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On June 20 2014 03:43 Fencar wrote:
Is there any merit to buying a UMP-45 or other SMG/Shotgun? Afaik you buy pistols on save rounds, and on buy rounds you may as well buy an M4 or an AK right?
Coming from a naab like me it's surely a bad advice but i buy XM1014 on Dust2 CT side when i want to take short. I just put myself in the stairs and wait and when you come running...SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER ! (then i die because i can't aim even with that).
I like playing shotgun. Got my first full team with it a few weeks ago. The last kill was magical since the guy had an AWP :=) But i'm bad so... my opponents are too 
I'm sure shotgun can be really good in some situation on some map but really situational. Am i right ? Or am i talkking bullshit ?
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shotties can be great if you can ensure all fights are short to medium range.
you get into a situation when you play serioyusly of only ecoing doign full buys and then you can rapidly get to the poitn where you dont use any weapons but the main 4-6 or so.
However many other guns are v v strong in specific situations - especially if your aim is not 100%. The shotties in css were accurate for quite a long range as their spread was small ... dunno about csgo.
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Nova is legit choice for eco too if you few pistol kills and are not going for awp
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I like playing shotguns on office. it's just "holla holla get dolla". But usually on eco rounds i go mac 10 as T or bizon as CT, unless i'm playing with guys who are MG or higher so i buy properly and play patiently.
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I prefer the p250 for eco rounds. Way more reliable.
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On June 20 2014 19:31 Zavior wrote:
Nova is legit choice for eco too if you few pistol kills and are not going for awp
Nova shoot too slow for those like me that can't OS people.
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I only really buy a shotgun if my team is ecoing and I have way more money than them (If im doing well or something), say around 8-9k, and I can't buy for every one of them. Then i'll usually buy a nova as T or a mag-7 as CT. Other than that, I always eco with a cz or p250 if im above 2k5. I never buy any SMGs, as I prefer to buy rifles even on anti-eco rounds, because it could be dangerous if they force buy (armor + p250/cz, or third round with bomb plant) and you can always keep the rifle if you don't die with it, even after the third round.
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On June 20 2014 22:01 Roggay wrote:
I only really buy a shotgun if my team is ecoing and I have way more money than them (If im doing well or something), say around 8-9k, and I can't buy for every one of them. Then i'll usually buy a nova as T or a mag-7 as CT. Other than that, I always eco with a cz or p250 if im above 2k5. I never buy any SMGs, as I prefer to buy rifles even on anti-eco rounds, because it could be dangerous if they force buy (armor + p250/cz, or third round with bomb plant) and you can always keep the rifle if you don't die with it, even after the third round.
if you die on an anti eco with your rifle :
1) you give a rifle to the opposing team (more chance to lose the round)
2) even if you killed people you won little money
3) you'll have low money for the following rounds since you spent a lot and die. You could even be unable to buy kev/nades on the 4rd round while winning the first 3 if you died on round 2/3......
Get a Bizon. :-p Goal is to get and keep as much money as you can while winning that particular round.
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On June 20 2014 22:26 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 22:01 Roggay wrote:
I only really buy a shotgun if my team is ecoing and I have way more money than them (If im doing well or something), say around 8-9k, and I can't buy for every one of them. Then i'll usually buy a nova as T or a mag-7 as CT. Other than that, I always eco with a cz or p250 if im above 2k5. I never buy any SMGs, as I prefer to buy rifles even on anti-eco rounds, because it could be dangerous if they force buy (armor + p250/cz, or third round with bomb plant) and you can always keep the rifle if you don't die with it, even after the third round. if you die on an anti eco with your rifle : 1) you give a rifle to the opposing team (more chance to lose the round) 2) even if you killed people you won little money 3) you'll have low money for the following rounds since you spent a lot and die. You could even be unable to buy kev/nades on the 4rd round while winning the first 3 if you died on round 2/3...... Get a Bizon. :-p Goal is to get and keep as much money as you can while winning that particular round.
Sure, but you just disregarded every other argument in favor of buying a rifle. Mainly :
1) you are more likely to win the round if you play it slow with rifle, counting the fact that the other team can force buy (especially true at higher levels tbh)
2) you make less money, but you save more money
3) i prefer playing it slow with real weapons, than just rush them with smgs, and potentially give them a huge close-range advantage with their cz.
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I grabbed a bizon from a dead teammate and flanked an enemy, shooting him a lot. He turned and shot me. I hit 8 times and lit him for 91, as he had armor. My pistol would have been more effective.
Never using that gun again.
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Canada4481 Posts
If you die twice on anti eco rounds when you have a rifle and they have only pistols, something's wrong. You're either going alone too much, getting into fights where you're outnumbered, or your team isn't doing anti eco's properly.
If you die on both rounds 2 and 3, even if you bought smgs, you'll still be poor. If I die on round 2, for round 3, I'll either p250 + armor and nades, or pick up an smg from a teammate who's upgrading.
