help to make my point.
lol. doom graphics looked great for their time, and doom 3 tried to push the envelope. but okay dude. Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 08:15 TheYango wrote:
Once upon a time, there was a game called TES2: Daggerfall.
All told, the game was pretty mediocre, but it tried a lot of really amazing things. The game world was one of the largest that's ever been in a game, and while core dungeons and landmarks were hand-crafted, a lot of towns and side-dungeons were procedurally-generated. To give you an example of the scale, world generation creates a world that has ~15,000 towns and ~750,000 NPCs, and that's 10,000x the land area of Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Of course, the technology of 1996 was nowhere near good enough to make that kind of dynamic world have any real depth. But there was ambition there that made you think "in 10 years, if they make another game like this, it's going to be fucking awesome".
Then Morrowind came out. The world was tiny, none of the massive expanse of Daggerfall, none of the procedural generation stuff. They hand-crafted everything, though, and there was a remarkable attention to detail. It wasn't as ambitious as Daggerfall, but it got all the little things right, so on the whole it was a more fun game to play than Daggerfall was.
Then Oblivion came out, and it was a piece of shit. It had none of the ambition of Daggerfall, nor the attention to detail and meticulousness that went into Morrowind. And I went "what the fuck?" But maybe it was a fluke. NOPE. They got the license to Fallout 3, and not only did they prove that their prior butchery of their own franchise was indeed not a fluke, but they also butchered a second IP that wasn't theirs to begin with in the process.
Now we're almost 20 years later, and despite the advances in technology, I still don't have my damn modern sequel to Daggerfall because Bethesda's too interested in voice acting everything and letting you play with your face like it's made of clay.
It's not just about pushing graphics, that's whatever. The problem is Bethesda doesn't push any boundaries anymore, and very few devs do, which is really the big problem. If you want just "omg gameplay over graphics", then you guys should all be looking at games in the late 90's super early 2000's, instead of talking about fo4. Or a lot of the indie games being tested out now. Hell, I've just been introduced to geneforge by Yanger's, and I'm playing through it right now. So if you guys wanna talk about "muh gameplay>graphics" to me, you're preaching to the choir. The problem is ,FO4 is a modern AAA title, if this is what passes as "good" for a modern AAA title, that's a fucking damn shame, and a joke. You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. I'm not trying to defend Bethesda in anyway shape or form, because they really dropped the ball with Oblivion, but it's hilarious to think that Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 are significantly better than Fallout 3, that's just massive nostalgia. There were significant gameplay and plotline issues with both games. Just an example, Fallout 2's continuity of the Fallout 1 story literally makes no sense. The tribals are suppose to be decedents of the original hi-tech vault character from Fallout 1 who stopped the Master, which likely meant that the original character according to what most people agree to canon likely has a high degree of knowledge in firearms, technology, etc. And yet the tribals have literally no idea what technology is. At all. None. Zilch. New Reno is another what in the fuck is that. Same with the Shi. As are alot of things in Fallout 2. And don't even get me started on gameplay inconsistencies or complete nonsensical bullshit. VATS from Fallout 3 and New Vegas are extremely overpowered/ridiculous, but don't make me laugh when you can do all sorts of cheesy/nonsensical stuff in all the games. Out of all the games, Fallout 1 definitely had the tightest and most well written plot (outside of New Vegas, who by far has a superior plotline compared to Fallout 2's wacky pop references). Bethesda gets a shit ton of flack for no reason, they are one of the few major companies that attempts to revamp and fix their previous mistakes unlike other companies. Oblivion for example was an absolute disaster for the most part, and although Morrowind was good, it was a completely buggy mess. Skyrim was a significant step up from both games, in lots of ways. Sure the plotline wasn't really that good, however the gameplay was significantly better, smoother, and overall the experience and the world itself were crafted in a semi-believable way. Were there issues? Yeah. Significantly less than their previous iterations though. So please, don't be one of those NMA nerds that just shit all over Bethesda's work just because you like to wear rose tinted glasses. I mean, it's like the same oldschool FF fanboys that try to proclaim 3/56 as the greatest JRPG of all time, even though more recent JRPGS take an absolute dump on it. Uhm, it is very interesting to see someone shit on a title by comparing it with the sequel that made 10 years after. I mean people expect some improvement after 10 years passed in terms of quality of the product. Fallout 3(made by bethesda anyways) is superior to the F1&F2 in terms of graphics only imo. Story, storytelling, dark humor, ambiance and presentation of the material is well below especially F1. Bethesda couldn't catch the soul of F1 &F2 sadly. Dialogs are elementary school level and lack of enthusiasm. If you follow ex-interplay employees and their interviews(Chris Avellone, Tim Cain and the others), they put enormous amount of content and showed a great finesse on above topics. I mean, walking out of the vault first person into the wasteland was a huge excitement for me initially but it is all comes from the engine and the excitement turned into residentsleeper when digging the storyline. New Vegas was far better but guess what it was done by Obsidian(Chris Avellone etc.. lulz). Bethesda FO experiment is failed before and Obsidian nailed the coffin by NV so my expectations are too damn low now. Bethesda drove away the F1 & F2 fans significantly from the title that is for sure. It is not about being a NMA nerd, it is about taking a title, emptying the major aspects of it and re-furbish it for masses.
