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So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year.
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On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva  Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3.
England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth.
France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there.
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On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year.
Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy.
In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year.
You have a small point on your league is a feeder league, but dont use the word "stolen" they are bought from your teams fair and square. Benzema Hazard to name a small few to come from France in the past few years, but that is not anyone else but France's leagues fault. If your teams capitalized on the success of Monaco when they reached the final of the champions league beating Chelsea in the semi final your league might of grew stronger, but Monaco themselves fell through financially and sold there whole squad basically and descended down there domestic league. Then you have Lyon who have been "dominate" the past 10 years in the French league and representing France well in the champions league, but them themselves have always been a selling club (like Porto/Benfica) their owners are happy to sell players on for big prices and pocket most of the cash and bring in some more good youngsters till in the end again they sell on for big profit. You can't blame anyone but the way French clubs are run to the chairman's themselves, they sell the players not the fans or manager's
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On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league.
This is the kind of remarks i just expect from a "great club built with blood and tears" fan. Good for you the club you support is so succesfull, this doesn't allow you to look down on me.
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On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there.
Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid.
Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem.
Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool.
Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate.
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On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league.
ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds?
saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate?
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On June 14 2012 23:04 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. You have a small point on your league is a feeder league, but dont use the word "stolen" they are bought from your teams fair and square. Benzema Hazard to name a small few to come from France in the past few years, but that is not anyone else but France's leagues fault. If your teams capitalized on the success of Monaco when they reached the final of the champions league beating Chelsea in the semi final your league might of grew stronger, but Monaco themselves fell through financially and sold there whole squad basically and descended down there domestic league. Then you have Lyon who have been "dominate" the past 10 years in the French league and representing France well in the champions league, but them themselves have always been a selling club (like Porto/Benfica) their owners are happy to sell players on for big prices and pocket most of the cash and bring in some more good youngsters till in the end again they sell on for big profit. You can't blame anyone but the way French clubs are run to the chairman's themselves, they sell the players not the fans or manager's
You are right. But there's reasons why our clubs are unable to keep players:
1) Our clubs CANNOT do crazy shits with the money thay don't have (like basically every other "great" clubs on the planet). The rules are very very strict, half of european football would be relagated in 5th division with the rules we have. This is like a way more strict financial fairplay. And this is a right thing, look at what is happening in spain.
2) The money from TV has a very fair scale. i think this year the top got 40 and 15 for the bottom. Our "big" clubs don't win that much money from TV like in other leagues where the scale can be 10 for 1.
3) France isn't a sport country, and this is our fault. Football is like a bad thing wich corrupts society. Basicaly this is a thing brainless poor ppls watch to past time. And this is the nexus of crimes, like video games and imigration.
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On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate?
1st Rate - England, Spain
2nd Rate - Germany, Italy
3rd Rate - France, Portugal
The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have.
On June 14 2012 23:14 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there. Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid. Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem. Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool. Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate.
We're the 7th most successful club in European Footballl, the most successful English club domestically. We've won European Cup's in 3 seperate decades and made the final in 4 seperate decades.
Aside from Real Madrid no club has been consistant good the entire duration of the post war era and we're no different. Plus even Real went 30 years between European Cups from the Puskas/Gento team to the Raul team.
Only Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern and Juventus have comparable history to Man Utd. The Champions League has never even been won by a French club who didn't cheat.
The only good with Busby/Ferguson comment is frankly retarded as their tenure's span a 45 year period. Since 1945 Ferguson and Busby have been manager for all but 14 years of our history. So what you're basically saying is we've been successful and good for 53 of the 67 years since the war ended.
That's pretty fucking good going imo.
I'm guessing you had no idea quite how long Busby and Ferguson were/are manager of the club for when you made that comment.
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On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:14 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there. Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid. Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem. Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool. Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate. We're the 7th most successful club in European Footballl, the most successful English club domestically. We've won European Cup's in 3 seperate decades and made the final in 4 seperate decades. Aside from Real Madrid no club has been consistant good the entire duration of the post war era and we're no different. Plus even Real went 30 years between European Cups from the Puskas/Gento team to the Raul team. Only Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern and Juventus have comparable history to Man Utd. The Champions League has never even been won by a French club who didn't cheat. \
Yet most of the success is clouted in the last 2 decades. Which was my point. On consistency as far as history the way AOIL was talking about it is concerned atleast domestically thats quite a tier below.
Im not saying United isnt a great club with a history comparable to the greater teams. Im just saying its all very recent in the larger scheme of things.
