EPT2011-2012 football (soccer) thread - Page 486
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Tigi
Germany472 Posts
On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Lol, this has to be a joke. Bundesliga's 6-18th teams are so much ahead of the comparable teams in England and Spain. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 15 2012 00:37 Sated wrote: What? Although the club might not have been consistently at the top of English football since Busby (which was a lot longer than two decades ago), the same thing can be said about any top club in English football. The English league isn't like Spain, where the same 2 teams have been near or at the top since it started. Yea it can that was my point. You can call the other leagues whatever you want but the teams he was comparing them to have been at the top or near the top of their leagues consistently. I dont see why the league quality arguement has to get dragged in we arent discussing that. They have been at the top or near the top of their leagues so they have a greater history end of discussion. The Juve's the Barcelona's the Real Madrid's and the Milan's have a far richer "history" if your into that sort of thing. I dont think it matters much personally other than lousy brag points. And again the relative parity back in the day across all of them wasnt really that different. Atleast not like it is now. On June 15 2012 03:31 Tigi wrote: Lol, this has to be a joke. Bundesliga's 6-18th teams are so much ahead of the comparable teams in England and Spain. And yes that is a joke, just like Englands national team + Show Spoiler + oo nooo heee dddidddnntttttttt :p. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:31 Tigi wrote: Lol, this has to be a joke. Bundesliga's 6-18th teams are so much ahead of the comparable teams in England and Spain. Pretty much impossible to prove this. By the way the team the finished 6th in England this year won the Champions League. And Bilbao is 10th in Spain made the Uefa Cup final and knocked out Man Utd over two legs. | ||
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anomalopidae
Slovenia549 Posts
State media house in Slovenia posted an article about Samir Handanovic (Udinese) already signing for Inter Milan, fee is supposedly to be 14 million euro. They supposedly got that from Sky Sport 24 but I cannot find such article on their site, does anyone else know about this or has some information? All I found by googling is some denied rumours from couple days ago. | ||
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lex.licks.life
United States43 Posts
Absolutely beautiful moment. | ||
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Surrealistic
311 Posts
On June 15 2012 05:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Pretty much impossible to prove this. By the way the team the finished 6th in England this year won the Champions League. And Bilbao is 10th in Spain made the Uefa Cup final and knocked out Man Utd over two legs. Still knockout competitions aren't they? Gladbach finished 3rd from bottom 2010/11. 4th for 2011/12 season. No money to spend at all. On June 15 2012 05:57 anomalopidae wrote: Transfer rumours State media house in Slovenia posted an article about Samir Handanovic (Udinese) already signing for Inter Milan, fee is supposedly to be 14 million euro. They supposedly got that from Sky Sport 24 but I cannot find such article on their site, does anyone else know about this or has some information? All I found by googling is some denied rumours from couple days ago. Seems odd, 14m is quite a lot for a backup keeper, assuming they want to keep Julio Cesar. | ||
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:31 Tigi wrote: Lol, this has to be a joke. Bundesliga's 6-18th teams are so much ahead of the comparable teams in England and Spain. wahahahahaha. Ok bro. But tiering this leagues is really dumb anyway. | ||
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote: I am no fan of these clubs but its become the nature of the game now. There is no cap system in football and who are we to say what teams can do and cant ? What gives me or you the right ? The fact that clubs we support dont have money ? What if a Shiekh came along and bolstered the club you supported ? Not that its going to happen but as ambivalent as you might appear theres no way you wont be happy if it brings success. No way. I dont like it either I think its bad for the sport aswell, also you have to realise its not like they just "buy" the clubs. Theres a process involved and just like any business and its associated rulings teams can be taken over. No team if its public can "not" be bought wether people like the new owners or not. Its a business just like anything else. And its to large and vast to impress things like spending caps. This isnt the NBA, its WORLD football. UEFA is trying to do its bit but really theres a myriad of ways to get around it still so it wont be effective anytime soon. As a fan I have the right to express my opinion, no? I hate these sell-out clubs. We have a small village of 3000 people that has a Bundesliga team now. That is ridiculous. If a sheikh came around and bought Werder Bremen, I would cease to be a fan in no time, I promise you. I'm not a fan of my club because it's successful. Sure, if they're successful I'm happy, but if success was the only reason I support the club, I would rather be a fan of Bayern, Barca or Real Madrid. I'd much rather see Werder play in the lowest leagues than see them bought by a sheikh - and I'm sure that's true for a loooot of supporters. I tried to look up the laws for buying clubs in germany, but couldn't find anything useful. I am, however, quite sure that every club that is not listed in the stock exchange can not be bought without the consent of the club. And even with the stock exchange, that would only be possible if they a) gave out a significant amount of stocks and b) they would have to be able to buy a huge chunk of that (someone has to sell). FFP won't be effective for quite some time, I agree. I just hope lobbyism will get weakened and we will eventually have equal financial conditions for all clubs in europe - that said ManCity, Chelsea, PSG etc aren't the only black sheep we have in the scene right now. Clubs like Real Madrid are able to spend significantly more than they earn each year and are allowed to have gigantic debts. If Real Madrid played in the Bundesliga, they would've lost their license already. | ||
