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On February 02 2014 06:14 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 06:25 Yoav wrote:
And hell, in the end of the day, if it's nothing more than a glorified cash grab that goes into funding TES:VI, I won't be too upset.
I wouldn't be so hyped for TES VI. Everything after III was slowly but steadily going downhill (IV and V were somewhat saved by the mods, but that's not to the developer's credit).
Not everyone shares that belief. I'll admit oblivion was a step down from morrowind, but skyrim was an amazing step up again.
have you ever gone back and played unmodded morrowind? Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and I still go back and play it from time to time. But the game isn't exactly problemfree. Major bugs, glitches, exploits, unresponsive and at times broken combat (have fun with those flying birds!), weird unintuitive skill system (you can level by jumping. So why would you ever not jump like a friggin bunny everywhere?).
Skyrim isn't perfect either. There's a ton of things they could have improved upon, and luckily we have modders for that. But its still pretty damn good.
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On February 02 2014 05:01 Projections wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 15:53 Omnishroud wrote:
What a pointless trailer. Not only did it look nothing like elder scrolls, it looks nothing at all like the game will be.
I wonder how much it cost to produce.
That was a very clear cash-grab attempt. The kids and casuals will watch that trailer and immediately rush to pre-order buy without knowing shit.
Im pretty ashamed at that lol. nearly 9 minutes? If might have been pointless for you, but there is a reason companies like Valve, Blizzard and Bethesda spend millions on trailers like this. It is a good investment. It brings the average joes to the game as you said. It also brings gaming fans who were clueless about about the game to the game. One of the main reasons I bought Vanilla WoW was the Vanilla WoW trailer which looked amazing to me when I was a kid. It is probably one of the better investments they make. To say it is not Elder Scrolls is laughable. To a TES fan this is a loregasm trailer. It has a lot of things TES fans love. In fact that trailer was more true to TES than the trailers for Oblivion and Skyrim. If you want more details on the many things within TES lore it has take a look here: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1wi0fp/a_new_trailer_for_teso_has_been_released_care_to/
Alot of whats in that link is "New this, new that, vague reference to vague reference of X or Y!" some of it is pretty solid though. You dont get to change the dremoras appearance completely and claim they're the same.
Oblivion and skyrim are 100% canon, henceforth their trailers (which i cannot remember) are too. This game is being actively dismissed as non-canon by bethesda now isnt it? vague references and major changes to central races are a bit much to call a loregasm. Its called TES so they have to somewhat use its background, which is what they did, they somewhat used it and changed everything they could get away with.
Trailers ARE always fan-service and cash grabs, for sure. But a 9 minute one is going way over the top, much like TOR did (and im still subbed to that, shamefully.) to draw in the star wars fans (which is why high level of purchases -> plummeting subs "omg this isnt like the cool trailer" it'll be the same for this.) The WoW trailers are something like 3-4 minutes, which is a more humble time really, still cash-grab CGI like all the others though ^_^
Rest is random replies / thoughts to random shit.
+ Show Spoiler +
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In terms of vanilla.
Skyrim = Nostalgic Morrowind > Morrowind > Oblivion.
The only thing that keeps people loving morrowind is preference for its map exploration style, setting and nostalgia. It really fucking sucks gameplay wise. Doesnt stop me loving it though D:
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MMO's need to realise how god damn important end game is. They need to create their game and then literally POUR everything they have into the end game for the next 3-6 months. Release enough content to begin with, balance it so it isnt cleared in 0.2 seconds, monthly releases that most people cannot keep up with via dps-checks or some shit along with the usual daily incentives and pvp stuff.
Of course, you'd need a good game to begin with. Which im not sure TES is.
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On February 02 2014 07:40 Omnishroud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 05:01 Projections wrote:On February 01 2014 15:53 Omnishroud wrote:
What a pointless trailer. Not only did it look nothing like elder scrolls, it looks nothing at all like the game will be.
I wonder how much it cost to produce.
That was a very clear cash-grab attempt. The kids and casuals will watch that trailer and immediately rush to pre-order buy without knowing shit.
