EPTAfter several losses I've decided to try some more uncommon things, I'm using banshees vs orc, it seems to work fine for now. Here are 2 replays showing how my strat works:
Rep 1
Rep 2
I still need to improve it all. Any ideas?
[WC3] Undead vs Orc
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Manit0u
Poland17783 Posts
After several losses I've decided to try some more uncommon things, I'm using banshees vs orc, it seems to work fine for now. Here are 2 replays showing how my strat works: Rep 1 Rep 2 I still need to improve it all. Any ideas? | ||
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JudgeMathis
Cuba1286 Posts
Btw, Orc vs UD is a very easy matchup(for orc), and if you want to play some time msg me on aim: soy giz. | ||
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eChoWns
Germany168 Posts
And second game where u r talking about south park was also a good one. I asked myself why orc vs ud is imba for the ud u solved;D The shade did also great work gg | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17783 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5468 Posts
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Midnight[yR]
Korea (South)164 Posts
IM me if by a far off chance you wanna play UvN ... my SN is Midnight yR | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17783 Posts
On October 13 2006 11:29 SoleSteeler wrote: msg me on MSN and i'll practice orc vs ud with you if you'd like GGC again?  Sure thing, but not today however as I'm dead tired (sleeping over at girlfriends place can get you tired).Hee hee hee ... NE player FTW ^_^ IM me if by a far off chance you wanna play UvN ... my SN is Midnight yR UvN hmmm... I sure could use some practice, you play on us west/us east/asia/europe? Edit: nvm, I think kalimdor so we'd have to set up via ggc too Maybe we could even get some larger TL.net party on some day to practice things? Anyone interested? Anyone who's good host especially? | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5468 Posts
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GeneralCash
Croatia346 Posts
i use banshee vs orc 90% of the time, along with frost armour and howl. it lowers orc dmg to zero. i use them in a much different way: to turn the game into hard macro game. banshees, 6 fiends and frost armour can alone secure an expo before you can get nerubs. it forces orc to either go all in, or expand himself... the principle of ovu is simillar to pvt in starcraft - orc/toss must completely controll the midgame and stay one expo ahead. also, a 3/3 100/100 ud army will run over orc the same way 3/3 200/200 runs over terran (even more, since ud heroes are so stong and the more units die, the better your chances). progamers ofc don't do that cuz it's damn hard to defend an expo as ud on that level of play... you have a much micro-heavier strat so there is little advice i can give you (also i'm quite a noob), but i still think that frost armour on level 2 (still take ritual on lvl 4) and pitlord as third hero with howl/cleave would help you a lot. still, there are 2 things that i'm 100% positive about. a) if you already have master training for banshee, there is no reason not to posess a kodo that just ate your abo. for a 2 food banshee, you get your 4 food abo back that is otherwise lost to speed scroll or tp, a 4 food 1000hp kodo and a 3 food pain-in-the-ass raider that your new kodo is going to eat asap. banshee is not worth getting just for posess, but if you have it, use it!! b) in most cases, it is good to make 3 heroes vs orc. since you have t3 and he doesn't, no reason to pass up this advantage. especially since banshees will give you some breathing space at t2 so you can creep early t3. i sugest a coilable tavern hero, but crypt lord is always a great third hero, and dreadlord worx well with abos, just take swarm instead of sleep to increase your nuking potential. i used to go with cl third, but i have recently experimented with darkranger (mostly vs human). the arrow thingy gives you cca. 300 hp skeletons that can be ritualed for an instant nova. silence is awesome, and drain is an underrated skill that can deal huge damage and make this low hp hero survive till she gets a decent level. so you get an extra nuke on the lich and either another nuke (drain) or one less nuke (silenced tc/fs) on enemy. i'm always up for a game, but i don't intend to play on b-net since i've spent 3 months playing on lan and i just can't adjust to the lag. i play on hamachi btw, but i can't host since i got wlan. if anyone is going to host on gg-c or hamachi, leave a msg. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17783 Posts
AD b: Getting third hero is nice but I don't think necessary vs orc, after all 90% of the time he'll have just 2 heroes which means that he can level them up faster and heroadvantage is very important for UD since heroes are the backbone of any UD army. Also another hero (which needs time to level up) will be easy pray for orcs with all their disablers and it'll require more micro and coiling so in fact I'll exchange 1 nuke (let's say level 2 coil) for the other (level 1 impale for example) since I'll need this extra coil for healing another hero. Getting a coilable hero is ok but personally if I'd have to choose my 3rd hero vs orc there are really only 2 choices I'd make: 1. Panda - has quite a lot hp = won't need healing that much and it's skills simply own (worth getting even for haze, not to mention bof). 2. Dreadlord - sleep on TC/SH or swarm in case of mass air (nova + swarm = pain for wyvs/bats). | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Frankly though, ive given up on WC3 1:1. What a homo game, if only there was no static D in that shit. | ||
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JudgeMathis
Cuba1286 Posts
