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Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit.
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Well, just started playing heavily a couple days ago, working on building a flicker strike duelist because I saw the build and it looks trolly as fuck.
Am very sad that I will not be able to get a multistrike until I beat merciless; a lot of the gear also seems pretty hard to attain but I am having fun anyhow. Just leveling with a friend, finally got a variation of the FS build to work without multistrike just to play with it and it is really fun from what I've played around with.
My biggest thoughts/concerns as a level 41 duelist following THIS guide:
1. Life/mana leech...Currently able to sustain the jumps with Life on hit if I can start a successful chain reaction, if not then it gets a bit iffy. I see that in some variations he specs into the +mana on kill at the bottom of the duelist tree, I might sneak those in too, just because the gear I am finding right now is on the lower end.
2. Damage - really fucking dependent on the gear that drops, right now waiting for the next tier of 2H weapon to drop so that I can orb it up and get the massive damage increase.
3. Way to negate blood rage - do not have it, other than getting into the swing of things and beating up a lot of shit/recovering life with LoH gem. Maybe just life leech gem instead?
Other than that I can't wait until I finally get a multistrike so I can flicker the shit out of things. I sure wish I got some of the items that the build mentions, - but more than that I wish that there was a way to do this build that isn't as item dependent xO.
IN OTHER NEWS: Holy shit does the game rubberband and lag spike like fuck when playing as a melee character, what the FUCK. And I'm not even using flicker strike, I'm just using heavy blow and melee splash to level my dude up. I wish it would die down, because damn this game is fun.
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On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit.
The top right sucks so much that I never use it, so I honestly have absolutely no idea what's even in that area haha
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On December 08 2013 13:34 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, that life wheel is pretty crazy. There isn't a single life-based build I currently use that doesn't get all the life nodes in that wheel. It's really convenient, especially since berserking and 10 all res node are right next to it, but stuff like that kind of ruins build diversity.
I think they could nerf that life wheel and remove 3-4 of the life nodes and add these life nodes to the ranger and duelist tree. That way ranger and duelist still have the option to get that life wheel, but they won't feel like it's absolutely necessary.
I think the ranger and duelist tree both lack life nodes, if it wasn't for the easily accessible scion life wheel, these two classes would by far have the lowest effective hp pool. Not really sure about shadow, I mean you could always go CI with shadow, but with how good life builds are now and how spells seem kind of bad compared to bow and melee attacks I don't think that's an option, life-based shadow builds were always kinda sketchy and felt pretty weak.
I mean there are only 2 shadows in the top 100 of nemesis and shadows as a whole only make up less than 5% of the nemesis population.
With CI not being better than life anymore and shadow (with the exception of witch obviously) being the most inefficient starting class in accessing the scion life wheel, I think it's kind of obvious why they are so unpopular now. I wonder if they will ever rework the shadow tree, because from what I was told they are kinda meh in races aswell now that cleave got nerfed.
Shadows started sucking a whole lot in races the second they nerfed the piss out of firetrap.
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On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit.
Witches don't even have good access to ES nodes. There's only one ES cluster in the Witch starting area, and you have to path through life or ES cooldown recovery to get there. People take it when they go CI, yes, but that's only because you path there from right next to CI. Heck, the two EV/ES clusters and two AR/ES clusters are strictly better.
Compare Templar, which has three distinct life clusters in its vicinity, or Duelist, with two and access to the Scion wheel, or Ranger, with both the EV/life, Thick Skin, and 28% life triad. Only Marauder is shafted more when it comes to access to what should be bread and butter for the class.
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They should probably make combo ES/Life nodes powerful enough that even CI classes want them. Stuff like 8% to both, or maybe 6% Life, 6% Mana, 6% ES. Give those CI guys some base life, and maybe allow people to even consider a life+ES build (that would still likely suck).
And evasion nodes are still disgusting. Evasion only works against attacks, so right there it should be ~twice as strong as a life node, but 10% evasion is worth maybe 4% life against attacks in a typical case. I know I wouldn't pick 15% evasion nodes, and 20% would still not be a pick over 8% life even when you already have +200% life and no evasion passive. But you can't really fix that as long as IR wants evasion nodes. Removing the dex bonus really wasn't the right fix.
