|
|
On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank  in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again  also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3
People like you killed Wow for most others .
|
On November 28 2011 22:36 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 People like you killed Wow for most others .
LoL i wanted to answer the same...
But yeah, people like you just wanted to put zero effort into the game and blizz decided to make it way to easy for casuals!
|
On November 28 2011 22:36 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 People like you killed Wow for most others .
A vocal minority only feels like "most"...
|
On November 28 2011 22:47 oweia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:36 Velr wrote:On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 People like you killed Wow for most others . LoL i wanted to answer the same... But yeah, people like you just wanted to put zero effort into the game and blizz decided to make it way to easy for casuals!
I agree completely, Blizzard removed everything that made WoW actually fun in order to cater to hordes of people wanting a game where they can smash buttons mindlessly and collect gear.
|
WoW-PvE, aside from, "serious" raiding is about as challenging as Farmville or other Facebook games... Probably less.
|
On November 28 2011 23:29 Velr wrote:
WoW-PvE, aside from, "serious" raiding is about as challenging as Farmville or other Facebook games... Probably less.
So what? I suppose you think that's insulting in some way? The same could be said for the StarCraft single player or co-op vs ai... yet they are there for (some) people to enjoy.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3
I read this and felt it was a decent and honest summary of the last few years of WoW from a casual PoV (from someone who clearly isn't in a Raiding or probably even large guild), and I see 5+ posts bashing him for being a casual player? And with nothing more than a one line "Your wrong, and your ruining WoW" statement. Suddenly I'm glad WoW has gotten more casual and Elitist assholes like this have left. No where did he state or even hint that he wanted things handed to him, just that he doesn't care to put in long hours into grinding for stuff. You dissagree? Fine, explain why you do, just don't be lazy with the one line response (one sentence forum poster << casual WoW player).
I totally agree that WoW just takes up too much time when you play to raid. I started with WoLK so Cata has been my first expansion, but the hours that running LFG Heroics took the first month or two of Cata was painful to no end and I cant express how nice it is that Heroics can be completed in 20-30 min with an average group. Raiding is fun, but when it takes an hour to run a dungen to maybe get gear and a handful of points it can feel not worthwhile. The one thing I dont agree with is how when a new tier of raid is released the old ones become pretty inconsequential. I wasn't playing in BC days, but I suspect I would have appreciated that system far better to the current JP/VP system.
When I first heard about MoP my first thought was "Wow... they just aren't takeing themselves seriously anymore are they?" and I don't think they are, but that actually fits with the flavor of WoW pretty well considering the copious amounts of tounge-in-cheek humor. I'm slowly comeing around that maybe MoP wont be a huge joke expansion, but things like the HUGELY simplified talent tree and pokemon do have me raising an eyebrow (sometimes both of them) time will have to tell.
Someone else stated that the trailer for MoP was pretty lackluster and one of the main reasons that MoP is getting alot of bashing, and I agree. The trailers of past expansions have all been pretty dam epic and left a feeling that things were happening and change was coming, MoP trailer gives us none of that with just some asian themed scenery and pandas to look at.
|
On November 28 2011 22:36 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 People like you killed Wow for most others .
Why? If anything I would say the opposite. People that want to feel like they're godly elite players and spit on all the casuals ruins the community more than anything else. It's such a terrible attitude, and usually it just seems to be people whining about stuff that doesn't actually effect them. If you're clearing heroic raids when they're fresh and you feel that's too easy, that's totally fine. But being upset that more people get to raid, get epics, and see endgame stuff is pretty silly. It's an MMO, more than that it's WoW, it's trying to appeal to millions of people. You can't expect the game to be built just to make you feel like you're special because you're the only one with epics. That's not a game design that's going to appeal to a lot of people, and it's also not really a healthy way of thinking imo.
|
I expected people to claim it was people like me who killed WOW. But its not that I want everything handed to me I want to earn it as much as the next guy. Its just I can't put straight 4-5 hours at a time playing. Being able to que for a heroic and finish it all withing an hour 2 at max is wonderful. Dailies require anywhere from 30 min to 2 hours (depending on which ones your doing) I am willing to put in the work just in small increments.
And tbh when I first hear it was panda's as the next expansion i was like no way the devs are trolling us but then I saw what there plans were and i slowly got more excited. The panda's not too much but when i looked at the WOW wiki i found a ton of info about the panda's which made me feel like ooo so they are deep in lore. The monk class seems interesting (no basic melee attack!!!), Pokemon, i mean companion pet battles (awesome!!!), it got me more excited. Then looking at the new talent system I am quite intrigued since there will be no true best talent spec choose and each new talent brings a new awesome way to play my class!!!
