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Path of Exile - Page 382

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Guild invites: Message any of EvoSenseOfPride, ScionViableORly, neophyteWham, TheTouchOfGOLD in game
OR
post your character name in the thread and ask for an invite
Private league ladder (finished): https://www.pathofexile.com/private-leagues/league/TeamLiquid and friends
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 17:00:26
March 15 2013 17:00 GMT
#7621
I agree with you r.Evo. You should make a topic about it on PoE forums, I will join you there. I put this same thoughts about Shadow tree being much weaker then Templar tree on few random topics but nobody ever made a topic about it.

And it is not only defensive nodes or elemental ones, templar also has better mana management nodes. Only crit nodes are better for shadows, but if you don't want to go crit or don't use a crit weapon (claw or dagger) you are fracked.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 17:38:16
March 15 2013 17:21 GMT
#7622
Yeah, I'm debating making this a topic on the forums and, more importantly, reddit. I'm gonna wait till Tyrran shows up and talk with him first, guy has more capacity for smashing math in peoples faces than I do. :>

Edit: I just noticed, a lot of it seems to have to do with layout as well. Let's compare a "fly-bys":

-If you pass the Templar tree from the outside, you get Lifenodes -> B&S/WED -> Lifenodes.
-If you pass by the Marauder tree you get Max Resists -> Resists -> Life
-If you pass by the Dualist tree you get Attackspeed / Life / Armor / Dual Wielding Passives, however IR and US being around here is a huge boost.

-If you pass by the Ranger tree you have access to... 3 lifenodes. The 6x8% lifecluster gives you access to.... sword/claw/dagger/bow accuracy passives. Oh, and the evasion nodes there... are in the middle, 2-3 points off the road.

-If you pass by the Shadow tree you have access to one of the Nullification clusters (the 2nd one is further out than the 2nd B&S cluster), some crit, some life, some elemental damage nodes. However, the elemental damage is only worth it if you use a single element.

-If you pass by the witch tree you... go just via the middle instead unless you want the power charge or shock chance. Hell, the witch has less energy shield nodes than both the shadow OR templar. We're talking 46% spread over 6 points. Obviously this is now compensated by the passives behind CI and easier access to the middle, but the Templar instead gets 44% over 4 points. Not to mention the 44% Armor and 10% resists he gets instead.

T_T
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
March 15 2013 17:36 GMT
#7623
You know what sucks? Thinking that you've won a bid in a forum post only to find out the person was also spamming the item in trade chat and sells it in game then doesn't update the thread to tell you that. I thought I was getting a pretty kick ass shield for my EK witch and suddenly the thread says SOLD below the item. Even though the guy quoted my post and said that this was the current offer and it will be sold today. Never updated the post after he'd sold it online. I only noticed the sold after I was checking the page for a final "this has been sold" post. Really shitty.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Pwere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 17:45:04
March 15 2013 17:41 GMT
#7624
Actually, it's a well known fact by the good streamers/players. Rangers and Witches have terrible starting areas. The whole area between Shadow and Ranger is a joke, and so is their way to the middle. The Marauder non-health side is also terrible.

When they buffed duelists, they added something like 5 nodes of free goodies. 12% AS, melee range/dmg, projectile damage/AS, 4% life, +12 flat life, and 2% block. I'd say the ranger and witch starting areas should get a similar buff, and another ~3 free nodes for Shadows. Shadow would arguably be very strong if there were 6.5% base crit bows or swords, but daggers are impossible to roll, and claws have pretty bad passives compared to daggers.

ps. Yeah, auctioneers are disgusting. Sometimes you win an item for a cheap price, and he decides to hold on to it, then relists it a few days later. Which is why we need the guild system ASAP. You do scummy shit, it reflects on your group. TL Guild ftw.
Tyrran
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
France777 Posts
March 15 2013 18:08 GMT
#7625
On March 16 2013 02:41 Pwere wrote:
Actually, it's a well known fact by the good streamers/players. Rangers and Witches have terrible starting areas. The whole area between Shadow and Ranger is a joke, and so is their way to the middle. The Marauder non-health side is also terrible.



Wat ? No its not terrible.

The non heath side gives you 50 %increased physical dmg for 5 points (one handed or 2 handed for the last 30%). How is that terrible ? Its imho one of the main reason why marauder > everything else for physical melee dmg builds.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 18:12:37
March 15 2013 18:11 GMT
#7626
On March 16 2013 02:36 Xinder wrote:
You know what sucks? Thinking that you've won a bid in a forum post only to find out the person was also spamming the item in trade chat and sells it in game then doesn't update the thread to tell you that. I thought I was getting a pretty kick ass shield for my EK witch and suddenly the thread says SOLD below the item. Even though the guy quoted my post and said that this was the current offer and it will be sold today. Never updated the post after he'd sold it online. I only noticed the sold after I was checking the page for a final "this has been sold" post. Really shitty.


