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On September 27 2012 04:42 Jojo131 wrote:Ulduar hardmodes were fantastic because of how they were implemented into the encounters, like choosing not to kill any of Freya's guardians before the fight, racing through the gauntlet fast enough to reach Thorim before Sif leaves so that you have to fight both of them at the same time, fighting Yogg-Saron without any of the Keepers help, etc. Hell, even Mimiron and the "BIG RED BUTTON" was so silly it was actually cool to have as a trigger for hardmode. Definitely one of Blizzard's best works in terms of catering to casuals and creating content that was also fun for hardcore players. Nowadays you just flip a switch and BAM hardmode activated, doesn't feel as intuitive at all, which is why Ulduar was such a special raid  Edit: on topic, MoP leveling has probably been the funnest leveling experience I've had in all my years of playing WoW, this is definitely a surprise because as a PvP person I never thought I'd end up praising the work they've done to make questing more interesting in terms of gameplay and story telling.
Yea I think it's universally agreed at this point that Ulduar's Hard Modes were the best iterations of Hard Modes ever in the game.
The problem is, more of a design thing. How do you make an interesting activation like that for EVERY single encounter now?
Back in Ulduar, there were a couple bosses that didn't have a hard mode, and there likely wouldn't have been any interesting way of turning one on to begin with.
Following the success of Hard Modes Blizzard just went and stream lined it, but killed the creative side of it that made the modes so immersive.
/shrug.
I miss Ulduar. It was a damn good raid.
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On September 27 2012 05:09 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:54 Hubble wrote:On September 27 2012 04:46 qanik wrote:
I haven't been playing for years and I'm wondering how are people leveling so fast? I mean, there's already so many lv90 monks.. From what I heard, they did 1-80 in HOURS, how is that even possible? I played two hours and I'm lv12.
I really need some tips, leveling another char to 80 is going to be a real pain. btw I'm horde, panda monk. They are so fast because they start at level 80 due to the recruit a friend system where you can create a level 80 character of any race/class. And for fast leveling... grab some heirlooms and do a combination of instances of normal questing. No that doesn't work xD U can't RaF to level 80 monk it says so in F&Q. Recruit a friend on its own works though. Double xp to level 70 or 80 then power level beyond that to 90
i watched 3 guildies RAF their monks to 80 in a span of minutes
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On September 27 2012 05:29 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:09 Pandemona wrote:On September 27 2012 04:54 Hubble wrote:On September 27 2012 04:46 qanik wrote:
I haven't been playing for years and I'm wondering how are people leveling so fast? I mean, there's already so many lv90 monks.. From what I heard, they did 1-80 in HOURS, how is that even possible? I played two hours and I'm lv12.
I really need some tips, leveling another char to 80 is going to be a real pain. btw I'm horde, panda monk. They are so fast because they start at level 80 due to the recruit a friend system where you can create a level 80 character of any race/class. And for fast leveling... grab some heirlooms and do a combination of instances of normal questing. No that doesn't work xD U can't RaF to level 80 monk it says so in F&Q. Recruit a friend on its own works though. Double xp to level 70 or 80 then power level beyond that to 90 i watched 3 guildies RAF their monks to 80 in a span of minutes
Ya it is stupid quick. But u dont start level 80 technically like u wud do if u got resseructed xD
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On September 27 2012 05:30 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:29 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On September 27 2012 05:09 Pandemona wrote:On September 27 2012 04:54 Hubble wrote:On September 27 2012 04:46 qanik wrote:
I haven't been playing for years and I'm wondering how are people leveling so fast? I mean, there's already so many lv90 monks.. From what I heard, they did 1-80 in HOURS, how is that even possible? I played two hours and I'm lv12.