On a final note, a buff to cast on stun + stun recovery would be a good buff to CI/acrobatics.
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If there is still room in the TL guild I'd love an invite,ign is:UncleDOOM.
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On December 08 2013 17:39 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit. Witches don't even have good access to ES nodes. There's only one ES cluster in the Witch starting area, and you have to path through life or ES cooldown recovery to get there. People take it when they go CI, yes, but that's only because you path there from right next to CI. Heck, the two EV/ES clusters and two AR/ES clusters are strictly better. Compare Templar, which has three distinct life clusters in its vicinity, or Duelist, with two and access to the Scion wheel, or Ranger, with both the EV/life, Thick Skin, and 28% life triad. Only Marauder is shafted more when it comes to access to what should be bread and butter for the class.
I think marauder absolutely has it the easiest to access life. They have the choice, go for scion life wheel (which is very close) or take damage nodes with % life. Don't really see how you could argue that marauder is shafted from anything, there are life nodes no matter where they decide to go and they are right next to the scion life wheel. Sorry but that's just an absurd statement imo. (I don't know if you realize this but there are tons of 6% life nodes which also give dmg close to the marauder tree, they are by far the strongest because they are pretty much the only class that has easy access to nodes that both increase your life while increasing your damage at the same time - 1 point cant be more efficient than that - and the nodes are all over the place and conveniently placed close to very essential nodes such as unwavering stance or resolute technique, marauders have it perfect)
I mean ask yourself, why any max life build that people theorize about starts off with marauder, it's really simple, their first few nodes massively increase their life and they have by far the easiest access to life nodes. Even in theory you can't be more efficient with life/point than with the marauder, it's the go-to class for life stacking, even scion is slightly worse (though still extremely efficient) in that regard.
I ignore the EV/life nodes in the ranger tree on purpose, because they are inefficient compared to all other life nodes. Matter of fact, if you plan on going lategame ranger you are better off taking the top nodes in the ranger tree and then work your way towards the bottom, because the EV/life nodes are just a waste (especially the first with 12 or so life and 16% evasion is just useless in most lategame builds, that's not a node I would ever even consider taking, unless for maybe an evasion build, which I personally think are bad and even in that scenario you have better options, start out as scion for example)
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oh damn too bad, #5 overall and only 3rd mara at the descent champion race.
RNG was so so, did not find any Mallet (sucks) so i was using a blue primitive staff with some IPD until lvl 17, lol. Then however i got a really good rare weapon, followed by another better rare weapon at lvl 22 which was insane. found 2 useless uniques as well.
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Has anyone experience with a non discipline ci summoner? Im sitting at 5,7k with and 4,2k ES without discipline, but id really, really like to be able to run hatred+purity(+clarity) which would mean id have to cut discipline. Now in domination dying every now and then isnt that much of an issue but of course id rather prefer not to. With every other character type i guess discipline would be a no brainer, but summoner+double curse is such a safe playstyle im really tempted...
tl;dr: ~4,2k ES enough for a summoner?
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anyone have a Nemesis Cyclone build to recommend?
not sure whether to go 1H/S, DW, or 2H and will probably be soloing maps up to Lvl 80 where I'll likely be dead or bored of the build by then
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On December 09 2013 02:36 udgnim wrote:
anyone have a Nemesis Cyclone build to recommend?
not sure whether to go 1H/S, DW, or 2H and will probably be soloing maps up to Lvl 80 where I'll likely be dead or bored of the build by then
0 because you will desync and die.