Im pretty ashamed at that lol. nearly 9 minutes? If might have been pointless for you, but there is a reason companies like Valve, Blizzard and Bethesda spend millions on trailers like this. It is a good investment. It brings the average joes to the game as you said. It also brings gaming fans who were clueless about about the game to the game. One of the main reasons I bought Vanilla WoW was the Vanilla WoW trailer which looked amazing to me when I was a kid. It is probably one of the better investments they make. To say it is not Elder Scrolls is laughable. To a TES fan this is a loregasm trailer. It has a lot of things TES fans love. In fact that trailer was more true to TES than the trailers for Oblivion and Skyrim. If you want more details on the many things within TES lore it has take a look here: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1wi0fp/a_new_trailer_for_teso_has_been_released_care_to/ Alot of whats in that link is "New this, new that, vague reference to vague reference of X or Y!" some of it is pretty solid though. You dont get to change the dremoras appearance completely and claim they're the same. Oblivion and skyrim are 100% canon, henceforth their trailers (which i cannot remember) are too. This game is being actively dismissed as non-canon by bethesda now isnt it? vague references and major changes to central races are a bit much to call a loregasm. Its called TES so they have to somewhat use its background, which is what they did, they somewhat used it and changed everything they could get away with. Trailers ARE always fan-service and cash grabs, for sure. But a 9 minute one is going way over the top, much like TOR did (and im still subbed to that, shamefully.) to draw in the star wars fans (which is why high level of purchases -> plummeting subs "omg this isnt like the cool trailer" it'll be the same for this.) The WoW trailers are something like 3-4 minutes, which is a more humble time really, still cash-grab CGI like all the others though ^_^
It is not your place to tell a company like ZeniMax Media what is "over the top" and what is not. It is quite amusing that randoms on the Internet will give media companies advice, especially ones as stacked as Zenimax's. They know what they are doing and they felt their investment was worth it. Their Imperial Edition is the top selling game on PC, XBox One and PS4 I guess something is working.
ESO is non-canon?
What do the trailers and canon have anything to do with it? We saw things in the ESO trailer that we never see in other TES trailers, I mean we got to see Molag Bal in it at the end.
What are you talking about with the dremoras appearance? Do you even know what you are talking about? Because it seems like you just don't. If you do, please confirm what you mean by that.
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Ah, the typical response. Just be rude!
+ Show Spoiler +You could very well be right about a few things, but it doesnt give you the right to be a dickbag when ive given you no reason to be. As such i wont bother with a proper response.
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On February 02 2014 08:12 Omnishroud wrote:
Ah, the typical response. Just be rude!
Not rude but I am totally confused with this statement:
"You dont get to change the dremoras appearance completely"
What do you mean by that?
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On February 02 2014 08:14 Projections wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 08:12 Omnishroud wrote:
Ah, the typical response. Just be rude! Not rude but I am totally confused with this statement: "You dont get to change the dremoras appearance completely" What do you mean by that?
You dont get to change the dremoras appearance completely and claim they're the same.
They can do what the fuck they like as long as they dont claim its the same dremora and its canon.
Alot of whats in that link is "New this, new that, vague reference to vague reference of X or Y!"
Dremora have always been red. Or had red tatoo's, red armor. They have red eyes. They have dark ash / DARK blue skin colouring if it is not red.
These dremora (in the trailer) have a lighter skin tone (resulting in it being alot more blue), white tatoo's and blue eyes.
The best bit? I actually pulled this specific information from your link.
If the trailer is a "loregasm" because they've simply taken a bunch of concepts or unheard of things, changed them a bunch and added a bunch of new shit with flakey ties to pre-existing lore, then so be it. Dremora suddenly being a different colour with different markings and different eyes is just the one example i picked out because it was from your link.
But where is the lore explanation for the sudden change. Bonus points for it being believable and not fabricated purely for these recent dremora.
-Good lore, and its new additions have pre-existing circumstances / explanations for all occuring events. So X is introduced and explained with pre-existing Y
-Bad lore is where you introduce X and then introduce Y as an explanation to X. (I have strong suspicions that this is exactly what zenimax is / has been doing and why bethesda have recently changed stance on it being canon.)
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Oh and that twitter link is from ~5 months ago, a bunch of shits been flying around with bethesda recently (since probably Dec) saying it isnt canon. However i was unsure of this and actually put that as a question in my original post.
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Dremora have always been red. Or had red tatoo's, red armor. They have red eyes. They have dark ash / DARK blue skin colouring if it is not red.
These dremora (in the trailer) have a lighter skin tone (resulting in it being alot more blue), white tatoo's and blue eyes.
The best bit? I actually pulled this specific information from your link.
If the trailer is a "loregasm" because they've simply taken a bunch of concepts or unheard of things, changed them a bunch and added a bunch of new shit with flakey ties to pre-existing lore, then so be it. Dremora suddenly being a different colour with different markings and different eyes is just the one example i picked out because it was from your link.
But where is the lore explanation for the sudden change. Bonus points for it being believable and not fabricated purely for these recent dremora.
First, everything in this game in terms of lore is worked closely on with Bethesda. They aren't going to "make things up" unless Bethesda says it is ok. Read the link that I sent again:
Dagon's realm was depicted as red. His dremora were red skinned and red eyed.