If you've died twice but your team wins, you can also ask for a drop. If no one on your team can afford a drop because they've also died once during the two eco rounds, you guy's are screwed if you're giving away so many kills on just ecos.
Depending on the skill level, bizon will do jack shit for damage if people buy p250/cz72+head armor and know how to aim. You die, contribute to a lost anti-eco for your team, and you end up saving for the next couple rounds.
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In low level games people buy rifles without armor on anti eco after pistols. Now that's the only thing you don't ever do on anti eco. NEVER skip armor
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I made a quick video again, this time explaining how to set up a good practice workout against bots in deathmatch mode.
As always, I'm not sure if this helps anybody - maybe it does. When I researched this, all I could find where zip-archives with hundreds of configs in them, my approach is more compact and very simple.
Let me know if there's anything wrong in the video etc., or if you'd rather I not post that stuff here. Feel free to also tell me if you did find it a bit helpful! ^_^
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What the hell Nihil... post your video they are really really informative.
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On June 20 2014 22:40 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 22:26 Nouar wrote:On June 20 2014 22:01 Roggay wrote:
I only really buy a shotgun if my team is ecoing and I have way more money than them (If im doing well or something), say around 8-9k, and I can't buy for every one of them. Then i'll usually buy a nova as T or a mag-7 as CT. Other than that, I always eco with a cz or p250 if im above 2k5. I never buy any SMGs, as I prefer to buy rifles even on anti-eco rounds, because it could be dangerous if they force buy (armor + p250/cz, or third round with bomb plant) and you can always keep the rifle if you don't die with it, even after the third round. if you die on an anti eco with your rifle : 1) you give a rifle to the opposing team (more chance to lose the round) 2) even if you killed people you won little money 3) you'll have low money for the following rounds since you spent a lot and die. You could even be unable to buy kev/nades on the 4rd round while winning the first 3 if you died on round 2/3...... Get a Bizon. :-p Goal is to get and keep as much money as you can while winning that particular round. Sure, but you just disregarded every other argument in favor of buying a rifle. Mainly : 1) you are more likely to win the round if you play it slow with rifle, counting the fact that the other team can force buy (especially true at higher levels tbh) 2) you make less money, but you save more money 3) i prefer playing it slow with real weapons, than just rush them with smgs, and potentially give them a huge close-range advantage with their cz.
sure, everything is situational, buying an SMG 3rd round when they planted the bomb first two for example is bullshit. But you said you NEVER buy SMGs... which is, sorry for saying that, idiot. Everything depends on the situation. Nobody asked you to rush with it, but in CT, dinking rushing T from medium distance/in a bombsite with SMG is easy while defending with the 20 or 25 bullets or a m4a1/famas is difficult, or youre so far that they can get in the bombsite and plant and get money (outside B/D2).
Everything depends on the situation, you may buy rifles when youre supporting from the backlines or when you get a specific feeling, but never using SMG "just because", while ignoring their many advantages, is a shame.
about that "huge close range advantage with cz", i guess you're speaking about T side : with 12 bullets, he's not gonna go far against 2/3 T rushing him. So even if you lose a weapon, he should get 1 kill at most and not be able to fetch the weapon.
About the "8 bullets and he didnt die, never using Bizon again", well hmmmm do headshots ? xD It's main advantage is a really low price, 62 bullets, you can spray forever when T are rushing you, and you can run and shoot while still being relatively accurate at close/medium range, which makes you hard to hit with a gun, while defending CTs with guns lower their heads letting you and your friends go in. It has too many advantages to "never use it again". Situational. You have to learn when it's a good idea and when it's probably a bad one.
100% agree with Qbek.
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On June 20 2014 22:41 Fencar wrote:
I grabbed a bizon from a dead teammate and flanked an enemy, shooting him a lot. He turned and shot me. I hit 8 times and lit him for 91, as he had armor. My pistol would have been more effective.
Never using that gun again.
Bizon is only really good for anti-eco no armour rounds. That's what makes it such a nice 2nd round buy if you won pistols. Even if you lose it it won't be as impactful as if you lost a rifle since your teammates should have head armour.
