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Hong Kong9151 Posts
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Move 11 Votes
+ Show Spoiler [Voters] +11. Qxc6+: 17 (Raysalis, qrs, Bill Murray, hp.Shell, shackes, EnderSword, Chezus, chesshaha, Ikari, jdseemoreglass, Cloud9157, itsjustatank, Malli, Mash2, hp.Shell, RAGEMOAR The Pope, wizard944, aphorism, Xog, Bill Murray, TehForce, stormtemplar)
11. Qxa7: 7 (qrs, hp.Shell, Soluhwin, Mash2, keyStorm, Archers_bane, Bill Murray, mastergriggy, BaronFel, LaXerCannon)
11. 0-0: 8 (EvilNalu, timh, Malinor, wuBu, Blazinghand, Mash2, shackes, MrStorkie)
11. a3: 1 (mcc)
Move 12 Votes
+ Show Spoiler [Voters] +11. Qxd7+: 21 (EvilNalu, hype[NZ], dtvu, Bill Murray, Ikari, qrs, mastergriggy, wuBu, keyStorm, chesshaha, jdseemoreglass, Cloud9157, Mash2, hp.Shell, timh, aphorism, Raysalis, Malinor, Chezus, Tehforce, itsjustatank)
11. Qc2: 1 (Bill Murray, wizard944)
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On September 26 2011 14:15 EvilNalu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 13:35 mastergriggy wrote:On September 26 2011 12:50 EvilNalu wrote:Let's start talking about our 13th move, assuming he plays + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +Most people seem to want to go down a line like 13. a3 Bxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 in the hopes of holding onto the extra pawn. I think this is a mistake. White will end up totally paralyzed after 15...Rb3 16. Re1 0-0 17. Re3 Rfb8 18. Rc3 R8b7. There does not seem to be any productive move white can play to get his rook and bishop into the action. Black will activate his king and it will probably be impossible for white to hold onto the pawn in the long run. I think we should play 13. 0-0 (finally). I think black has two critical options: 13...Nxd2 (I guess Bxd2 is the same) and 13...Bb5. Bb5 is probably weaker as it places his bishop on his open b file, making it easier for white to maintain his extra pawn. After 14. Re1 0-0 (I don't see any more aggressive move for black) 15. a3, white is well on the way to consolidating his extra pawn. 13...N/Bxd2 leaves white with an important choice: do we want to end up with an opposite colored bishop and rook ending or a knight and rook against bishop and rook ending? For reasons I will explain, I think the opposite bishops give us chances to win and no chance to lose, so I prefer maintaining our bishop, although it is a close call. So, the game will proceed: 14. Nxd2 Bxd2 15. Bxd2 Rxb2 16. Rfb1! this is the key move for us. We take control of the b file and wrest the initiative from black. + Show Spoiler +16...Rxd2 loses the exchange after 17. Rb8+ Ke7 18. Rxh8 (although further analysis may be warrranted as after 18...Rxd4 black's c and d pawns could be dangerous. However, I think white can stop the pawns and come out ahead in this ending. If black plays 16...Rxb1, white wins back a pawn after 17. Rxb1 0-0 (17...Ke7 is no better) 18. Rb7, so black will likely play 16...Rb6. Then, after 17. Ba5 (this is why we keep the B instead of the N) Rxb1 18. Rxb1, I don't see a way for black to avoid giving us a pawn back because the threat of Rb7 is impossible to meet. + Show Spoiler +You're line (after 0-0) is interesting, and looks good for white, but black doesn't need to commit to it. The line 13. 0-0 Nxd2 14. Nxd2 0-0 looks fine for black: white has a bad Bishop stuck on the back rank and black has the bishop pairs and his rooks connected.
(14. Bxd2 doesn't quite work the same after 14...Rxb2 15. Rfb1 and then Rb6 and black equalizes and is in a safe position; note if black attempted this while the bishop is still on, white simply plays Ba6 and it looks good for white.) + Show Spoiler +Hmm, good point. However, I think I still prefer the line after 14. Bxd2 Bxd2 15. Nxd2 Rxb2 16. Rfb1 Rb6 17. Nb3 0-0 18. Nc5 Bf5 19. Rb3 to the horrible bind we are in after 13. a3 and trying to keep the pawn. The line that EvilNalu is worried about after + Show Spoiler +is what I was worried about last move, and why I was advocating 11. Qxa7 instead of the move we played.
jdseemoreglass disagreed with my (and now EvilNalu's) assessment of this position. We had begun playing it out on page 74, but we haven't gotten very far (jdseemoreglass edited his post late on Friday and I didn't notice it until much later). I'll paste what we had:
On September 23 2011 02:39 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 01:54 jdseemoreglass wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@qrs, in my opinion I don't think our position is bad after the variation 13. a3 into Rb3. We've traded off even more material in this variation, which is a good thing when a pawn up. We simply have to maneuver our rook, Re1, Re3. If black doubles up on the b file, we can simply play Rc3, attacking his backwards pawn.