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On June 15 2012 19:32 Mandalor wrote: As a fan I have the right to express my opinion, no? I hate these sell-out clubs. We have a small village of 3000 people that has a Bundesliga team now. That is ridiculous. If a sheikh came around and bought Werder Bremen, I would cease to be a fan in no time, I promise you. I'm not a fan of my club because it's successful. Sure, if they're successful I'm happy, but if success was the only reason I support the club, I would rather be a fan of Bayern, Barca or Real Madrid. I'd much rather see Werder play in the lowest leagues than see them bought by a sheikh - and I'm sure that's true for a loooot of supporters. I tried to look up the laws for buying clubs in germany, but couldn't find anything useful. I am, however, quite sure that every club that is not listed in the stock exchange can not be bought without the consent of the club. And even with the stock exchange, that would only be possible if they a) gave out a significant amount of stocks and b) they would have to be able to buy a huge chunk of that (someone has to sell). FFP won't be effective for quite some time, I agree. I just hope lobbyism will get weakened and we will eventually have equal financial conditions for all clubs in europe - that said ManCity, Chelsea, PSG etc aren't the only black sheep we have in the scene right now. Clubs like Real Madrid are able to spend significantly more than they earn each year and are allowed to have gigantic debts. If Real Madrid played in the Bundesliga, they would've lost their license already. Here you go regarding the rules in Germany. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 15 2012 19:32 Mandalor wrote: As a fan I have the right to express my opinion, no? I hate these sell-out clubs. We have a small village of 3000 people that has a Bundesliga team now. That is ridiculous. If a sheikh came around and bought Werder Bremen, I would cease to be a fan in no time, I promise you. I'm not a fan of my club because it's successful. Sure, if they're successful I'm happy, but if success was the only reason I support the club, I would rather be a fan of Bayern, Barca or Real Madrid. I'd much rather see Werder play in the lowest leagues than see them bought by a sheikh - and I'm sure that's true for a loooot of supporters. I tried to look up the laws for buying clubs in germany, but couldn't find anything useful. I am, however, quite sure that every club that is not listed in the stock exchange can not be bought without the consent of the club. And even with the stock exchange, that would only be possible if they a) gave out a significant amount of stocks and b) they would have to be able to buy a huge chunk of that (someone has to sell). FFP won't be effective for quite some time, I agree. I just hope lobbyism will get weakened and we will eventually have equal financial conditions for all clubs in europe - that said ManCity, Chelsea, PSG etc aren't the only black sheep we have in the scene right now. Clubs like Real Madrid are able to spend significantly more than they earn each year and are allowed to have gigantic debts. If Real Madrid played in the Bundesliga, they would've lost their license already. Actually Its not just Real Madrid pretty much everyone with a few exceptions in the 3 leagues outside the Bundesliga is running debt. England being by far the biggest culprit as far as aggregate is concerned. You can hate them and like I said its all very easy to sit here and tell me you would hate it and you can pretend to be ambivalent about it all you want because you know its likely never going to happen in a small market, but no one in the history of this world has ever been unhappy if their club finds ways to be successful no one, and if money happens to be one of them .. o well. You cannot have equal financial conditions in football. That simply wont happen, it is night impossible to regulate the game is just to big and way to vast and the big clubs to powerful just within Europe itself. It isnt happening in our time sorry. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51463 Posts
Laudrup takes Swansea reins - Former Denmark international to replace Rodgers Kinda crazy really, but Swansea a nice club for him to start making his move in the Managerial world and becoming a good footballing manager. Source | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:41 Pandemona wrote: Swansea Land Laudrup As Manager Laudrup takes Swansea reins - Former Denmark international to replace Rodgers Kinda crazy really, but Swansea a nice club for him to start making his move in the Managerial world and becoming a good footballing manager. Source Hes already been at the helm of a few clubs and done really well, atleast with the resources available to him. So its not like hes just starting in the managerial world hes been around 4-5 years and his Getafe team back in 07-08 and even the recent Mallorca team went from being garbage to competitive. Mallorca was in particularly bad shape financially and losing players and he kept em up. They made a big deal out of it everytime his teams played RM or Barca, because well the media does that. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51463 Posts
 Competitive league from 1st - 20th compared to the rest. Will get great plaudits if he can continue to make Swansea play good football with limited resources. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:55 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but this is big step up to managing Bronby Mallorca or Getage Competitive league from 1st - 20th compared to the rest. Will get great plaudits if he can continue to make Swansea play good football with limited resources.If you say so. If your seriously telling me managing Swansea is a bigger deal than Mallorca or Getafe or Spartak Moscow then I dont really know what to say.. + Show Spoiler + For starters none of the big 3 leagues were "competitive" all were 2 horse races and from 3rd to the relegation zone La Liga has a smaller point differential than the PL. Teams with 40+ points got relegated. Theres your competitive. I can see why he went there, they already play like he likes his teams to play so he doesnt have to go in and change much and can work with a really really exciting group of players. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51463 Posts
