EPTFallout 4! - Page 21
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
whatisthisasheep
624 Posts
| ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
| ||
|
ref4
2933 Posts
On June 19 2015 06:04 Manit0u wrote: That's not saying much. There are games that people have poured over 500 days into and still haven't seen big chunk of the world... A game like that would be Skyrim -- size of the pacific ocean but with an uniform depth of 1 meter. | ||
|
superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 18 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote: doom graphics looked great for their time, and doom 3 tried to push the envelope. but okay dude. It's not just about pushing graphics, that's whatever. The problem is Bethesda doesn't push any boundaries anymore, and very few devs do, which is really the big problem. If you want just "omg gameplay over graphics", then you guys should all be looking at games in the late 90's super early 2000's, instead of talking about fo4. Or a lot of the indie games being tested out now. Hell, I've just been introduced to geneforge by Yanger's, and I'm playing through it right now. So if you guys wanna talk about "muh gameplay>graphics" to me, you're preaching to the choir. The problem is ,FO4 is a modern AAA title, if this is what passes as "good" for a modern AAA title, that's a fucking damn shame, and a joke. You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. I'm not trying to defend Bethesda in anyway shape or form, because they really dropped the ball with Oblivion, but it's hilarious to think that Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 are significantly better than Fallout 3, that's just massive nostalgia. There were significant gameplay and plotline issues with both games. Just an example, Fallout 2's continuity of the Fallout 1 story literally makes no sense. The tribals are suppose to be decedents of the original hi-tech vault character from Fallout 1 who stopped the Master, which likely meant that the original character according to what most people agree to canon likely has a high degree of knowledge in firearms, technology, etc. And yet the tribals have literally no idea what technology is. At all. None. Zilch. New Reno is another what in the fuck is that. Same with the Shi. As are alot of things in Fallout 2. And don't even get me started on gameplay inconsistencies or complete nonsensical bullshit. VATS from Fallout 3 and New Vegas are extremely overpowered/ridiculous, but don't make me laugh when you can do all sorts of cheesy/nonsensical stuff in all the games. Out of all the games, Fallout 1 definitely had the tightest and most well written plot (outside of New Vegas, who by far has a superior plotline compared to Fallout 2's wacky pop references). Bethesda gets a shit ton of flack for no reason, they are one of the few major companies that attempts to revamp and fix their previous mistakes unlike other companies. Oblivion for example was an absolute disaster for the most part, and although Morrowind was good, it was a completely buggy mess. Skyrim was a significant step up from both games, in lots of ways. Sure the plotline wasn't really that good, however the gameplay was significantly better, smoother, and overall the experience and the world itself were crafted in a semi-believable way. Were there issues? Yeah. Significantly less than their previous iterations though. So please, don't be one of those NMA nerds that just shit all over Bethesda's work just because you like to wear rose tinted glasses. I mean, it's like the same oldschool FF fanboys that try to proclaim 3/56 as the greatest JRPG of all time, even though more recent JRPGS take an absolute dump on it. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The way I see it there are 3 primary advantages to using 1st person shooter combat in a game: 1) It's fast paced 2) It scales well to player skill 3) It's more immersive by putting the player closer to the action. The fact that you're constantly using a system that pauses the game and zooms in and out fucking with the perspective undermines 1 and 3, and it's total dependence on on character stats for determining hit %s severely skews the player skill-character skill balance away from the player's skill. Unlike a lot of the really nostalgic FO1/2 players, I have no problems with 1st person gameplay as a whole, I just think that VATS is really poorly implemented in that it entirely undermines all the reasons you'd make the game first-person. On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote: I mean, it's like the same oldschool FF fanboys that try to proclaim 3/56 as the greatest JRPG of all time, even though more recent JRPGS take an absolute dump on it. I mean, that's a product of not being exposed to anything outside Final Fantasy, really. Not a great comparison. FF4/5/6 are probably better than a lot of the later main-series FF games, it's just that the JRPG genre evolved beyond being just Final Fantasy/Squaresoft dominating the market a decade ago. | ||
|
superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 19 2015 23:51 TheYango wrote: The problem with VATS isn't so much it being overpowered, it's that from a game design perspective, it completely undermines all the advantages of first person shooter gameplay. The way I see it there are 3 primary advantages to using 1st person shooter combat in a game: 1) It's fast paced 2) It scales well to player skill 3) It's more immersive by putting the player closer to the action. The fact that you're constantly using a system that pauses the game and zooms in and out fucking with the perspective undermines 1 and 3, and it's total dependence on on character stats for determining hit %s severely skews the player skill-character skill balance away from the player's skill. Unlike a lot of the really nostalgic FO1/2 players, I have no problems with 1st person gameplay as a whole, I just think that VATS is really poorly implemented in that it entirely undermines all the reasons you'd make the game first-person. I mean, that's a product of not being exposed to anything outside Final Fantasy, really. Not a great comparison. FF4/5/6 are probably better than a lot of the later main-series FF games, it's