Gonna start off by saying I think this event may have a better card then some people give it credit for. Most of the card is packed with really skilled fighters this time around.
Main event: Dan "Hendo" Henderson (28-8) vs Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (20-5) This one could be good. The main even consists of a decent all round fighter with a stick of dynamite replacing his right hand and a Muay Thai expert going up against him. Hoping for a barn burner of a main even but I'm calling Shogun taking the fight; assuming he can keep Hendo from wrestling and smothering him.
Co-Main Event: Wanderlei Silva (33-11) vs Cung Le (7-1) For those of you that do not know of Cung Le, he is stepping into a co-main event vs Wanderlei of all people as his first UFC fight, coming straight from Strikeforce. I think Le has what it takes though, he has a PERFECT 16-0 kickboxing record including K-1 stuff as well, and holds a strong record in MMA. Wanderlei just came off of his short loss to Leben and I personally think retirement is on the line for him.
Urjiah Faber vs Brian Bowles Oh boy, and a fight with Urijah Faber in it! Going against Brian Bowles who just like Urijah was a serious WEC contender. I am taking Urijiah here. I know he lost to Cruz, but Urjiah is still a really tidy package of an MMA fighter. Good punches, lacks kicks but can wrestle pretty good as well.
Martin Kampman vs Rick Story So Story showed up, somehow beat Thiago Alves wrestling around a bit, and then loses a HUGE upset to Charlie Breneman. Martin Kampman has some good wins in the past like Condit and Paulo Thiago, but Rick Story really is a rising star kinda guy. He's young, athletic, and if he can fight efficiently I don't think Kampman has the tools to win.
Stephan Bonnar vs Kyle Kingsbury For me at least, this fight will tell if Bonnar really is losing his edge or if he is still someone to keep an eye on in the division. Yes we know him for the epic fights with Forest and even with Soszynski which I LOVED, but he can never seem to break the higher level guys like Forest, Jones, Rashad, and more. If he loses this, stick a fork in him I think he is done. He should take Kingsbury but this is MMA after all.
Here is the hype video for UFC 139, pretty decent as usual. + Show Spoiler +
And here is Dana's Vlog (Day 1) for this event. These are kinda interesting to watch sometimes, I enjoy seeing 'behind the scenes' kind of stuff. Whatever. + Show Spoiler +
Call me dorky whatever but I LOVE seeing training camp videos for fighters. Probably because I train myself or I am just a dweeb. Whatever. Here is Wandy's (More hype/interview with very few training camp material. Pad work, etc) + Show Spoiler +
Cung Le never actually fought K1 or under any truly competitive kickboxing ruleset, they were all sanshou rules against cans/bums much like (most/all of) his mma career. I'm not going to completely count him out because Wandy's best days are far behind him but he should still be enough of a real fighter to kill Le. This fight is really closer to Pride matchmaking in that it's at least theoretically a hilarious mismatch. Wand please don't lose.
On November 15 2011 07:21 floor exercise wrote: Cung Le never actually fought K1 or under any truly competitive kickboxing ruleset, they were all sanshou rules against cans/bums much like (most/all of) his mma career. I'm not going to completely count him out because Wandy's best days are far behind him but he should still be enough of a real fighter to kill Le. This fight is really closer to Pride matchmaking in that it's at least theoretically a hilarious mismatch. Wand please don't lose.
Hendo/Silva/Bowles hopefully/Kampmann/Kingsbury
I didn't follow Pride closely, my question is why do you state that its a theoretically hilarious mismatched matchmaking fight?
I love watching Cung fight. His fight against Shamrock was extremely entertaining.
Also, Silva has been on the decline lately and I think its a good match up at this point in both of their careers. Hopefully Cung is focusing on MMA and not on movies since he's finally debuting in UFC
Faber vs Bowles = mojo battle to see who can elevate to the next level Silva vs Cung = Nothing really for Silva except to remain vaguely relevant, in the same manner Couture was relevant after the Brock fight, and an baptismal for Cung if he belongs to the UFC. Rua vs Henderson = Now this is something. For Rua, a test if the Jones underperformance was a fluke or if he really is unreliable, and for Henderson to be in the Championship radar.