Everything here is defended. We have a weakness in the bishop being difficult to develop, but since things are pretty locked down, we have plenty of moves to maneuver around. Black's c-pawn isn't going anywhere, and we have a king-side pawn majority that we can slowly develop.
Here's the position after 11. Qxc6 that we disagree over: + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6ORq4.png) Black to play I see your points--at the same time, to me, the following gives a definite advantage to Black: + Show Spoiler +Two of our four pieces (Queenside Rook and Bishop) are practically immobile whereas Black has the run of the board. His plans might include playing his pawn to a4 and/or activating his King. Since it's hard to give definitive lines in this situation, would you consent to play this position out with me, taking the White side while I take Black? We can do that in edits to our last two posts here so we don't clutter the thread. Takebacks would naturally be allowed. + Show Spoiler [move list] +1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 Bc5
4. c3 Nf6
5. d4 exd4
6. e5 Ne4
7. cxd4 Bb4
8. Nbd2 d5
9. Bxc6 bxc6
10. Qa4 Rb8
11. Qxc6 Qd7
12. Qxd7+ Bxd7
13. a3 Bxd2+
14. Nxd2 Nxd2
15. Kxd2 Rb3
16. Re1 O-O
17. Re3 Rfb8
18. Rc3 R8b7
19. Rc5 Kf8 Sorry, didn't notice your move till just now. If jdseemoreglass (or anyone) wants to continue playing this out, please feel free.
Meanwhile, since I'm quite pessimistic about the above line, I prefer the line that EvilNalu suggests: + Show Spoiler +13. 0-0--see his above-quoted post above for why this does not drop a pawn to 13... N/Bxd2 14. Nxd2 B/Nxd2 15. Bxd2 Rxb2
Another possible line, which I only began considering out of desperation, but which might actually be playable is + Show Spoiler +However, on the whole, EvilNalu's line looks better.
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Qxd7
+ Show Spoiler +Don't have too much time to think about the game until tomorrow, but the move seems clear and forced.
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Move 13
An attempt at a summary of the position and the discussion that's been posted on it.
+ Show Spoiler [Position at Move 13] +After 12. Qxd7 Bxd7![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8n8d2.png) White to playOR After 12. Qxd7 Kxd7![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sXhFN.png) White to playMost of the analysis done to date has been done on the first move, although some people have suggested that Black may prefer the second. In any case, it's likely that a fair bit of the analysis applies to either position, but for the record, the lines below assume 12...Bxd7, which provides the maximum flexibility to Black's light-squared Bishop.
Summary of Candidate Moves
These are the moves that have been suggested in this thread:
+ Show Spoiler [13.] +- 13. a3: originally the suggestion of jdseemoreglass, here. The main goal of this move is to untangle the situation by forcing Black to exchange off the central pieces that are strangling us. Its main drawbacks are
- it invests a precious tempo in doing nothing but forcing Black to act.
- It weakens b3 (a point that Black can take devastating advantage of [see main line]).
