EPTAnother point missed with your comparison of BW to SC2 is the foreign scene. Yes SC2 isn't as big as BW is/was was but with the foreign scene booming the potential is easily there.
Why Esports Will Fail - Page 4
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Holy_Check
United States5 Posts
Another point missed with your comparison of BW to SC2 is the foreign scene. Yes SC2 isn't as big as BW is/was was but with the foreign scene booming the potential is easily there. | ||
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Mormagil
35 Posts
On May 28 2011 03:53 Sajiki wrote: ok im newb in ssbb.. what the fuck is tripping? i have watched like 5 different videos of ppl complaining about it but i still havent understood what it actually is.. is it that your char falls to the ground ? Yes, and it is essentially random. While this spacifically isn't the huge problem with Brawl, the mentality behind it is. The imbalance of MK and Snake aren't really too bad of a problem (even though it certainly doesn't help). Games can survive being massively imbalanced and still be considered great. People forget that Melee is a gigantically hugely imbalanced game. In Melee, you have 26 characters, and you have a shot at winning a big tournament with only four of them. Maybe a fifth if you count the unique cases of Mango and Hungrybox's Puff or Armada's Peach. It is even debatable that Marth is still in that category as we haven't seen a good Marth since M2K. Beyond that, nothing else has a chance. For example, you will never see a Captain Falcon win anything because they will eventually play against a Sheik in brackets somewhere. For example, Ice climbers hasn't won anything in years because people figured out how to not get grabbed. And nothing else can stand up to Fox/Falco. The best Zelda player in the world (Lake) plays at my school every now and again, and he can't even get out of pools at major events. And yet Melee is still played as is remembered as an amazing game whereas Brawl is laughed at. Why? The difference is the skill ceiling and game difficulty. The skill ceiling in Melee doesn't exist. Even without the random chances of tripping, the tech required to even move around in Melee makes anything in Brawl look pathetic. Melee is so much harder and more intricate than Brawl that you regularly will see Melee players rape Brawl pros at Brawl. M2K didn't dominate the Brawl scene because he played Metaknight, the most OP character in the game. He dominated because he was the only Melee player to bother with Brawl. As proof, I offer his Metaknight ditto history. If it isn't 100% wins, it's damn close. The man never lost MK vs. MK. If that doesn't say he is better than his opponents, not sure what does. This kind of deterioration is happening all over the gaming world. I haven't seen a good counterexample of this trend in a long time. What does this have to do with the esports scene living or dieing? Well, I would debate that games losing their high skill appeal is a bad thing in general, but I leave that up to all you. It sure as hell doesn't help, let's agree on that. | ||
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locilocisu
25 Posts
Take the board game Go for example. It's been played for thousand of years now. They have a rule that gives the player that moves second some extra point. This point has change in amount multiple times across the history of the game. It was a balance adjustment along the way as they discover how people become better and better at the game. | ||
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kHaza
Great Britain55 Posts
I think the casual audience for video games will actually begin to decline quite soon. I think Call of Duty made it big and when MW3 comes out later this year and people realise that it sucks, there will once again be demand fr more balanced, more compitive video games which was the element of the market CoD actually had a huge share in even though all CoD games since CoD4 have been utterly terrible in terms of balance a fairness. Also, there has never really been a game that has been designed to be played at an incredibly high competitive level. SC2 is pretty close but it still caters for the casual audience, perhaps a little too much. I remember hearing talk that MLG might commision its own game to be made specifally for competition after Reach turned out to be way too casual and random (bloom kinda ruined Halo) While this turned out to be specualtion, I see no reason why this shouldnt happen and should it happen it would provide some solution to some of the issues you raise. Maybe I am blindly optimistic about this, but I am optimistic none the less. | ||
bioniK
United States65 Posts
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hagrin
United States278 Posts
I think it might be better to say - "Why Esports will never grow beyond a certain point because the fluidity of progaming is just far too great". Esports has obviously not peaked yet since prize money, viewership and technology are all increasing, but there probably is a glass ceiling that esports will never get beyond because the players don't have long careers, the games change too frequently, the money for game devs is in making new games not supporting old ones, etc. Interesting topic though - definitely food for thought. | ||
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Zechs