Tough one, both good and I like em both,but guess gotta go for Shogun. His wrestling defense kind of worries me though, but Hendo is usually content to strike. Kampfman/Story should be good.
This is kind of crazy in a good way... back to back UFCs. Nick Diaz vs Penn, Leben vs Munoz, Cain vs JDS and now Shogun vs Henderson...
I think Shogun is going to win the main card though. I just don't see Shogun being LW champion anymore though if you have freakish fighters like Jon Jones in the division right now.
On November 15 2011 07:21 floor exercise wrote: Cung Le never actually fought K1 or under any truly competitive kickboxing ruleset, they were all sanshou rules against cans/bums much like (most/all of) his mma career. I'm not going to completely count him out because Wandy's best days are far behind him but he should still be enough of a real fighter to kill Le. This fight is really closer to Pride matchmaking in that it's at least theoretically a hilarious mismatch. Wand please don't lose.
Hendo/Silva/Bowles hopefully/Kampmann/Kingsbury
I didn't follow Pride closely, my question is why do you state that its a theoretically hilarious mismatched matchmaking fight?
I love watching Cung fight. His fight against Shamrock was extremely entertaining.
Also, Silva has been on the decline lately and I think its a good match up at this point in both of their careers. Hopefully Cung is focusing on MMA and not on movies since he's finally debuting in UFC
Pride was notorious for putting on freakshows and throwing Japanese prowrestlers / anyone the casual viewer would watch in against their stars. For instance Crocop fighting Dos Caras jr etc. Basically like James Tony vs Couture but with far more regularity. They weren't all this way but a good number of the fights were because the fans enjoyed it.
Specifically this fight to me is like Wandy vs one of his many completely overmatched Japanese opponents, if he were in his prime anyway. It's probably going to be way, way closer now than it would have been 8 years ago, and Wandy is chinny and slow enough to lose this but I could totally see Wandy fighting a Sanshou fighter in Pride solely for the delight of Japanese getting to see someones head kicked off.
Thanks for the info on Cung Le, floor exercise. Although I do think Wanderlei's 'days are behind him' as well, it has to be his style too. It is hard to throw huge looping punches every fight after another and keep seeing success.
On November 16 2011 07:58 Kickboxer wrote: I hope Shogun comes in with a full gas tank and takes out Hendo in an all out war! That would be super sweet.
I agree wholeheartedly lol. Dan Henderson's right hand can totally end a fight if it connects but Shogun doesn't seem like he needs you to make mistakes or get caught to beat you in a stand up war. If he does what he does best which is that very old school hands up, marching forward at his opponent, blasting kicks and hands consistently and bringing the Muay Thai heat, I don't see Hendo living through that unless he goes for takedowns.
Also look at this joker. It's cool to have fans but not cool to have douche idiots doing shit like this. Kinda cute and entertaining I guess.
I love Shogun but I wonder how he's most likely to win this one. Henderson has never been knocked out and Shogun will struggle to get the fight to the ground. Maybe if he can avoid the overhand right for a few rounds he can take out Hendo after he gasses.
I see your point for sure but Henderson has never fought anyone like Shogun. Matter of a fact I'd be willing to say Shogun has the BEST Muay Thai out of anyone in the entire UFC/StrikeForce scene besides maybe Thiago Alves. I just think Henderson is a dude who knows how to box with a brick of a right hand but he's fighting a god tier kickboxing expert. Don't get hit with Hendo's right. avoid takedown, win.
Shogun has a granite chin and KO power within every limb. Henderson probably would not defend against some of the best kicks in MMA that well. If Shogun does not mindless brawl, I see him winning via tko/ud.
I'll never count Hendo out, gritty veteran with a bomb of a right hand, indestructible chin and solid wrestling. But I can only see him winning early on, the later the fight goes the bigger Shogun's chances.
I think Cung Le's pretty legit too, he may have not fought any tip-top guys but he packs a lot of power and he's entertaining as hell, but this is Wanderlei and I'll always root for him whatever fight. It breaks my heart to see him lose. The fight probably wont last long whatever happens.
Le (Silva's chin looks like glass lately and I think it will be shattered) Bowles (just because it's an upset :D ) Story (GnP) Bonnar (Please retire after.)