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On December 08 2013 19:16 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 17:39 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit. Witches don't even have good access to ES nodes. There's only one ES cluster in the Witch starting area, and you have to path through life or ES cooldown recovery to get there. People take it when they go CI, yes, but that's only because you path there from right next to CI. Heck, the two EV/ES clusters and two AR/ES clusters are strictly better. Compare Templar, which has three distinct life clusters in its vicinity, or Duelist, with two and access to the Scion wheel, or Ranger, with both the EV/life, Thick Skin, and 28% life triad. Only Marauder is shafted more when it comes to access to what should be bread and butter for the class. I think marauder absolutely has it the easiest to access life. They have the choice, go for scion life wheel (which is very close) or take damage nodes with % life. Don't really see how you could argue that marauder is shafted from anything, there are life nodes no matter where they decide to go and they are right next to the scion life wheel. Sorry but that's just an absurd statement imo. (I don't know if you realize this but there are tons of 6% life nodes which also give dmg close to the marauder tree, they are by far the strongest because they are pretty much the only class that has easy access to nodes that both increase your life while increasing your damage at the same time - 1 point cant be more efficient than that - and the nodes are all over the place and conveniently placed close to very essential nodes such as unwavering stance or resolute technique, marauders have it perfect) I mean ask yourself, why any max life build that people theorize about starts off with marauder, it's really simple, their first few nodes massively increase their life and they have by far the easiest access to life nodes. Even in theory you can't be more efficient with life/point than with the marauder, it's the go-to class for life stacking, even scion is slightly worse (though still extremely efficient) in that regard. I ignore the EV/life nodes in the ranger tree on purpose, because they are inefficient compared to all other life nodes. Matter of fact, if you plan on going lategame ranger you are better off taking the top nodes in the ranger tree and then work your way towards the bottom, because the EV/life nodes are just a waste (especially the first with 12 or so life and 16% evasion is just useless in most lategame builds, that's not a node I would ever even consider taking, unless for maybe an evasion build, which I personally think are bad and even in that scenario you have better options, start out as scion for example)
Marauder is shafted because all their life nodes path through several godawful nodes, there is no way to go through their offensive nodes without also pathing through godawful nodes, and the only way to get to the Scion Life Wheel without also passing godawful nodes is the Berserking route. It's far better to start as something else then slide along the outside of the tree for Elemental Adaptation, and if you need a little life or regen pop in. Maybe if Purity of Essence actually did something Marauder would be in a better situation. The stupid tertiary focus on Crit Chance doesn't either.
And yeah, the 12% damage/6% life (there are only 3 chunks of 2 anywhere near Marauder, hardly "tons") or 10% armor are great...but none of them are in the Marauder start and all are, once again, accessed best from the outside of the tree. Hell, Deadly Precision and Smashing Blows' life nodes ARE on the outside of the tree.
RF builds these days are probably better off as Scions than Marauders. Mors himself admits his Iron Will max strength build would be more point efficient as a duelist. The problem isn't that they don't have life nodes, it's they have one cluster of life nodes stranded in the middle of nowhere on the tree that takes a good 4-5 points to path out of. Even the 2% life leech with 24% life is far easier to get by sliding around the tree than it is from the Marauder start.
The Ranger nodes are generally worth it with IR, as that's an easy 24% armor+2 point life cluster for 4 in a good IR build (note that people generally build IR with 0 +EV nodes and plenty of +armor nodes, as they're mentally deficient). Lots of people path to bizarre places to get life when they really shouldn't, something about that red color sets people off.
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I seriously hate the upper sub passage!! -_- can't seem to find the way out and I just got stuck between blood princess and merveil's daughter with like 30 mobs in a choke point in 12 min race... ughhh
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I'm running a bow scion (shitastic I know) and I'm wondering if I should take Point Blank. I'm playing with a friend so I'm able to keep fairly far away if I want.
Also, I don't know if I'm using the right skills- Split Arrow, Frenzy and Explosive Arrow. There don't seem to be any gems that are good to link to those.