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On June 20 2014 23:14 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 22:40 Roggay wrote:On June 20 2014 22:26 Nouar wrote:On June 20 2014 22:01 Roggay wrote:
I only really buy a shotgun if my team is ecoing and I have way more money than them (If im doing well or something), say around 8-9k, and I can't buy for every one of them. Then i'll usually buy a nova as T or a mag-7 as CT. Other than that, I always eco with a cz or p250 if im above 2k5. I never buy any SMGs, as I prefer to buy rifles even on anti-eco rounds, because it could be dangerous if they force buy (armor + p250/cz, or third round with bomb plant) and you can always keep the rifle if you don't die with it, even after the third round. if you die on an anti eco with your rifle : 1) you give a rifle to the opposing team (more chance to lose the round) 2) even if you killed people you won little money 3) you'll have low money for the following rounds since you spent a lot and die. You could even be unable to buy kev/nades on the 4rd round while winning the first 3 if you died on round 2/3...... Get a Bizon. :-p Goal is to get and keep as much money as you can while winning that particular round. Sure, but you just disregarded every other argument in favor of buying a rifle. Mainly : 1) you are more likely to win the round if you play it slow with rifle, counting the fact that the other team can force buy (especially true at higher levels tbh) 2) you make less money, but you save more money 3) i prefer playing it slow with real weapons, than just rush them with smgs, and potentially give them a huge close-range advantage with their cz. sure, everything is situational, buying an SMG 3rd round when they planted the bomb first two for example is bullshit. But you said you NEVER buy SMGs... which is, sorry for saying that, idiot. Everything depends on the situation. Nobody asked you to rush with it, but in CT, dinking rushing T from medium distance/in a bombsite with SMG is easy while defending with the 20 or 25 bullets or a m4a1/famas is difficult, or youre so far that they can get in the bombsite and plant and get money (outside B/D2). Everything depends on the situation, you may buy rifles when youre supporting from the backlines or when you get a specific feeling, but never using SMG "just because", while ignoring their many advantages, is a shame. about that "huge close range advantage with cz", i guess you're speaking about T side : with 12 bullets, he's not gonna go far against 2/3 T rushing him. So even if you lose a weapon, he should get 1 kill at most and not be able to fetch the weapon. About the "8 bullets and he didnt die, never using Bizon again", well hmmmm do headshots ? xD It's main advantage is a really low price, 62 bullets, you can spray forever when T are rushing you, and you can run and shoot while still being relatively accurate at close/medium range, which makes you hard to hit with a gun, while defending CTs with guns lower their heads letting you and your friends go in. It has too many advantages to "never use it again". Situational. You have to learn when it's a good idea and when it's probably a bad one. 100% agree with Qbek.
Oh, im not saying that they don't have advantages. But there is a good reason why pros avoid buying smgs-only, and when they do, there have been a lot of cases where they failed pretty bad.
And its a personnal choice, I like the famas, a bit less the galil. I think the optimal way to buy would be something like 3-4 rifle and 1-2 smgs, but then again yes it is situational. I'd rather have a rifle myself still.
I've been playing the bison on anti-ecos before, and yes, it can be absolutely great to get quick spray-down aces on unarmored targets, but you can look really stupid they do buy armor + pistols, even if you do aim for headshots.
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On June 20 2014 17:09 Capped wrote:
What are "the effects of accuracy" - Don't all guns get less accurate at the same rates when moving / jumping etc? Or is it different depending on the gun? Considering that recoil pattern is just sprayed from standstill im not sure what else you could mean. Unless you mean the time it takes for recoil to reset after not firing?
Moving or firing adds inaccuracy, which makes the bullet deviate some amount from where it would go without the effect. The spraypatterns from that big album of GIFs are generated with accuracy set server-side to perfect so that we can find the spray pattern. Actual shooting will include inaccuracy based on how long you have been spraying and whether or not you have been moving.
Fun fact: if you run and spray with an AK, it still follows the spray pattern. However, you can't actually tell since the inaccuracy effect is orders of magnitute more impactful than the spray pattern.
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On June 20 2014 23:06 NihiLStarcraft wrote:I made a quick video again, this time explaining how to set up a good practice workout against bots in deathmatch mode. + Show Spoiler +As always, I'm not sure if this helps anybody - maybe it does. When I researched this, all I could find where zip-archives with hundreds of configs in them, my approach is more compact and very simple. Let me know if there's anything wrong in the video etc., or if you'd rather I not post that stuff here. Feel free to also tell me if you did find it a bit helpful! ^_^
Maybe the commands I gave you don't work because you're on death match instead of casual/competitive?
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On June 20 2014 23:24 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 17:09 Capped wrote:
What are "the effects of accuracy" - Don't all guns get less accurate at the same rates when moving / jumping etc? Or is it different depending on the gun? Considering that recoil pattern is just sprayed from standstill im not sure what else you could mean. Unless you mean the time it takes for recoil to reset after not firing? Moving or firing adds inaccuracy, which makes the bullet deviate some amount from where it would go without the effect. The spraypatterns from that big album of GIFs are generated with accuracy set server-side to perfect so that we can find the spray pattern. Actual shooting will include inaccuracy based on how long you have been spraying and whether or not you have been moving. Fun fact: if you run and spray with an AK, it still follows the spray pattern. However, you can't actually tell since the inaccuracy effect is orders of magnitute more impactful than the spray pattern.
To visualize this effect:
weapon_debug_spread_show 1
(requires cheats on)
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EPT