On November 17 2011 20:32 Terminal wrote: I'll never count Hendo out, gritty veteran with a bomb of a right hand, indestructible chin and solid wrestling. But I can only see him winning early on, the later the fight goes the bigger Shogun's chances.
I think Cung Le's pretty legit too, he may have not fought any tip-top guys but he packs a lot of power and he's entertaining as hell, but this is Wanderlei and I'll always root for him whatever fight. It breaks my heart to see him lose. The fight probably wont last long whatever happens.
Cung Le getting the votes just for his entertainment value Probably going to get his ass handed to him though, and this coming from a fan who attended his gym for a couple years. His record in Strikeforce doesn't count for much in UFC, as far as I'm concerned. Hoping for a nice bout anyway, and maybe I'll be surprised. Don't think I'll be able to catch this live unfortunately.
i was a big fan of Wanderlai and got the impression he was better than he was lol past 8 fights 6 losses and 2 wins.. I think Cung Le will win with an impressive performance
hendo dec silva tko 2 faber tko 3 kampmann tko 1 bonnar tko 3 bader tko 2 mcdonald tko 2 baczynski sub 1 torres sub 3 dos anjos dec lawlor dec castillo dec
looks like you have to register unless i'm missing something
You do but its MUCH better than the free ones. Today they giving away free day passes. Their quality is even better that ufc.tv. I paid $60 or $65 for a year pass and i've watched like 4 or 5 ppv already lag free with quality on par or better than the ufc.tv.
looks like you have to register unless i'm missing something
You do but its MUCH better than the free ones. Today they giving away free day passes. Their quality is even better that ufc.tv. I paid $60 or $65 for a year pass and i've watched like 4 or 5 ppv already lag free with quality on par or better than the ufc.tv.
looks like you have to register unless i'm missing something
You do but its MUCH better than the free ones. Today they giving away free day passes. Their quality is even better that ufc.tv. I paid $60 or $65 for a year pass and i've watched like 4 or 5 ppv already lag free with quality on par or better than the ufc.tv.
apparently it's just the first 100 to reply to some thread that receive this promotion.
is it possible to just post the link for the stream?
I used to cheap like most of you trying to find the best free stream and always ended up disappointed with lag and crappy streams that always have like half the screen with annoying ads and i found that site and never had to look back.
On November 20 2011 10:28 Diablo666 wrote: I used to cheap like most of you trying to find the best free stream and always ended up disappointed with lag and crappy streams that always have like half the screen with annoying ads and i found that site and never had to look back.
I have to say thanks for sharing that link, I signed up and got a free pass. Solid non lag HD stream. This will be my first UFC ever since UFC 70 or so I will be watching in HD. Thanks bro!
On November 20 2011 10:28 Diablo666 wrote: I used to cheap like most of you trying to find the best free stream and always ended up disappointed with lag and crappy streams that always have like half the screen with annoying ads and i found that site and never had to look back.
I have to say thanks for sharing that link, I signed up and got a free pass. Solid non lag HD stream. This will be my first UFC ever since UFC 70 or so I will be watching in HD. Thanks bro!
On November 20 2011 10:36 Makenshi wrote: Aw someone called me missed the entire Bader fight! Guess i'll try to find a summary, how was your guys thoughts about the fight?
I had 3 streams open and it wasn't on any of the streams, I missed it aswell O_O.
I love watching Stefan fight because I know how big he is, met him IRL . He actually seems quite similar in size to Junior Dos Santos . IN contrast, Rashad Evans was TINY. Can't believe the man fought in heavyweight!
The guy fighting bonnar should never fight again. How can you call yourself a "professional" yet not even show a single sliver of knowledge on the ground game.
Didn't he do the same thing either his last fight or the fight before this and said he had to fight smarter from now on and not just go bang and bleed? Impressive performance tho
On November 20 2011 11:33 PanN wrote: The guy fighting bonnar should never fight again. How can you call yourself a "professional" yet not even show a single sliver of knowledge on the ground game.
wtf? He's been defending and defending and defending the entire fight. If he didn't know anything, he would've been tko'ed in a crucifix ages ago
On November 20 2011 11:33 PanN wrote: The guy fighting bonnar should never fight again. How can you call yourself a "professional" yet not even show a single sliver of knowledge on the ground game.
