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On February 25 2014 03:08 Grumbels wrote:
I hope someone does a comprehensive article on all the things that happened when this is done. I can't be bothered following this while it's going on, but I guess it's nice to read about later on.
http://www.dorkly.com/article/59505/the-majesty-of-twitch-plays-pokemon
Scroll down to the timeline and you can read the whole story. Its actually a pretty fun read with a lot of awesome fan art.
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On February 25 2014 03:11 Hesmyrr wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/twitchplayspokemon/b/50546358237:11:00 This is the moment of Zapdos withdrawal. Throughout the entire Democracy PC usage, there haven't been anything remotely threatening that could not be attributed to lag. I personally believe 'Democracy is more vulnerable to trolls' argument completely invalid. Also, if you look at the Anarchy PC use before the time stamp, you can clearly see people's unwillingness to use PC on Anarchy - there are lot of B commands being pressed to prevent people from using the PC, and people were screaming on the chat to wait until Democracy.
Are you disappointed there is no pure anarchy or do you want there to be tension when using the PC? There still tension even with a democracy option as it wasn't always used, important Pokemon have been close to release and loved Pokemon have been released like Dux. Democracy is a better option in my opinion than modding the game in order to finish Safari Zone which would have been needed. It still is Twitch Plays Pokemon with a democracy option and is over 95% of the time anarchy.
This is how close they got to the mansion key
http://i.imgur.com/XSVyePz.jpg
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On February 25 2014 06:12 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 03:11 Hesmyrr wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/twitchplayspokemon/b/50546358237:11:00 This is the moment of Zapdos withdrawal. Throughout the entire Democracy PC usage, there haven't been anything remotely threatening that could not be attributed to lag. I personally believe 'Democracy is more vulnerable to trolls' argument completely invalid. Also, if you look at the Anarchy PC use before the time stamp, you can clearly see people's unwillingness to use PC on Anarchy - there are lot of B commands being pressed to prevent people from using the PC, and people were screaming on the chat to wait until Democracy. Are you disappointed there is no pure anarchy or do you want there to be tension when using the PC? There still tension even with a democracy option as it wasn't always used, important Pokemon have been close to release and loved Pokemon have been released like Dux. Democracy is a better option in my opinion than modding the game in order to finish Safari Zone which would have been needed. It still is Twitch Plays Pokemon with a democracy option and it still is over 95% of the time anarchy. This is how close they got to the mansion key http://i.imgur.com/XSVyePz.jpg
Dux wasn't released during Democracy, and that event was the last time Anarchy was seriously used on the PC. When they got Zapdos and Omanyte, which is what I believe he is talking about, there was very little risk involved. Even if you accidentally press release, there's still a few commands where you can easily prevent it.
PC was the riskier moment in the game and gave some of the best storylines, and democracy pretty much makes it trivial. That they used it before with Anarchy doesn't really change anything about it. The issue with 5% of the game being done with Democracy is that the game is only hard about 5% of the time.
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Yeah, I can see where people who prefer Democracy come from, but how twitch optimized Red's team with very minor risk peeves me. So I guess I'm sad because democracy system can drastically skew the risk vs reward ratio when it comes to the PC. Like uh.... you shouldn't be able to have a Zapdos and eat it too without some significance or something. I just don't share the excitement other people seem to have with all these accomplishments, just feels like something that was inevitable 
Edit: Also, as previously feared, looks like the streamer is planning to continue onto the second gen. I wonder if it will be viable for him to run two streams - pure Anarchy and current government system - so that lot of unnecessary division between different type of participants can be prevented.
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I never said Dux was released during democracy my point was even with the democracy option you can still have events like Bloody Sunday where 12 Pokemon are released. Blood Sunday released a lot of Safari fodder nobody cared about, but also Cabbage, Big Dig and Dux and it was trying to get Zapdos, so there was a penalty for having Zapdos. That they later used democracy to avoid another such event doesn't change that massacres and close calls happened.
It's not that I like democracy it's that it's better than modding the game. It would be impossible to complete the Red/Blue with pure anarchy. I don't remember if the 2nd gen games have any maze similar to the Safari Zone, but if they don't then I would prefer pure anarchy.
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It's not impossible to complete Red/Blue with pure anarchy. Another stream did it.
The fact that doing the PC with Anarchy is risky doesn't mean that doing the PC with democracy isn't risky. I don't see how the fact that they once did it with Anarchy means that changing it to doing with Democracy in the last attempts is much safer, and because of that worse than keeping Anarchy. Noone is saying that nothing fun ever happened after Democracy was introduced. Just that switching to it at terrible times greatly dimishes those specific situations.
And changing the rules for a specific zone isn't even that diferent than changing the rules to the challenge. There's no such thing as cheating, he created the challenge. The ROM is already a hack anyway. Artificially changing the system to democracy is about as much cheating as changing the ROM is.
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2nd gen don't have definitive fail state, though there is some segments which will be hellhole like Rocket Hideout - beginning off with (what is possibly the hardest obstacle) Morty gym. Since streamer introduced Democracy for the Hideout Maze then decided to maintain it for entire duration of the game, I do not hold much hope.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 25 2014 06:42 SKC wrote:
It's not impossible to complete Red/Blue with pure anarchy. Another stream did it.
The fact that doing the PC with Anarchy is risky doesn't mean that doing the PC with democracy isn't risky. I don't see how the fact that they once did it with Anarchy means that changing it to doing with Democracy in the last attempts is much safer, and because of that worse than keeping Anarchy. Noone is saying that nothing fun ever happened after Democracy was introduced. Just that switching to it at terrible times greatly dimishes those specific situations.
