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Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 12 2016 10:34 GMT
#21681
I personally did the switch. When I started CS I had an extremely high sens, that I used to play with in other FPS like Battlefield or solo games.

I gradually switched over the first year as I really felt it was not possible for me to be precise with such a high sens and just my wrist movements. It's relatively easy, but there are a few requirements, namely not having a health condition (heh), having enough space on your desk/bed/wherever you play and having a mousepad big enough (I feel like mine is starting to be too small for the sens I use).
LiquipediaWanderer
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
December 12 2016 12:48 GMT
#21682
On December 12 2016 19:34 Ragnarork wrote:
I personally did the switch. When I started CS I had an extremely high sens, that I used to play with in other FPS like Battlefield or solo games.

I gradually switched over the first year as I really felt it was not possible for me to be precise with such a high sens and just my wrist movements. It's relatively easy, but there are a few requirements, namely not having a health condition (heh), having enough space on your desk/bed/wherever you play and having a mousepad big enough (I feel like mine is starting to be too small for the sens I use).


Well, now playing 10 years with high sense (not only in FPS, but also in RTS and other games) I dont even have these requirements. While my wrists should be much better (no Tennis anymore, much less handwriting) now, I dont own a mousepad and my desk space is "optimized" for my small movement window.

It is obviously possible to change your sense in any way with some training and time. But aslong you have fun with what sense you have you should keep it. Losing because you dont hit shots with high sense as also healh problems due to very low sense can reduce your fun and thus you need to adjust. But gaming is a hobby, aslong you are happy, your sense is the right one.

Hell, I even experimented with mouse acceleration. But that went terrible wrong.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 12 2016 14:30 GMT
#21683
Haha, mouse acceleration is horrible as well for me. Still, a few pros play with it on.
LiquipediaWanderer
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-12 15:47:14
December 12 2016 15:43 GMT
#21684
On December 12 2016 15:58 Nixer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2016 15:40 Rebs wrote:
On December 12 2016 14:28 Nixer wrote:
On December 12 2016 05:02 Rebs wrote:
On December 12 2016 04:48 Nixer wrote:
People have been able to train themselves by keeping attention to their hand movement and actively thinking about not twisting their wrist. Slowly but surely at the very least.

However as long as you're not experiencing any pain whatsoever then anything that you're otherwise comfortable with is fine. Just stating it's still quite possible.


I did this around 2005/6 but i had way to much time to move from wrist to arm. its unreasonable to expext ppl to learn to swipe for 180's after so long if the just play casually.

If your health or condition depends on it then I don't think it's unreasonable at all. You have to do it.


well he has found a way around that already so health isnt the issue he is looking to solve. Can you explain to me how his health situation makes it imperative for him to go through the misery of switching from his current state to arm? I dont see how this is a relevant point.

If your rest is so fucked that you are considering other options its still not a viable solution,

There is plenty of wrist action in arm play. Its mostly 45-60 degree plus moves that require swipes.

I even bolded parts of my post to make it clearer what I meant so I'm not really sure why you're having trouble understanding what I meant. I was speaking hypothetically.

It depends.


I guess I was just looking for some sort of value that point was adding to the conversation. Answering someones situation with a hypothetical that doesnt apply to him and is something he is aware of is kinda of a nothing comment.
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 12 2016 16:40 GMT
#21685
He just said a general statement and then commented on his situation specifically as a "in your case may not apply, but otherwise it's possible".

So that's not a worthless comment. I think there's some overthinking going on there.
LiquipediaWanderer
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-12 17:49:48
December 12 2016 17:39 GMT
#21686
On December 13 2016 01:40 Ragnarork wrote:
He just said a general statement and then commented on his situation specifically as a "in your case may not apply, but otherwise it's possible".

So that's not a worthless comment. I think there's some overthinking going on there.


There is no scenario in which your wrist is damaged where lowering your sense is beneficial. None. There is no way practical way to avoid wrist flicks or "train" yourself into using just your arm and a straight hand, if you do that with a low sense you will need a pool table to walk around to make a turn. So the hypothetical is incorrect to begin with, nor did it address his specific situation accurately.

Wrist issues arent a new thing. The work around has always been a higher sensitivity at the cost of less stability and accuracy. Which is what Clonestar is already doing so its alright.
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-12 19:37:19
December 12 2016 19:06 GMT
#21687
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.
Graphics
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-12 19:56:58
December 12 2016 19:56 GMT
#21688
Guys, when i play counterstrike i notice that i cant move my mouse in a straight line.
Like i feel really bad at it, it may work when i concentrate purely on it and think about it hard, but i cant do that in fights or when i need to focus on "enemy might come here", you know in competetive for example.

So when i spray the spray pattern goes anywhere, feels really bad.
Like when you are supposed to move the mouse down when spraying , icant even do that properly.

So without firing the gun, i cant even move the mouse from A to B consistently, the mouse moves up and down so its not straight..

Is this me or are humans bad at this in general?
What about you guys, are you good at this?

