EPT2011-2012 football (soccer) thread - Page 297
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
Chec is a god damn monster. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
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Malaz
Germany1257 Posts
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Daray
6006 Posts
 ) and isn't as good as people think he is. His decision making and game reading is poor at times, ok technique but really nothing special and just scoring a few goals that most people in top teams would score aswell if given the chance. Am i the only one who thinks this?  | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On a related note : Picture of drogba in the tunnel at Half time tday. ![[image loading]](https://p.twimg.com/AqykVIjCIAMKrwI.jpg) | ||
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mAKiTO
Colombia4177 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:10 Stratos_speAr wrote: I think more of the hate you see towards Barca/the Spanish national team isn't their play alone - obviously they play an incredible game. It's the personalities/diving/theatrics/endless money that just buys a great team/etc. that come along with it. It's just hard for a lot of people to really put their finger on it and describe exactly what turns them off, so they come up with some pretty sub-par explanations for their dislike of Barca. Look I can appreciate grievances like theatrics and such, those are perfectly reasonable problems they have. They have faults sure no one will argue that. They begrudgingly call it the best team in the world, accept it as superior football and then go on to say its boring. The contradiction slaps you in the face. Ill tell you what turns people of them. Jealousy. its just that simple. They might not want to admit it but they know it. We all know when the galacticos were winning CL every other year and I wont say dominating but atleast edging out and outperforming Barca in classicos how annoying it was. Fucking Zidane and Figo and money and shit. Everyone bitched about it, abroad to. I did it , and I'll admit being a stupid young teen. Fact is they were better because they played better football, end of discussion Then English clubs started playing with money to and it was all ok. Stuff like "I dont lieke theyre style" "keeping the football is douchey tactics" This all absolute bull fucking shit. Its raw jealousy. Tomorow if their teams start playing like that theyll be fucking singing praises like you wouldn't believe. Its pathetic when people do this. They are human and theyre play has a weakness, its that they never stop trying to win. And other teams, OTHER teams not they, stifle the game to prevent that. I promise you if Chelsea starts commiting men forward to try and nick the ball past the half consistently they will get cut to ribbons. They might create more chances themselves and even score more goals then now. But they will be absolutely shredded with the space they will leave behind. And fair play to them thats how they should play they dont have the offensive firepower that a Real or even an Arsenal have. But criticising Barca for that is just base hypocracy. Everyone knew how this game was going to play more than 5-6 people called it here alone. And its Barca's fault its that way for being good. Give me a fucking break. It infuriates me because they do the same thing in other sports that Im connected with and its the same logic always. If something is happening that "we" cant do its obviously not good for the game. "Oh we can do it to? Now its art.." | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
.Rebs, if Chelsea wanted to play Barca's game they would have to CHANGE THE ENTIRE TEAM don't you get it? Asking for teams like Chelsea to start pressing Barca is completely misunderstanding the physical possibilities of the team. Barcelona are currently about as close to a perfect finesse team as you can imagine. You just can't play their game unless you get players like them. Granted they have put together an absolute beast of a game winning machine but it doesn't mean I have to like them. They bore me and their football is boring. If Barcelona were 10th in la liga I would still hate tiki taka. On April 19 2012 08:15 Twisted wrote: I must say Rebs, I always agree 100% with your posts. Yeah go figure, you both are in love with barca. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On another note, I thought the game atmosphere today was great. Teams were very friendly towards eachother. The only one that played douchey as fuck was Drogba but aside from that, friendliness all around. Just another example that Barça doesn't play-act much at all when the game is friendly. Someone even called out an ITV commentator mentioning that Messi is one of the most honest players around. He is. Quite possibly the most honest (prolific) player around anyway. He looks like a little happy kid that never wants to quit no matter how many times he's kicked to the ground. | ||
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