Didn't hear him getting major plaudits for making Spartak Mosccow/Mallorca/Getafe "competitive" | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 15 2012 21:05 Pandemona wrote: Like i say again, he will get plaudits if he continues to make Swansea competitive Didn't hear him getting major plaudits for making Spartak Mosccow/Mallorca/Getafe "competitive"Thats just down to Media hype. Naturally the English media has a far larger reach worldwide then others. and theres nothing wrong with that, thats just how it is. It has little to do with accomplishment. I can fire of a ton of managers who do well in non english leagues that have done way better than or just as well as Rodgers or Lambert and people never hear of them. Actually I think Martinez is better than both but Wigan would fall flat without him. So yes he will get more plaudits but mostly because of hype. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6196 Posts
On June 15 2012 19:32 Mandalor wrote: As a fan I have the right to express my opinion, no? I hate these sell-out clubs. We have a small village of 3000 people that has a Bundesliga team now. That is ridiculous. If a sheikh came around and bought Werder Bremen, I would cease to be a fan in no time, I promise you. I'm not a fan of my club because it's successful. Sure, if they're successful I'm happy, but if success was the only reason I support the club, I would rather be a fan of Bayern, Barca or Real Madrid. I'd much rather see Werder play in the lowest leagues than see them bought by a sheikh - and I'm sure that's true for a loooot of supporters. I tried to look up the laws for buying clubs in germany, but couldn't find anything useful. I am, however, quite sure that every club that is not listed in the stock exchange can not be bought without the consent of the club. And even with the stock exchange, that would only be possible if they a) gave out a significant amount of stocks and b) they would have to be able to buy a huge chunk of that (someone has to sell). FFP won't be effective for quite some time, I agree. I just hope lobbyism will get weakened and we will eventually have equal financial conditions for all clubs in europe - that said ManCity, Chelsea, PSG etc aren't the only black sheep we have in the scene right now. Clubs like Real Madrid are able to spend significantly more than they earn each year and are allowed to have gigantic debts. If Real Madrid played in the Bundesliga, they would've lost their license already. Hmm Real Madrid makes a profit every year they actually don't do so bad. What they do though is take a loan with the players as colleteral but when they buy the player they usually make it back pretty fast. I.E when they bought ROnaldo they made a lot of money from shirt sales but you can't just use it to pay the loan back immedietly that happens over time like any loan. So yeh RM is quite different from clubs like PSG and Chelsea. | ||
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:27 Rebs wrote: Actually Its not just Real Madrid pretty much everyone with a few exceptions in the 3 leagues outside the Bundesliga is running debt. England being by far the biggest culprit as far as aggregate is concerned. You can hate them and like I said its all very easy to sit here and tell me you would hate it and you can pretend to be ambivalent about it all you want because you know its likely never going to happen in a small market, but no one in the history of this world has ever been unhappy if their club finds ways to be successful no one, and if money happens to be one of them .. o well. You cannot have equal financial conditions in football. That simply wont happen, it is night impossible to regulate the game is just to big and way to vast and the big clubs to powerful just within Europe itself. It isnt happening in our time sorry. I don't want this to drag out for much longer, but I just don't get the point where you say that success is the driving factor for fandom for everyone. Why is it then, that there are tons of fans of smaller clubs? Surely it can't be just their success. Most football fans I know, will give the club's history, the athmosphere in the stadium or specific players that play(ed) there as their main reason for why they are a fan of a certain club. Not a single one of them would say it's because they win stuff (not even the Bayern fans I know). I'm not even sure if it's that unlikely for Werder to get a wealthy supporter, afaik the club is in a bad condition financially right now. That doesn't mean I'll support them to take any measure necessary to be in the Champion's League again. A club's success used to be, and should be now imo, based on a number of good decisions in all kinds of areas in past and present - both in sports and financial issues. Why would I be happy with my club's history if what got them to their position is sheer luck? On June 15 2012 21:19 RvB wrote: Hmm Real Madrid makes a profit every year they actually don't do so bad. What they do though is take a loan with the players as colleteral but when they buy the player they usually make it back pretty fast. I.E when they bought ROnaldo they made a lot of money from shirt sales but you can't just use it to pay the loan back immedietly that happens over time like any loan. So yeh RM is quite different from clubs like PSG and Chelsea. Apparently RM changed their behaviour since Peréz is in charge according to wikipedia. I did not know that. The club used to make gigantic debt back in the day. Guess it just wasn't a good example. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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