Coldharbour is depicted as blue in ESO, so that might be why their eyes are blue instead of red.
The "loregasm" part is the fact that we see things in this trailer which we haven't seen before. The guys at TESLore were discussion things in the trailer as it relates to TES lore everything from the scamps to the gear to the eyes. Unlike you who flat out said "lol this isn't TES" which made zero sense. I know this rains in on your hate parade but the lore and everything in it has the approval of Bethesda including Todd Howard.
Bad lore is where you introduce X and then introduce Y as an explanation to X. (I have strong suspicions that this is exactly what zenimax is / has been doing and why bethesda have recently changed stance on it being canon.)
Again, everything ZoS is doing is stamped by Bethesda. They didn't change their stance on it being canon what they said were the single player games and the MMO are different games run by different studios.
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On February 02 2014 07:09 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 06:14 Manit0u wrote:On January 31 2014 06:25 Yoav wrote:
And hell, in the end of the day, if it's nothing more than a glorified cash grab that goes into funding TES:VI, I won't be too upset.
I wouldn't be so hyped for TES VI. Everything after III was slowly but steadily going downhill (IV and V were somewhat saved by the mods, but that's not to the developer's credit). Not everyone shares that belief. I'll admit oblivion was a step down from morrowind, but skyrim was an amazing step up again. have you ever gone back and played unmodded morrowind? Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and I still go back and play it from time to time. But the game isn't exactly problemfree. Major bugs, glitches, exploits, unresponsive and at times broken combat (have fun with those flying birds!), weird unintuitive skill system (you can level by jumping. So why would you ever not jump like a friggin bunny everywhere?). Skyrim isn't perfect either. There's a ton of things they could have improved upon, and luckily we have modders for that. But its still pretty damn good.
Hehe Morrowind was the only elder scrolls game I disliked. I disliked it though because the combat was terrible, I hated how you would swing your weapon and it would miss when it should have been a hit. That made me hate that game. I enjoyed oblivion/skyrim a lot more, I never messed with mods too much either.
Of course take my opinion with a grain of salt as I think the combat was fun and good in oblivion/skyrim and ESO, but a majority of people tend to think opposite  .
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On February 02 2014 08:47 Projections wrote:
I know this rains in on your hate parade.
Hrm. Wouldnt it be the opposite way round with me raining on your fandom parade with your 5 posts all about the same subject directed at me.
Im just having a discussion and giving an opinion.
So im wrong about it being non-canon, fair enough (for the 3rd time, it was a question, not a statement.) Ive also heard it far too many times from too many places to believe it fully yet but hey-ho, we'll roll with it.
In its canon-sphere, they are stillshitting on the lore and fans. You can make anything canon by adding it and its reasoning at the same time but suddenly you're contradicting things that have stood firm in lore across its entire history
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Dremora are red in colour/theme, Now they're blue for unknown reasons (you haphazarded a guess at its reason being a different plane, were all the dremora from 3,4, 5 from the same plane?)
-Sorry for pigeon-holing on this one example, there are many others but it serves its purpose well.
Adding things and its reasoning simultaneously works in a vacuum, sure, but if you add something that conflicts with pre-existing history (even if it doesnt contradict or conflict directly) suddenly it poses the question of why they mysteriously appear from nowhere when not a reference exists throughout the series prior.
-100's, 1000's of talkings, sightings, writings of dremora in their red-form through all TES games, history and lore.
-Suddenly in ESO there is a blue version and one paragraph to explain why. In fact you can add ALL the backstory to it you want and it still wont add up because it doesnt exist in any other TES game, its a complete anomaly.
One holds strong roots, the other is a seemingly random addition with no prior reference that looks extremely out of place in the bigger picture that is TES lore / history.
Im not sure if you watch or follow manga / anime but bleach and one piece are a good parallel to this.
-Bleach is notorious for random shit being added to its story with little to no explanation or prior mention.
-One piece is renowned for everything having an explanation in its history.
One is good lore / history building and the other is not. ESO is essentially making the "switch" that will eventually warp and convult TES lore until it is incoherent. You simply cannot add huge changes into such an intricate history without it looking completely out of place
At the end of the day, we have very limited information on this and im no expert on TES lore anyway, this is just my opinion on the very limited view we both have.
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I responded to your post, because of the tone of entitlement in your message. Not only did you call it "not Elder Scrolls" which is hilarious in itself as this has the stamp of approval from Bethesda but you actually mocked them for making a trailer. You know the same ZeniMax Media that has people like Jerry Bruckheimer and Leslie Moonves in their board of Directors, these are big shot entertainment guys that know more than some random person on TL forums.