Thanks for being shitty fans idiots. Boo more. Learn some Jiu Jitsu so your tiny brain doesn't get bored when complex grappling happens. Very skillful on Bonnar's part. Fight coulda been better but can't hate.
I hope Kampmann destroys Rick Story, i really dislike story due to the extreme hype he got, saying he's the new GSP and he'll dominate GSP.. and in every fight he gets extremely gas'd in mid 2nd-early 3rd.. Tho that's what's great about MMA, you love some fighters you hate some, but no matter what if you do it just makes it all the more interesting :D
VERY impressed with Kampmann! I knew he had stand up but that was GREAT technical Muay Thai and that time at Xtreme Cotoure did wonders for him obviously. Good wall walking, good ground game considering most people would think Story had the advantage there. Big props to Kampmann.
On November 20 2011 12:04 aaronlolol wrote: VERY impressed with Kampmann! I knew he had stand up but that was GREAT technical Muay Thai and that time at Xtreme Cotoure did wonders for him obviously. Good wall walking, good ground game considering most people would think Story had the advantage there. Big props to Kampmann.
I think Kampmanns been good, gotten better obviously, but his biggest weakness is that he seems to be a stubborn guy who tries to go BJJ with BJJ guys and tries to stand up with standup guys.. He's extremely wellrounded but his fight IQ is his weakness i think
Getting the replay I don't see chun lee doing anything from that position except getting punched in the head, so while the stoppage wasn't the best, I'm ok with it.
I really want Wanderlei to retire cause I can only see ANOTHER brutal knockout loss in future. Beating Cung was nice, but Cung is also an old man that can't keep up with other high level fighters.
Wandy can really turn it on when he has an opening and just obliterate people. Real killer instinct and the right tools to finish people brutally. His overall skill isn't nearly as good though in my opinion, like his technical striking and mid range weapons.
On November 20 2011 12:58 Haemonculus wrote: I was really enjoying watching Le though. I thought I was watching streetfighter or something. Punch punch SPIN!
I was half expecting him to fire off a haidoken or two between those random spinny kicks.
His kicks were awesome, but he seriously needs to come in in better shape than that. Flabby stomach and his cardio took a harsh fall in the second round. If he could keep a good pace with those kicks I can't see Wandy doing anything ( or even surviving ). Should get a cardio guy and come in with a 6 pack next time.
Wanderlai had a really good strategy this fight, everytime Cung, or most of the time, was gonna kick, spin, commit to anything, Wandi was on his feet jumping back, i'm happy for Wandi Sad for Cung and now we've got Hendo vs RUA! Awesome Card!
I thought the stoppage was fine. Boxing refs stop fights when the fighter isn't out on his feet, but he is taking crazy punishment. This seemed like that kind of situation.
On November 20 2011 12:58 Haemonculus wrote: I was really enjoying watching Le though. I thought I was watching streetfighter or something. Punch punch SPIN!
I was half expecting him to fire off a haidoken or two between those random spinny kicks.
His kicks were awesome, but he seriously needs to come in in better shape than that. Flabby stomach and his cardio took a harsh fall in the second round. If he could keep a good pace with those kicks I can't see Wandy doing anything ( or even surviving ). Should get a cardio guy and come in with a 6 pack next time.
Agreed. He's got to lose all that stomach fat. He could make 170 no problem
I really don't follow MMA much, but anyone else think if Hendo wouldn't have let Shogun get back up in the first round, the match would have ended a bit earlier?
Pride delivered lol. They shouldve been on last week. edit: The result was justified i think because damage wise the rounds Hendo won were way more damaging than Shoguns. The 5th was mostly shogun in mount but he had no strength left to do much damage so in my book it was 47-46 or 45. I like both of them so im kind of sad one of them had to lose
Dan Henderson won under the stupid as hell 10 point must system, Shogun wins under the more reasonable scoring system that Pride had. If the fight went any longer, Shogun wins. That fight has to happen again. Both of them have the spirit of champions and when you put together two fighters like them in a fight, you get something special.
