Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Page 211

On February 19 2020 04:48 TheDwf wrote:
Today I got 5 joinbugs in a row when searching for 2v2. Then I found a game. And after, I got another joinbug. 6 errors out of 7 game attempts. They really need to do something about it...

Yesterday I was watching DeMusliM's stream and he had something like "Score: 154-2" written on the screen. But on the W3 booster overlay, his stats were 154-24. So at least 22 joinbugs resulting in a loss. Assuming he got the information about his 154 wins from the portrait screen, and assuming that he got as many wins as losses in joinbugs (seems to be around 50/50), there would also be something like 22 joinbugs in his wins. Total would be 44 joinbugs out of 176 games: 25% of errors.

On my profile, I have at least 59 joinbugs recorded (stats in races that I never played). And I have other joinbugs "hidden" in the stats of my main race too. Assuming a similar rate, that would be ~75 joinbugs out of 365 games. So ~20% of failures whenever I press the "play" button.

On February 18 2020 23:37 Manit0u wrote:


Blizz fucked WC3R, they fucked SCR too - even small details like the reverse ramps that weren't available in the original, how much work would it take them to actually implement correct graphics for them instead of this jumbled mess that looks absolutely horrid in HD?

They have just proven that they're no longer interested in creating quality products and all that matters to them is grabbing quick cash while the fanbase lasts.

I could forgive them one or two fuckups if they would follow up with something that was actually good. It was fuckup after fuckup for them basically non-stop for the past decade or so. I am no longer a fan and I no longer associate Blizzard with any quality. WC3R was the last time I gave them money to get my hopes crushed, never again.

On February 19 2020 06:44 deacon.frost wrote:

I'm more surprised they fucked this up while hyping it at Blizzcon. At least SCR wasn't this hyped so people went over it(it also didn't replace the SCBW, or did it?)

On February 19 2020 07:43 Excludos wrote:


I don't think they could even if they wanted to. They only came across the original source code for starcraft 1 halfway through the development of the remastered. It's pretty much entirely made from scratch. They also made SC1 free upon its release, showing that they care about people playing their legacy. It's almost like it's an entirely different company who made each of the games.

On February 19 2020 08:44 tec27 wrote:

That is... not at all true? They never lost the code to BW and a large portion of it is still intact/unchanged from the original. You may be confusing things with stories of how they lost a lot of things from Diablo 2 (although I'm not sure that they lost code, it's more likely they lost things like graphical assets).

They basically did the same thing with BW that they did with WC3 (forced replacement), they just had a longer rollout period and generally seemed more cautious about what they were doing. It seems that their lack of huge failures with that process emboldened them to go much more rapidly on the WC3 side, resulting in the debacle we all saw. It is certainly not like "an entirely different company", the dysfunction is extremely similar between the two, I think many people just remained oblivious to it until now.

On February 19 2020 09:05 Wombat_NI wrote:

There’s still a world of difference between the two, it may as well be a different company.

SCR isn’t perfect no, it’s still bloody decent for many of us. Brood War vets have pointed out where it is deficient and I largely agree with their perception, on the other hand for people in my position who just wanted to play the campaign again, maybe some ladder at some stage on modern hardware, more than decent.

Some of the observer changes are pretty decent and that’s an actual upgrade from the original UI.

I realise mods do manage all sorts of these things too, not everyone has the time or the knowledge of where to look for all these things that maybe BW vets take for granted. Tastes differ, I also think it looks pretty decent.

SC went free, cross play between versions was kept without touching the original game and there were no forced upgrades from players of the original version.

SCR doesn’t seem as good an effort as AoE2’s definitive edition as far as I can tell, but I figure it’s pretty decent and crucially it doesn’t break the original game.

I don’t see much evidence of forced replacements given most BW streams I watch to this day are usually using the original game still.

Reforged is a total disaster in so many ways.

On February 19 2020 09:40 tec27 wrote:

Again, there *was* a forced upgrade. BW has cross-play between HD and non-HD graphics, just as Reforged does, but you can't play with 1.16.1 users and remastered in the same game, and there's no real server to connect to as a 1.16.1 player (outside of ICCup, which is basically dead). There is no "cross play between versions", the network protocol has changed. They even broke the ability of 1.16.1 clients to watch replays played with newer versions (by changing the file format, despite the underlying game state being the same). The non-HD graphics were made worse between the pre-remastered patch (1.17) and the actual remastered release, for no apparent reason, and Blizzard has made no effort to fix this, which signals that they only really care about keeping recently-paying customers happy.

I get, and 100% agree, that Reforged's launch was worse, but trust me when I tell you that it is very much the same company and the same dysfunctional process that led to both. The only real differences are that A) Blizzard had a lot of fear of fucking things up because they hadn't shipped a remaster before BW, and B) the BW community actually had a fair amount of power to take control over everything, and that helped keep Blizzard's intentions and actions in check. Their relatively positive outcome with BW, and WC3's lack of a similar community structure meant that they acted much more haphazardly with WC3. To make things worse, they dreamed of things far larger than their team could possibly accomplish in the time allotted (and their PM failed to realize this and dial things back at the right times), and they ended up having to try to roll back a bunch of unfinished work while also finishing up the things they *had* to ship.

This is all conjecture, of course, but I've been writing software for a very long time, and all the signs of this happening are there to me. I also talked to their PM a few times while SC:R was being developed, so I think I'm a tad more knowledgeable than any random poster out there.

We are aware of the issue with the matchmaking where it states “Match Found” and doesn’t start or gets stuck. This has been reproducible on our end and we are working on a resolution.

Thank you for your reports, everyone! I’ll follow up whenever more details are available.

On February 19 2020 08:44 tec27 wrote:

That is... not at all true? They never lost the code to BW and a large portion of it is still intact/unchanged from the original. You may be confusing things with stories of how they lost a lot of things from Diablo 2 (although I'm not sure that they lost code, it's more likely they lost things like graphical assets).

They basically did the same thing with BW that they did with WC3 (forced replacement), they just had a longer rollout period and generally seemed more cautious about what they were doing. It seems that their lack of huge failures with that process emboldened them to go much more rapidly on the WC3 side, resulting in the debacle we all saw. It is certainly not like "an entirely different company", the dysfunction is extremely similar between the two, I think many people just remained oblivious to it until now.

On February 19 2020 22:24 Excludos wrote:


https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/300931/Without_code_from_the_original_Blizzard_had_to_build_StarCraft_Remastered_from_scratch.php

What basis did you have to claim it wasn't true?

On February 20 2020 11:00 tec27 wrote:

They patched the game prior to remastering it? I talked to Pete Stilwell multiple times as they were developing it? The remastered client binaries are very clearly still built from the same code? You cannot patch the game in the way they patched it without having the original code, period. I imagine that either A) quoted person (who is, notably, an art director) was simply talking about not having the source for tools used to turn 3D models into sprites, or B) quoted person is mistaken. There is simply no evidence that the source code for the actual game was ever lost, and it's absurd to think Blizzard would have ever started down the path of remastering the game if they didn't have access to it.