I really need some tips, leveling another char to 80 is going to be a real pain. btw I'm horde, panda monk. They are so fast because they start at level 80 due to the recruit a friend system where you can create a level 80 character of any race/class. And for fast leveling... grab some heirlooms and do a combination of instances of normal questing. No that doesn't work xD U can't RaF to level 80 monk it says so in F&Q. Recruit a friend on its own works though. Double xp to level 70 or 80 then power level beyond that to 90 i watched 3 guildies RAF their monks to 80 in a span of minutes Ya it is stupid quick. But u dont start level 80 technically like u wud do if u got resseructed xD
You can use the free levels from Recruit a Friend grant levels to 80, you can't Scroll of Resurrection a monk to 80 (which has nothing to do with Recruit a Friend) It's kinda stupid actually, that they'd [think AND act] disable one but not the other. Oh well, damage done.
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On September 27 2012 05:11 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:42 Jojo131 wrote:Ulduar hardmodes were fantastic because of how they were implemented into the encounters, like choosing not to kill any of Freya's guardians before the fight, racing through the gauntlet fast enough to reach Thorim before Sif leaves so that you have to fight both of them at the same time, fighting Yogg-Saron without any of the Keepers help, etc. Hell, even Mimiron and the "BIG RED BUTTON" was so silly it was actually cool to have as a trigger for hardmode. Definitely one of Blizzard's best works in terms of catering to casuals and creating content that was also fun for hardcore players. Nowadays you just flip a switch and BAM hardmode activated, doesn't feel as intuitive at all, which is why Ulduar was such a special raid Edit: on topic, MoP leveling has probably been the funnest leveling experience I've had in all my years of playing WoW, this is definitely a surprise because as a PvP person I never thought I'd end up praising the work they've done to make questing more interesting in terms of gameplay and story telling. Yea I think it's universally agreed at this point that Ulduar's Hard Modes were the best iterations of Hard Modes ever in the game. The problem is, more of a design thing. How do you make an interesting activation like that for EVERY single encounter now? Back in Ulduar, there were a couple bosses that didn't have a hard mode, and there likely wouldn't have been any interesting way of turning one on to begin with. Following the success of Hard Modes Blizzard just went and stream lined it, but killed the creative side of it that made the modes so immersive. /shrug. I miss Ulduar. It was a damn good raid.
Does that really matter all that much though? The encounters themselves were nothing amazing tbh, i feel the ICC fights were far better, Lich King normal and hard mode gave me some good old C'thun vibes(C'thun is like the best raid encounter ever) what i mean is - does it matter if you flipp a switch or if there is some lore justification behind making the encounter harder? Tbh i don't feel like it matters.
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On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are.
I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die"
There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember:
- buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid,
- classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role,
- raid class-stacking to the extreme,
- raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...)
- Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans,
- Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration),
- endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded.
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vanilla = wow emerges as superior mmorpg.
pvp is for rogues and 3m mages and only druid can be tauren in Molten Core :-).
tbc = raiding is awesome, pvp awesome, quest for the netherdrake, outland means horde and ally a lot closer. World bosses. Class choice is important, you are important, no matter what you pick better play good. Everybody has a main they love and work on everyday. Make a mistake in heroics or raids and everybody dies. Hunting pendulum of doom all day :D Holy shit could it be more cool ????
Guess not.
Wotlk: best arena weapon is from pve. top tier pve gear stronger than can be earned by pvp skill. Raiding is for everybody, only progress remains a guild option unless you have a big guild or a core in the pug group. Quests to find dalaran and for gold, buy motorbike for gold. Better roll a hybrid in this expansion, but dont take shammy.
Rep grind is laughable compared to tbc, but you gotta have it. Roll against everybody when an item drops. Everybody has main and 2-3 alts at least.
Cataclysm:
Underworld. Everybody has a heal now. Doesnt really matter what class you are, just push some buttons.
Pandaria?
Pandas.... sounds really cool.
I played vanilla for the coolness of a new game.
I played TBC for the cool new content, the beautiful raids and exciting pvp
I played wotlk because of TBC
I played cata because of TBC
Not gonna play panda!
Where art thou TBC? They had a working concept, i dont understand why ruin this ...
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On September 27 2012 05:50 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are. I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die" There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember: - buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid, - classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role, - raid class-stacking to the extreme, - raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...) - Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans, - Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration), - endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded.