I've experienced this before. It was a pretty nice 5L ES chest, nothing special but it was 5L and I had yet to own one ever in PoE. I was the only bidder in the thread despite the seller's like, ten bumps. Anyways, I message him ingame later on in the day and he confirms that he still hasn't sold the chest and that I'm the highest bidder. I tell him to please message me before he accepts any buyouts from anybody as I will pay more than any offer he gets no matter what. He tells me not to worry.

30 minutes later I check the thread again for shits and giggles and he's updated it with a new post saying like, "SOLD FOR 1EXAL PER BUYOUT". It's like, what the fuck man?

Some people are just shitty at trading.
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 18:21:38
March 15 2013 18:20 GMT
#7627
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
zomgE
Profile Joined January 2012
498 Posts
March 15 2013 18:20 GMT
#7628
nah, some people are just tired of people who think they're gonna win an item with their shitty lowball bids.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 18:38:19
March 15 2013 18:34 GMT
#7629
On March 16 2013 03:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.


I'm not sure if you're responding to me but I had tried that. Which is why I then told him to let me know before he accepted any buyout offer. He said he was going to wait to see what people would give him for it.

And no, shitty trading is shitty trading. Smart trading is smart trading. i.e., he could've accepted the 1exalt for the chest from that guy, or he could've accepted a higher offer from me that I had already guaranteed him.

Plain and simply, he lost money by selling it to that person rather than me.

When I had messaged him after asking why he accepted a lower offer than I was willing to give (and had already told him I'd give), he was like, "oh shit, I didn't think you'd pay more than 1exalt".
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 19:23:18
March 15 2013 19:14 GMT
#7630
On March 16 2013 03:34 Romance_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 03:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.


I'm not sure if you're responding to me but I had tried that. Which is why I then told him to let me know before he accepted any buyout offer. He said he was going to wait to see what people would give him for it.

And no, shitty trading is shitty trading. Smart trading is smart trading. i.e., he could've accepted the 1exalt for the chest from that guy, or he could've accepted a higher offer from me that I had already guaranteed him.

Plain and simply, he lost money by selling it to that person rather than me.

When I had messaged him after asking why he accepted a lower offer than I was willing to give (and had already told him I'd give), he was like, "oh shit, I didn't think you'd pay more than 1exalt".


If this 5L is as crappy as you say it is then an exalt is already overpaying for it. If I was in that situation I would take the exalt too because getting an extra GCP (At best, I've had people outbid by trying to add single chromatics. Those are the real assholes) from you when he is already getting a GCP or two over what the item is worth. This without knowing anything about the item besides it is a 5L and you saying it sucks.

Time also has a value in this game. He could waste 15 minutes tracking you down and then you end up outbidding by an alchemy orb or even worse. Sometimes it is smarter to just accept the first retarded offer you get even if there's a chance of getting slightly more.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 19:37:32
March 15 2013 19:36 GMT
#7631
On March 16 2013 04:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 03:34 Romance_us wrote:
On March 16 2013 03:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.


I'm not sure if you're responding to me but I had tried that. Which is why I then told him to let me know before he accepted any buyout offer. He said he was going to wait to see what people would give him for it.

And no, shitty trading is shitty trading. Smart trading is smart trading. i.e., he could've accepted the 1exalt for the chest from that guy, or he could've accepted a higher offer from me that I had already guaranteed him.

Plain and simply, he lost money by selling it to that person rather than me.

When I had messaged him after asking why he accepted a lower offer than I was willing to give (and had already told him I'd give), he was like, "oh shit, I didn't think you'd pay more than 1exalt".


If this 5L is as crappy as you say it is then an exalt is already overpaying for it. If I was in that situation I would take the exalt too because getting an extra GCP (At best, I've had people outbid by trying to add single chromatics. Those are the real assholes) from you when he is already getting a GCP or two over what the item is worth. This without knowing anything about the item besides it is a 5L and you saying it sucks.

Time also has a value in this game. He could waste 15 minutes tracking you down and then you end up outbidding by an alchemy orb or even worse. Sometimes it is smarter to just accept the first retarded offer you get even if there's a chance of getting slightly more.


... I agree, sometimes it is smarter. But not in this case, when he could've just sent me a quick message checking if I was there or not (based on the fact that I had just been talking to him 30 minutes beforehand). I told him I'd make it worthwhile to sell to me, as I am filthy rich.

And how did I get rich? By overselling to other rich people. It turns out that value is subjective in this economy
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 19:52:10
March 15 2013 19:48 GMT
#7632
On March 16 2013 04:36 Romance_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 04:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On March 16 2013 03:34 Romance_us wrote:
On March 16 2013 03:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.