So all in all I am really excited about this next expansion, maybe not the panda themselves, but I am excited about everything they are planning on bringing to the game.
|
A whole addon of Pandas is wierd and pretty trashy. There is so much more worthy content in the Warcraft universe like Kil'jaeden, Titans and Sargeras for example. Blizzard just focuses one the money, they actually want female subscriptions else a panda addon wouldnt make sense.
|
On November 29 2011 02:31 dormer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:36 Velr wrote:On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 People like you killed Wow for most others . Why? If anything I would say the opposite. People that want to feel like they're godly elite players and spit on all the casuals ruins the community more than anything else. It's such a terrible attitude, and usually it just seems to be people whining about stuff that doesn't actually effect them. If you're clearing heroic raids when they're fresh and you feel that's too easy, that's totally fine. But being upset that more people get to raid, get epics, and see endgame stuff is pretty silly. It's an MMO, more than that it's WoW, it's trying to appeal to millions of people. You can't expect the game to be built just to make you feel like you're special because you're the only one with epics. That's not a game design that's going to appeal to a lot of people, and it's also not really a healthy way of thinking imo. Yeah casuals like him being good for the game was why TBC was such a success. Oh wait...
In reality casuals like him destroy the community and with it the game. WoW's community died with the introduction of queues and nerfed dungeons. You could perfectly be a casual and do fine in TBC, hell I was one of them and I loved every single moment of it. Dumbed down content, free epics and fastfood-like dungeons destroy the very core of the game.
WoW needs to go back to the TBC model of progression, make attunements and keys account wide (alt problem solved), remove crossrealm dungeon finder, remove porting to dungeons (hey meeting stone long time no see!), don't nerf dungeons because bads can't complete them (remember that casual doesn't mean bad), get out content faster, more raids per tier, let 25 man be the premiere raiding mode again, implement Ulduar style hard modes, implement more max level questing areas ala Isle and Molten Front, make more normal 5 mans, reduce the size of them (to accomodate casuals), add a third difficulty mode for raids without implementing LFR, make leveling a learning process again, increase the difficulty of low level dungeons so they match a decent learning curve, etc. I could go on, but this would make WoW the best MMO out there. Content for everyone. Everyone's happy, game rewards effort again, people will know the guilds and people on their server again, community will rebuild itself, bads, jerks and people who expect rewards without effort will move on.
A whole addon of Pandas is wierd and pretty trashy. There is so much more worthy content in the Warcraft universe like Kil'jaeden, Titans and Sargeras for example. Blizzard just focuses one the money, they actually want female subscriptions else a panda addon wouldnt make sense. Yes, because females are going to play WoW because they can play as a panda! Stop being silly...
|
On November 29 2011 03:29 D4V3Z02 wrote:
A whole addon of Pandas is wierd and pretty trashy. There is so much more worthy content in the Warcraft universe like Kil'jaeden, Titans and Sargeras for example. Blizzard just focuses one the money, they actually want female subscriptions else a panda addon wouldnt make sense.
Gotta have stuff for more expansions. I'm sure those guys will make it in soon. I can't see wow going over level 100 so. Probably the 95 and 100 expansions will have Sargeras. I def will pick those bad boys up cause dayum.
WoW is a bit too casual now but I don't think it hurts the game. That's why heroic modes are there. My friend always bitches about how the game is so easy now but yet our guild only managed 1 boss in cata before we quit. Some people can still make super easy content hard
Also.. I like Pandas. Panda monk fo shooooooooooo!
|
What I hate the most since WOTLK was how Blizzard changed the interaction between skill and time. Back in vanilla and TBC, there was a smooth relationship between player skill and how fast they can go through content. There was also a pretty smooth relationship between difficulty and reward.
Dailies and valor points represent the worst of the grind. I'm glad they're getting rid of the valor point requirements for getting tier gear that they started during WOTLK during that terrible tournament patch. To me, that represented everything that was wrong in WOW lately. It basically told the skilled raiders that even if they were killing bosses much faster, they're getting their tier gear at roughly the same time as others who merely get their valor points with heroic dungeons.
Unless you're doing heroic raids, the game now is basically an unskilled, time-consuming grind. When some of the old-timers talk about earning stuff, they mean actually executing fights properly, not spending a token number of hours to complete something with virtually no chance of failure. I think that's what many of the so-called casual players fail to understand. It's the learning and the screwing up that takes the most time in raids. Guilds who know what they're doing only raid for 1-2 hours per week while waiting for the next content patch.
|
On November 29 2011 03:17 Skyling wrote:
I expected people to claim it was people like me who killed WOW. But its not that I want everything handed to me I want to earn it as much as the next guy. Its just I can't put straight 4-5 hours at a time playing. Being able to que for a heroic and finish it all withing an hour 2 at max is wonderful. Dailies require anywhere from 30 min to 2 hours (depending on which ones your doing) I am willing to put in the work just in small increments.