And frankly this isnt even an argument United as it is now is one of the greatest if not the greatest club in world football over the past 2 decades. And theres nothing wrong with emerging as a dominant team later than others. They are now which is important.
And no I had a very good idea how long theyve been had been around. And honestly im not a big fan of history anyway.
But sure be a fan and be near sighted. Thats what they are supposed to do.
As for the owners. Yes they are terrible. But weve already been through why they came into power in the first place. Cba to dig up posts for that. If your club take over is leveraged by debt and you have financial problems someone in charge did something wrong.
Feel free to blame whoever you will.
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On June 14 2012 23:35 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. On June 14 2012 23:14 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there. Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid. Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem. Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool. Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate. We're the 7th most successful club in European Footballl, the most successful English club domestically. We've won European Cup's in 3 seperate decades and made the final in 4 seperate decades. Aside from Real Madrid no club has been consistant good the entire duration of the post war era and we're no different. Plus even Real went 30 years between European Cups from the Puskas/Gento team to the Raul team. Only Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern and Juventus have comparable history to Man Utd. The Champions League has never even been won by a French club who didn't cheat. \ Yet most of the success is clouted in the last 2 decades. Which was my point. On consistency as far as history is concerned atleast domestically thats quite a tier below. Im not saying United isnt a great club with a history comparable to the greater teams. Im just saying its all very recent in the larger scheme of things. And frankly this isnt even an argument United as it is now is one of the greatest if not the greatest club in world football over the past 2 decades. And theres nothing wrong with emerging as a dominant team later than others. They are now which is important. As for the owners. Yes they are terrible. But weve already been through why they came into power in the first place. Cba to dig up posts for that.
We'd still won 5 League titles, 5 FA Cups and 1 European Cup in the post war period before Ferguson took charge. That's better than every English club except Liverpool.
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On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have.
Ah, can I just enquire what you would rate for example Holland (6th rate?), Serbia (14th rate?) you have a bit too big scale overall, unless of course you're total elitist and you think the rest just isn't football
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On June 14 2012 23:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:35 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. On June 14 2012 23:14 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On June 14 2012 19:42 AIOL! wrote:Modric wll come with us in Paris wit his new mate Thiago Silva Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ? And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there. Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid. Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem. Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool. Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate. We're the 7th most successful club in European Footballl, the most successful English club domestically. We've won European Cup's in 3 seperate decades and made the final in 4 seperate decades. Aside from Real Madrid no club has been consistant good the entire duration of the post war era and we're no different. Plus even Real went 30 years between European Cups from the Puskas/Gento team to the Raul team. Only Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern and Juventus have comparable history to Man Utd. The Champions League has never even been won by a French club who didn't cheat. \ Yet most of the success is clouted in the last 2 decades. Which was my point. On consistency as far as history is concerned atleast domestically thats quite a tier below. Im not saying United isnt a great club with a history comparable to the greater teams. Im just saying its all very recent in the larger scheme of things. And frankly this isnt even an argument United as it is now is one of the greatest if not the greatest club in world football over the past 2 decades. And theres nothing wrong with emerging as a dominant team later than others. They are now which is important. As for the owners. Yes they are terrible. But weve already been through why they came into power in the first place. Cba to dig up posts for that. We'd still won 5 League titles, 5 FA Cups and 1 European Cup in the post war period before Ferguson took charge. That's better than every English club except Liverpool.
And none of those other clubs are in the discussion for great histories. Were talking about in the context of the teams you compared them to ..go for it. Start counting. I perhaps worded it poorly when i say domestically I meant how those clubs did in their own leagues.
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On June 14 2012 23:43 anomalopidae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Ah, can I just enquire what you would rate for example Holland (6th rate?), Serbia (14th rate?) you have a bit too big scale overall, unless of course you're total elitist and you think the rest just isn't football
There is a clear and marked difference between England/Spain and Italy/Germany, then again between them and Portugal/France.
Holland is a weird league because PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Twente are decent enough teams who could finish mid table in Germany but the lower end Eredvisie teams are absolutely horrendous. Leagues from small countries like Portugal, Scotland and Holland usually have huge gaps between the best and worst teams which makes it hard to rank them.
I obviously do not watch any Serbian football so I don't know how good/bad they are.
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France League is on Par with the portuguese league... The average level is better in the french league, but the top teams (Benfica and Porto) are better than the French top teams (with an exception to Lyon in the last 10 years..)