just that the JRPG genre evolved beyond being just Final Fantasy/Squaresoft dominating the market a decade ago. This is a logical argument I can agree with, in that from a design perspective it makes no sense. I personally don't use it just because it breaks immersion in the game for me. But the idea that VATS is super overpowered when you can do hilariously broken things in Fallout 1/Fallout 2 is just mind blowing (things that are far more broken than VATs ever could be). It's not just FF, I'm talking all the older generation JRPGs. Lots of people forget that later on better JRPGs came out like Xenogears, Xenoblade Chronicles, Persona, etc. that were extremely well made games, with far better gameplay/plotline (Xenogears could have been epic if they didn't get absolutely rushed at the end). Hell, even Star Ocean The Last Hope wasn't even all that bad, the gameplay was pretty addicting to be honest. It's just that people tend to view things with massive nostalgia. I'm the biggest FF7 fanboy there is, but there's no way I could ever objectively say it's better than something like Xenoblade Chronicles, which sets the bar for JRPGs pretty high. | ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote: On June 18 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote: doom graphics looked great for their time, and doom 3 tried to push the envelope. but okay dude. It's not just about pushing graphics, that's whatever. The problem is Bethesda doesn't push any boundaries anymore, and very few devs do, which is really the big problem. If you want just "omg gameplay over graphics", then you guys should all be looking at games in the late 90's super early 2000's, instead of talking about fo4. Or a lot of the indie games being tested out now. Hell, I've just been introduced to geneforge by Yanger's, and I'm playing through it right now. So if you guys wanna talk about "muh gameplay>graphics" to me, you're preaching to the choir. The problem is ,FO4 is a modern AAA title, if this is what passes as "good" for a modern AAA title, that's a fucking damn shame, and a joke. You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. I'm not trying to defend Bethesda in anyway shape or form, because they really dropped the ball with Oblivion, but it's hilarious to think that Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 are significantly better than Fallout 3, that's just massive nostalgia. There were significant gameplay and plotline issues with both games. Just an example, Fallout 2's continuity of the Fallout 1 story literally makes no sense. The tribals are suppose to be decedents of the original hi-tech vault character from Fallout 1 who stopped the Master, which likely meant that the original character according to what most people agree to canon likely has a high degree of knowledge in firearms, technology, etc. And yet the tribals have literally no idea what technology is. At all. None. Zilch. New Reno is another what in the fuck is that. Same with the Shi. As are alot of things in Fallout 2. And don't even get me started on gameplay inconsistencies or complete nonsensical bullshit. VATS from Fallout 3 and New Vegas are extremely overpowered/ridiculous, but don't make me laugh when you can do all sorts of cheesy/nonsensical stuff in all the games. Out of all the games, Fallout 1 definitely had the tightest and most well written plot (outside of New Vegas, who by far has a superior plotline compared to Fallout 2's wacky pop references). Bethesda gets a shit ton of flack for no reason, they are one of the few major companies that attempts to revamp and fix their previous mistakes unlike other companies. Oblivion for example was an absolute disaster for the most part, and although Morrowind was good, it was a completely buggy mess. Skyrim was a significant step up from both games, in lots of ways. Sure the plotline wasn't really that good, however the gameplay was significantly better, smoother, and overall the experience and the world itself were crafted in a semi-believable way. Were there issues? Yeah. Significantly less than their previous iterations though. So please, don't be one of those NMA nerds that just shit all over Bethesda's work just because you like to wear rose tinted glasses. I mean, it's like the same oldschool FF fanboys that try to proclaim 3/56 as the greatest JRPG of all time, even though more recent JRPGS take an absolute dump on it. Uhm, it is very interesting to see someone shit on a title by comparing it with the sequel that made 10 years after. I mean people expect some improvement after 10 years passed in terms of quality of the product. Fallout 3(made by bethesda anyways) is superior to the F1&F2 in terms of graphics only imo. Story, storytelling, dark humor, ambiance and presentation of the material is well below especially F1. Bethesda couldn't catch the soul of F1 &F2 sadly. Dialogs are elementary school level and lack of enthusiasm. If you follow ex-interplay employees and their interviews(Chris Avellone, Tim Cain and the others), they put enormous amount of content and showed a great finesse on above topics. I mean, walking out of the vault first person into the wasteland was a huge excitement for me initially but it is all comes from the engine and the excitement turned into residentsleeper when digging the storyline. New Vegas was far better but guess what it was done by Obsidian(Chris Avellone etc.. lulz). Bethesda FO experiment is failed before and Obsidian nailed the coffin by NV so my expectations are too damn low now. Bethesda drove away the F1 & F2 fans significantly from the title that is for sure. It is not about being a NMA nerd, it is about taking a title, emptying the major aspects of it and re-furbish it for masses. | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Would have been cool to see targeting info in real time. @yango even if they removed vats, the fps combat didn't feel compelling at all in fo3 and nv. | ||
|
HeatEXTEND
Netherlands836 Posts
