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England3228 Posts
On December 30 2011 07:51 Tazza wrote: Being the most underrated player doesn't make him the best. Are u really saying he'd be equal to pele, maradona, or messi? heskie might be a great player, but he doesn't belong inthe conversation of GOAT you should have just watched the video... | ||
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
![[image loading]](http://news.arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/henryspurs.jpg) HAIL THE KING! | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On December 30 2011 07:46 Tazza wrote: I'm not just comparing world cup. Look at the south American cup(whatever they call it) this year. Messi isn't scoring because he doesn't have Xavi and iniesta. His goal scoring rate at international level is far below his rate at club level. Maybe I will change my mind when argentina starts winning, or if messi goes to another team and scores 50 goals per season like he does at barca. I know he is very young and has ample time to prove me wrong. But right now, pele and maradona were better imo It's not just that he doesn't have Xavi/Iniesta behind him (although obviously it helps to have those guys at his back to set him up), it's because he plays a very different role in the Argentine squad. They hardly have any good offensive midfielders so Messi has to fill the roll of Xavi/Iniesta in the Argentine squad. Whenever you watch a game by Argentina, he has to set up EVERY attack from defense to attack. He doesn't get into a scoring position much because he plays an attacking midfielder position in the Argentine squad. Messi is without a doubt the most important contributer to Barça's success in the last few years. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
Malouda, unhappy with minutes at Chelsea, might hand in a transfer request to reunite with him there. In a more far-out rumor, they could also make a large bid for an unhappy Pato. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
Controversial Manchester City star Mario Balotelli enjoyed another late night before a big game - but this time it was at midnight mass, after enjoying a booze-free trip to a local pub and treating everyone to a round of drinks. The Italian was joined by his girlfriend Raffaella Fico at St John's church in Chorlton, Manchester, on Christmas Eve and he shocked onlookers by putting £200 on the collection plate as he left. Balotelli was then asked by the reverend if he would join the church in providing a drop-in Christmas dinner for the homeless on Christmas Day. 'Nobody could believe it when he walked in,' an onlooker said. 'The last thing anyone expected was a big celebrity like him turning up for the service but he was very polite and charming and didn't draw attention to himself.' Balotelli has become something of a cult figure since moving to England from Italy. He has been involved in training ground punch-ups, arguments with the manager and even tussles with playing bibs. There were even rumours last week on Twitter that he was driving around Manchester dressed as Santa Claus throwing money out of his car. While this speculation turned out to be untrue, Balotelli did show his generous side by putting £1,000 behind the bar at the Tudor pub in Peel Hall earlier on Christmas Eve. He chatted to drinkers and had photos taken before then heading off to the church service. http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddballs/885872-mario-balotelli-buys-entire-pub-a-drink-before-200-midnight-mass-donation#ixzz1hp8jJGDA | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
On December 30 2011 12:46 Twisted wrote: It's not just that he doesn't have Xavi/Iniesta behind him (although obviously it helps to have those guys at his back to set him up), it's because he plays a very different role in the Argentine squad. They hardly have any good offensive midfielders so Messi has to fill the roll of Xavi/Iniesta in the Argentine squad. Whenever you watch a game by Argentina, he has to set up EVERY attack from defense to attack. He doesn't get into a scoring position much because he plays an attacking midfielder position in the Argentine squad. Messi is without a doubt the most important contributer to Barça's success in the last few years. i agree that messi is the most important player for barca, but it still doesn't make him the greatest player ever. Argentina is famous for creating "number 10" and "number 5" player roles. This is why there are so many players like javier mascherano, ever banega, cambiasso, and more. These players are defensive midfielders designed to stop the number 10, which is why argentina, as you mentioned, doesn't have many offensive midfielders. However, argentina has tried on many occasions to play like barca, and uses the same formation barca does, and puts messi in the false number 9 role. Argentina usually doesn't put messi in the hole in a true #10 role, or on the wings. Even with all this, messi fails to score many goals internationally. Yes, there are a dearth of offensive midfielders for argentina, but this is exactly my point. Pele and maradona would score with anyone. maradona played in argentina, where there have historically been a lack of offensive midfielders, but he still managed to win a world cup almost single-handedly(pun intended). Even if messi didn't score many goals for argentina, but managed to win by creating loads of goals like you said, i might be more open to the idea that he might be the best of all time. However, argentina haven't been doing well, and you can't blame it on the lack of talent. The squad is stacked. Until messi does well internationally and argentina start winning some trophies, i will never believe that messi is the best of all time | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