On November 20 2011 13:47 nams wrote: one of the most enjoyable fights of recent memory
Even better than Cain vs Dos Santos?!?
That was hardly even a fight, let alone a good one.
I think tonight was the best night of fights all year. Not a single boring fight. I really hope we get a Hendo vs Shogun 2 sometime in the future because that fight was so fucking entertaining.
On November 20 2011 13:50 Nerf_Zerg wrote: "UFC 139" probably could be the most amazing card in the company history. Most of the fights were amazing and the last one between Rua-Hendo was EPIC.
This is why pride was so fucking awesome. Too much LNP in UFC right now. People can argue and get on their high horse as much as they want and try to act all sophisticated about how the UFC is so much more technical and shit (they may be right), but these kind of fights is why so many people always talk so highly about pride. This fight was fucking awesome and both of them were using striking, Bjj, and wrestling to try to finish the fight. Fucking great fight.
On November 20 2011 13:50 Nerf_Zerg wrote: "UFC 139" probably could be the most amazing card in the company history. Most of the fights were amazing and the last one between Rua-Hendo was EPIC.
How were the prelims? If they were any good I'll watch them tommorow
On November 20 2011 13:50 Nerf_Zerg wrote: "UFC 139" probably could be the most amazing card in the company history. Most of the fights were amazing and the last one between Rua-Hendo was EPIC.
How were the prelims? If they were any good I'll watch them tommorow
On November 20 2011 14:00 Beardedclam wrote: This is why pride was so fucking awesome. Too much LNP in UFC right now. People can argue and get on their high horse as much as they want and try to act all sophisticated about how the UFC is so much more technical and shit (they may be right), but these kind of fights is why so many people always talk so highly about pride. This fight was fucking awesome and both of them were using striking, Bjj, and wrestling to try to finish the fight. Fucking great fight.
This is an awful, awful post. You spent a paragraph criticising the UFC for not staging fights like the one we just saw the UFC stage. Go figure.
2 points in response anyway:
1) Pride was big in a time when there were lots of one-dimensional fighters and the sport was less controlled. We can't go back to that time. So stop crying. It's like hoping the NFL goes back to leather hats instead of helmets...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, OLD TIMER.
2) There have been some truly insane fights through the UFC's history, some for their great endings and some for the balls-to-the-wall fighting all the way through (not to mention a few great ones in Strikeforce ie Diaz v Daley). There were boring fights in Pride, too, you either haven't seen them because you are an inexperienced fan and have only seen greatest hits of Pride, or you have a selective memory. I have plenty of Pride events where there are snoozefests.
By the way, thought it was a GREAT fight, true warriors in the octagon. Hendo is 41...can't believe it. He has really slipped under the radar hasn't he? Cleaning house of his old Pride rivals. Unbelievable man...
Pretty satisfied with my predictions, I should put some effort into perfects though. But hell, who would've thought the main event would go to distance.
Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
Just got home and only missed the main event but heard the results. Sad but can't wait to see the fight. As for that stoppage.........well I will say this. It's obvious that Cung was in big trouble and his chances of making it out of that situation were slim obviously but still existed. I don't agree with that stoppage but to be fair, reffing fights in MMA is seriously far from easy.
Can't wait to see the main event, sounds good just from browsing the thread.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
bisping got thoroughly beaten by wanderlei as well and bisping is one of the best guys in the division
Pride did not allow tippity tap strikes LNP to go on for more than 15seconds. It made for very hard for fighters to grind out wins just by LnP and takedowns. They were forced to finish quickly with submissions and leaning against each other in the ropes for long periods was just not allowed. That and knees, stomps, soccer kicks on the ground
It had nothing to do with how one dimensional fighters were.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
bisping got thoroughly beaten by wanderlei as well and bisping is one of the best guys in the division
Bisping < Wanderlei < Leben < Munoz < Okami < Chael < Anderson < Future Chael.
If he's that far away from the top it's not really accurate to say that he's one of the best guys in the dvision.
The fight was so action packed that I forgot what happened to all the other rounds after the last round. It was very close to call, and could have gone either way. I myself favored Rua, so that he could get into the title picture soon. I can't feel to bad with Hendo winning though. He did just enough. But damn 5 rounds for a senior citizen lol. He really showed his age. Last time I remember Hendo was him fucking H-Bombing loud mouth Bisping on the ground. The two Hendos seemed 20 years apart.