Fallout 3 had a much more belivable and coherent world if you don't take into account for past lore. Believe it or not, there's a lot of inconsistencies and plot holes in fall out 2 many which I already pointed out. And for all the nma nerds attacking me do realize I have literally thousands of hours between fallout 1 and 2 from my 5000 playthroughs. Fallout 1 and 2 are great games but not as great as many nma guys make it out to be
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Fallout 3 had a much more belivable and coherent world if you don't take into account for past lore.
So if we ignore the lore in which said game is taking place it's better than previous game? The fuck im reading here. Fallout 3 is taking place 100 + years after Fallout 1 events, 50 or so after Fallout 2 events, still the so coherent and believable world is looking like nukes just crashed.
I also like how you call people that disagree with you nerds.I guess its better to be a nerd than to be blind fool.
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On June 20 2015 05:56 Narw wrote:Show nested quote +Fallout 3 had a much more belivable and coherent world if you don't take into account for past lore. So if we ignore the lore in which said game is taking place it's better than previous game? The fuck im reading here. Fallout 3 is taking place 100 + years after Fallout 1 events, 50 or so after Fallout 2 events, still the so coherent and believable world is looking like nukes just crashed. I also like how you call people that disagree with you nerds. I guess its better to be a nerd than to be blind fool.
Not to mention the whole genre of crpg was targeted for nerds and geeks... lol.
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On June 20 2015 04:01 ref4 wrote:
And don't even get me started on melee combats rofl.
I intentionally stayed away from the topic of melee combat because the first person perspective is fundamentally not suited to melee combat. Melee combat in action RPG/hack and slash genres is very dependent on spacing and positioning, and these are elements that the limited perspective of first person gameplay isn't well-suited toward. It's a flaw of the perspective, but you kind of just have to make do and design around it.
At the very least, FO3 uses less melee combat than any main series TES game, so this is less of a problem.
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On June 20 2015 02:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 01:32 HeatEXTEND wrote:On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote:
You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. It's not so much that bethasde bought the IP, it's what they turned it into. It's the fact that fallout 3 isn't actually Fallout 3, but Fallout: Wasteland wanderer or whatever you want to call it. And arguing on about which or which is objectively the better game is pointless, fact is fallout 3/4 isn't the type of game the "butthurt fanboys" originally cemented in RPG history by lauding and remembering it. And by god, they are going to let all the fans of the new game know how much they don't like it. Over and over. http://buttersafe.com/2015/06/18/allow-me-to-share/
Well......yeah 
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On June 20 2015 05:31 superstartran wrote:
Fallout 3 had a much more believable and coherent world if you don't take into account for past lore.
But that doesn't matter. What matters is how much of your disbelief is able to be suspended while enjoying the game, or whatever media for that matter.
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voiced protaganist. yukkkkkkk
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I liked VATS, found it more fun then the slow down time mechanic all fps games had around that time. Even if its basically the same.
Dislike that Bethesda restrict their games even more now. But it definitely makes them more accessible, which helps the modding scene and their sales of course.
I forgot that Fallout brings even more different groups together then Elder Scrolls does. This thread feels like a battle royal.
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On June 19 2015 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:35 Elizar wrote:
I´m kinda curious: Can anyone give me some interesting facts about F4, that make me wanna buy it?
I played F1,F2, F3, F:NV, and enjoyed F1 the most, then F3 was the next enjoyable thing, because it was new mechanics-wise.
I guess, now we have buildable fortresses, which I´m not interested in.
So I guess, I better save my 60€. But I´m not sure. I really would love to like the game, but I have my doubts that I´d enjoy it.