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On June 14 2012 23:44 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:35 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. On June 14 2012 23:14 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:28 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 22:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:08 Rebs wrote:On June 14 2012 19:49 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:
[quote]
Man City 2 is disgusting. Didn't you backed your investor for being reasonable ?
And now i hear a 50€ mil. bid for Thiago Silva and 40€ mil. bid for Modric ? To me those clubs are the reason for inflated transfer tags in current football. It was only a matter of time, smart business in the end only gets you a team like the one Wenger makes and we all know those dont win trophies. Although why anyone would be "disgusted" by it is beyond me. Those players arent leaving those clubs for lesser fees. The market is just really inflated. Paris has money they want to spend it let them spend it. The inflated transfer tags started a while ago, but yes keeping the trend going doesnt help. The thing is Man City, Chelsea and Malaga (which is a mini Man City of sorts) all play in top leagues. PSG play in the 5th best league in the world and the biggest stars will in most cases (Thiago Silva exempting) be unwilling to go there no matter the money. Now obviously it helps that A) France produces a lot of great players they will essentially now have a monopoly on and B) Paris is a beautiful and desirable city far more so than Manchester is. But I still don't see the likes of Gotze, Falcao, Modric and the other best players in the world not already playing for a big club moving to play for PSG over Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea. PSG will destroy the French league from now until the money runs out of that I have no doubt, but they'll always be handicapped by the inferior league they play in. Which is why to me they're a really odd investment over the likes of Milan/Inter/Juventus/Roma/Lazio/Arsenal/Tottenham who would surely all have been better buys for the owners. I'd say its the best outside the big 3. England, Italy, Germany and Spain all have far, far better leagues than France with a lot more strength in depth. France's woeful performances in the Champions League and Uefa Cup show there's a lack of quality there. Oh sorry I dont know why I said it was better than Germany that was stupid. Regardless making a league attractive has to start somewhere and if PSG getting money helps do that I dont see the problem. Additionally Uniteds "history" is about 2 decades old as far as being a major club is concerned. Otherwise and this ofcourse a big otherwise is no better than an Everton or a Liverpool. Outside of the Busby and Fergie era I dont see to much in terms of being a great club. Every club has a history some more so than others but suggesting United have been all that for the greater part of the last century isnt particularly accurate. We're the 7th most successful club in European Footballl, the most successful English club domestically. We've won European Cup's in 3 seperate decades and made the final in 4 seperate decades. Aside from Real Madrid no club has been consistant good the entire duration of the post war era and we're no different. Plus even Real went 30 years between European Cups from the Puskas/Gento team to the Raul team. Only Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern and Juventus have comparable history to Man Utd. The Champions League has never even been won by a French club who didn't cheat. \ Yet most of the success is clouted in the last 2 decades. Which was my point. On consistency as far as history is concerned atleast domestically thats quite a tier below. Im not saying United isnt a great club with a history comparable to the greater teams. Im just saying its all very recent in the larger scheme of things. And frankly this isnt even an argument United as it is now is one of the greatest if not the greatest club in world football over the past 2 decades. And theres nothing wrong with emerging as a dominant team later than others. They are now which is important. As for the owners. Yes they are terrible. But weve already been through why they came into power in the first place. Cba to dig up posts for that. We'd still won 5 League titles, 5 FA Cups and 1 European Cup in the post war period before Ferguson took charge. That's better than every English club except Liverpool. And none of those other clubs are in the discussion for great histories. Were talking about in the context of the teams you compared them to ..go for it. Start counting. I perhaps worded it poorly when i say domestically I meant how those clubs did in their own leagues.
Pre Ferguson we were obviously not the giant of the game we are today but we were still a team with a solid history and a team for whom some of the all time greats of the game had played (Charlton, Best, Law). Despite not being a giant we were the second biggest team in one of the most successful leagues in footballing history to that point.
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On June 14 2012 23:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:43 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Ah, can I just enquire what you would rate for example Holland (6th rate?), Serbia (14th rate?) you have a bit too big scale overall, unless of course you're total elitist and you think the rest just isn't football There is a clear and marked difference between England/Spain and Italy/Germany, then again between them and Portugal/France. Holland is a weird league because PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Twente are decent enough teams who could finish mid table in Germany but the lower end Eredvisie teams are absolutely horrendous. Leagues from small countries like Portugal, Scotland and Holland usually have huge gaps between the best and worst teams which makes it hard to rank them. I obviously do not watch any Serbian football so I don't know how good/bad they are.
