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United States47024 Posts
On July 27 2013 03:18 Talin wrote:
If Fallout NV had been made by a random group of people, it would have been called a mod.
It shouldn't get credit as its own game. Despite being a standalone release, it has been built entirely on top of Fallout 3 with minor Gamebryo facelift. It's the same engine, same concept, same setting, and mostly the same mechanics.
Fallout 3 should thus get credit for both the original game and New Vegas.
The same could be said of a lot of games that people credit as different games. People consider CS and Half Life different games. DotA and Warcraft 3. Arma 2 and DayZ (well, DayZ actually WAS a mod and still got its own entry). BG/PST/IWD (none are derivative of one another, but all use the same engine).
It just introduces too much trouble judging games if you consider mods/derivative games to be a part of the original game, because being lucky enough to have a good modder/development team choose your engine as the baseline for a good new game doesn't make the gameplay content of the original game automatically good. Furthermore, the intent of a top 100 list can only be really to suggest games for people to play, and lumping FO3 with NV doesn't actually tell anyone which one is worth playing.
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In my opinion the first FPS on that list and the highest up would have to be doom because without it Im not sure FPS gets as big as it is now. Quake also if you give more weight to older games those were amazing games at that time and have stood the test of time and were major advancements for FPS.
If you lean more towards modern though I guess you could throw any number of games on the list.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 27 2013 03:27 snakeeyez wrote:
In my opinion the first FPS on that list and the highest up would have to be doom because without it Im not sure FPS gets as big as it is now. Quake also if you give more weight to older games those were amazing games at that time and have stood the test of time and were major advancements for FPS.
If you lean more towards modern though I guess you could throw any number of games on the list.
I don't agree with giving older games fundamentally more merit based on their genre impact. Older games should be judged on how their gameplay holds up now. That said, there are plenty of older games that still hold up against their newer counterparts on the basis of their gameplay being better/more polished than newer, shinier derivative games. I don't think any more recent game has surpassed Quake 3 at the Quake formula, for example.
The fact of the matter is, the truly great older games don't *need* you to give them bonus points for being genre-defining games. Games like SC:BW, Quake 3, and BG2 stand up entirely on their own merits.
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hey im #87 on the list.
anyway this list is shit
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On July 27 2013 02:49 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 02:06 TheYango wrote:
It's simply not possible to have a writer who is both unbiased to all genres and plays all genres a fair amount, while also being familiar enough with each genre to make suitably intelligent and critical assessments of what the "greats" within that genre are. Well, that's funny. I'm not a professional reviewer by any stretch, yet I can easily see that the list is bullshit in several different genres: RPGs: Placing Skyrim at #1 makes me feel like a 10-year-old has assembled this list. FPS: It's an all-time list, so how could Team Fortress 2 possibly be ranked ahead of Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter Strike, etc.? RTS: How can SC2 be ranked ahead of BW? TBS: Civilization 5 is at #20 in the list. Civilization 4 is the better game. Fans of Civilization are almost unanimous on this point. Puzzle: Portal is at #14. Fair enough, it was good, but where is Braid? Where is Lemmings? What about Amnesia: Dark Descent if you want plot-driven puzzle-based games that last for a few hours?
I think fans are starting to feel like Civ5 since BNW is becoming even better than Civ4.
It's always the problem with this serie, they cut a lot of it to make room for expansions.
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On July 27 2013 03:18 Talin wrote:
If Fallout NV had been made by a random group of people, it would have been called a mod.
It shouldn't get credit as its own game. Despite being a standalone release, it has been built entirely on top of Fallout 3 with minor Gamebryo facelift. It's the same engine, same concept, same setting, and mostly the same mechanics.
Fallout 3 should thus get credit for both the original game and New Vegas. Lol, pretty funny stuff.
NV wasn't a "minor facelift" as you say, but it was one of the most complete RPGs of all time. It took a relatively bland game and gave it characters, good writing, political intrigue, a setting that's unparalleled in its immersiveness, and a story that really does depends on the player's choices. Even better, it provided numerous possible solutions for the player to almost every problem in the game, so that none of your character's skills would go to waste as they did in Fallout 3 and almost every RPG before NV. It's impossible to understate how simply awesome this last feature is in an RPG.
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On July 27 2013 03:18 Talin wrote:
If Fallout NV had been made by a random group of people, it would have been called a mod.
It shouldn't get credit as its own game. Despite being a standalone release, it has been built entirely on top of Fallout 3 with minor Gamebryo facelift. It's the same engine, same concept, same setting, and mostly the same mechanics.
Fallout 3 should thus get credit for both the original game and New Vegas.
I think all that really matters is which one you enjoy the most.
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On July 27 2013 03:30 TheYango wrote:
I don't think any more recent game has surpassed Quake 3 at the Quake formula, for example.
It really depends how you look at it quite honestly. The problem with Quake is that all of the games were fantastic (although many would tend to argue that Q4 was the weakest) but significantly different from one another at a competitive level in their subtleties, which lead to the scene always being fragmented between the different games and versions. I mean right now the healthiest of the lot is probably Quake Live, but I have no doubt that there are still significant active communities for QuakeWorld, Quake 2, CPMA and probably Q4 Max as well.
But it's impossible to determine which is the better game honestly; again the differences that seem insignificant at a casual level are completely game-changing at the upper echelons of play. It certainly doesn't help that everyone is so elitist about their version, CPMA players trashing Q4/QL, Q2 players trashing the rest, QW players claiming theirs has always been the best etc.