I don't understand Rua's game plan though. I mean come on, everyone and their mothers know what Hendo will do - uncork the right hand and use wrestling to stop the game from getting to the ground. Rua all night was looking for a jab-right uppercut combination. This made sense after I saw that it is a great pre-counter to Hendo's right hand, as he leaves himself open to an uppercut just before he unloads it. But what bothers me is the Rua chooses to go left hook after that combo, which open him precisely to the H-Bomb. I've seen your training videos Shogun, and I'm a huge fan. What happened to the bob-weave-right hook or bob-weave-head kick that I see you teach as a set-up to counter a right hand? And what about leg kicks? Damn! We always knew Rua could take a punch, this only solidifies it. But he bleeds easy.
On November 20 2011 18:05 Zvek wrote: My score: (Rua-Hendo) 1. 9-10 2. 9-10 3. 9-10 4 10-9. 5. 10-8
Draw! But I guess the judges had round 5 at 10-9! Epic fight! WAR RUA!!!
How can you possibly not give at least one 10-8 round in the first 3? Hendo mowed down Shogun. In fact the only reason Shogun managed to get to the end was Hendo gassed hard trying to finish him.
10-8 rounds are really rare, people like to toss them around a little too much in my opinion. the last round was defiantly in shoguns favor but i did not see anything that happened in the round to warrant a 10-8. also if you are giving points due to how the rest of the fight went or because you want to see a draw then thats not good judging. but i have to say that was an INCREDIBLE fight. after hendo poped shogun and dropped him in the third but failed to finish him i knew hendo was going to be in trouble because he was showing signs of being very tired at the end of the bell rounds like putting his hands on his knees and deep breaths. these guys are trained to NOT show signs of weakness like that because it tells the opponent hey come get me! the whole fifth round i was on the edge of my seat lol.
Those two fights were brilliant, I had such a rush throughout them, I don't remember when was the last time I felt that (except when rooting for someone whom I'm passionately admire).
But, man, I hate those judges... I saw a draw, and I could understand a victory for Hendo by 47-46, but not 48-47. Hendo was mounted and taking shots almost the entire round, completely dominated. If that last round wasn't a 10-8, then I don't know what a 10-8 is supposed to look like, man...
I guess the controversy on the scoring serves to make it even more memorable. One of the best nights of MMA ever.
I wouldn't call Bisping one of the best fighters in that division either. He's gotten pretty lucky with the cards and some fights including the Matt Hamill one where I had MH winning.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
bisping got thoroughly beaten by wanderlei as well and bisping is one of the best guys in the division
Bisping < Wanderlei < Leben < Munoz < Okami < Chael < Anderson < Future Chael.
If he's that far away from the top it's not really accurate to say that he's one of the best guys in the dvision.
I hate Bisping. I think that he's a massive douchebag and I cheer against him everytime he fights but it doesn't change the fact that he's a legitimately good fighter who's earned his dues. Don't confuse rankings with mmath.
It's nonsense to say that anyone Wanderlei beats is automatically not UFC material.
edit: The scoring is all over the place. Rick Story got his ass beat for 3 rounds and won the fight on one of the judges scorecards. Bonnar somehow earned a 30-25 for his fight from one of the judges and yet every round was scored 10-9 in the hendo-shogun fight, when rounds 3 and 5 were dominant than anything Bonnar did.
On November 20 2011 18:05 Zvek wrote: My score: (Rua-Hendo) 1. 9-10 2. 9-10 3. 9-10 4 10-9. 5. 10-8
Draw! But I guess the judges had round 5 at 10-9! Epic fight! WAR RUA!!!
How can you possibly not give at least one 10-8 round in the first 3? Hendo mowed down Shogun. In fact the only reason Shogun managed to get to the end was Hendo gassed hard trying to finish him.
Which of the first three rounds, though? While Hendo was dominant over the three rounds I don't think he was dominant enough in any of the individual rounds to warrant a 10-8. The fifth was the only round of the fight that was an obvious 10-8 round.
I thought it was going to go the way Zvek scored it before the scores were read.