+ Show Spoiler [main line] +13. a3 B/Nxd2 14. Nxd2 N/Bxd2 15. Kxd2 (the order in which Black captures doesn't seem to make a difference. In either case, we recapture with our Knight and then King; otherwise, again, once the Bishop leaves c1, Black is free to even up the material after all with ...Rxb2.) 15...Rb3 (locking down the position by preventing the advance of the b-pawn; cutting the White King off from the center of the board [and the two pawns there]; preparing to double Rooks) 16. Re1 (preparing to activate our only mobile piece and to challenge the Rook on b3) 16...Ke7 (Originally the analysis here had 16...0-0, but 16...Ke7 seems a better move, for similar reasons to those given in support of 12...Kxd7 [though without the drawbacks of that move]: it saves Black a couple of moves by activating his King sooner, while in this position, with Queens off the board, and with two and half of our four pieces locked down, King safety is not a concern for Black) 17. Re3 (activating our only mobile piece and challenging the Rook on b3) 17...Rhb8 (defending the Rook on b3 so that if it is captured, it will be replaced by another; also adding to the pressure on the b2 pawn) 18. Rc3 (gaining a tempo and putting a constraint on Black's position as he must defend the c- pawn in one way or another; clearing the way for the White King to reach the center, if desired) 18...R8b7 (defending the pawn in the most flexible way for Black) to reach the following position: + Show Spoiler [Position at Move 19] +After 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 13. a3 B/Nxd2 14. Nxd2 N/Bxd2 15. Kxd2 Rb3 16. Re1 Ke7 17. Re3 Rhb8 18. Rc3 R8b7![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5MzBs.png) White to playWhite still retains his pawn, but his chances to keep it and make any progress appear slim. The c1 Bishop is tied to the defense of the b-pawn, and it blocks in the a1 Rook. + Show Spoiler [White plans that don't work] +- If RxR, Black plays ...RxR and all we have done is exchange off our last fully mobile piece for one of Black's four mobile pieces.
- If Kc2 (with or without first playing RxR) with the idea of freeing our Queenside by forcing the Rook away from b3, Black plays ...Ba4 and we must move our King away again or lose material via discovered check. (Note that once Black plays ...Bf5, Kc2 will no longer be an option at all.)
- If Rb1, to relieve the Bishop, ...Bf5 drives it away again.
- Ra2 relieves the Bishop in theory but takes the Rook entirely out of play as well as tying it to the defense of the b-pawn; furthermore, White's light-square weakness means that a2 is not an especially safe square for the Rook in the long term. For instance, if Black can maneuver his Bishop to c4 or b1, the Rook will be driven from a2, meaning that a Rook on a2 cannot be relied on as a long-term defender of the b-pawn.
- A possible plan to relieve the Bishop involves maneuvering the King to c2, b1, and a2, but again ...Bf5 prevents this with ease.
- A possible plan to implement the above plan while circumventing the threat of ...Bf5 is to play 19. RxR RxR 20. Kc2 (essentially the same plan could be played on an earlier move), but popzags has shown that this does not work: 20...Ba4 21. Kb1 (assuming that we wish to carry out the plan to defend b2 with the King, we must play this) 21...Rd3 (threatening our d-pawn) 22. Be2 (the only way to defend the pawn) 22...Rd1+ 23. Ka2 (if we play 23. Bc1 than we have lost the d-pawn after all) 23...Bb3+ 24. KxB RxR and we have lost the exchange.
- We might try to launch the above plan immediately with 15. Kc2 (here, the above refutation does not work as the Kingside Rook is still on the 1st rank, preventing 22...Rd1+). However, this does not work either. See analysis here.
- An idea to prevent the key Black move ...Bf5 is f3/h3 followed by g4, but this is too slow: as soon as Black sees f3/h3, he is free to play ...Bf5 immediately, after which we cannot dislodge him from the critical h7-b1 diagonal.
- The attempt to free our Queenside by playing a4 drops a pawn immediately to the fork ...Rd4
- We might attempt to disrupt Black's position with the stab 19. Rc5 (this was jdseemoreglass's move in a similar position). The idea behind this move is that Black will have to defend his d-pawn in one way or another, and whichever way he chooses will restrict him or weaken his position in one way or another. For instance, if Black plays 19...c6, then his c-pawn blocks his Bishop from the e8-a4 diagonal and the Bishop is tied to the defense of the c-pawn. If he plays ...Be6, then his Bishop is a move away from the e8-a4 diagonal and while the d-pawn remains under attack, it is tied to e6, and so on: whichever defense Black chooses will restrict him in one way or another.
The idea makes sense in theory, but in practice it doesn't seem to help us much. For one thing, it's not 100% clear that Black has to defend the pawn--he could let us capture it and counter by capturing one of ours instead--but even granting that Black wants to defend his pawn, the defense of 19...c6, followed in most cases by 20...R7b6 (to free Black's dark-squared Bishop) seems to be adequate to allow Black to proceed comfortably.
+ Show Spoiler [details] +Although the c6 pawn blocks off the e8-a4 diagonal, in general, the diagonal that is much more important to Black is the h7-b1 diagonal, reached by ...Bf5, as demonstrated in various lines above, and this defense allows him to reach it.
The main reason that Black might need the e8-a4 diagonal open is to play ...Ba4 in defense against Kc2. However, with our Rooks doubled, Kc2 is only a threat when our Rook is on the third rank. Once we have played 19. Rc5, Black has the time for, e.g. 19...c6 20. Rb3 R7b6 21. Kc2 Bf5+, forcing our King away from c2 again.