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On December 09 2013 03:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 19:16 SlixSC wrote:On December 08 2013 17:39 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit. Witches don't even have good access to ES nodes. There's only one ES cluster in the Witch starting area, and you have to path through life or ES cooldown recovery to get there. People take it when they go CI, yes, but that's only because you path there from right next to CI. Heck, the two EV/ES clusters and two AR/ES clusters are strictly better. Compare Templar, which has three distinct life clusters in its vicinity, or Duelist, with two and access to the Scion wheel, or Ranger, with both the EV/life, Thick Skin, and 28% life triad. Only Marauder is shafted more when it comes to access to what should be bread and butter for the class. I think marauder absolutely has it the easiest to access life. They have the choice, go for scion life wheel (which is very close) or take damage nodes with % life. Don't really see how you could argue that marauder is shafted from anything, there are life nodes no matter where they decide to go and they are right next to the scion life wheel. Sorry but that's just an absurd statement imo. (I don't know if you realize this but there are tons of 6% life nodes which also give dmg close to the marauder tree, they are by far the strongest because they are pretty much the only class that has easy access to nodes that both increase your life while increasing your damage at the same time - 1 point cant be more efficient than that - and the nodes are all over the place and conveniently placed close to very essential nodes such as unwavering stance or resolute technique, marauders have it perfect) I mean ask yourself, why any max life build that people theorize about starts off with marauder, it's really simple, their first few nodes massively increase their life and they have by far the easiest access to life nodes. Even in theory you can't be more efficient with life/point than with the marauder, it's the go-to class for life stacking, even scion is slightly worse (though still extremely efficient) in that regard. I ignore the EV/life nodes in the ranger tree on purpose, because they are inefficient compared to all other life nodes. Matter of fact, if you plan on going lategame ranger you are better off taking the top nodes in the ranger tree and then work your way towards the bottom, because the EV/life nodes are just a waste (especially the first with 12 or so life and 16% evasion is just useless in most lategame builds, that's not a node I would ever even consider taking, unless for maybe an evasion build, which I personally think are bad and even in that scenario you have better options, start out as scion for example) Marauder is shafted because all their life nodes path through several godawful nodes, there is no way to go through their offensive nodes without also pathing through godawful nodes, and the only way to get to the Scion Life Wheel without also passing godawful nodes is the Berserking route. It's far better to start as something else then slide along the outside of the tree for Elemental Adaptation, and if you need a little life or regen pop in. Maybe if Purity of Essence actually did something Marauder would be in a better situation. The stupid tertiary focus on Crit Chance doesn't either. And yeah, the 12% damage/6% life (there are only 3 chunks of 2 anywhere near Marauder, hardly "tons") or 10% armor are great...but none of them are in the Marauder start and all are, once again, accessed best from the outside of the tree. Hell, Deadly Precision and Smashing Blows' life nodes ARE on the outside of the tree. RF builds these days are probably better off as Scions than Marauders. Mors himself admits his Iron Will max strength build would be more point efficient as a duelist. The problem isn't that they don't have life nodes, it's they have one cluster of life nodes stranded in the middle of nowhere on the tree that takes a good 4-5 points to path out of. Even the 2% life leech with 24% life is far easier to get by sliding around the tree than it is from the Marauder start. The Ranger nodes are generally worth it with IR, as that's an easy 24% armor+2 point life cluster for 4 in a good IR build (note that people generally build IR with 0 +EV nodes and plenty of +armor nodes, as they're mentally deficient). Lots of people path to bizarre places to get life when they really shouldn't, something about that red color sets people off.
On December 09 2013 03:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 19:16 SlixSC wrote:On December 08 2013 17:39 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 08 2013 14:39 SlixSC wrote:
Yeah, there are alot of things about the tree that need reworking. I'm generally very happy with marauder and templar, because they have easy access to the scion life wheel and plenty of dmg nodes with 6% life on top of them.
I wasn't even talking about Witch, because witch has so many problems it's almost pointless to even discuss them. no easy access to life clusters, spell and ele dmg values don't make alot of sense. I think at least the life part comes down to witch being a CI class, it has easy access to ES nodes all over the place, so if you want to build an ES character witch is the obvious choice. Witches are very weak for leveling, no doubt and I think they are easily the worst class in races. But the problem here really is conceptual, in a life league like nemeiss, an ES-based class will always feel alot weaker than a life-based class. It's just a conceptual thing, because endgame you can still build very strong CI characters, only problem is finding or trading for the gear to make it worth it. With CI you are very susceptible to status ailments and stun so you have to find ways around that. It's not easy, but I think witch for that reason is pretty much the expert class in path of exile. I don't think inexperienced players could ever make witch work.
