EPT[wow] Mists of pandaria - Page 17
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The NA-based TL WoW guild has been set: it is being formed on Cenarius as alliance. Talk to farvacola if you want more info! Add yourself to the player list! Use this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434775 for Warlord of Draenor discussion please! | ||
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Anub1s
Bulgaria17 Posts
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Omsomsoms
Croatia194 Posts
Vanilla was amazing in that respect, and BC improved on it. I'll never forget that simply epic feeling I had when I first crossed the dark portal, I remember simply being in awe and saying "oh shit oh shit oh shit". Wrath and Northrend were sort of meh in that aspect until you got to Icecrown, I thought that was really well-done. Cata, even though it was about the destruction of the world as we know it really didn't give me that feeling, it just felt like "oh well I've done this area, time to progress linearly to the next area, and when I'm done I'll queue for a heroic, yay". I've argued with friends a little about this, but this is really what made me decide to quite WoW. | ||
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oHInsane
France727 Posts
That said, I think wow players tend to think the best era is always behind them. In my humble opinion, it's not a matter of the quality itself of an expansion or another, it's just that like any MMO, when you discover it for the first time, there's just so much things to absorb that the game can obsess you for many months ! Once you have explored everything (or close to), you just feel bored, but it's the nature of the game. I was a rookie during vanilla and i enjoyed TBC the most. Not because it was the best expansion (after all it's highly subjective), but because it was the expansion that brought me into raiding, doing attunments, caring about PvP , optimizing my char and such, and it was the time i realized that hitting level max was just the beginning. It was a fresh experience for me that no other expansions will replace. Nowadays, I can't even play this game more than 1 hour a week and i have 300ish days played on my main, for me this game is over, there's nothing in this game that will bring me back my original excitement cause I have already done and discovered everything I needed to (high level raiding, pvping, quests, learning the lore etc...). And imo, the graphics of the game hit their limits which don't help bringing back the excitement as well. The WoW cycle might have come to an end for me, but for the people who has never played it (are they real ?? j/k), it's sure a great experience, for the orther "veterans", it might fall a little bit short. | ||
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Spessi
304 Posts
To me it was the drastic change in model for thier game. In vanilla and bc content was limited to people who were bad. It was also limited to people that demanded to stay with thier guild of friends and it was limited to people with short time schedules and limited to a lot of other people. Im not going to judge whether it was good or bad for the game. However. That limit let a lot of things happen that can't anymore. You can breeze through any content you want. And as soon as new content comes out that content is immediately dated for the ENTIRE player base. Beyond even that, there's no natural difficulty scale. As a healer I could say there were three components to healing (stay with me): the expected damage that went out, your healing (your mana management + your throughput), and how much retard damage went out. With the tiered raiding system that existed until lich king came out raiders controlled the retard damage that went out by limiting WHO could go to what tier. If you were too dumb to get past the flames in shade of aran people didn't worry about you in black temple. you werent going to be in black temple unless you'd progressed past that individually and as a guild. if you couldnt...you'd still be doing a lesser tier (or for any of the other reasons that aren't relevant for this conversation). If you as a healer wanted simpler content you could go down. If you wanted harder and were good you could go up. In Wrath and Cata that went out the window and retard damage, instead of progressively going DOWN (because your raid was collectively more intelligent about needing to minimize retard damage) it just stayed the same. It did kind of whatever your raid group felt like that night or who you brought, and anyone could come to anything (which you can argue guilds and pugs COULD have limited but...you really cant). And blizzard therefore, to keep raiding how it was, couldnt actually really affect that retard-damage-lever much, because the players actual control it. They could put the potential there, but all it really did was make things hard as shit for healers, or make raids seem "impossible" for bad players and that was "unfair". But as a healer specifically it just made healing a mess. And then blizzard took the other two controls, "healing" and "actual damage" and has been fiddling around with them since, trying to make the raiding make sense. The problem is you really can't when you take that middle lever and try to force it one way or another, because again, blizzard can't really control it, they can only try. And again, as a healer, it just makes your job hell, or boring. What it really does is make your job hell then boring then hell then easy then boring then easy then boring...and you get to a point where you're just like, "fuck it, i wonder what this fight will be like?" Then you go to a dps or a tank and realize...o my god the rest of the mechanics have been designed the same way. Because the bar collectively was just lowered for the sake of everyone, for good or bad. And then you get the other problem that, since you have everyone doing everything, all content gets stale a lot faster for the majority. So content needs to come out much faster if you're going to follow this model. But it hasn't. Then you have players spending a solid YEAR in icecrown. You have an expansion where you promise many small