[wow] Mists of pandaria - Page 47

On September 26 2012 23:05 Velr wrote:
You did not exchange your T3 for Greens except when you were Tanking.

For DMG classes the DMG stats were still better than sgreen (and most blues) on the new max level (except for "perfect" Items with like raw +Shadow/Fire whatever DMG). I ran around with quite some BWL loot until Karazhan in TBC... Blues/Patterns were another story but the Greens had mainly just way more HP, the huge DPS-Stat increase only started when the new raid, faction and heroic loot came into play.

On September 26 2012 23:26 Irre wrote:


While I agree that Ulduar was a great raid (pre nerfs), I completely think you are shitting on BC and Vanilla wrongfully. Vashj was buggy for like Method...other than that it was a fantastic fight and SSC and TK were amazing instances(the bridge sequence so cool! :D). 40 mans had their downsides, but they also were pretty damn epic when you finally killed that boss or, just the feeling of doing something with 40 FREAKING PEOPLE! As far as doing more work for gear...well WoW was a real MMO back then and that's how things were, you had to do things to accomplish and receive rewards. The content however was actually good, heroics were cool and hard until you had great gear, and not everyone had sick purples and full sets so it was OK back then; having the items was all the more cool/rewarding. Roles were a little more restricted in Vanilla and BC for end game raiding, but so what? I really don't think that you should be saying raiding was better in Wrath and beyond because they got ONE SINGLE INSTANCE RIGHT, and you didnt have to pay to respec your character and classes were homogenized.

The whole "people say BC and Vanilla were better is just nostalgia" theory is absurd. What you can say is the MMO genre greatly changed with WotLK, and you prefer that way of game design to a traditional MMO style. The people who enjoyed BC/Vanilla more (myself included obv), I think valued what WoW originally did: they simplified the ultra grindy parts of an MMO like Everquest or Lineage or FF, watered down some of the more hardcore pvp aspects of other MMOs but still kept PVP alive, and made a beautiful immersive world, a revolutionary quest system in MMOs, great fluid combat, and a rich endgame content with an innovative raiding system. BC built upon that and only improved things. Wrath and beyond clearly took a different direction with its target audience, trying to expand upon the player base by targeting more casual players who don't necessarily enjoy MMO style games or who don't have the time to have the best things and progress naturally through the content. This direction, while some may enjoy it, clearly did not pay off in subscriptions as the numbers trailed off after that.

On September 26 2012 23:02 Loxley wrote:


lol nostalgia. No it doesn't pale in comparison. Black temple trash cleaning took forever, lady vasj was a seriously buggy encounter, Naxx1.0 wasn't touched by nearly anyone and if it was touched - people needed to first get the buff from hakkar for saphiron etc, you couldn't actually call naxx1.0 finely tuned.. Molten core days of doing 5min blessings on a 40min raid, once you've done your last blessing you could start again. Yeah the nostalgia. The design of TK (personal) was awful, random rooms with a random boss.
Do you recall the time in TBC when you did nothing but Heroics and Kara just to get a bit of gear. Again, and again. Wiping endlessly on heroic shadowlabs and when you finally got your item you still didn't have any decent gear to go beyond romeo & julia in kara. Remember the pre-LFG (not lfr) time where you spent a good time yelling in every channel for a healer/tank for a 5man?
No dual class times. Oh goody respeccing every time you tanked. And about tanking; In classic only warriors could tank. Forget other classes tanking. Priests healed.

And yes, we cleared TBC sunwell when hardly anyone did. And TBC still remains my favorite expansion, but to say ulduar pales in comparison with almost every other in vanilla/tbc is simply nostalgia. Ulduar was great, even old school raiders and most of the community really values the

• Atmosphere
  
• unique way of hardmodes
  
• Different mechanics for each boss (not just tank/spank)
  
• Progressing difficulty (Yogg 0 watchers anyone?)
  
• Algalon!
  
• Mimiron Hardmode (and a train to take you to it)
  
• It was big.
  

Poll from last february on mmo-champion. I won't say its the best (personal memory i love BT) but still, its a reflection.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1089203-Is-ulduar-really-the-best-raid-ever-made-by-Blizzard-and-if-yes-why
(just a fast google)

So if your personal opinion is that ulduar sucked in comparison to TBC/Vanilla, its just that. Personal, and probably with a big load of nostalgia. Fact is most of the people playing Wow think its one of the best raids to ever come out. More than enough polls/articles supporting that.
Personal preference is still BT->Kara->Ulduar->MH

On September 27 2012 03:50 beachbeachy wrote:


For a non-hard core gamer, ulduar would be a great instance, but i'm talking about people who were actually good at the game and invested time into the game to get results. The trash in black temple was negligible; we're not talking about molten core.

You talk about wiping endlessly on heroics. You must have been geared extremely poorly or you or your group just wasn't good. Lady vashj was buggy until they fixed her. Naxx was touched and finished by plenty of people, including me - the ones who, like i said, took the time and the effort to get good.

Here's some facts though - BC and Vanilla took that much more effort to accomplish something, and that made it worthwhile. Naxx and Sunwell are the most difficult instances to touch the game, and for a NON CASUAL GAMER, that's the most rewarding. The reason that poll has been voted so, is because the majority of mmo-champion browsers are casual gamers.

I should have clarified my initial post, because it all does come down to what you prefer or what kind of gamer you are.

On September 27 2012 04:01 Hubble wrote:
What is your definition of "hard content"? It's a fact that Alone in the Darkness took WAY more tries then all of Sunwell. It's a fact that Lich King Heroic was longer alive than every boss before him. Sunwell was a nice raid, but bleeding edge content is getting harder and harder. Almost all bosses in Naxx 1.0 were killed in the first ID. The Horsemen stood so long not because they were hard (okay, they were hard at that time) but because you needed 8 Tanks with the proper gear (4 pieces of T3 at least).