Thanks for listing all the stuff that made raiding in vanilla and bc amazing. I didn't mind one bit to be pigeonholed into healing as a druid, and I loved the fact that each healer brought something completely unique to the table. I remember when hots stacking was implemented and to be honest it was a terrible addition as it dumbed down raid healing significantly. Even the buggy raid encounters was a nice feature as it kept hardcore guilds from progressing too fast compared to the more casual guilds.
I really don't understand how you could dislike trash mobs pre wotlk. With difficult, challenging and a seemingly endless amount of trash mobs came a far greater satisfaction when (finally) facing bosses.
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It's weird to me, Pandaria is the first Blizzard game I'm not buying. Ever. O_O
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On September 27 2012 06:05 Creem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:50 sylverfyre wrote:On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are. I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die" There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember: - buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid, - classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role, - raid class-stacking to the extreme, - raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...) - Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans, - Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration), - endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded. Thanks for listing all the stuff that made raiding in vanilla and bc amazing. I didn't mind one bit to be pigeonholed into healing as a druid, and I loved the fact that each healer brought something completely unique to the table. I remember when hots stacking was implemented and to be honest it was a terrible addition as it dumbed down raid healing significantly. Even the buggy raid encounters was a nice feature as it kept hardcore guilds from progressing too fast compared to the more casual guilds. I really don't understand how you could dislike trash mobs pre wotlk. With difficult, challenging and a seemingly endless amount of trash mobs came a far greater satisfaction when (finally) facing bosses.
I wholeheartedly agree.
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On September 27 2012 06:05 Creem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:50 sylverfyre wrote:On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are. I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die" There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember: - buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid, - classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role, - raid class-stacking to the extreme, - raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...) - Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans, - Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration), - endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded. Thanks for listing all the stuff that made raiding in vanilla and bc amazing. I didn't mind one bit to be pigeonholed into healing as a druid, and I loved the fact that each healer brought something completely unique to the table. I remember when hots stacking was implemented and to be honest it was a terrible addition as it dumbed down raid healing significantly. Even the buggy raid encounters was a nice feature as it kept hardcore guilds from progressing too fast compared to the more casual guilds. I really don't understand how you could dislike trash mobs pre wotlk. With difficult, challenging and a seemingly endless amount of trash mobs came a far greater satisfaction when (finally) facing bosses.
Only trash i got really, really, reaaalllyyy tired of was the MC trash. BWL, AQ and Naxx trash were all fine. MH and BT trash were also fine, MH a bit excessive at times albeit the entire raid felt so goddamn epic so i didn't mind.
And the only unaccesible part of naxx 1.0 was 4 horsemen and as a consequence sapph and KT. Everything else was killable by a "casual" raiding guild albeit Gluth and Thaddius iirc were quite the gearchecks. Damn i remember these days, so different. People spent WEEKS trying to figure Patchwerk out, how he worked since you couldn't see how hatefull strike worked. Even then it required near flawless execution and a tad of luck to get down. Then there was the meatshield that was 4 horsemen albeit mostly due to taunt being resistable. naxx 1.0 is probably the best raid instance overall but i will give the crown encounter to C'thun(whenever it didnt bug to hell). I dunno, feel like you cannot enter a raid encounter without knowing how to beat it these days where as in the old days people didn't release a video straight away to get some e-fame. Figuring out BWL, AQ and Naxx was tons of fun.
Also for those in the know, wtf is the "Big enemy" in pandaria? They must've run out of stuff to kill by now.