Edit: This was mistaken (21. RxR instead and the Kc2 plan works). At the time of writing, this has already become a moot point, but otherwise, this line would have brooked investigation. Perhaps 20... a5 is a better plan for Black.
In short, Rc5 is an interesting try, perhaps our best in the circumstances, and perhaps allows us to reduce Black's mobility slightly, but it doesn't hinder Black from playing his main strategic objectives, in particular ...Bf5.
In short, it is hard to find a plan for White that maintains our pawn lead while freeing our two trapped pieces. On the other hand, all four of Black's pieces have full mobility, and he has no shortage of plans, including + Show Spoiler [Black plans] +- The aforementioned ...Bf5, further restricting our Queenside and shown above to be critical in several lines.
- Activating his King.
- Playing ...a5-a4 to advance a pawn and strengthen his stranglehold on our Queenside. (As mentioned above, we cannot immediately [and likely cannot ever] play a4 to block this, without losing a pawn to the fork ...Rd4.)
- 13. Ke2?!: originally suggested by qrs (me) to avoid the drawbacks of 13. a3.
On September 23 2011 01:42 qrs wrote:
I haven't much looked into this line--it certainly looks pretty desperate at a glance, and Black has moves like 14. ...Bb5+ and 14...Bg4 at his disposal, but perhaps this line is worth investigating.
The method to the madness here is that this is the only move that immediately relieves the pin on the d2 Knight while still defending both f2 and d2.
This move may be a playable way to keep the pawn, but little analysis has been done on it.
- 13. 0-0: originally suggested and analyzed by EvilNalu. The idea of this move is to relieve the pressure on our position, while playing a useful developing move. However, it doesn't seem that we can hold on to the extra pawn in this line.
+ Show Spoiler [main line] +EvilNalu suggested the following in his most recent post, which reaches what looks like dynamic equality. + Show Spoiler [Position at Move 19] +After 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 13. 0-0 Nxd2 14. Bxd2 Bxd2 15. Nxd2 Rxb2 16. Rfb1 Rb6 17. Nb3 0-0 18. Nc5 Bf5 19. Rb3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cxolk.png) Black to playPopzags suggested a different line after 13. 0-0, which basically has us looking for a draw. Both of these lines ultimately return the pawn to Black. It doesn't seem that we have a way to hold onto it after 13. 0-0.
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PS: The above post contains the most thorough analysis posted yet on + Show Spoiler [13.] + If you (jd or anyone else) still want to play that 13th move, please look at the analysis above and come up with a refutation. Thanks!
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+ Show Spoiler +Not 100%, but you may have swayed my choice to Ke2.
Worst that happens is Ba6+ but we can simply play e3. From there, our knight is now free to move, namely to b3 in my opinion. Protects our d4 pawn, shields our b pawn, and allows our black square bishop to roam.
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btw qrs, one of the line in you summary has a tactical mistake
+ Show Spoiler +
after 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 13. 0-0 Nxd2 14. Nxd2 0-0 15. Nb3, black can win the rook with Bb5! 16. Rd1 Be2, showcasing the power of the 2 bishops. Because of this, white cant keep his extra pawn. The latest line suggested by EvilNalu with 14.Bxd2 is probably the best white can get in the 0-0 line
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On September 28 2011 09:09 Raysalis wrote:btw qrs, one of the line in you summary has a tactical mistake + Show Spoiler +
after 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 13. 0-0 Nxd2 14. Nxd2 0-0 15. Nb3, black can win the rook with Bb5! 16. Rd1 Be2, showcasing the power of the 2 bishops. Because of this, white cant keep his extra pawn. The latest line suggested by EvilNalu with 14.Bxd2 is probably the best white can get in the 0-0 line
Good catch. I'd wondered why EvilNalu didn't like that line. I'll correct the summary.
One last try to keep the pawn: + Show Spoiler +12. Qxd7 Bxd7 13. 0-0 Nxd2 14. Nxd2 0-0 15. Rd1 (never mind: I'm stupid [and posted that quickly]--it loses to the very same move for the same reason!)
edit2: I'm posting too quickly...maybe it works after all...
edit3: Looks like it doesn't give us very much.
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I'm not sure I can send a last minute reminder this time guys, but I will try to do so during the night. 
I'm thinking about making my reply move on Thursday when I get home. Like... right the hell before I pass out or something.