On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote: You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. It's not so much that bethasde bought the IP, it's what they turned it into. It's the fact that fallout 3 isn't actually Fallout 3, but Fallout: Wasteland wanderer or whatever you want to call it. And arguing on about which or which is objectively the better game is pointless, fact is fallout 3/4 isn't the type of game the "butthurt fanboys" originally cemented in RPG history by lauding and remembering it. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 20 2015 01:32 HeatEXTEND wrote: It's not so much that bethasde bought the IP, it's what they turned it into. It's the fact that fallout 3 isn't actually Fallout 3, but Fallout: Wasteland wanderer or whatever you want to call it. And arguing on about which or which is objectively the better game is pointless, fact is fallout 3/4 isn't the type of game the "butthurt fanboys" originally cemented in RPG history by lauding and remembering it. And by god, they are going to let all the fans of the new game know how much they don't like it. Over and over. http://buttersafe.com/2015/06/18/allow-me-to-share/ | ||
|
Nebula
England780 Posts
On June 19 2015 23:36 superstartran wrote: You sound like one of those Fallout 2 fanboys that were completely butthurt by the fact that Bethesda took the IP away. I'm not trying to defend Bethesda in anyway shape or form, because they really dropped the ball with Oblivion, but it's hilarious to think that Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 are significantly better than Fallout 3, that's just massive nostalgia. There were significant gameplay and plotline issues with both games. Just an example, Fallout 2's continuity of the Fallout 1 story literally makes no sense. The tribals are suppose to be decedents of the original hi-tech vault character from Fallout 1 who stopped the Master, which likely meant that the original character according to what most people agree to canon likely has a high degree of knowledge in firearms, technology, etc. And yet the tribals have literally no idea what technology is. At all. None. Zilch. New Reno is another what in the fuck is that. Same with the Shi. As are alot of things in Fallout 2. And don't even get me started on gameplay inconsistencies or complete nonsensical bullshit. VATS from Fallout 3 and New Vegas are extremely overpowered/ridiculous, but don't make me laugh when you can do all sorts of cheesy/nonsensical stuff in all the games. Out of all the games, Fallout 1 definitely had the tightest and most well written plot (outside of New Vegas, who by far has a superior plotline compared to Fallout 2's wacky pop references). Bethesda gets a shit ton of flack for no reason, they are one of the few major companies that attempts to revamp and fix their previous mistakes unlike other companies. Oblivion for example was an absolute disaster for the most part, and although Morrowind was good, it was a completely buggy mess. Skyrim was a significant step up from both games, in lots of ways. Sure the plotline wasn't really that good, however the gameplay was significantly better, smoother, and overall the experience and the world itself were crafted in a semi-believable way. Were there issues? Yeah. Significantly less than their previous iterations though. So please, don't be one of those NMA nerds that just shit all over Bethesda's work just because you like to wear rose tinted glasses. I mean, it's like the same oldschool FF fanboys that try to proclaim 3/56 as the greatest JRPG of all time, even though more recent JRPGS take an absolute dump on it. Holy shit i rarely post but comments this dumb and i can't help it. I can't imagine you've even played the original games :> Enjoy crafting a fucking house or whatever in your new sims:post apocalyptic wasteland. Jesus christ O_O | ||
|
Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
| ||
|
Nebula
England780 Posts
| ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 20 2015 02:17 Reaps wrote: He actually made a lot of good points. Minus the fact he thinks skyrim is better than morrowind. Lol. Bethesda completely jumped the shark after morrowind. | ||
|
Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
Anyway that doesn't excuse the fact people are coming in here and mindlessly hating on anything Bethesda, and no I wouldn't call myself a fan of them either, I only enjoyed 2 of their games but when I dislike a game I actually stay away from any topics involving said game. Anyway Fall out games on steam sale today, time to buy fallout 1&2 again, been a while since I played them. | ||
|
Nebula
England780 Posts
BUT YOU CAN FIRE A MINI NUKE LAUNCHER LOL BEST GAME GOTY. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 20 2015 02:22 wei2coolman wrote: Minus the fact he thinks skyrim is better than morrowind. Lol. Bethesda completely jumped the shark after morrowind. Opinions are amazing things. | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 20 2015 02:33 Nebula wrote: It's perfectly fine to hate on a company that doesn't think writing is an important aspect of an rpg that fundamentally relied upon decent/interesting writing and turned it into a shitty fps game, with neither good fps mechanics or good rpg mechanics. BUT YOU CAN FIRE A MINI NUKE LAUNCHER LOL BEST GAME GOTY. I mean, it's not like there aren't examples of rpg/fps hybrid games with compelling and worthwhile combat encounters with guns.... That's probably what bugs me the most, there are clearly well done fps/rpg hybrids that do a good job with combat portion of the fps since the late 90's, yet Bethesda some how manages to fuck that up 10 years later with fo3. It's one thing if they do something new, and completely fuck it up. But when there's a pretty good history of game mechanics for both genre there's pretty limited excuse to be mediocre at both. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 20 2015 01:32 wei2coolman wrote: @yango even if they removed vats, the fps combat didn't feel compelling at all in fo3 and nv. That's because the system was designed around it. You don't just remove a design element and expect the remaining pieces to work fine--that's obvious. | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 20 2015 03:15 TheYango wrote: That's because the system was designed around it. You don't just remove a design element and expect the remaining pieces to work fine--that's obvious. I dunno.. It is bethesda... | ||
| ||