By what definition is Sunwell the hardest Raid of the game? There are plenty of bosses after Sunwell that took WAY more effort than M'uru in his very first version. Just look up the dates of the first kills in sunwell. All are within ONE week after the boss was accessible (yeah, there were gates in Sunwell). Compare that to Lich King Heroic, or One Light in the Darkness, or Ragnaros Heroic, or Nefarian Heroic (Cataclysm), or Al'Akir Heroic.

I'm sure that even Kael'Thas took more tries than M'uru.

Here are some facts:

Dates of Firstkills in Sunwell
http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_progression_(TBC)/SP

First 3 Bosses within 2 Days, than the progression was blocked by a gate. Gate opened on 8 April 2008, next kill was 10 April (2 Days!). Next gate on 29 April 2008, next Kill on 4 May 2008, last gate on 20 May 2008, Kil'Jaeden down on 25 May.

Let's compare to Ulduar:

All bosses were avaiable the very first ID, all hardmodes were avaiable (14 April 2009). Alone in the Darkness first kill was on 7 July 2009. So yeah, Ulduar was harder than Sunwell.

On September 27 2012 04:01 Hubble wrote:
What is your definition of "hard content"? It's a fact that Alone in the Darkness took WAY more tries then all of Sunwell. It's a fact that Lich King Heroic was longer alive than every boss before him. Sunwell was a nice raid, but bleeding edge content is getting harder and harder. Almost all bosses in Naxx 1.0 were killed in the first ID. The Horsemen stood so long not because they were hard (okay, they were hard at that time) but because you needed 8 Tanks with the proper gear (4 pieces of T3 at least).

By what definition is Sunwell the hardest Raid of the game? There are plenty of bosses after Sunwell that took WAY more effort than M'uru in his very first version. Just look up the dates of the first kills in sunwell. All are within ONE week after the boss was accessible (yeah, there were gates in Sunwell). Compare that to Lich King Heroic, or One Light in the Darkness, or Ragnaros Heroic, or Nefarian Heroic (Cataclysm), or Al'Akir Heroic.

I'm sure that even Kael'Thas took more tries than M'uru.

Here are some facts:

Dates of Firstkills in Sunwell
http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_progression_(TBC)/SP

First 3 Bosses within 2 Days, than the progression was blocked by a gate. Gate opened on 8 April 2008, next kill was 10 April (2 Days!). Next gate on 29 April 2008, next Kill on 4 May 2008, last gate on 20 May 2008, Kil'Jaeden down on 25 May.

Let's compare to Ulduar:

All bosses were avaiable the very first ID, all hardmodes were avaiable (14 April 2009). Alone in the Darkness first kill was on 7 July 2009. So yeah, Ulduar was harder than Sunwell.

On September 27 2012 04:14 SRBNikola wrote:


They were unlocking bosses in ICC weekly ofc it will take more time to kill him if you cannot even fight him...

I think and from my XP Alone in the Darkness was hardest in WotlK.

On September 27 2012 04:01 Hubble wrote:
What is your definition of "hard content"? It's a fact that Alone in the Darkness took WAY more tries then all of Sunwell. It's a fact that Lich King Heroic was longer alive than every boss before him. Sunwell was a nice raid, but bleeding edge content is getting harder and harder. Almost all bosses in Naxx 1.0 were killed in the first ID. The Horsemen stood so long not because they were hard (okay, they were hard at that time) but because you needed 8 Tanks with the proper gear (4 pieces of T3 at least).

By what definition is Sunwell the hardest Raid of the game? There are plenty of bosses after Sunwell that took WAY more effort than M'uru in his very first version. Just look up the dates of the first kills in sunwell. All are within ONE week after the boss was accessible (yeah, there were gates in Sunwell). Compare that to Lich King Heroic, or One Light in the Darkness, or Ragnaros Heroic, or Nefarian Heroic (Cataclysm), or Al'Akir Heroic.

I'm sure that even Kael'Thas took more tries than M'uru.

On September 27 2012 04:19 Hubble wrote:
The leveling is very fun. All (my) complaints about Cataclysm leveling were adressed (almost no phasing, more than one way to level through a zone, not much use of vehicel-combat-style quests).

And there is plenty of addition content to do. Pet fights (aka Pokemon) seems to be very much fun. Plenty of raidcontent. Heroic-5-mans are not hard anymore, but there are challenge modes to provide challenging 5-man-content. World Bosses are back. No flying up to level 90.

If you can affort it you should take a look.

On September 27 2012 04:22 Vessel wrote:


do the challenge mode dungeons offer better gear than heroics or is it purely for the extra difficulty?

On September 27 2012 04:26 Hubble wrote:


They don't provide better gear. And you can't outgear them because challenge modes are done in premade gear which is the same for everyone. The challenge is to get the best times in the instance. You get bronze, silver and gold medals and there is a ladder where you can compete to other groups.

Notice how the only lich king fights mentioned are ACHIEVEMENTS. I'm sure it took 300 days to kill the four horsemen without anyone dying, too bad it's not an achievement so it never gets mentioned. Using my analogy they don't mean anything at all. What you said regarding naxx being cleared on the first I.d is completely false. People clearly spent more time on BC and vanilla bosses, especially naxx.

On September 27 2012 04:46 qanik wrote:
I haven't been playing for years and I'm wondering how are people leveling so fast? I mean, there's already so many lv90 monks.. From what I heard, they did 1-80 in HOURS, how is that even possible? I played two hours and I'm lv12.
I really need some tips, leveling another char to 80 is going to be a real pain. btw I'm horde, panda monk.