It's just funny that you would rate Spain above Italy and Germany when Spanish league has pretty terrible quality with 2 top teams and then a huge gap to get to the rest. Myself I'd rate at least Italy on par with England
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On June 14 2012 23:50 anomalopidae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:43 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Ah, can I just enquire what you would rate for example Holland (6th rate?), Serbia (14th rate?) you have a bit too big scale overall, unless of course you're total elitist and you think the rest just isn't football There is a clear and marked difference between England/Spain and Italy/Germany, then again between them and Portugal/France. Holland is a weird league because PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Twente are decent enough teams who could finish mid table in Germany but the lower end Eredvisie teams are absolutely horrendous. Leagues from small countries like Portugal, Scotland and Holland usually have huge gaps between the best and worst teams which makes it hard to rank them. I obviously do not watch any Serbian football so I don't know how good/bad they are. It's just funny that you would rate Spain above Italy and Germany when Spanish league has pretty terrible quality with 2 top teams and then a huge gap to get to the rest. Myself I'd rate at least Italy on par with England
Absolutely wrong. Athletico, Malaga, Valencia and Bilbao are all excellent teams.
You only need to look at the phenomenal performance of the Spanish teams in the UEFA Cup year in year out (5 of the last 10 winners were Spanish) to see that the also rans of Spain are actually really good teams. This years UEFA Cup had 3/4 semi finalists from Spain even.
Just look at the results of the knockouts of the Uefa Cup.
Valencia 2-0 Stoke
Athletico 4-1 Lazio
Bilbao 5-3 Man Utd
Bilbao 6-4 Schalke
Athletico 4-2 Hannover
Clearly the Spanish upper middle sides are more than a match for their German/Italian/English equivalents.
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On June 14 2012 23:50 anomalopidae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 23:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:43 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 23:15 anomalopidae wrote:On June 14 2012 23:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 14 2012 22:54 AIOL! wrote:
So because in the past ten years our club was run poorly, we are forbiden to build a great project. PSG just tries to be at the place it should be right now.
And the idea you all have of the french league is just false. This is not a crappy league, we have an overall good level, the problem is that every top players we have goes in foreign championships.
Our middle table is not weaker than in Serie A - Bundesliga or Liga BBVA but our "top" clubs are unable to keep there key players because they are all stolen.
When it works in that way nobody cries but now we have a club with a great project the other way can't be done without a shit-storm of fanboys tears. this is just crazy.
We don't want to buy the entire planet like Mancity we just want 3 or 4 key players to be able to compete properly in CL next year. Frankly I don't care about PSG because my local club (Man Utd) is a far better club in terms of players and history and run off the back of legitimate earnings and decades of self sufficincy. In no way at all am I jealous of PSG buying success in a third rate league. ah, yet your great club still manages to have debt of 500 million pounds? saying French league is 3rd rate is really ignorant as well, they're what? 5th best yet you grade them as 3rd rate? 1st Rate - England, Spain 2nd Rate - Germany, Italy 3rd Rate - France, Portugal The debt is the fault of our owners. Manchester United football club is a profitable business, we do not ever spend more than we have. Ah, can I just enquire what you would rate for example Holland (6th rate?), Serbia (14th rate?) you have a bit too big scale overall, unless of course you're total elitist and you think the rest just isn't football There is a clear and marked difference between England/Spain and Italy/Germany, then again between them and Portugal/France. Holland is a weird league because PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Twente are decent enough teams who could finish mid table in Germany but the lower end Eredvisie teams are absolutely horrendous. Leagues from small countries like Portugal, Scotland and Holland usually have huge gaps between the best and worst teams which makes it hard to rank them. I obviously do not watch any Serbian football so I don't know how good/bad they are. It's just funny that you would rate Spain above Italy and Germany when Spanish league has pretty terrible quality with 2 top teams and then a huge gap to get to the rest. Myself I'd rate at least Italy on par with England
This season Spain had two teams in Champion's League semis and three teams in Europa League semi's.
All leagues have bad teams below the top teams...
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I only watch Serie A, Bundesliga and Ligue1 (and sometimes Barca-Real). I cannot watch PL, this makes me sick, this league is too much hyped. There's so many average players who get fucking hyped, I'll only take the french ones, Evra and Nasri (and sagna when he's not injured) suck awfully when they play for France but since they are in PL they can't go on the bench. When i see Evra as the ManU's captain this makes me laugh.
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EPT