I'm not sure if you're responding to me but I had tried that. Which is why I then told him to let me know before he accepted any buyout offer. He said he was going to wait to see what people would give him for it.

And no, shitty trading is shitty trading. Smart trading is smart trading. i.e., he could've accepted the 1exalt for the chest from that guy, or he could've accepted a higher offer from me that I had already guaranteed him.

Plain and simply, he lost money by selling it to that person rather than me.

When I had messaged him after asking why he accepted a lower offer than I was willing to give (and had already told him I'd give), he was like, "oh shit, I didn't think you'd pay more than 1exalt".


If this 5L is as crappy as you say it is then an exalt is already overpaying for it. If I was in that situation I would take the exalt too because getting an extra GCP (At best, I've had people outbid by trying to add single chromatics. Those are the real assholes) from you when he is already getting a GCP or two over what the item is worth. This without knowing anything about the item besides it is a 5L and you saying it sucks.

Time also has a value in this game. He could waste 15 minutes tracking you down and then you end up outbidding by an alchemy orb or even worse. Sometimes it is smarter to just accept the first retarded offer you get even if there's a chance of getting slightly more.


... I agree, sometimes it is smarter. But not in this case, when he could've just sent me a quick message checking if I was there or not (based on the fact that I had just been talking to him 30 minutes beforehand). I told him I'd make it worthwhile to sell to me, as I am filthy rich.

And how did I get rich? By overselling to other rich people. It turns out that value is subjective in this economy


I can pay ten exalts for an alteration orb. That doesn't change the value of alterations, it just makes me a retard. The value of something may be subjective, but if it isn't a top end item then it isn't worth your while. If your sole goal is to get a 5L there are plenty of crappy ones to buy. We aren't talking about picking up an end game rare or unique that is hard to find and isn't sold often.

Also finding somebody from 30 minutes ago is a bit much if you're trading multiple items.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Pwere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1557 Posts
March 15 2013 20:20 GMT
#7633
On March 16 2013 03:08 Tyrran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 02:41 Pwere wrote:
Actually, it's a well known fact by the good streamers/players. Rangers and Witches have terrible starting areas. The whole area between Shadow and Ranger is a joke, and so is their way to the middle. The Marauder non-health side is also terrible.



Wat ? No its not terrible.

The non heath side gives you 50 %increased physical dmg for 5 points (one handed or 2 handed for the last 30%). How is that terrible ? Its imho one of the main reason why marauder > everything else for physical melee dmg builds.
10% physical per point is fine, but it's subpar for a starting area that is a dead end. It's ok at low levels, but sucks later on. Look at the other nodes people take in physical builds, and they're all better. Few examples:
Skull cracking: 31% + 10% stun threshold for 3 points.
Fencing: 18% + 3% AS, 2 points
Cruel Blade: 26% + 4% AS for 3 points
And there are better packs, like Blade Master or Bone Smasher.
Templars have a similar start btw, except slightly better and it leads into some Glorious stuff.
Tyrran
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
France777 Posts
March 15 2013 22:13 GMT
#7634
On March 16 2013 05:20 Pwere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 03:08 Tyrran wrote:
On March 16 2013 02:41 Pwere wrote:
Actually, it's a well known fact by the good streamers/players. Rangers and Witches have terrible starting areas. The whole area between Shadow and Ranger is a joke, and so is their way to the middle. The Marauder non-health side is also terrible.



Wat ? No its not terrible.

The non heath side gives you 50 %increased physical dmg for 5 points (one handed or 2 handed for the last 30%). How is that terrible ? Its imho one of the main reason why marauder > everything else for physical melee dmg builds.
10% physical per point is fine, but it's subpar for a starting area that is a dead end. It's ok at low levels, but sucks later on. Look at the other nodes people take in physical builds, and they're all better. Few examples:
Skull cracking: 31% + 10% stun threshold for 3 points.
Fencing: 18% + 3% AS, 2 points
Cruel Blade: 26% + 4% AS for 3 points
And there are better packs, like Blade Master or Bone Smasher.
Templars have a similar start btw, except slightly better and it leads into some Glorious stuff.


Lets define "better" as : gives more damage per point.

Proposition #1: When it comes to melee damage, %dmg is strictly better than attack speed
Proof : Obvious when looking at the armor damage mitigation formula.