Spain play in a similar style, and I can't remember a time when a national team played like they do. With so many players from so few teams of course they know each other's styles well. And I can honestly say I haven't seen such a boring world cup as the last one, and the Euros weren't much better. Spain are the best national team in the world, and Barca are the best club team in the world for the same reason - that tiki-taka passing style, holding the ball and doing not a lot with it. It's not a contradiction to say that they have basically made themselves simultaneously the best team in the world and one of the most boring top teams out there. Hell, I've had more fun watching Swansea this year and Blackpool last year - they played their hearts out, were, often outclassed but never boring by their willingness to take risks and attack. Barca press, and they pass, and every now and again some skill gets them a goal. Spain press and pass, but because they don't have Messi, they score far less regularly, so they just press and pass again. Tactically supreme but visually boring. See how that works? But yeah, for me it's the hypocritical nature of the team and players themselves, with the apparent bias towards them in Europe. Barca players dive all over the pitch, complain about every.fucking.decision that goes against them, no matter how obviously their player just fouled someone, and bitch and moan when things don't go their way. I respect Barca for the amazing job they've done in developing talent and players from all over the world, but I hate their on-pitch attitude. For the same reason I hated Ronaldo when he first came to England, since he was diving all over the shop. Fergie managed to grind most of that out of him, because like a lot of Brits he thinks diving is pretty pathetic. I hate seeing skilled, top players, no matter their nationality (looking at you, Ashley Young), taking a dive because they can't trust their own skills to get the results. I hate the gamesmanship shown by Suarez on a regular basis (his celebration when Gyan missed that penalty was particularly galling) though I think he's a very skilled player. It's a matter of attitude for me - Balotelli is a great player but I would never want to see him on any team I support, because his attitude is awful. I suspect that a lot of people hate Barca for the same reason - bunch of fantastically skilled prima donnas bitching and moaning every time the ref calls them on a foul or a dive. | ||
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
Lol love this mentality. Bring up countless logical points = LOL BARCA FANBOYZ!!!! | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On April 19 2012 08:01 Rebs wrote: Look I can appreciate grievances like theatrics and such, those are perfectly reasonable problems they have. They have faults sure no one will argue that. They begrudgingly call it the best team in the world, accept it as superior football and then go on to say its boring. The contradiction slaps you in the face. Ill tell you what turns people of them. Jealousy. its just that simple. They might not want to admit it but they know it. We all know when the galacticos were winning CL every other year and I wont say dominating but atleast edging out and outperforming Barca in classicos how annoying it was. Fucking Zidane and Figo and money and shit. Everyone bitched about it, abroad to. I did it , and I'll admit being a stupid young teen. Fact is they were better because they played better football, end of discussion Then English clubs started playing with money to and it was all ok. Stuff like "I dont lieke theyre style" "keeping the football is douchey tactics" This all absolute bull fucking shit. Its raw jealousy. Tomorow if their teams start playing like that theyll be fucking singing praises like you wouldn't believe. Its pathetic when people do this. They are human and theyre play has a weakness, its that they never stop trying to win. And other teams, OTHER teams not they, stifle the game to prevent that. I promise you if Chelsea starts commiting men forward to try and nick the ball past the half consistently they will get cut to ribbons. They might create more chances themselves and even score more goals then now. But they will be absolutely shredded with the space they will leave behind. And fair play to them thats how they should play they dont have the offensive firepower that a Real or even an Arsenal have. But criticising Barca for that is just base hypocracy. Everyone knew how this game was going to play more than 5-6 people called it here alone. And its Barca's fault its that way for being good. Give me a fucking break. It infuriates me because they do the same thing in other sports that Im connected with and its the same logic always. If something is happening that "we" cant do its obviously not good for the game. "Oh we can do it to? Now its art.." I don't believe it's superior football, there is no such thing as superior football. Many teams play differently, if Barca's play was the superior style of football they would win every game hands down because they are the best at it, but that's not how the game works. I've said it before in this thread, the reason Football is so beautiful is because there is no "right" way to play the game, there are hundreds. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On April 19 2012 08:15 Twisted wrote: On another note, I thought the game atmosphere today was great. Teams were very friendly towards eachother. The only one that played douchey as fuck was Drogba but aside from that, friendliness all around. Just another example that Barça doesn't play-act much at all when the game is friendly. I think it's more of the fact that there's still a 2nd leg to be played. I wouldn't bet against some Oscar nominee quality acting once the clock starts ticking in the Camp Nou. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:23 Daray wrote: Chelsea played like you have to play if you want to have a chance against Barca. It can be quite boring with Barca having 70-80% ball possession and trying to break the great wall of China. Obviously Chelsea was lucky today and the score could've been 0(1) - 2-3 easily. I really don't see what is special about Sanchez though. I seriously believe that he has been running above expectation (in poker terms ) and isn't as good as people think he is. His decision making and game reading is poor at times, ok technique but really nothing special and just scoring a few goals that most people in top teams would score aswell if given the chance. Am i the only one who thinks this? as a mexican with a huge understanding of the ins and outs of latin football. I was shocked and appalled to find that Alexi sanchez is even on the team even more so when I found out he's chilean, not a big footballing nation, (my opinion... crappy nation that never makes a strong stance in COMBOEL let alone the world cup) they could put anyone else in front up there and yet I only see him start for the big games, he's literally no one special, I just gotta ask Pep why. also agree with your game thoughts too. I only saw the 1st half due to having to go to class but chelsea had like 10 men behind the ball and got that 1 lucky break, i jumped for joy not only for Ramires looking sexy with the pass but also Drogba knocking it in, while he was in pain the entire half. quick recap of 2 half? was it scary and based on the pic I'm guessing drogba was subbed between halves? | ||
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
On April 19 2012 08:39 snarl wrote: I think it's more of the fact that there's still a 2nd leg to be played. I wouldn't bet against some Oscar nominee quality acting once the clock starts ticking in the Camp Nou. I laughed at this i expect to see a lot of diving and cheating from both sides in the next match i personally think the way barca play is brilliant, its not the fact they keep the ball, its the fact they SWARM on the other team when they loose it, almost like kids in a playground, if somebody developed a decent long ball strat they would crush barca simply because they stick 5 men around the ball the second they loose it ! i think chelsea showed everybody in football that barca have a very limmited attack which is either try and run through the middle to beat people or win free kicks in shooting areas.. they almost never crossed it in and it was funny to see them getting desperate near the end of the game and forcing bad passes.. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands4015 Posts
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On April 19 2012 08:39 Megatronn wrote: I've said it before in this thread, the reason Football is so beautiful is because there is no "right" way to play the game, there are hundreds. Yeah this is bang on...I don't see why I am not allowed to hate one particular way or style? The current Barcelona way is NOT the new way all teams must play or they will die. That's total bullshit. Barca have a good set of players right now, in a wonderful time for Spanish football. Their style will only continue in this pure tiki taka style if they can recruit some new players to fill the xavi, iniesta and possibly pique puyol busquets roles. I just prefer the RM style of play. I even like how aggressive and physical they are, of course I don't like injuries but I do like aggressive play, I like people to get 'stuck in' as we English call it. Oh and the kicker is that I used to support Barca when I was a kid, I even had a Barca top and knew the team around 1996. I just fell out of love with them since this modern period. I feel like Rebs and Twisted think that it's IMPOSSIBLE not to like the most dominant team, you HAVE to like the best team because..they are the best..and if you don't...you're jealous. FUck that, I've always hated stupid Man U if they are dominant or if they are slumping, and I've always hated tiki taka football, even when the Spanish national team was a permanent joke that hadn't won the WC and always choked. Why can't we all agree that we can hate different styles of play? For example even if Napoli beat us I wouldn't say their style of play is crap because I LOVE the way Napoli play. And AC Milan. They have a cool mix of pace, power and agression. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
And yes there's no right way to play football. Teams play according to their players strengths and general club philosophy. Chelsea is a weak team, or at least much much weaker than Barca, so if they played them head on it would just be embarrasing for them. I have learned that all too well,8 years ago on the euro cup, when my national team won it by playing a brilliant defensive style. If we tried to play against france or portugal in a more orthododx way we would be out in the group stage. The difference is that, strong teams enforce their style of play over weaker teams. The only option for Chelsea was to play disgustingly passive or get stomped. There's no other way. And to the people that say they don't like tikitaka, what the hell is wrong with you? xP | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