At one point of the game you had 1.4K GOLD. You just mass to tier 3, and barely even level your heroes. You kept making abombs even know you knew had he enough kodos to eat any abombs you could actually make. Too many TP(too many unnecessary fights like going to his base where he had a kodo with an abomb in it, you attacked then had to TP out). At the end your position was great. Instead of attacking his base after he ran out, you want to creep the gold mine the furthest away from him, he wasn't scouting for shit. It would have benefit you a lot with all that tier 2/3 units(plus he didnt even get a expo). Creep more? game 2 he didnt do much but let you creep which was what you did. but, maybe you should scout a lil bit more? =o | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
- If your going for fast hero build w/ ghouls, you can do altar, zig, crypt, shop and shop will be made in time for your dk. Gives you faster ghouls and you can take one off to scout (instead of not scouting >_<). - you had like 1.4k gold (as judgemathis said) and like 20/40 supply, >_< shouldn't be happening, make more ghouls, buy more items, etc (of course you need to save some gold so you can build stuff right when u hit tier 2, but you don't wanna skimp on units) - I dunno if abom is so good vs kodo (or orc in general), your opponent played weird, he could've consumed all of your aboms, speedscroll/tp out and camp in his base or something. Instead he decided to speedscroll into your base and get his kodos trapped -.- - You had good harassment early on but try not to engage him directly when he's not creeping. Also you can work on multitasking some of your ghouls to creep out some small greens or the orange warden camp while your dk harasses. I think the main point in harassing his farseer is to keep it from leveling to lvl 2. You wanna reduce the amount of exp the farseer gets so he has to level up his farseer w/ his tc (and his tc gets less exp, etc etc) - At tier 2 you wanna scout for possible expo attempts close to his base while you creep or something. Tier 2 is usually when orc goes for an expo because your army can't engage him directly. If you can make him cancel a couple of times, you gain a big advantage. Overal I think your opponent played really poorly, he had a pretty good food advantage but he decided to start attacking your base (I think most other orcs would just go for expo). | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17783 Posts
1. Lich 2. Upgrade to t3 3. Slaughterhouse 4. Temple I didn't really care about my abos, they sole purpose was to act as meatshield for banshees/heroes which they did + they forced him to go kodos which I prefer 10x more than raiders And yeah, scouting is the thing I must definitely improve, in the 2nd rep I didn't know he had exp before the game was almost over *doh* Too much DotA for me, it kills all the normal game habits/instincts, gonna work on it. | ||
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JudgeMathis
Cuba1286 Posts
The first orc would have won if he didn't fight you in base. If he had expoed and just kept you contained like he sort of did half the game than he would have won the game easily. But, how would that strat work if you had a Blademaster, and a Shadow Hunter. Grunts automatically become meat shields w/ healing wave, and a person who masses air on your strat can easily defeat that strat by killing banshies first, and hero nuking in the orc kind of way(hex mass wind raider damage + wind walk on DK). Bats easily destroy gargs, and easily hurt destroyers if not upgraded. | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2936 Posts
on both games you made good use of your rod of free army, but you didnt attempt to do any harassment on echo isles with a ghoul build basically with all the narrow pathways on echo isles a crypt fiend build is alot more suited to the map, on twisted meadows your little banshee strat is a good choice though. All I can really suggest is a crypt lord as a 3rd hero. all this advice is coming from an orc player, a fiend build has beaten me more on echo isles then a ghoul build, infact i dont think I ever lost to a ghoul build on echo isles. lets 1v1 some time, Oshibori on west | ||
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GeneralCash
Croatia346 Posts
actualy, your heroes will level just as fast as his cuz you kill his heroes much more than he kills yours. and since levels go exponential with xp, you can have either a lvl 4/4 dk/lich or a 4/3/2 dh/lich/cl for the same amount of xp. the only problem is him otleveling your heroes by 2 levels, but that is not likely to happen cuz he has no t3 xp bonus. for someone with your micro, controlling 3 heroes should be np, and would help a lot... getting 1400 gold is normal for ud player before t3, cuz you want to hoard it at 50 suply, and save for destro tech, orb, heal scroll and t3 tech. please don't get panda vs orc, their weakest unit has 600 hp. not to mention he's a fatass (easily suroundable) and impossible to coil. cl is good vs orc cuz at lvl 3 he can't be killed. if he ensnare surrounds it, coil it a few times, put a frost armour, wait till ensnare goes away, wait some more to let the grunt/raiders get some dmg while attacking a 850 hp fatass that hurts melee units back and slows them, then impale where the surround is thinnest and spam move in that direction. grunts will spend 1 sec in the air and make a free exit if the lag doesn't fuck you up. yea, like someone said, cl fe build is very viable on lost temple, i tried it today. i used it on broken shard, but never on lt. worked like a charm... turned into a macro war, and my enemy didn't bother to upgrade, so it was a 3/3 fiends/destro/necro with frost armour and unholy frenzy vs 0/1 raiders/grunts/w.riders/bats with cripple (he didn't bother to get dispellers). | ||
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