E:Spelling if you enjoyed fo3, and want more of the same experience, then fo4 probably won't disappoint in giving you a similar experience.
And there is the problem: I don´t want to play the same game again for the third time with some minor tweaks. That would be fine as an expansion for 25€, but if they want to charge me 60€ I simply won´t buy it. It´s not worth it.
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This thread is just a continuous circlejerk of hate.
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On June 20 2015 19:36 Yuna wrote:
This thread is just a continuous circlejerk of hate.
You should check got tv thread...
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I want to believe the crafting system is as free form as the E3 vid made it seem. I wouldn't mind wasting hours building my own settlements and connecting them to my own trade network. I want to believe, but I really don't. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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On June 20 2015 19:36 Yuna wrote:
This thread is just a continuous circlejerk of hate.
It is the Fallout4 thread. People voice their opinions like you do, too.
If you want a hype thread, then create one. And write in the OP: "We dont want you to say anything which is different from our opinions!" And btw.: Hating the haters will make you a hater too. Speaking about circles ...
Some people have concerns, some people air their assumtions, others are looking forward to it. That´s all fine to me. And that´s why there is a thread. To talk about it and share oppinions.
I´m looking for a good reason to buy it, since I like the fallout franchise a lot. But I´m not one of those guys who would camp in front of an apple store, because some product I don´t need will be sold with an apple logo on it. Same thing for fallout. It has potential, sure, but having potential is different from a guarantee.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On June 20 2015 06:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 04:01 ref4 wrote:
And don't even get me started on melee combats rofl.
I intentionally stayed away from the topic of melee combat because the first person perspective is fundamentally not suited to melee combat.
Well that's just not true, it is difficult to design a good FPS melee combat system, but there are a few games that got first-person melee combat just right. Chivalry, for instance, has extremely satisfying first-person melee combat. That is for real-time combat, and for turn-based / hybrid system Might & Magic series is a decent example.
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On June 20 2015 04:01 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 03:18 TheYango wrote:
I'm not going to give Bethesda shit for fucking up their first foray into designing FPS combat. Everyone's going to make mistakes their first time designing in a new genre.
I AM going to give them shit for keeping VATS in FO4 because as I outlined before, I feel that VATS is a fundamentally broken mechanic that systematically undermines all the reasons to have FPS combat in the first place. Barring some drastic redesign of how VATS works that wasn't apparent in the footage so far, it's going to carry over the same faults from FO3.
Again, the idea that VATS is fundamentally flawed or broken is not some outrageous Bethesda hate--mods that rebalance or remove it are among the most popular gameplay mods for FO3; many people who even liked FO3 chose not to use VATS or used mods to significantly change it to make it more palatable. The reason VATS is there is so Bethesda can say: "Look, character attributes and skills DO still matter in FO4! Your level in perception and gun skills influence how accurate you can hit the enemy in VATS!" So FO4 isn't turning into COD: Wasteland Edition (yet). And don't even get me started on melee combats rofl.
Bethesda has become the equlivent of EA and Actavision.
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On June 20 2015 21:49 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 19:36 Yuna wrote:
This thread is just a continuous circlejerk of hate. It is the Fallout4 thread. People voice their opinions like you do, too. If you want a hype thread, then create one. And write in the OP: "We dont want you to say anything which is different from our opinions!" And btw.: Hating the haters will make you a hater too. Speaking about circles ... Some people have concerns, some people air their assumtions, others are looking forward to it. That´s all fine to me. And that´s why there is a thread. To talk about it and share oppinions. I´m looking for a good reason to buy it, since I like the fallout franchise a lot. But I´m not one of those guys who would camp in front of an apple store, because some product I don´t need will be sold with an apple logo on it. Same thing for fallout. It has potential, sure, but having potential is different from a guarantee.
One could wonder what's the point of voicing your opinion if you're going to dislike the game no matter what though.
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http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-4-may-not-have-the-best-graphics-but-here-/1100-6428328/
"Everything that we do is a balance," Hines said. "We could make the best looking game possible, but we dial some of that back in order to allow for all of these other things."
"If you want to pick flowers and make potions all day, then that's what you're role-playing," he said. "If you want to go shoot everybody in the head with a laser-musket, then that's what you're role-playing."
What. The. Fuck.
Bitchsoft really believes this is what makes a game cRPG? No wonder they have no idea what Fallout was about~~
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Rofl you europeans are irascible. Go play witcher 3 and stfu already
User was warned for this post
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EPT