Obviously you, or even "the Casuals" didn't kill WoW, there are plenty of reasons it's not as shiny as it once was, like a world completely instanced through "press a button and queue to whatever you want with people you don't know and won't see ever again", dailies being forced down people throat without the option to grind or simply people outgrowing it.
This is very important and what follows below is just on the "casuals", I could go for pages about the other problems!
However, casuals did contribute, the mister that says above that someone isn't entitled to being one of the only ones with a certain gear just because he puts a lot of time into the game is the living proof. Of course he should have better items and seen more content than you, what's the point of putting time in the game else? What's the point of having gear being called epic if I can get one every day? Saying that you're disappointed because you don't gear after an hour (AN HOUR!) of raiding is also amusing. Freeloot begger incarned. Loot is something that allows you to see content, it's not an end in itself. I'm not saying pride in having gear doesn't exist though. You've got it all wrong with who think they're entitled to something : "heh, I want the salary and the car of someone that works twice as hard as me on the same job". Yeah, that totally makes sense!
Also, nice job deducing that someone likes to have better gear immediately wants to spit on casual scrubs. I'm pretty sure I never mocked someone just because he has worse gear than I do. But let's move on from that.
I was what you would call an hardcore player, I don't mind casuals as long as they learn, and that's exactly where the fail chain start. Most of the casuals don't learn, this is not linked to their nature of being casuals. Even in hardcore guilds, it's full of idiots, but you can maybe hope that sometimes they'll put enough amount of time to finally understand the fire is bad and will achieve "good enough" status to be carried along.
The casual, however, "doesn't have time" to learn, and thus stays bad. But he still feels entitled to seeing everything in the world and getting the same loot. And Blizzard agrees, which is silly, I'm sure a lot of people saw Sunwell, maybe months later (but does it matter?), but for me it was the greatest time by far, it was really nice to be one of the only ones to be able to deal with such bosses before the nerfs and expansion.
But blizzard agrees that everyone has to see everything RIGHT NOW and thus, instances get nerfed, you get idiotic things like "queueing as random" buffs, easier (mostly) isntances in a 10man version, retarded badges for everything, normal and heroics versions of the same instance (which is probably the moment this game lost it for me, killing one boss on first try to come back kill it a week later with him having 2 more hitpoints and a bigger mace is just not exciting at all, wiping on Vael for weeks and finally killing it was rewarding, trashing an heroic boss : "meh, w/e") etc.
The amount of crying about the difficulty in cataclysm is the perfect proof. I was leveling with some friends, and we cruised through the heroics finding them trivial compared to our first day of WotLK (30+ wipes on Hall of lightnings on the first day of wotlk is a forever memory), yet people asked for nerfs instantly, and obviously, it's not the hardcore players asking for nerfs. Same goes for cataclysm raids. People won't put time or skill to get rewards, they're rather whine loud enough.
here's your long post.
tldr since you don't have time for reading either (joking  ) : Casuals are not the problem, just the ones that feel entitled to the same loot and seeing all the game immediatly despite comon sense, and the ones that can't learn. Those two kinds sadly form a very important part of the casual player base, thus the assimilation between both. That part is responsible for some changes that did make the game less challenging and interesting, but obviously not for everything.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote:I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best. Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing. Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome. I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3
Not only "new" players think like that.
Wow has been around for seven years, I was here from the beginning (almost), so i can safely say that nostalgia about vanilla is bull****.
Remember "epic" fights at tarren mill? Sure were great. When the servers were not crashing because they couldnt handle 300 people in the same area at the same time.
Insane grinds? People really did find that interesting? Come on, farming fire resistant stuff, then nature resistant, then ice resistant and so on just to be able to survive a fight sure was great...
PvP? Enjoy your grind. What is the point in that? At least arena and ranked bg involve some kind of skill and they were not here back then.
PvE too easy? How many here managed to kill every fuc**** boss before the nerf kicked in? I bet it's almost the same percentage now with HM bosses.
6 hours long alterac and you win when the other side just /abs because they've got enough of it? woohoo.
So yes, the game is easier than before. I miss the old heroics where a skill less group had no chance to reach the 1st boss or the pvp at tyr's hand however how much of the difficulty was a question of time you put in the game rather than pure skill?