The point of a trailer is to build interest and we will play the game to find out more about Molag Bol and his Dremora. To just brush it off like you did, was seriously hilarious. I mean you just stated it "looks extremely out of place", it seems like you feel you know more than the Loremasters at Bethesda and ZeniMax.
There aren't any "huge changes". There is too much in TES lore we know nothing about. Some left for mystery on purpose some that they will delve into further eventually. It is not your place to tell other companies how they should spend their money.
You need to stop making things up, and acting like you know what you are talking about, because you clearly don't.
What color eyes do they have?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Xivilai#Xivilai
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Xivilai_(Oblivion)
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From what I can tell, Xivilai are not Dremora. At least that's what the wiki you linked says.
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This thread took a strange turn all of a sudden.
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On February 02 2014 09:43 SKC wrote:
From what I can tell, Xivilai are not Dremora. At least that's what the wiki you linked says.
That wasn't my point, but all I will say is, if you play the game you will find out more. There is a reason they used them in the game, it isn't a complete fabrication like that one poster tried to claim it was.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Xivilai_(Online)
The Xivilai are powerful Daedra who serve Molag Bal in The Elder Scrolls Online. They are capable of summoning servants such as Flame Atronachs and Clannfear, and can be found near Dark Anchors.
These creatures existed, the "blue eyes" existed. Just because people didn't remember them doesn't mean they were "made up".
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Seems like just saying "They are not the same thing they thought they were in that reddit thread" would have saved a lot of forum space.
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Yeah sorry, i have no idea why he feels the need to be so aggressive instead of discussing the implications of how Zenimax are choosing to add lore.
Im a "random who knows nothing" but he is an all-knowing god. My opinion on subjects are things to be shat and spit on and are also "telling companies how to spend their money" but his are gospel.
but to answer your question, the Xivilai are a dark ash colour with white eyes and red armor / tatoo's. Perfectly in line with TES lore. They are also Daedra. Dremora are a specific subset of daedra that are completely unrelated to what you linked.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dremora_(Online)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dremora_(Skyrim)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dremora_(Oblivion)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dremora_(Morrowind)
Only one of those shows any remarkable difference.
Also, read the immense amount of history in those links you posted. Read the history and background of the daedra. *poof* suddenly theres an insert with no ties to any of it.
I mean you just stated it "looks extremely out of place", it seems like you feel you know more than the Loremasters at Bethesda and ZeniMax.
Why am i not allowed to have an opinion on something? If i think it looks out of place, then it looks out of fucking place (to me). Just because i think that doesnt automatically mean im running around screaming "I know more then loremasters!!" especially when im having a DISCUSSION you asshat.
You wont get any more out of me, you aggressive dimwit.
User was warned for this post
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I know what the Daedra and Dremora are, but you said the Xivilai a species you probably didn't know about are "out of place" in TES lore. You were wrong on that, so you posted a paragraph with no substance and spammed links that had nothing to do with the discussion, because you had nothing else to say. Everyone should have an opinion on things like this, but your opinion is flatly wrong.
I always find it funny that people that call out things like the trailer are usually ones that play a game like Skyrim and are all of a sudden TES purists. I personally find it hilarious. And when they are called out on it they go on with their rant trying to change the subject.
I mean the fact that you think a species have to have certain armor and eyes and tatoos to be "part of TES lore" is actually comedy gold.
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What do you expect? I don't think it's really possible to turn TES into a MMO. It's just not the kind of game to do so.
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I didnt want to link that as it doesnt seem substantial, although i guess his proof is a tweet lol.
To say an opinion is wrong though. Now THAT is humour.
Also this
On February 02 2014 15:34 Omnishroud wrote:
the Xivilai are a dark ash colour with white eyes and red armor / tatoo's. Perfectly in line with TES lore.They are also Daedra. Dremora are a specific subset of daedra that are completely unrelated to what you linked.
On February 03 2014 02:38 Projections wrote:
I know what the Daedra and Dremora are, but you said the Xivilai a species you probably didn't know about are "out of place" in TES lore.
Do you think he has trouble reading the things he is replying to or is it just me.
On February 03 2014 02:38 Projections wrote:
comedy gold.
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Meh.
When Blizzard, sitting on 1Billion a year of revenue releases a 4min trailer for MoP. I see where they come from.
When a not yet released MMO company releases a freaking 8min long trailer I can't help but question how much millions that is that won't get into development and if a 2min trailer with wouldn't have been more reasonable. And it reminds me way too much of SWTOR, which raises my skepticism.
Was good though for what it is. Sad to see nothing of the game in it.
On January 30 2014 08:50 Tilorn91 wrote:
The thing in question here is what can we as consumers do? I for one will not buy the game, but this is unacceptable what they are doing.
You're answering your own question Tilorn. Consumers speak with their money.
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EPT