There are no knockdown rules in MMA, so the idea of knockdowns being an exception in judging makes no sense. A 10-8 score is based on the dominance exhibited, of course knockdowns are a serious factor in that but they aren't and never will be a reason alone for a 10-8.
Every round shogun got knocked down he landed on Hendo, he fought back, he swept Hendo several times. Dan clearly won the rounds but there were two fighters in each of them, the same can't be said for the 5th. I wouldn't rule them out as being 10-8s, but if they were then the 5th was even more so.
The irony is that earlier that night Bonnar got a 30-25 nod from one judge over Kingsbury for controlling him on the ground, but in a way that was far less dominant than Shogun showed vs Hendo who he had full mount for 90% of the round and landed better gnp than Bonnar did in his entire fight. Simply following the precedent set earlier that night Shogun should have had a 10-8, since one judge felt that there were two 10-8 rounds where Bonnar basically laid on Kingsbury, had many dominant positions but not mount from what I can remember of that dreadful fight. I don't know if the same judge was scoring both fights, I imagine so, so it's really confusing how that was not a 10-8 on his score card.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
bisping got thoroughly beaten by wanderlei as well and bisping is one of the best guys in the division
Bisping < Wanderlei < Leben < Munoz < Okami < Chael < Anderson < Future Chael.
If he's that far away from the top it's not really accurate to say that he's one of the best guys in the dvision.
I hate Bisping. I think that he's a massive douchebag and I cheer against him everytime he fights but it doesn't change the fact that he's a legitimately good fighter who's earned his dues. Don't confuse rankings with mmath.
It's nonsense to say that anyone Wanderlei beats is automatically not UFC material.
Don't be silly. Being a bad fighter doesn't mean you're not UFC material. There are lots of bad fighters in the UFC.
How has he earned his dues? Who has he beaten? A bunch of no name fighters who got cut? Legitimate judging with his victory over Matt Hamill (who is far from elite)? He goes up against Rashad and loses. He goes up against Hendo and we get one of the most beautiful moments in MMA history and one of the funniest (the British double). He goes up against Wanderlei who, at that point, was 1-3 in the UFC and got completely destroyed.
He blatantly cheated to take out Jorge Rivera and Akiyama of all people almost knocked him out.
On November 21 2011 04:39 floor exercise wrote: There are no knockdown rules in MMA, so the idea of knockdowns being an exception in judging makes no sense. A 10-8 score is based on the dominance exhibited, of course knockdowns are a serious factor in that but they aren't and never will be a reason alone for a 10-8.
Every round shogun got knocked down he landed on Hendo, he fought back, he swept Hendo several times. Dan clearly won the rounds but there were two fighters in each of them, the same can't be said for the 5th. I wouldn't rule them out as being 10-8s, but if they were then the 5th was even more so.
If Shogun's inability to do damage in R5 is worthy of a 10-8 round (I think it should) then Dan smashing Shogun's head in R3 is also worthy of a 10-8 round which has the same result with the same point difference.
yeah, a number of people are complaining about the decision. I also clearly saw a draw, but who cares about the decision after a fight like that. A day later, I can say it was the greatest UFC fight I have seen.
People rarely ever talk about who actually won the Griffin vs. Bonnar fight. It will be the same for Rua vs. Henderson.
I'm also glad there's no talk about an immediate rematch. Let this fight live on in our minds for awhile longer.
On November 20 2011 15:19 Alokiya wrote: Seeing Wanderlei work the knees again was a treat by itself, I was happy with the card at that point. Then Hendo and Shogun fought the hardest I have ever seen 2 people fight in MMA. In the back of my mind, I was wondering if one of them was going to collapse or have to forfeit because of exhaustion if they kept an insane pace for round 5, holy crap was that amazing.
I think it's more chun lee isn't ready for the big boy leagues yet. He lost to someone who is like 2-8 in the UFC. Some people can cut it, some can't.
bisping got thoroughly beaten by wanderlei as well and bisping is one of the best guys in the division
Bisping < Wanderlei < Leben < Munoz < Okami < Chael < Anderson < Future Chael.
If he's that far away from the top it's not really accurate to say that he's one of the best guys in the dvision.