If so, how did you get good at it?
If you are unsure and havent thought about it, i guess you can go into paint program where you paintand try and draaw straight lines.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-12 21:23:05
December 12 2016 21:19 GMT
#21689
On December 13 2016 04:06 Nixer wrote:
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.


I mean pointing out something wrong isnt really getting worked up, but sure.

Again your advice regarding limiting wrist movement by lowering sense isnt practical advice because lowering sense doesnt translate to lowering wrist movement.

The whole point of lowering sense to get stability is that within small and expansive movements of the wrist itself. The arm comes into play only for aiming wider. So its not a solution. People might think that it is. Its not.

if it was a solution then guys like Guardian wouldnt be playing 4.1 sense to combat their wrist issues. I wish someone had told them that actually lowering sense is the answer.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19054 Posts
December 12 2016 21:24 GMT
#21690
On December 13 2016 02:39 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 01:40 Ragnarork wrote:
He just said a general statement and then commented on his situation specifically as a "in your case may not apply, but otherwise it's possible".

So that's not a worthless comment. I think there's some overthinking going on there.


There is no scenario in which your wrist is damaged where lowering your sense is beneficial. None. There is no way practical way to avoid wrist flicks or "train" yourself into using just your arm and a straight hand, if you do that with a low sense you will need a pool table to walk around to make a turn. So the hypothetical is incorrect to begin with, nor did it address his specific situation accurately.

Wrist issues arent a new thing. The work around has always been a higher sensitivity at the cost of less stability and accuracy. Which is what Clonestar is already doing so its alright.

the work around has been strengthening the wrist by exercising it.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
December 12 2016 21:27 GMT
#21691
On December 13 2016 06:24 tofucake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 02:39 Rebs wrote:
On December 13 2016 01:40 Ragnarork wrote:
He just said a general statement and then commented on his situation specifically as a "in your case may not apply, but otherwise it's possible".

So that's not a worthless comment. I think there's some overthinking going on there.


There is no scenario in which your wrist is damaged where lowering your sense is beneficial. None. There is no way practical way to avoid wrist flicks or "train" yourself into using just your arm and a straight hand, if you do that with a low sense you will need a pool table to walk around to make a turn. So the hypothetical is incorrect to begin with, nor did it address his specific situation accurately.

Wrist issues arent a new thing. The work around has always been a higher sensitivity at the cost of less stability and accuracy. Which is what Clonestar is already doing so its alright.

the work around has been strengthening the wrist by exercising it.


Thats not a work around. Thats a solution :p
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 12 2016 22:38 GMT
#21692
On December 13 2016 06:27 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 06:24 tofucake wrote:
On December 13 2016 02:39 Rebs wrote:
On December 13 2016 01:40 Ragnarork wrote:
He just said a general statement and then commented on his situation specifically as a "in your case may not apply, but otherwise it's possible".

So that's not a worthless comment. I think there's some overthinking going on there.


There is no scenario in which your wrist is damaged where lowering your sense is beneficial. None. There is no way practical way to avoid wrist flicks or "train" yourself into using just your arm and a straight hand, if you do that with a low sense you will need a pool table to walk around to make a turn. So the hypothetical is incorrect to begin with, nor did it address his specific situation accurately.

Wrist issues arent a new thing. The work around has always been a higher sensitivity at the cost of less stability and accuracy. Which is what Clonestar is already doing so its alright.

the work around has been strengthening the wrist by exercising it.


Thats not a work around. Thats a solution :p


Honestly, thanks for the laugh.
LiquipediaWanderer
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-13 07:33:03
December 13 2016 07:15 GMT
#21693
On December 13 2016 06:19 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 04:06 Nixer wrote:
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.


I mean pointing out something wrong isnt really getting worked up, but sure.

Again your advice regarding limiting wrist movement by lowering sense isnt practical advice because lowering sense doesnt translate to lowering wrist movement.

The whole point of lowering sense to get stability is that within small and expansive movements of the wrist itself. The arm comes into play only for aiming wider. So its not a solution. People might think that it is. Its not.

if it was a solution then guys like Guardian wouldnt be playing 4.1 sense to combat their wrist issues. I wish someone had told them that actually lowering sense is the answer.

Wasn't the point to be preventive not what to do during an injury?

Only Guardian didn't have typical RSI, his injury was different. Your counterpoint is pretty much null.

Fair enough though, you might be right. Best solution is to cut off arm I'm sure.
Graphics
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7104 Posts
December 13 2016 09:03 GMT
#21694
On December 13 2016 06:19 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 04:06 Nixer wrote:
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.


I mean pointing out something wrong isnt really getting worked up, but sure.

Again your advice regarding limiting wrist movement by lowering sense isnt practical advice because lowering sense doesnt translate to lowering wrist movement.

The whole point of lowering sense to get stability is that within small and expansive movements of the wrist itself. The arm comes into play only for aiming wider. So its not a solution. People might think that it is. Its not.

if it was a solution then guys like Guardian wouldnt be playing 4.1 sense to combat their wrist issues. I wish someone had told them that actually lowering sense is the answer.