<3
me
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I still believe Jd's line with a3 is best. I like keeping the pawn and although the situation is sticky at first, we still are a pawn up. I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing a pawn just for space. I provided analysis for it two or three of my posts back so I refer to those for anyone who would be interested in giving it a shot.
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On September 28 2011 15:38 mastergriggy wrote:
I still believe Jd's line with a3 is best. I like keeping the pawn and although the situation is sticky at first, we still are a pawn up. I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing a pawn just for space. I provided analysis for it two or three of my posts back so I refer to those for anyone who would be interested in giving it a shot. Your analysis here (which you could have linked to, at least) consists of a short forced line, a general plan, and the words + Show Spoiler +"I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks"
For my part, I also like keeping the pawn, which is why I'll be casting my vote for+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 28 2011 16:13 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 15:38 mastergriggy wrote:
I still believe Jd's line with a3 is best. I like keeping the pawn and although the situation is sticky at first, we still are a pawn up. I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing a pawn just for space. I provided analysis for it two or three of my posts back so I refer to those for anyone who would be interested in giving it a shot. Your analysis here (which you could have linked to, at least) consists of a short forced line, a general plan, and the words + Show Spoiler +"I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks" In my post on this page (with the green header), I gave much more detailed analysis showing why the line is not very good. Among other things, I specifically addressed your plan. If you're going to say something like "I believe this line is best", the least you could do is address the analysis which seems to show that it's pretty bad. For my part, I also like keeping the pawn, which is why I'll be casting my vote for + Show Spoiler +
I think I didn't say exactly what I was trying to say in my last post, so I'm gonna try again. I don't see why we need to choose a line that returns the pawn as opposed to a line that keeps one. Whether it be a3 or Ke2, as long as we aren't simply looking to get rid of it.
Analysis of why I beleive a3 is still a strong move:
+ Show Spoiler +As for your line (13. a3 B/Nxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 Rb3), you suggest white plays 16. Re1 but I think white has a much stronger move with 16. b4. A line that black might try to take advantage of the weak white squares is 16...Bb5 17.Ke1!? with the intent of moving the bishop out. 17...0-0 (Rc6 looks okay, but after Be3, Ke2 no place the rook can get in) 18. Be3 Rfb8 (trying to breakthrough with Bc4 and a5) [b]19. Ke2[/b[ and white looks fine and has an extra pawn as well. Another line for black 16...0-0 17. Ke1 Rg3 (shifting the focus to the king's side) 18. Be3 (maybe f4 is stronger here for white?) ...Bf3 19. Rg1 and Ke2 and moving the rooks to the c file looks very strong for white. 16...Bf5 17. Ke2 Rc6 18. Bd2 0-0 19. Rac1 looks strong for white. I don't see any prevalent moves for black, but I will keep looking. As one fellow chess player to another, please at least give the lines following 16. b4 a look and if you find a strong reason why white can't play that, let me know and I will retract my interests in a3 (and change my signature to "qrs is a beast at chess" for a week  )
Edit: Fixed horrible grammar and added more analysis of different lines for black.
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Spoilers. Please.
Forgot to send out reminders this time, but it probably didn't matter on this move.
I won't answer right away - I don't want to close and count the next round Saturday night, I'll wait a day before I post my reply.
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Deadline is over.
It's pretty safe to assume that Qxd7+ happened. This time I cannot do the updates right off the bat, but I will do so later tonight. I'll make my move sometimes tomorrow.
Cheers!