I hate Bisping. I think that he's a massive douchebag and I cheer against him everytime he fights but it doesn't change the fact that he's a legitimately good fighter who's earned his dues. Don't confuse rankings with mmath.
It's nonsense to say that anyone Wanderlei beats is automatically not UFC material.
Don't be silly. Being a bad fighter doesn't mean you're not UFC material. There are lots of bad fighters in the UFC.
How has he earned his dues? Who has he beaten? A bunch of no name fighters who got cut? Legitimate judging with his victory over Matt Hamill (who is far from elite)? He goes up against Rashad and loses. He goes up against Hendo and we get one of the most beautiful moments in MMA history and one of the funniest (the British double). He goes up against Wanderlei who, at that point, was 1-3 in the UFC and got completely destroyed.
He blatantly cheated to take out Jorge Rivera and Akiyama of all people almost knocked him out.
On November 21 2011 04:39 floor exercise wrote: There are no knockdown rules in MMA, so the idea of knockdowns being an exception in judging makes no sense. A 10-8 score is based on the dominance exhibited, of course knockdowns are a serious factor in that but they aren't and never will be a reason alone for a 10-8.
Every round shogun got knocked down he landed on Hendo, he fought back, he swept Hendo several times. Dan clearly won the rounds but there were two fighters in each of them, the same can't be said for the 5th. I wouldn't rule them out as being 10-8s, but if they were then the 5th was even more so.
If Shogun's inability to do damage in R5 is worthy of a 10-8 round (I think it should) then Dan smashing Shogun's head in R3 is also worthy of a 10-8 round which has the same result with the same point difference.
I guess the difference of opinion comes from whether you believe a round should be a 10-8 based on the round as a whole or from the most significant actions. I'd have to rewatch the fight but even when Shogun got dominated it was never for an entire round like say, the Edgar/Maynard rounds in their 2nd and 3rd fights. Those should probably have been 10-8s because there was no point when Edgar wasn't getting destroyed.
It's like the burden being on the round loser to make sure he gets his 9, Hendo was like a dead fish in the 5th, he didn't in my eyes do anything to deserve 9 points
This was one of the best fights I've ever watched. Huge fan of both guys, was pulling for Shogun to take this one thought. I felt it was a draw although I don't disagree totally with the way it was scored. Was pretty damn close in the third to being 10-8 for hendo.
Shogun is one of the most exciting fighters in the sport ever. This isn't the first time he's had a battle like this and delivered for the fans. His fights against Rampage, and LiL Nog were epic. The Machida fights were fantastic. He's had his moments that left a lot to be desired but I feel like a rematch would be fine. If rashad is fighting for the belt, then there isn't any reason to not have these guys fight again. If for some reason they give Dan the chance to fight Jones/Lyoto then put Shogun vs Rashad.
On November 21 2011 04:49 broz0rs wrote: yeah, a number of people are complaining about the decision. I also clearly saw a draw, but who cares about the decision after a fight like that. A day later, I can say it was the greatest UFC fight I have seen.
People rarely ever talk about who actually won the Griffin vs. Bonnar fight. It will be the same for Rua vs. Henderson.
I'm also glad there's no talk about an immediate rematch. Let this fight live on in our minds for awhile longer.
amazing fight... got to give it to hendo for those first three rounds, round 3 by 10-8, and the last two to shogun, round 5 by 10-8, so yes i agree with the decision. i'm still conflicted about the whole thing though because if it went on obviously shogun would win. also with hendos age, as amazing as he is, he has nowhere to go but down in the future, whereas shogun could still reach a higher potential. so, one of the greatest fights of all time and fight of the year, and while i agree with it, a painful outcome.
I couldnt believe how small Hendersons legs looked in comparison to his body and next to Shoguns. It was like he had childrens legs. Wierd thing to say, but it distracted me the whole fight lol
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Probably going to get his ass handed to him though, and this coming from a fan who attended his gym for a couple years. His record in Strikeforce doesn't count for much in UFC, as far as I'm concerned. Hoping for a nice bout anyway, and maybe I'll be surprised. Don't think I'll be able to catch this live unfortunately.![[image loading]](http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3920/wanderleisilva006.jpg)
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