Plus there is a good thing about mid level purplz being available for regular players: that way you can see that a lot of people actually know how to play the game well, they just don't want or don't have the time to farm for hours (be it arena or raids) to get their stuff.
And how many people really did hardcore raiding from vanilla to now? How many had the courage to farm again a new tier each time a new came out? Close to none is my bet.
In the end I did raid a lot (every tier from vanilla to wotlk), pvp a lot , farmed most profession, have 6 85, with my three mains being the same since vanilla (I even deleted and grinded back my main warlock three fuc***** time, once during vanilla, bc and wotlk) until there is something called life that comes back to bite you in the ass. So now I have neither the time nor the will to farm for hours for a stuff that's soon going to be obsolete. My guild is the same than 5 years before, most of us have left and those who did not are not our raiders, they are our casuals. Most of the guildmates i still have left are my friends and I enjoy my dailies, searching for some stupid and useless stuff in a stupid and useless dungeon, doing achievements, bg arena or old raids with them.
So I guess you could call me a casual now. And I don't think I ruin the game to anyone, contrary to most hardcore raiders who came and left after 2-3 years, we casual are still here. Some of us have reached a four digits /played, I am quite glad I deleted several times my mains so I can't add up my /playeds because I know I would be one of them.
So things being easier than before? Yes and no. It's mostly less time consuming. It almost feels like a reward, after years and years of play, that I can still enjoy having enough stuff do to whatever I want and that without going through a 1365th scholomance to drop my pauldrons (which never dropped in the end).
/rant
On MoP
+ Show Spoiler + Before whinning about it, how about wait and see?
Talents tree being reduced to selecting your additional skills? why not. Everybody used optimized builds anyway, so what was the points in having a 41 points to spend in a tree when you knew where the points would be?
Plus some changes look nice (see warlock/priest spec changes)
And an asian looking country could be nice to see if it's well done.
It is good to see that Blizzard can still pull up a big "F*** YOU! WE'RE DOING WHATEVER WE WANT!!!", it's what made them the best video game makers ever so it would be a shame if they gave up on that.
After that, just have some faith, they did not came where they are by su***** at making video games.
|
On November 29 2011 03:17 Skyling wrote:
I expected people to claim it was people like me who killed WOW. But its not that I want everything handed to me I want to earn it as much as the next guy. Its just I can't put straight 4-5 hours at a time playing. Being able to que for a heroic and finish it all withing an hour 2 at max is wonderful. Dailies require anywhere from 30 min to 2 hours (depending on which ones your doing) I am willing to put in the work just in small increments.
I can probably play it 4-5 hours a night for raiding right now, but I just don't want to because 1) The game sucks, and 2) The community is dead. If you bring my old guildmates from Vanilla and start a new guild, I would even play the Pandaland. It has always been community and the guild you're in that made the game special, above all the content in the game.
Problem with casuals is that they've whined like spoiled children, becuase they feel like they're entitled to something even though they oon't work for it. OFCOURSE the guy who put in MORE time than you will have better stuff. That's the point of life itself. That is what makes the "stuff" valuable after all. If everyone can get epic gear every day like right now and in WOTLK, then there is no point of playing to get that gear and fun for us who enjoy to see their character's progression. You raid hours every night, get some gear, and voila, next patch, people who faceroll their keyboards through easymode heroics get the same gear with you. It's terrible. Another problem with casual mindset is that as long as you feed their greed, they don't care what you throw at them. A terrible patch like 3.2, and the joke they call an expansion, the Pandaland is the proof. Blizzard knows they don't need to excel, why should they? The only thing they need to do is to keep throwing easy gear and entitlement to the masses, and they can at least keep a solid 7million with that.
Vanilla WoW might have been a little too strict, but Burning Crusade especially were just the right thing. I had no time left to raid due to restarting from a break in BC, but I farmed my ass off for days for the Frozen Shadoweave Set, and then did the heroics (which were actually HARD back in BC) to have some fun in my own way. That was still character progression, and it was fun. The progression made sense, there were two 10mans for small guilds, and a plethora of 25man raids that were full of interesting environments, cool boss fights and tough challenges, all the way meeting old friends like Illidan, Vashj or Kael. It was epic, that was WoW for me. I wish I didn't have to quit WoW for the most of it, Vanilla was good but I envied the people raiding BC content so much.
Problem with WoW right now isn't just the gear and progression system. As a poster above me have pointed out, the whole "huge and open world" has been reduced to nothing but "click this button and spam your keyboard". People don't care for the community anymore. They can do almost everything alone, the game has become so asocial. People don't meet each other while playing anymore, because they can just queue for a dungeon or PvP to level up, if nothing else the quests are so damn easy that there is no way to group up anymore. I remember in Vanilla, there was a zone in The Hinterlands full of elite mobs, and you needed a full party to clear that place. I remember searching for an hour to get a group. But then, it took us a solid 2-3 hours and we cleared it, we got our quest items, our experience, and met 4 new people each. The fact that there are no elite quests keep people from interacting with each other and contribute to the asociality of the game.