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On September 29 2011 07:31 mastergriggy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 16:13 qrs wrote:On September 28 2011 15:38 mastergriggy wrote:
I still believe Jd's line with a3 is best. I like keeping the pawn and although the situation is sticky at first, we still are a pawn up. I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing a pawn just for space. I provided analysis for it two or three of my posts back so I refer to those for anyone who would be interested in giving it a shot. Your analysis here (which you could have linked to, at least) consists of a short forced line, a general plan, and the words + Show Spoiler +"I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks" In my post on this page (with the green header), I gave much more detailed analysis showing why the line is not very good. Among other things, I specifically addressed your plan. If you're going to say something like "I believe this line is best", the least you could do is address the analysis which seems to show that it's pretty bad. For my part, I also like keeping the pawn, which is why I'll be casting my vote for + Show Spoiler + I think I didn't say exactly what I was trying to say in my last post, so I'm gonna try again. I don't see why we need to choose a line that returns the pawn as opposed to a line that keeps one. Whether it be a3 or Ke2, as long as we aren't simply looking to get rid of it. Analysis of why I beleive a3 is still a strong move: + Show Spoiler +As for your line (13. a3 B/Nxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 Rb3), you suggest white plays 16. Re1 but I think white has a much stronger move with 16. b4. A line that black might try to take advantage of the weak white squares is 16...Bb5 17.Ke1!? with the intent of moving the bishop out. 17...0-0 (Rc6 looks okay, but after Be3, Ke2 no place the rook can get in) 18. Be3 Rfb8 (trying to breakthrough with Bc4 and a5) [b]19. Ke2[/b[ and white looks fine and has an extra pawn as well. Another line for black 16...0-0 17. Ke1 Rg3 (shifting the focus to the king's side) 18. Be3 (maybe f4 is stronger here for white?) ...Bf3 19. Rg1 and Ke2 and moving the rooks to the c file looks very strong for white. 16...Bf5 17. Ke2 Rc6 18. Bd2 0-0 19. Rac1 looks strong for white. I don't see any prevalent moves for black, but I will keep looking. As one fellow chess player to another, please at least give the lines following 16. b4 a look and if you find a strong reason why white can't play that, let me know and I will retract my interests in a3 (and change my signature to "qrs is a beast at chess" for a week ) Edit: Fixed horrible grammar and added more analysis of different lines for black.
+ Show Spoiler +
I would have love it if we can play b4 but that will be quite impossible with black rook park on b3
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Sorry guys, worked all night and now I'm going off to uni for some 14 hours. I'll update everything when I make my move as I get home.
Cheers,
me
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On September 29 2011 17:05 Raysalis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 07:31 mastergriggy wrote:On September 28 2011 16:13 qrs wrote:On September 28 2011 15:38 mastergriggy wrote:
I still believe Jd's line with a3 is best. I like keeping the pawn and although the situation is sticky at first, we still are a pawn up. I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing a pawn just for space. I provided analysis for it two or three of my posts back so I refer to those for anyone who would be interested in giving it a shot. Your analysis here (which you could have linked to, at least) consists of a short forced line, a general plan, and the words + Show Spoiler +"I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks" In my post on this page (with the green header), I gave much more detailed analysis showing why the line is not very good. Among other things, I specifically addressed your plan. If you're going to say something like "I believe this line is best", the least you could do is address the analysis which seems to show that it's pretty bad. For my part, I also like keeping the pawn, which is why I'll be casting my vote for + Show Spoiler + I think I didn't say exactly what I was trying to say in my last post, so I'm gonna try again. I don't see why we need to choose a line that returns the pawn as opposed to a line that keeps one. Whether it be a3 or Ke2, as long as we aren't simply looking to get rid of it. Analysis of why I beleive a3 is still a strong move: + Show Spoiler +As for your line (13. a3 B/Nxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 Rb3), you suggest white plays 16. Re1 but I think white has a much stronger move with 16. b4. A line that black might try to take advantage of the weak white squares is 16...Bb5 17.Ke1!? with the intent of moving the bishop out. 17...0-0 (Rc6 looks okay, but after Be3, Ke2 no place the rook can get in) 18. Be3 Rfb8 (trying to breakthrough with Bc4 and a5) [b]19. Ke2[/b[ and white looks fine and has an extra pawn as well. Another line for black 16...0-0 17. Ke1 Rg3 (shifting the focus to the king's side) 18. Be3 (maybe f4 is stronger here for white?) ...Bf3 19. Rg1 and Ke2 and moving the rooks to the c file looks very strong for white. 16...Bf5 17. Ke2 Rc6 18. Bd2 0-0 19. Rac1 looks strong for white. I don't see any prevalent moves for black, but I will keep looking. As one fellow chess player to another, please at least give the lines following 16. b4 a look and if you find a strong reason why white can't play that, let me know and I will retract my interests in a3 (and change my signature to "qrs is a beast at chess" for a week ) Edit: Fixed horrible grammar and added more analysis of different lines for black. + Show Spoiler +
I would have love it if we can play b4 but that will be quite impossible with black rook park on b3
Edit: Nevermind, I'm retarded. Sorry if I came off as harsh.
Original post is in spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +You posted no analysis while I posted 3 different lines that start off with black playing Rb3. Did you not read my analysis? If you didn't, then please do and post analysis of why we can't play b4. Read the spoiler part.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D6ZSW.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/citAf.png)
