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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 10 2005 19:43 Syst[eM] wrote: While it is true that low level NE generally beats low level other races, at higher levels NE has no advantage. And that is why NEs are dominating everything, right? | ||
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SunShine
Netherlands787 Posts
 Orc has been owning it up just as much ^^ | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5458 Posts
like i said in the other thread, right now for me whenevr i random UD vs NE, i go like dual aura ghouls with sleep on DL, sleep heroes while doing flanks on his army, own him as hard as i can in the beginning, don't put too much pressure, expand, 2 slaughter aboms with dual aura are funn  then i add gargs or fiends if absolutely necessary | ||
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Muhweli
Finland5328 Posts
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
On September 10 2005 21:27 Manit0u wrote: Spirit_Moon is good but I don't like him much personally, Zeus's and APM70's aka Deadman's style is much better imo. And I think you're wrong. It's not the diversity of strategies that makes night elves so easy to play and hard to beat. In my opinion it's because they have better units than other races. Let's take a look at a couple of them ok? 1. Dryad: tier 2 unit, pretty cheap, 530 hp, ranged, slows down enemy, immune to magic, fast, has autocast dispel. Please show me other races units that are half this good :/ 2. Druid of the Talon: autocast faerie fire (reduces armor + gives you maphack), cyclone, can turn into powerful a-a unit 3. Druid of the Bear: roar, rejuvenation (this spell pwnzors), when in bear form they're the strongest melee unit around 4. Huntress: very low tech, over 500 hitpoints, ranged attack (range is very low but it's still 1 free hit vs melee), attack hits multiple targets Also some of their units/heroes can hide at night, their buildings walk and hit hard, they have really cheap and fast building main (for exps), and they haven't got 1 crappy hero. This could be the reason that they own so much, no? Edit: And I forgot that like no other race they can make extent use of tavern heroes since they work well with their usual unit combos. Oh, and did I mention moonwels? Edit2: I think I didn't mention mg's and staff they get in shop at t2 too... I kinda have to agree with NeoIllusions... Diversity is what makes NE pretty frustrating and strong, because they can use so many different heroes and strategies that if you're any good, and not just someone who watches replays all day and copies, then you have a serious advantage on your hands because the other races don't have nearly the amount of viable options, so in a sense the Night Elf can do less scouting and preparing and still be victorious. It's not that their units are naturally better either. Dryads have some nice skills and bears are tough but, the units aren't the problem. It's the fact that Night Elf can safely tech that easy while a race like Human, if they try to tech that quickly to tier 3 on certain maps, will not have the power to survive without mass towers. Bears aren't imbalanced. Tier 3 is SUPPOSED to beat tier 2. It's the little details common players don't pick up on that's the problem. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
"Human towers are imba" "Undead winning vs human? 'Wow' UD>>HU" ;( Is there any real imbalance/how bad is it (in this matchup and in general)? | ||
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Rs-FaKe
United States134 Posts
U>H if H doesn't cheese O>U N>O especially on TR NvU is just a war of atrition and really depends on the players (only list b/c I have heard many arguments for both ways) O>H (probably is better now, but this is probably my strongest matchup, so I may be biased. I still think it is pretty damn hard for a H to beat a O of similar skill) Keep in mind these are pretty close and come into play the most at high lvl. In terms of race, I don't think much needs to be changed. Maybe some minor tweaks like base defense upgrade for Hu, ensare for O, I don't really have any others b/c I haven't been playing a whole lot, but these stick out. | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
But none of those make much of a difference if you're an average player, except in some cases Orc vs Undead. Unless you're pretty close to equal players, there's not much racial imbalance to worry about. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17677 Posts
Personally I think that the imbalance lies in certain strategies, like orc's blademaster abuse vs nelf and ud early, nelf rushing with FL + archers vs everything etc. Anyway, I'd like 1 thing to be changed the most. Undead casters, so they would become actually playable, every other race uses casters 90% of the time while undead (which is a race relying highly on magic in background) use it maybe 1% of time (during whole time I play undead I used casters only once). This is one of the things that makes undead the hardest race to play imo, it limits the possibilities greatly since 5 of he undead units aren't cost-effective enough to be used :/ Orc's rarest unit is spiritwalker which is still used though. And nelf's mounted archers but they don't really need them. | ||
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Rs-FaKe
United States134 Posts
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SunShine
Netherlands787 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17677 Posts
SunShine: Thanks, just dl'ing some reps And as to the towers I think that Bjarke is the master in this matter ^_^ He is probably the only person in the world that fast expands while towering enemy and is successful at it. Btw. wasn't it Bjarke who invented this ultra fast tower rush vs orc and ne on echo? (eg. 3 starting peasants -> militia -> go to enemy base, 1 peasant to mine, 1 peasant builds mill) | ||
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SunShine
Netherlands787 Posts
I think he's also the one who brought back staff abuse as a human some time ago Atleast I started doing it afther I saw Bjarke do it in reps. | ||
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Rs-FaKe
United States134 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17677 Posts
btw. I think we're getting a bit off topic here ^_^ I'll create another one so we can whine there at will XD | ||
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SunShine
Netherlands787 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On September 11 2005 19:24 FrozenArbiter wrote: Haha, it's funny to read replay comments on wc3 replay sites "Human towers are imba" "Undead winning vs human? 'Wow' UD>>HU" ;( Is there any real imbalance/how bad is it (in this matchup and in general)? "WarCraft 3 is the only game in which all players think the race that they play is the weakest." ffs... -_-;; | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On September 11 2005 17:35 Orlandu wrote: I kinda have to agree with NeoIllusions... Diversity is what makes NE pretty frustrating and strong, because they can use so many different heroes and strategies that if you're any good, and not just someone who watches replays all day and copies, then you have a serious advantage on your hands because the other races don't have nearly the amount of viable options, so in a sense the Night Elf can do less scouting and preparing and still be victorious. It's not that their units are naturally better either. Dryads have some nice skills and bears are tough but, the units aren't the problem. It's the fact that Night Elf can safely tech that easy while a race like Human, if they try to tech that quickly to tier 3 on certain maps, will not have the power to survive without mass towers. Bears aren't imbalanced. Tier 3 is SUPPOSED to beat tier 2. It's the little details common players don't pick up on that's the problem. I <3 Orlandu. He pretty much elaborated on what makes NE such a strong race. | ||
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