If you mean non-Quake games though, I'd like to say I agree, but I also have to mention Warsow. I think they did a great job even though the game doesn't do too much to distinguish itself from the Quake series.
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Worst list ive ever seen, and well, i have seen alot. So many huge gems missing in that top ten. Dune II, Baldursgate 2, Diablo, Half Life 1, Everquest(Yes, its the best game i have EVER played=D).
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Even if you take all of those games and put them into a completely random order there's a high chance you'd still get a way more logical list. :l Wasn't Diablo 3 generally agreed to be one of the worst disasters ever? Not a chance that piece of crap is a top 100 game. Skyrim and Oblivion, two of the worst Bethesda releases above Morrowind.  Saying Skyrim is the best game ever is like saying lil jon is the greatest musical genius who has ever lived.
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I thought the list was supposed to be PC games? Too many games that were later released or ported on PC way after they were already released on console.
The only CS on the list is GO with a horrible ranking, no 1.6.
Quake is way too low.
Starcraft 2 is top 10?
CoD: Modern Warfare instead of CoD1/2 which were actually good? (and actual pc games)
i have to take a shit now this list is so bad
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On July 27 2013 03:35 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 03:18 Talin wrote:
If Fallout NV had been made by a random group of people, it would have been called a mod.
It shouldn't get credit as its own game. Despite being a standalone release, it has been built entirely on top of Fallout 3 with minor Gamebryo facelift. It's the same engine, same concept, same setting, and mostly the same mechanics.
Fallout 3 should thus get credit for both the original game and New Vegas. Lol, pretty funny stuff. NV wasn't a "minor facelift" as you say, but it was one of the most complete RPGs of all time. It took a relatively bland game and gave it characters, good writing, political intrigue, a setting that's unparalleled in its immersiveness, and a story that really does depends on the player's choices. Even better, it provided numerous possible solutions for the player to almost every problem in the game, so that none of your character's skills would go to waste as they did in Fallout 3 and almost every RPG before NV. It's impossible to understate how simply awesome this last feature is in an RPG.
NV was a glorified mod. Having played through them both and vastly prefering FO3 contrary to popular opinion. Playing through them again atm, the only good things about NV are its "facelift" features (wep modding, hardcore mode, healing over time) the rest of the game blows balls in comparison IMHO. Im spending alot more time on FO3 because of its better atmosphere and "open world" - with NV i feel like i HAVE to wander through primm, to the army base down south, then to Nipton / novac AND THEN and only then does the world feel a bit more open. You're immediately boxed in with super mutants and deathclaws from the get-go, try harder difficulty / mods and you get buttfucked.
Thats why NV is just a glorified mod, because there are little to no differences between both of the games other then storyline / quests, which guess what, differ in mods / DLC too ^_^
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United States47024 Posts
Then do you consider Icewind Dale to be a "mod" of Baldur's Gate, despite them being entirely independently developed Infinity Engine games that both use the AD&D 2E ruleset?
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TF2 is the best 'modern' shooter - the game is nearly 6 years old and is still the 2nd most popular game on steam. But Quake 3, UT2k4, CS 1.6, NS 1.... come on.
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diablo1/diablo 2 not in there, but diablo 3 is, what a fucking joke
ut99 not there but ut04 is there, what a fucking joke
they got some right, like hl2, CoH, RA, civ, eve, xcmo etc
why isnt wc3 there? why isnt guild wars there?
seems like they didnt actually list the TOP 100 they just decided to list some good games
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On July 27 2013 04:52 peidongyang wrote:
ut99 not there but ut04 is there, what a fucking joke
Lol are you insane? It's a phenomenal game... now if they had put 2003 or 2007 on the list, sure...
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Tribes Ascend & Tribes 2 over Tribes (Granted the worst Tribes game is still better than many of the best non-Tribes FPSes, but still!)? DX:HR? No HL1 or D2? No rogue-likes other than Dwarf Fortress?
They include Dark Souls, but no cross system fighting games?
It's a top 100 list so whatever, it's not terrible either they at least included Tribes and Dwarf Fortress, but meh.
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Yeah, this Top 100 list screams "Recent Games" + "Best of" collection play.
While the old LucasArts games are pretty awesome, this list lacks "Another World" / "Out of this World" / "Outer World". That's generally the tell-tale sign the list lacks anyone with solid knowledge of the pre-CD or early CD eras. And... none of the Myst games? One of the best-selling games of all time? (I wasn't a huge fan, but it used to be top 10s for a long time)
Yeah, Diablo 3 over either 1 or 2, really? Yet they got Dungeon Keeper & System Shock 2 on there. This is one weird list, even among PC Gamer's previous lists.
I also see they can't quite get past the 98% they gave to Alpha Centauri so many years ago. (It was an solid game, but it wasn't worth that high of a score. Something they started walking back right after)
I'll actually somewhat defend the #8 for Minecraft. Sim City games have had places in top 25s for ages for the exact same type of play: creative control without any "end game". Minecraft just took it up a notch. (I don't play Minecraft, but I can see both the appeal and the quality involved)
Oh, and Age of Empires at #25? Really? They weren't that big of fans of the game when it came out, haha. (Starcraft we known to be the bigger RTS that was coming and C&C was better, though AoE was a good game)
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holy shit who voted on that list?
probably retards born in the mid 90s'
User was warned for this post
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I think you should not be too harsh with the list. In my oppinion the placement is secondary anyway as it is simply a matter of subjective taste. The intention in looking through those lists for me is to find games that are in my room collecting dust, and searching this one I found "monkey island", "beyond good&evil" and "Rome" which I will give a revisit this weekend for sure.
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EPT