SkullCracking: 10.3% dmg per points
Fencing: strictly inferior to 10.5%dmg per point.
Cruel Blade strictly inferior to 10% dmg per point.
bone smasher 13% damage per points

So yeah, with bone smasher being a notable exception, they are not that much better than the marauder start zone. Considering that the marauder start zone is always available, with 0 points to get there whatever your build is, i'll still call that pretty good. It's not OP, but definitely not terrible



Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.
kellymilkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Singapore1393 Posts
March 15 2013 22:39 GMT
#7635
This game made one of my female friend's bf STRANGLE her because she turned off the com while he was playing it. HAHAHAHAHA
Be the change you wish to see in the world ^-^V //
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
March 15 2013 22:43 GMT
#7636
On March 16 2013 07:39 kellymilkies wrote:
This game made one of my female friend's bf STRANGLE her because she turned off the com while he was playing it. HAHAHAHAHA

I think I'd strangle anyone who would turn off my computer when I'm doing anything.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
March 15 2013 23:19 GMT
#7637
On March 16 2013 04:48 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 04:36 Romance_us wrote:
On March 16 2013 04:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On March 16 2013 03:34 Romance_us wrote:
On March 16 2013 03:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you're gonna outbid a buyout just ask him what his BIN price is and just buy it now. Shitty trading is smart trading.


I'm not sure if you're responding to me but I had tried that. Which is why I then told him to let me know before he accepted any buyout offer. He said he was going to wait to see what people would give him for it.

And no, shitty trading is shitty trading. Smart trading is smart trading. i.e., he could've accepted the 1exalt for the chest from that guy, or he could've accepted a higher offer from me that I had already guaranteed him.

Plain and simply, he lost money by selling it to that person rather than me.

When I had messaged him after asking why he accepted a lower offer than I was willing to give (and had already told him I'd give), he was like, "oh shit, I didn't think you'd pay more than 1exalt".


If this 5L is as crappy as you say it is then an exalt is already overpaying for it. If I was in that situation I would take the exalt too because getting an extra GCP (At best, I've had people outbid by trying to add single chromatics. Those are the real assholes) from you when he is already getting a GCP or two over what the item is worth. This without knowing anything about the item besides it is a 5L and you saying it sucks.

Time also has a value in this game. He could waste 15 minutes tracking you down and then you end up outbidding by an alchemy orb or even worse. Sometimes it is smarter to just accept the first retarded offer you get even if there's a chance of getting slightly more.


... I agree, sometimes it is smarter. But not in this case, when he could've just sent me a quick message checking if I was there or not (based on the fact that I had just been talking to him 30 minutes beforehand). I told him I'd make it worthwhile to sell to me, as I am filthy rich.

And how did I get rich? By overselling to other rich people. It turns out that value is subjective in this economy


I can pay ten exalts for an alteration orb. That doesn't change the value of alterations, it just makes me a retard. The value of something may be subjective, but if it isn't a top end item then it isn't worth your while. If your sole goal is to get a 5L there are plenty of crappy ones to buy. We aren't talking about picking up an end game rare or unique that is hard to find and isn't sold often.

Also finding somebody from 30 minutes ago is a bit much if you're trading multiple items.


The trade I'm talking about took place within a week of open beta. So no, there were not "plenty of crappy ones to buy". At the time, all 5L's were extremely valuable and were going for 2-3 exalts on average.

And no, finding somebody from 30 minutes ago is not a bit much. It is only a bit much if you are a shitty trader
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Finality
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
172 Posts
March 16 2013 00:26 GMT
#7638
I have a question, I found a 12% Ethereal knives and don't know what it's worth. I want to sell it, don't really plan on using the skill itself except maybe to try a gimmick build I was thinking about, but I'd rather just sell it and get more currency in my stash since I'm still leveling my first character.

It's on hardcore, if that makes a difference.

Is there some sort of spreadsheet/chart that would give general prices for quality gems that someone could link me to? I'd very much appreciate it.
Looks like their efforts... were in Vayne. (*sunglasses* YEAAAAAAAAA)
Yomi.Doom
Profile Joined April 2010
United States383 Posts
March 16 2013 00:36 GMT
#7639
On March 16 2013 09:26 Finality wrote:
I have a question, I found a 12% Ethereal knives and don't know what it's worth. I want to sell it, don't really plan on using the skill itself except maybe to try a gimmick build I was thinking about, but I'd rather just sell it and get more currency in my stash since I'm still leveling my first character.

It's on hardcore, if that makes a difference.

Is there some sort of spreadsheet/chart that would give general prices for quality gems that someone could link me to? I'd very much appreciate it.


I'd guess anywhere between 3gcp -> 1 exalt, don't take my word for it though. EK's quality bonus is pretty good and it's the main skill of many builds so should go for a little higher than standard quality gems.
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-16 03:10:34
March 16 2013 03:10 GMT
#7640
Welp. RIP lvl 48 EK Witch. Died to Vaal fist of doom. I had my zombies and skeles beating the shit out of him and didn't realize the AoE on the slam was wide enough to get me from my max EK range. So I just watched him raise his fist and did nothing. Guess I should have played it safe and backed off anyways but I really didn't think I'd take damage from it. Had a granite, 2 actually, and never used them. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Was my highest level so far in HC too. Sigh. Welp time to roll Elemental Cleave before it gets nerfed!
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
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