Didn't Guardian have some sort of injury from football or something similar, rather than the standard RSI stuff.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
December 13 2016 09:04 GMT
#21695
On December 13 2016 16:15 Nixer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 06:19 Rebs wrote:
On December 13 2016 04:06 Nixer wrote:
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.


I mean pointing out something wrong isnt really getting worked up, but sure.

Again your advice regarding limiting wrist movement by lowering sense isnt practical advice because lowering sense doesnt translate to lowering wrist movement.

The whole point of lowering sense to get stability is that within small and expansive movements of the wrist itself. The arm comes into play only for aiming wider. So its not a solution. People might think that it is. Its not.

if it was a solution then guys like Guardian wouldnt be playing 4.1 sense to combat their wrist issues. I wish someone had told them that actually lowering sense is the answer.

Wasn't the point to be preventive not what to do during an injury?

Only Guardian didn't have typical RSI, his injury was different. Your counterpoint is pretty much null.

Fair enough though, you might be right. Best solution is to cut off arm I'm sure.

It's honestly not the worst solution xD
Administrator
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-13 14:44:56
December 13 2016 14:33 GMT
#21696
On December 13 2016 16:15 Nixer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2016 06:19 Rebs wrote:
On December 13 2016 04:06 Nixer wrote:
bzzt. You don't think discussion about something in general isn't worthwhile instead of directly addressing somebody with specific relevant information. Like what?

If you're having legitimate wrist problems you probably shouldn't be using a mouse at all, if possible that is, but instead actually taking care of it by doing certain regiments, therapy or simply resting depending on the issue and how severe it is. Certain people have circumvented RSI, talking about the standard type of wrist RSI here of course, by focusing on making minimal wrist movements. Which makes perfect sense, right? One way to do that is to lower your sensitivity so that it no longer makes much sense to use mainly wrist movements. Not an actual solution but in a roundabout way can work.

It's just a tip that has worked for somebody and I honestly don't know why you seemingly are so worked up about it.


I mean pointing out something wrong isnt really getting worked up, but sure.

Again your advice regarding limiting wrist movement by lowering sense isnt practical advice because lowering sense doesnt translate to lowering wrist movement.

The whole point of lowering sense to get stability is that within small and expansive movements of the wrist itself. The arm comes into play only for aiming wider. So its not a solution. People might think that it is. Its not.

if it was a solution then guys like Guardian wouldnt be playing 4.1 sense to combat their wrist issues. I wish someone had told them that actually lowering sense is the answer.

Wasn't the point to be preventive not what to do during an injury?

Only Guardian didn't have typical RSI, his injury was different. Your counterpoint is pretty much null.

Fair enough though, you might be right. Best solution is to cut off arm I'm sure.


It doesnt matter if its RSI or something else it still applies, the same goes for preventative measures, its not a question of me possibly being right. The strain factor doesnt change either, you can dance around it but there is no grey area here lol. Your advice was bad and could make people hurt themselves, think about that and reflect.
+ Show Spoiler +

Or better yet try this an exercise, lower your sense eh sayyy like 4/5 on windows and 1 ingame, .. and then dont use your wrist at all. Then play anything for 5 minutes. Heck screw playing just browse the internet, If you dont move your wrist at all your arm will drop like a limp dick after 3 minutes of fatigue. And believe it or not, it will still put a strain on your wrist, because you know where the strain from keeping the arm steady goes ? Bingo.

Its ok to make suggestions but its clear you have no experience with this suggestion nor did you understand it, nor did you think it through. Its a terrible hill to die on.
.
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-13 21:21:18
December 13 2016 16:04 GMT
#21697
Yeah sorry I probably got a bit too heated, hopefully no hard feelings.
I did want it to seem like I advocated injuries as I've previously at least implied that with issues you shouldn't use your wrist at all.
Graphics
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19054 Posts
December 13 2016 18:06 GMT
#21698
everyone calm the fuck down
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
biollmax1984
Profile Joined December 2016
United States4 Posts
December 17 2016 13:19 GMT
#21699
--- Nuked ---
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-19 19:13:51
December 19 2016 19:12 GMT
#21700
i hate this community so much, we were 2v1 as ct and i wanted to go as 2. Meaning, we leave one bombsite alone.
And then when i follow our guy to one bombsite, the other one gets planted. Then we die 1v2 when we move there.

And they get so mad. Infact they got mad when Terrorist planted the bomb and wanted to kick me.
If YOU want to play ONE STRAT AND ONE STRAT ONLY, then you are at fault.

1b 1a
Or leaving one bombsite alone works aswell but nah, lets get mad and kick me instead, on top of this i had double kills than the second on team, i got us many rounds.
Dunno the rank but this idiocy is on every level.

I do just fine without having mic on for me or my teammates. The idiocy in mic is just to much for me aswell.
They either talk none-stop, or they tell you how to play, or they flame you when you make a mistake. Thats 90% the case tbh.
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