Also: However, argentina haven't been doing well, and you can't blame it on the lack of talent. The squad is stacked. Defense is pretty much the problem and a bit of luck as well. If I remember correctly Messi hit the post like 4-5 times in the last WC? With a bit more luck he would've scored like 5 goals. I don't think you can compare the players from those kind of era's to players now but you can say that in the time Messi does it (right now) is more impressive. At least it is to me. If he passes 5 guys with excellent physique/stamina etc. it's more impressive than Pele who passed 5 players with beerguts from Saudi-Arabia. It's all subjective anyway, but to me, Messi is the all time best without a doubt. | ||
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Purple Haze
United Kingdom200 Posts
And on a sidenote, Heskey is an awful, gutless player, and when he had the chance at a top club he spent most of his time limping around and making puppy eyes at the bench after the first time anyone tackled him in almost every game. | ||
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
 It's not fair because even though he crushes ~60 games a year for 4 years, then on the fourth year the world cup comes around and his country never is able to make it and people diminish him based on that? not cool...edit: teams practice with their clubs all year. the only have a small time frame to practice with their nations which usually are at least different than what theyre used to. you can't expect players to lead entire teams on their shoulders anymore nowadays. the defense is too strong. more tactical awareness, less space allowed, no pointless slide tackling/commiting oneself, like they used to do in the past when pele was around (not so much maradona, but still to a degree the defense was lacking big time back then) Not to mention that the world cup isn't even the top level anymore. Like the above poster said, that way of thinking is incredibly outdated. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On December 30 2011 07:46 Tazza wrote: I'm not just comparing world cup. Look at the south American cup(whatever they call it) this year. Messi isn't scoring because he doesn't have Xavi and iniesta. His goal scoring rate at international level is far below his rate at club level. Maybe I will change my mind when argentina starts winning, or if messi goes to another team and scores 50 goals per season like he does at barca. I know he is very young and has ample time to prove me wrong. But right now, pele and maradona were better imo Thats because Messi takes the role of Xavi/Iniesta for Argentina. I watched a lot of their games and he pretty much drops back while the game is going on to help in the midfield constantly. Even helping in defense when its needed. Its extremely unfair to judge him solely on his goal-scoring statistic when that's not his main function for arg. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
But since he comes from a huge football nation with lots of other talents, there will always be questions why argentina underperforms in competitive with him if they will continue doing so (tell me if you disagree and yes, I know about his youth world cup and olympic gold medals). Fact is, being eliminated at quarter-finals in World Cup is regarded as failure in every big football nation. Not winning Copa America (at home 2011) is regarded as failure. But nobody can seriously expect him to pull another '86 Maradona today. And also he has at least 2 WCs and 2 Copas left. If he continues to play like he does now and wins at least one of those tournaments, he deserves to be called the best ever. We should not compare Messi the accomplishments of player who has the bigger half of his career yet to play with accomplishments earned in full careers. But I also have to say IF Messi's argentina doesnt win a title or even keeps loosing to first big name they meet in a big tournament, this should rightfully put shadow on his career and keep him away from being called "the best ever". But dicussing this now and not in ten years is somewhat of a futile discussion. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
Its impossible for a single player to "guide" a whole team to glory. It didn't happened with Maradona with Argentina and not even in his time at Napoli which were not a bunch of scrubs like some people make it out to be, they had some amazing players. but meh thats just my opinion. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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EchoZ
Japan5041 Posts
On December 31 2011 23:35 sixfour wrote: lol united God I'm so pissed at De Gea. | ||
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
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Lovedrop
2629 Posts
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
I'm surprised Pogba wasn't given a chance to play with the midfield injury situation and rumors that he's growing anxious from not seeing action. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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divinesage
Singapore649 Posts
AND RVP BROKE HENRY'S RECORD!! WOOHOO! THIRTY FIVE | ||
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