Anywhere you go but the main cities (and that's some of them) is nothing but a ghost town. People stay in a city and spam their queues. There are so many 10man guilds that the number of 25man guilds that survived since WOTLK is around 25%. No one knows anyone anymore. In past there were 4-5 solid guilds in your realm. If you saw someone from guild X, you knew they were serious business. If you were in one of those guilds, people respected you because they knew what you did to get there. I remember when a world boss spawned and our guild went to kill it, a guild from our faction and another from the opposite faction waited patiently for us to try it like 5 times. They told us what to do. It was so cool to see that kind of interaction. If you try the same thing today, I guarantee you'll get ganked and the guild from your faction will pull the boss to wipe you in most cases. Because the game is full of teenagers who only care for teh purplez.
|
Why are people hating on Pandaren? The lore is interesting and WoW never took itself super seriously anyway.
I will say that Burning Crusade was not as perfectly tuned as people are saying. It still had too much of that Vanilla WOW tuning - massive grinding for consumables, huge rep grinds, buggy/overtuned encounters (vashj, a'lar, kael'thas, gruul on 1.0, m'uru 1.0), severely undertuned encounters (hyjal/black temple).
However, the encounters were very well designed and there we a lot of positives.
Right now the game is far and away too easy. The point about the game becoming asocial is a very good one, but I don't think that the cross server dungeon queue should be removed. Heroic modes are actually difficult, so I do think they are reaching a balance between showing everyone the content and making it actually challenging.
|
On December 01 2011 13:30 Bigtony wrote:
Why are people hating on Pandaren? The lore is interesting and WoW never took itself super seriously anyway.
I hate this expansion with a deep and burning passion, but he is right. The people saying Pandaren are kiddy or whatever are fooling themselves. WoW has always had that comic-book esque style to it and that childish style to it. I mean, think about it. We got cows, little gnomes, tree elves, ALIIIIIUUUUNNNS FROM SPACE!1!!!!, demons, and Murlocs. The addition of this really isn't that bad in terms of "immaturity" or whatever. I can rant all day of how implementing what was initially an easter egg and a joke is kind of stupid, but I'll avoid that.
Also, I think I know the point of this expansion. I'll be stealing a bit from alexrediculous on youtube with this, but yeah. It's the Dragonball Z effect. If every major enemy in every expansion is the biggest, most strong person in the entire universe -- at what point does it just become completely ridiculous and stupid? First we had Illidan, and I don't really remember the lore behind Illidan but he was a huge dick. Then we had Archimonde who fucked up the tree. Then we had Sargeras, and, well, he's Sargeras. We beat a fucking Titan. Then we killed the Lich King, who logically should have killed everyone on Azeroth like four years ago, and then we are going to kill that dragon guy whose name I don't fucking know. (oh boy, here comes "there must always be an Earth-lava-chained-up-person I SHALL SACRIFICE MYSELF")
The point I'm making is, it's time for Blizzard to scale back down. It's time to stop having huge "badass" enemies that are all the strongest in the universe and just have...what we have here. Expanding on the (admittedly now shit) lore and just taking a breather, a bit of a break from all the commotion going around.
|
On November 28 2011 23:34 jnc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 23:29 Velr wrote:
WoW-PvE, aside from, "serious" raiding is about as challenging as Farmville or other Facebook games... Probably less. So what? I suppose you think that's insulting in some way? The same could be said for the StarCraft single player or co-op vs ai... yet they are there for (some) people to enjoy.
That is blatantly false. 99.99% of anyones experience is multiplayer.
|
On December 01 2011 13:39 Happylime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 23:34 jnc wrote:On November 28 2011 23:29 Velr wrote:
WoW-PvE, aside from, "serious" raiding is about as challenging as Farmville or other Facebook games... Probably less. So what? I suppose you think that's insulting in some way? The same could be said for the StarCraft single player or co-op vs ai... yet they are there for (some) people to enjoy. That is blatantly false. 99.99% of anyones experience is multiplayer.
As right as you probably are, please don't just pull random statistics out of your ass. If anything it makes your point even less legitimate. Phrases such as "almost all" or "most" or "pretty much everyone" or any variation your creative mind can think of are in our language for a reason. Use them instead of BS'ing numbers =/
I get what you're trying to say, it's just kind of silly, tbh.
/end rant
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