I think, I myself have praised the likes of Swansea and Blackpool (even Wigan) for their varying styles more than anyone here. As for Barca I feel again as I mentioned your criticism is misguided and one sided. They do not hold onto the ball because they dislike going forward. They do it because frankly most of the time theres nowhere to go.. What do you want them to do, give it away ? If teams are going to fall back then you have to tiki taka, its called probing. Theres nowhere to go, ever tried playing 8 a side on a 5 a side field? Thats how what its like for them. Incredibly high risk and even more difficult. Teams offer to much respect because they just arent good enough, them passing it around like that is an unfortunate consequence. Pretty sure Xavi and Busquets alone have more forward passes this season than the Chelsea team combined I do not care that you dislike tiki taka, What troubles me is the reasoning, which no matter how you may slice it, word it or mask semantically boils down to a pathetic "they are too good, its no fun to watch them. Its their fault football its boring," It amazes me that you can actually put the blame on the team thats not putting 10 men behind the ball. Dont you see how ridiculous that sounds ? Instead of Barca complaining that everyone sits back, people are arguing their tactics are douchey because they pass the ball well. It just doesnt make any sense. Im saying thats the case because no one tries to go at them (Valencia 2-2 a team that actually bothered playing, to win watch the game, you will not find more entertaining football this season.) Its an accepted fact that teams put 10 behind the ball because they cant play football (tiki taka long ball call it whatever you want) as well. Pretty sure if Barca ever had the opportunity they could play better long balls forward and that hit runners like Messi and Sanchez better than anyone, even go on the wings and cross it better than anyone "when there is space". Thats precisely what other teams want to avoid. The thought of Messi running at just 2 or 3 defenders from the half line onwards scares the motherfucking shit out of people. And thats the truth. My main claim is Barcelona can do everything those other teams do (aside from blindly crossing it in and praying, that is a weakness absolutely, but you cant be perfect.) and then some. They just never get the chance. Its pretty sad really. Its like I'm teaching football to kids. Theres being biased and then theres just flat out bigotry. Ignoring that the other team is stifling the game and putting the blame on "tiki taka". Just say it. I hate them because they are too good. The only teams that have actually played aggresive football against Barcelona in the last few years in Europe have been United and Arsenal. One of which was just not good enough at playing a free flowing game against Barca, and the other was at times pretty good, hung in there really well for a game. Then went into a shell the second game followed by an aweful decision that ruined the tie. ATM RM is the only team talented enough to break out of their presses consistently and hurt them. But then they lose so they go back to playing like everyone else. Ill take your example Napoli plays with a front 3. Thats really their entire offense, most of the time. You dont think Barca could do just that with Messi alone, If teams crawled out of their boxes? Your putting the blame for this on Barca which is grossly unfair. As for Real Madrids style. Teams will play conservatively against them (in the league alot more next season). They will be just as boring to watch sadly. Say they dive, they are theatrical (although after Drogba yesterday I dont think anyone has the right to do that anymore) or that they swarm referees and know how to tip decisions and those are valid criticisms for which I could point out reasons to but those would be debatable. Note "reasons" not "justifications". Nothing can justify that sort of behavior. Say you hate them because the teams against is not good enough flat out admit it and I dont have a problem. Say you hate them because theyre football is not entertaining. Well thats just not their fault now is it. So far the only argument the likes of Sc4uk provide is I hate "dominant" teams. You betrayed your real feelings here. But then you mask it with the idea that a dominant teams football sucks. No no little Sc4uk. The dominant team's football does not suck. Its just your team that cant hang with it and makes it boring. Ill just quote Twisted here because really nothing more should be needed but somehow it doesnt get through to people. "It takes two teams to play a great game." edit: On April 19 2012 05:53 Sated wrote: This is exactly why Barcelona would have problems on a rainy night in Stoke. /trollface EDIT: Wow, really? I got warned for this in a non-serious thread... User was warned for this post I dont understand why this is a warning either. Its actually true. | ||
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