As for duelist and ranger, I think duelist is really good for leveling, but endgame when it's all about life nodes you will find that marauder and scion have it alot easier in stacking life nodes. In the same sense, life nodes in the ranger tree are fairly limited and most of the life nodes in the ranger tree are 4% life nodes which makes them too inefficient to even consider. Like Pwere said, this is probably an oversight on GGG's part, they buffed all life nodes by at least 2%, except the life nodes in the ranger tree. The fact that they are coupled with evasion is hardly an argument against buffing these nodes, because templar and marauder both have access to 6% life nodes who also add damage. There is at least some inconsistency.
But yeah, overall I think we can all agree that the top right part of the tree probably needs some work and the scion life wheel should be rebalanced a little bit. Witches don't even have good access to ES nodes. There's only one ES cluster in the Witch starting area, and you have to path through life or ES cooldown recovery to get there. People take it when they go CI, yes, but that's only because you path there from right next to CI. Heck, the two EV/ES clusters and two AR/ES clusters are strictly better. Compare Templar, which has three distinct life clusters in its vicinity, or Duelist, with two and access to the Scion wheel, or Ranger, with both the EV/life, Thick Skin, and 28% life triad. Only Marauder is shafted more when it comes to access to what should be bread and butter for the class. I think marauder absolutely has it the easiest to access life. They have the choice, go for scion life wheel (which is very close) or take damage nodes with % life. Don't really see how you could argue that marauder is shafted from anything, there are life nodes no matter where they decide to go and they are right next to the scion life wheel. Sorry but that's just an absurd statement imo. (I don't know if you realize this but there are tons of 6% life nodes which also give dmg close to the marauder tree, they are by far the strongest because they are pretty much the only class that has easy access to nodes that both increase your life while increasing your damage at the same time - 1 point cant be more efficient than that - and the nodes are all over the place and conveniently placed close to very essential nodes such as unwavering stance or resolute technique, marauders have it perfect) I mean ask yourself, why any max life build that people theorize about starts off with marauder, it's really simple, their first few nodes massively increase their life and they have by far the easiest access to life nodes. Even in theory you can't be more efficient with life/point than with the marauder, it's the go-to class for life stacking, even scion is slightly worse (though still extremely efficient) in that regard. I ignore the EV/life nodes in the ranger tree on purpose, because they are inefficient compared to all other life nodes. Matter of fact, if you plan on going lategame ranger you are better off taking the top nodes in the ranger tree and then work your way towards the bottom, because the EV/life nodes are just a waste (especially the first with 12 or so life and 16% evasion is just useless in most lategame builds, that's not a node I would ever even consider taking, unless for maybe an evasion build, which I personally think are bad and even in that scenario you have better options, start out as scion for example) Marauder is shafted because all their life nodes path through several godawful nodes, there is no way to go through their offensive nodes without also pathing through godawful nodes, and the only way to get to the Scion Life Wheel without also passing godawful nodes is the Berserking route. It's far better to start as something else then slide along the outside of the tree for Elemental Adaptation, and if you need a little life or regen pop in. Maybe if Purity of Essence actually did something Marauder would be in a better situation. The stupid tertiary focus on Crit Chance doesn't either. And yeah, the 12% damage/6% life (there are only 3 chunks of 2 anywhere near Marauder, hardly "tons") or 10% armor are great...but none of them are in the Marauder start and all are, once again, accessed best from the outside of the tree. Hell, Deadly Precision and Smashing Blows' life nodes ARE on the outside of the tree. RF builds these days are probably better off as Scions than Marauders. Mors himself admits his Iron Will max strength build would be more point efficient as a duelist. The problem isn't that they don't have life nodes, it's they have one cluster of life nodes stranded in the middle of nowhere on the tree that takes a good 4-5 points to path out of. Even the 2% life leech with 24% life is far easier to get by sliding around the tree than it is from the Marauder start. The Ranger nodes are generally worth it with IR, as that's an easy 24% armor+2 point life cluster for 4 in a good IR build (note that people generally build IR with 0 +EV nodes and plenty of +armor nodes, as they're mentally deficient). Lots of people path to bizarre places to get life when they really shouldn't, something about that red color sets people off.