And changing the rules for a specific zone isn't even that diferent than changing the rules to the challenge. There's no such thing as cheating, he created the challenge. The ROM is already a hack anyway. Artificially changing the system to democracy is about as much cheating as changing the ROM is.
They had like 700 viewers, quite a few less than the main stream :p
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I would guess the viewership will drop hard for the next gen, so it may be possible to do the game only with Anarchy.
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seems like the chat wants to do the missingno glitch !!! DO IT TWITCH HIVE MIND ! AND MAKE MY PROPHECY COME TRUE !!!!!! The level 151 Mewtwo !
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If the streamer actually decide to split the stream into two, it may be possible. And I am completely certain that the 2nd gen is beatable with current >50,000 participants if we somehow manage to pass the Morty gym. I am just uncertain how we can go about the whole Morty gym thing without having to introduce the Democracy.
Perhaps the best compromise is to introduce partial democracy ONLY for the specific segment that have people stuck for more than 24~168 hours. That's the argument Democracy people originally used with Safari Zone too, it's just that the streamer decided to have it remain thereafter to keep tempting.
Nah, why the hell am I worrying about Morty gym? Unlike Rocket Maze, it's extremely easy to retry after the fail. FULL PURE ANARCHY.
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United States97274 Posts
wont missingno glitch take like 2 days without Fly?
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On February 25 2014 06:47 Shellshock wrote:
wont missingno glitch take like 2 days without Fly?
:O they dont have fly :'( , I just remembered
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On February 25 2014 06:44 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 06:42 SKC wrote:
It's not impossible to complete Red/Blue with pure anarchy. Another stream did it.
The fact that doing the PC with Anarchy is risky doesn't mean that doing the PC with democracy isn't risky. I don't see how the fact that they once did it with Anarchy means that changing it to doing with Democracy in the last attempts is much safer, and because of that worse than keeping Anarchy. Noone is saying that nothing fun ever happened after Democracy was introduced. Just that switching to it at terrible times greatly dimishes those specific situations.
And changing the rules for a specific zone isn't even that diferent than changing the rules to the challenge. There's no such thing as cheating, he created the challenge. The ROM is already a hack anyway. Artificially changing the system to democracy is about as much cheating as changing the ROM is. They had like 700 viewers, quite a few less than the main stream :p
I think they had like 2k, but I'm just saying it's not impossible. If he never had implemented Democracy, the viewership would drop so hard after a few weeks it may actually be doable, but boring. Payday makes it not a soft lock. Losing Surf at Cinnabar would be the only real soft lock I can think of.
Personally I think removing the gold fee would be more legit and loyal to the initial challenge without making it too boring.
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Yes obviously having 700 viewers changes things a lot compared to 50-80k viewers. I don't remember anything like Safari Zone for 2nd gen. Safari Zone is bad for the step and money limit. The worse examples pointed out for 2nd gen on reddit seem to be the ice maze which as a kid I solved a few ice mazes in games through just random button presses because I was so bad at them so shouldn't be too hard for Twitch.
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United States97274 Posts
another hard thing in gen 2 might be tuning the radio to wake snorlax unless they just use democracy to do it slowly
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United States23745 Posts
On February 25 2014 06:48 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 06:44 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 25 2014 06:42 SKC wrote:
It's not impossible to complete Red/Blue with pure anarchy. Another stream did it.
The fact that doing the PC with Anarchy is risky doesn't mean that doing the PC with democracy isn't risky. I don't see how the fact that they once did it with Anarchy means that changing it to doing with Democracy in the last attempts is much safer, and because of that worse than keeping Anarchy. Noone is saying that nothing fun ever happened after Democracy was introduced. Just that switching to it at terrible times greatly dimishes those specific situations.
And changing the rules for a specific zone isn't even that diferent than changing the rules to the challenge. There's no such thing as cheating, he created the challenge. The ROM is already a hack anyway. Artificially changing the system to democracy is about as much cheating as changing the ROM is. They had like 700 viewers, quite a few less than the main stream :p I think they had like 2k, but I'm just saying it's not impossible. If he never had implemented Democracy, the viewership would drop so hard after a few weeks it may actually be doable, but boring. Payday makes it not a soft lock. Losing Surf at Cinnabar would be the only real soft lock I can think of. Personally I think removing the gold fee would be more legit and loyal to the initial challenge without making it too boring.
I guess 700 was when they were still a little more underground lol. Yeah, it would have got done eventually, but the stories and mythos would have died when those people left (which imo is the best part of TPP)
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On February 25 2014 06:51 Shellshock wrote:
another hard thing in gen 2 might be tuning the radio to wake snorlax unless they just use democracy to do it slowly
I don't remember; will it be as hard as catching Zapdos in full anarchy? I swear the crowd is capable of great things - it's just the damn crutch of democracy which makes them weak.
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United States97274 Posts
On February 25 2014 06:55 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 06:51 Shellshock wrote:
another hard thing in gen 2 might be tuning the radio to wake snorlax unless they just use democracy to do it slowly I don't remember; will it be as hard as catching Zapdos in full anarchy? I swear the crowd is capable of great things - it's just the damn crutch of democracy which makes them weak.
I think it does require some precision although I don't know how much. The good thing about gen 2 though is that it should be a lot easier to use all of the HMs since you can just click on the boulder/water/bush/waterfall/whirlpool to use them instead of having to go through start and all that shit
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I swear every time I open the stream for the past few days we're at the mart or the pokecenter. Has anything actually happened in the last 8 hours?
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EPT