raids and tiers very fast, and...your first major patch takes more time than any other first content patch after an expo in the history of your game, and you actually don't even include a raid in it, let alone the 'many small raids'. Then your next patch brings one medium sized raid, again, instead of what you initially said. And it's going to get old fast so no one cares. And theres no measure of skill so no one cares. and the fights are up and down and up and down in terms of difficulty because this tier they decided NO RETARD DAMAGE POSSIBLE and just made it "not fun" for too many people, and no one really really cares about the content at all. But the alternative is...going back to the other model and risking a lot of people leaving because they're being told "you aren't good enough for this"? jI don't know. But I don't care at all anymore. I played WoW to play with my friends and talk with them around the world. And I get to still outside of wow, so...i really dont care. It was a game I played while I was growing up and it was a good game for a while. But I think they've put themselves in a terrible position trying to keep too many people happy and it's just dropping shit all over the place. At the same time I know I could go in right now, play it like a single player game, ignore EVERYTHING and immerse myself in a lot of pretty decent side stories. nostalgia might let me complain about how it's all linear and in little boxes from zone to zone and how lazy it was to make you go from new to....outland, but...ignoring that and just playing it...it's still a pretty decent game. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On November 21 2011 22:23 zalz wrote: People pronouncing Wotlk to be the golden age of WoW. What a shock. Once mists of pandaria is out it's going to be shit and cataclysm will be the golden age of WoW. People hated TBC, people hated Wotlk, people hate Cata, and people will eventually always end up loving them once the next expansion is out. I'm sorry but this excuse could be true for some people, but in general I believe it's nonsense to keep bringing up that argument every time someone brings up their discontent with the WoW. I hated most of WOTLK, but still, you can't deny it was the peak. That's why it was the Golden Age. Ever since patch 3.2, that ridiculous circus content patch, it's going downhill. WOTLK wasn't good except few things, but it still felt like WoW we used to like. The panda expansion is going to take all of that away. 6 talents? Pokemon in WoW? Pandas on a Chinese land who like Kung Fu? Seriously, is this the best they can come up with? It's blatantly obvious that they know WoW is going downhill (they lost a million subs since Cata launched), so they want more of the China market by creating a Chinese themed expansion with an emphasis on casual play. Talents are dumbed down, dungeons are dumbed down, people will play pokemon in Orgrimmar and there will be pandas in Undercity. The same city where Sylvanas and hundreds of Undead live. It's just not even funny. Blizzard is tearing the game apart and making a ridicule of themselves. The game has changed TOO much in 7 years. It doesn't feel like WoW anymore, it's more like one of those Facebook games. | ||
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Order
Lithuania231 Posts
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
WOTLK was also really well designed. Content was out for far too long however, as many people have mentioned. I've wanted to see Pandaren for a while. WOW never took itself very seriously and there's been way too much doom and gloom and bullshit. | ||
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Skyling
United States76 Posts
I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank  in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best.Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing.Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again  also Molten front dailies are awesome.I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 | ||
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askTeivospy
1525 Posts
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Zwerver
Netherlands104 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 28 2011 13:36 Zwerver wrote: Wtf, why is everyone so negative, Pandaren is fucking hilarious! If i wasn't done with playing mmo's, this would actually bring me back to WoW. It gives the impression that the devs don't take the game as seriously as hardcore players would like to take it. When they start throwing in the towel and rely on gimmicks (pokemon) and poorly designed revamps (talents), especially with top notch competition coming out like GW2, Tera, LF, etc., it makes people go "fuck it, not worth the effort." | ||
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holdthephone
United States523 Posts
I'll always respect WoW for what it did with PvE. Quest lines were interesting, writing was good, the world was amazing and felt alive, and the interface was so slick. Right now it's just too much and has lost a lot of charm. After trying the Star Wars beta, I don't think Bioware is anywhere near where WoW was with it's early game progression, but it looks really nice and it's Star Wars, so I feel a lot of people will jump ship. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
Also, imo they should go back to the TBC style of raiding progression. I never played vanilla, hardly scratched TBC, played a lot of WotLK, and did the start of the Cata raids (after I cleared BWD and Cho'gall, I quit)...but from what I've read about the perks of each expansion, it seems to me that TBC is the best. You actually had to progress through the raids giving a better sense of accomplishment. In WotLK, you didn't have to even do the lower tier raids once the next patch came out...(painfully easy) heroics would just gear you up for the next tier. Sure, TBC did have that annoying rep grind to get into raiding, but with the new cross server LFG system and a increase to rep gain, it wouldn't be bad. It shouldn't be as bad for casuals either if they'd stick with the 10-man & 25-man for every raid too. But make the 25-man gear better...Cata basically made 25-mans extinct. | ||