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On September 27 2012 06:35 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 06:05 Creem wrote:On September 27 2012 05:50 sylverfyre wrote:On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are. I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die" There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember: - buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid, - classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role, - raid class-stacking to the extreme, - raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...) - Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans, - Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration), - endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded. Thanks for listing all the stuff that made raiding in vanilla and bc amazing. I didn't mind one bit to be pigeonholed into healing as a druid, and I loved the fact that each healer brought something completely unique to the table. I remember when hots stacking was implemented and to be honest it was a terrible addition as it dumbed down raid healing significantly. Even the buggy raid encounters was a nice feature as it kept hardcore guilds from progressing too fast compared to the more casual guilds. I really don't understand how you could dislike trash mobs pre wotlk. With difficult, challenging and a seemingly endless amount of trash mobs came a far greater satisfaction when (finally) facing bosses. Only trash i got really, really, reaaalllyyy tired of was the MC trash. BWL, AQ and Naxx trash were all fine. MH and BT trash were also fine, MH a bit excessive at times albeit the entire raid felt so goddamn epic so i didn't mind. And the only unaccesible part of naxx 1.0 was 4 horsemen and as a consequence sapph and KT. Everything else was killable by a "casual" raiding guild albeit Gluth and Thaddius iirc were quite the gearchecks. Damn i remember these days, so different. People spent WEEKS trying to figure Patchwerk out, how he worked since you couldn't see how hatefull strike worked. Even then it required near flawless execution and a tad of luck to get down. Then there was the meatshield that was 4 horsemen albeit mostly due to taunt being resistable. naxx 1.0 is probably the best raid instance overall but i will give the crown encounter to C'thun(whenever it didnt bug to hell). I dunno, feel like you cannot enter a raid encounter without knowing how to beat it these days where as in the old days people didn't release a video straight away to get some e-fame. Figuring out BWL, AQ and Naxx was tons of fun. Also for those in the know, wtf is the "Big enemy" in pandaria? They must've run out of stuff to kill by now.
they have not run out of big enemies to fight, if you read the lore there are still quite a few they could throw at us and probably will, although with titan coming out and cata draining some subs i dunno if they will ever be a game where sargaras finally dies. as far as the big boss in pandaria i have heard rumors about garrosh going insane and taking over org or something along those lines, i mean he already was pretty insane in cata but as far as i know those are still just rumors
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after i didnt like D3 too much, this will be the very first blizzard product i will not own. I even have dirty diablo 3 money in my bnet account for purchases.
it feels like they lost some talents. Or maybe they all work for their secret game *hope*
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On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:ulduar was ok at parts Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC. The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss.
ROFL... omg I almost forgot the 5 min blessings during Molten Core. I remember those days. Alliance would whine that they had paladins that could only buff every 5 mins, while Horde had shamans that could throw down totems/windfury.
That had to be an internet meme... "DUDE I NEED KINGS"
Now everything is like 60 minute buffs, everyone has paladins/shamans etc.
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I refunded D3, don't want MoP, and won't be buying HOTS, let alone whatever D3 expansion they have planned. I've owned everything since Orcs & Humans I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever buy another Blizzard game.
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I'm very close to playing again and was just curious about class balance at the moment. Are there any clear cut best or worst choices for dps/tank/heals in PvE and PvP? I'm not a fotm roller but I'm also not ignorant enough to believe that all the classes have ever been balanced 
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On September 27 2012 06:44 Vessel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 06:35 unkkz wrote:On September 27 2012 06:05 Creem wrote:On September 27 2012 05:50 sylverfyre wrote:On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:On September 26 2012 20:56 beachbeachy wrote:On September 26 2012 00:33 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 25 2012 20:42 Redox wrote:On September 25 2012 20:24 yeint wrote:
[quote]
Blasphemy. Ulduar was better than any raid in BC.
The first time we pulled Algalon I had literal nerd chills. Ulduar most underrated raid in all of WoW. The hard modes were so well done. Ulduar is not underrated. It's usually rated as the best raid ever. Surely you haven't touched naxx 1.0 or sunwell. Ulduar was OKAY for how awful wotlk was. As a moderate to hardcore raider, ulduar pales in comparison to almost every raid in BC/Vanilla. lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss. Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man? No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed. And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the - Atmosphere
- unique way of hardmodes
- Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
- Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
- Algalon!
- Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
- It was big.
Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why(just a fast google) So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that. Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core. You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good. Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers. I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are. I dunno, I think Uld was pretty tough but also very fun for almost all serious gamers (but not necessarily TOP TIER ULTRA HARDCORE - and even for them, fights like Algalon and 1 / 0 lights kept it interesting for a while.) I don't think EVERY boss NEEDS a hard mode, but I think hard modes should also be more than just "it does more damage and if you stand in the fire you instantly die" There's a ton of nostalgia in this thread claiming that vanilla or BC was best. I remember: - buggy raid encounters for the first several weeks of nearly every new raid, - classes that couldn't do anything except one spec one role, - raid class-stacking to the extreme, - raid buff-stacking to the extreme (to the point of going into an instance to get a fire resist buff for your tank...) - Alliance > Horde because paladins > shamans, - Rejuvenation and Renew from different healers not stacking (couldn't even refresh someone else's duration), - endless trash - even in BC, BT might have been sorta ok for trash, but it still had a pretty significant amount. But anyone remember SSC with 45 minute respawn? How about Karazhan trash between Curator and Shade of Aran? If you weren't oneshotting like every single boss, trash respawn was somewhere between demoralizing and retarded. Thanks for listing all the stuff that made raiding in vanilla and bc amazing. I didn't mind one bit to be pigeonholed into healing as a druid, and I loved the fact that each healer brought something completely unique to the table. I remember when hots stacking was implemented and to be honest it was a terrible addition as it dumbed down raid healing significantly. Even the buggy raid encounters was a nice feature as it kept hardcore guilds from progressing too fast compared to the more casual guilds. I really don't understand how you could dislike trash mobs pre wotlk. With difficult, challenging and a seemingly endless amount of trash mobs came a far greater satisfaction when (finally) facing bosses. Only trash i got really, really, reaaalllyyy tired of was the MC trash. BWL, AQ and Naxx trash were all fine. MH and BT trash were also fine, MH a bit excessive at times albeit the entire raid felt so goddamn epic so i didn't mind. And the only unaccesible part of naxx 1.0 was 4 horsemen and as a consequence sapph and KT. Everything else was killable by a "casual" raiding guild albeit Gluth and Thaddius iirc were quite the gearchecks. Damn i remember these days, so different. People spent WEEKS trying to figure Patchwerk out, how he worked since you couldn't see how hatefull strike worked. Even then it required near flawless execution and a tad of luck to get down. Then there was the meatshield that was 4 horsemen albeit mostly due to taunt being resistable. naxx 1.0 is probably the best raid instance overall but i will give the crown encounter to C'thun(whenever it didnt bug to hell). I dunno, feel like you cannot enter a raid encounter without knowing how to beat it these days where as in the old days people didn't release a video straight away to get some e-fame. Figuring out BWL, AQ and Naxx was tons of fun. Also for those in the know, wtf is the "Big enemy" in pandaria? They must've run out of stuff to kill by now. they have not run out of big enemies to fight, if you read the lore there are still quite a few they could throw at us and probably will, although with titan coming out and cata draining some subs i dunno if they will ever be a game where sargaras finally dies. as far as the big boss in pandaria i have heard rumors about garrosh going insane and taking over org or something along those lines, i mean he already was pretty insane in cata but as far as i know those are still just rumors
The problem is to keep in accordance with players level increase they always have to "one up" every games endboss. KT > Illidan > Arthas > Deathwing. There is pretty much nothing left except for Sargeras that topples Deathwing in power. Garrosh? After fighting the lich king and the aspect of death who controls the world in a sense we fight Garrosh? A mere mortal orc? No that won't cut it. What im trying to say is they are running out of "one ups".
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So apparently RaF is not eligible in my country. sad face. Would someone kindly share a convenient leveling route for horde? From lv1-58 basically.
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Super pissed, I can't play the game longer then a few minutes before it crashes or freezes my pc and requires a hard reboot. Apparently there's issues with gtx 5xx series graphic cards. I'd ask for a refund but blizzard's return policy is to eat shit. Ugh, fuck this game.
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I was kind of expecting massive dissapointment after D3, SC2 and to the latter parts of Cata, but I was pleasantly suprised. Questing is much more fluid and fun, though everyone outgears the normal dungeons by miles so they are cakewalk (as most were usually), haven't got to try the new pvp maps yet though. I just hope the first raid tier can challenge Cata's first.
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EPT