You are just wrong, I don't know what else to tell you. You say in order to get to the scion life wheel you have to go through god awful nodes? What are these god awful nodes?
Any max life build starts off as marauder because they are most efficient in accessing the scion wheel, start off with insanely good life nodes (I think the 14% life node in the marauder tree is the only 14% life node on the whole tree) and have easy access to a bunch of other life nodes wherever they go.
I actually did the math if marauder goes through heart of the gladioator and then goes right to the scion life wheel, they end up with the same amount of life and points spent as a ranger who rushes for every single life node on the ranger tree, plus 2% more life regen, more than 100 extra base life (heart of gladiator, path of the warrior, strength nodes) and 30% reduced damage taken from crit (ok this one is arguably not that great, but still), ranger only ends up with 40% evasion, now of course you can make that same trollish argument that so many people make and go "but with IR that's armor" and in fact you did make that argument. But of course what you didn't mention was that going IR makes any dex node absolutely useless. If you go IR and take dex nodes you can view any dex node as a wasted point.
I see so many people ignore this, to most people efficiency seems to be all about "how many good nodes am I taking ?" when in reality it's about "how many more good nodes than bad nodes am I taking?" And in that category Marauder wins, that's a fact dude, marauder offers you the most potential life of any class in the game. People have tested this and made max life builds and they all start off as marauder, because marauder has the most efficient access to life nodes, there is no exception.
I know that Mors always thinks marauder is bad, but honestly I don't believe for a second that a max strength build would be more efficient on duelist than marauder, I just don't believe it, if you can actually link me the two builds so I can compare them that would be great.
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On December 09 2013 12:00 Jerubaal wrote:
I'm running a bow scion (shitastic I know) and I'm wondering if I should take Point Blank. I'm playing with a friend so I'm able to keep fairly far away if I want.
Also, I don't know if I'm using the right skills- Split Arrow, Frenzy and Explosive Arrow. There don't seem to be any gems that are good to link to those.
i am also running a bow scion, currently 70 on nemesis. i clear pretty quick but am not so great vs bosses (doing piety runs is scary for me right now). here is how im playing mine to give you an idea
i run haste and hatred (though i might switch haste for anger for more burning).
then my links are split arrow, pierce, faster attacks, added fire, weapon elemental
i switch out weapon elemental for life leech when needed
explosive arrow is going to be easier to make functional than split arrow though. and lightning arrow is the most popular skill for bows.
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I've been thinking I might start playing this game again a bit. I have a level 71 summon witch with I think 91 skill points due to complete respec. Is FP still the most imba spell in the game? Has Act 4 come out yet? I remember reading that EK got nerfed, how bad is it? Are 6L still incredibly expensive?
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On December 09 2013 15:32 AnotherRandom wrote:
I've been thinking I might start playing this game again a bit. I have a level 71 summon witch with I think 91 skill points due to complete respec. Is FP still the most imba spell in the game? Has Act 4 come out yet? I remember reading that EK got nerfed, how bad is it? Are 6L still incredibly expensive?
No, there's this thing called spectral throw, and the changes to DOT is causes all sorts of shakeups
No, but we have act 3.1 with the Imperial Garden/Library/Tower of God + Dominus which is basically Act 4.
EK nerf wasn't that bad IIRC.
6L are always expensive, but 4L are worth nothing and 5L are significantly cheaper and easier to roll.
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It's not basically act 4, it's the rest of act 3. Act 4 is being worked on and will probably be out sometime next year.
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EPT