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holdthephone
United States523 Posts
Perfect balance of casual and hardcore play IMO. | ||
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Vortok
United States830 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:22 Spessi wrote: You have an expansion where you promise many small raids and tiers very fast, and...your first major patch takes more time than any other first content patch after an expo in the history of your game, and you actually don't even include a raid in it, let alone the 'many small raids'. Then your next patch brings one medium sized raid, again, instead of what you initially said. I'm pretty sure the number of heroics available has decreased with each expansion launch. Something like 8 for MoP + some redone Scarlet Monastery instances? BC had something like 14+ at launch, didn't it? Bit of nostalgia glasses as BC was when I started playing, but I enjoyed running heroics in BC (even if it was usually like.. Slave Pens + 1 or 2 other easy ones and only occasionally doing other stuff because many people didn't wanna do the longer/harder heroics) far more than the Cata ones (were interesting initially, and then the nerfs came and CC stopped again). Wrath was interesting in the first few weeks, before it became a massive "aoe everything in sight" contest. I never really ran out of stuff to do in Wrath somehow, whereas I got bored at cap in Cata alarmingly fast. Before the LFG tool I actually had a friend's list from running 5 mans. Sometimes I ran raids with them, and occasionally old content for shits and giggles, and often could grab someone to fill out a 5 man (did a ton of those in BC as they didn't get old for me). Even started a guild (too small to do anything, sadly) to raid after tanking some Heroics in Wrath (pre-lfg tool) with a fresh Warrior tank. They initially thought my gear wasn't good enough at the beginning of the instance. Was on their friend list at the end of it. I don't think I added even 3 people to my friends list in the 6 or so months I played Cata. I got some amazing people in my group using the tool, but it didn't matter because they were on a different server and I'd never see them again once we broke party. I like some of the advancements WoW made in removing grind here and there, but some of the trade offs simply weren't worth it for me. As I enjoy questing, I'm sure I'd enjoy the 85-90 experience if I were to get MoP... but after that, hard to say. Not sure I'm willing to pay the price of admission with numerous other options available that would feel fresher. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37065 Posts
On November 22 2011 01:11 Anub1s wrote: Screw WoW and get ready for Diablo 3 ;] Screw WoW and get ready for DotA 2 ;] | ||
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sandg
Australia123 Posts
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soullogik
United States1171 Posts
so fn sad. what a joke this game has become | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On November 28 2011 12:32 Skyling wrote: I have played since mid vanilla WOW and I was never in that hardcore raiding guild. I have issues paying attention for long amounts of time and i hate doing long raids and dungeons. In cata the sheer amount of things to do at end game is more amazing then any other expansion so far. I can choose to do dailies, random heroics, pvp, go out and find something cool. Stand out in the world and just look around and enjoy it, talk with guildies, talk in trade chat, or in the next patch there will be the darkmoon faire and looking for raids!!!! This is awesome for us casual players. If you look at end game content in the old parts of wow: Vanilla you could either grind out in pvp doing massive amounts of it or find 19 or 39 other people to do raids with. I did the pvp grind and quit it after i went on vacation for a week and lost a whole pvp rank in BC you could play 10 arena and get epic gear (what i did) or you could grind thru regs to get your rep up then go thru heroics so you can start raiding in actual raids way too many steps for us casuals. But at least they started having dailies, and the Isle of Quel'dantis (omg amazing) which made me a happy camper I could actually spend my time doing stuff for actual rewards that didn't involve me looking for anther group of people to help me do stuff. I thought this right here was the best.Then wrath came out. In wrath you could do dailies or do raids or do heroics. They also weren't as tough to get into as BC but i hated sitting in trade looking for people to do heroics PVP was alot harder to get gear in so i couldn't get my epic gear there. But then i had a lvl 80 around the time LFG came out and i was just geared enough for it (woot!!) so i could run my heroic once a day and get epic gear so i could finally join a pug raid and see end game content!!! That was amazing.Then cata came out and at the start I could do dailies to advance myself or do random dungeons and it just keep getting better. I am expecting with the gear reset in the next patch I will be able to get awesome gear that can then get me into looking for raid and i can enjoy the experience of raid content again also Molten front dailies are awesome.I am sure most elitist will call me a casual player but I am and I don't care. I am happy the game is more available to me now then ever before. No more crazy grinds, interesting fight mechanics, and in MOP i am sure i will be enjoying even more lore in an Asian setting with my brand new undead monk <3 So basically you don't want to expend any effort to get good items and advance in the game. That's all you had to say really. There is a large difference between a casual player that wants to put effort into it, and someone who wants to get everything for no work at all. I know plenty of casual players that have put quite a few hours into WoW...just over a longer period of time. They still advanced and such but just at a slower rate. Judging by your post you just wanted stuff handed to you because you have "issues paying attention." | ||
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