United Kingdom321 Posts
Companies make games and want to make money. New games make money. Sports are built up over a long period of time. Take a look at the COD scene for the worst (best) example. | ||
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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qdenser
Canada133 Posts
solidarity against low skill-cap games my friends. | ||
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
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Redux
United States21 Posts
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vivaldi290
Chad19 Posts
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rawbertson
Canada95 Posts
On May 28 2011 05:37 vivaldi290 wrote: Even if you know nothing about Football/Soccer/Basketball you can look at an athlete and see he's in-shape, if you're a woman you might want to date him, if you're a man you'd probably think "Wow I'd like to have a body like that". Tell me you wouldn't want to date this guy if you were a chick ![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/general/images/2011/january/immvp-gomtvs4-winner.jpg) | ||
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Mormagil
35 Posts
On May 28 2011 05:15 bioniK wrote: I don't think you realize how much a sport changes in 5 years, the way the game is played changes the rules that affect it. For instance NBA this year just gave referees the ability to re watch a play and see if a hard to call foul is indeed a foul, or to determine if a possession lead to a 3 pointer or just a long field goal, or any other hard to make call. Its a small change but with it brought forth many more offensive foul calls, I don't have the statistics but if you've been consistently watching basketball in the last 10 years, you can tell the big men(centers, power forwards) get a lot more offensive foul calls then they used to, which change a big game because in the past more plays were made for the teams bigs as they were more reliable to get a field goal, but nowadays a lot of teams focus on getting the ball to the more agile and quicker guards. Starcraft and Starcraft 2 can be seen in the same way; I mean sure SC2 has mules, larvae inject, and chrono boost but its still a very similar econ style game that has the same basic fundamental concepts that progamers have to master in order to be able to play at a high level. I'll agree that for e-sports to move forward that a lot of games that are considered e-sports are going to have to be weeded out but games like Call of Duty(maybe not since Infinity ward is gone), Halo, and most importantly Starcraft will stay consistent in that it has the same fundamental concepts it always has and will continue to do so. to the above poster: Just throwing this out there, I don't think the ability to watch replays counts as a rule change. That counts as finally giving the refs the ability to enforce the existing rules. This results in the players finally having some problems in abusing the game, which of course changes the game. Remeber that game Alanzo Mourning took a fall from contact with Muggsy Bogues? How seriously are we supposed to take a change if it fixes something as retarded as things like that. I mean, I'm sorry, but even if you give Muggsy a tank he couldn't knock Mourning over. For me, this is about the same as a bug fix in video games. In general: I think the original poster was making a more economic argument about the gaming industry than an argument about the games themselves. From the game company's point of view, it makes sense to make games and patches around the common gamer. Also, it makes sense to constantly try to push the community into the merry go round of switching from Halo 15 to Halo 16. In terms of dollars, it's just too much of a good deal for them. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 28 2011 05:37 vivaldi290 wrote: On top of the reasons mentioned, Esports will never be popular because there is no aesthetic appeal. Even if you know nothing about Football/Soccer/Basketball you can look at an athlete and see he's in-shape, if you're a woman you might want to date him, if you're a man you'd probably think "Wow I'd like to have a body like that". It's the same reason attractive people are cast in TV shows/Movies, even if you know nothing about the movie or the show you want to watch because the people are attractive. The same cannot be said for pro gamers, who more often than not are out of shape/unattractive because they get to hide behind a computer screen all day and do not need to be inshape to succeed at the game. That's like saying that mathematics cannot have aesthetic appeal. To each his own, I can see as much beauty in someone's mind (manifested in SC through the ability to concentrate, make split second tactical decisions, maintain practice, mental strength required to perform well under pressure, etc. etc.) as I see in a beautiful woman's body. | ||
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Ome
Canada157 Posts
On May 28 2011 05:37 vivaldi290 wrote: On top of the reasons mentioned, Esports will never be popular because there is no aesthetic appeal. Even if you know nothing about Football/Soccer/Basketball you can look at an athlete and see he's in-shape, if you're a woman you might want to date him, if you're a man you'd probably think "Wow I'd like to have a body like that". It's the same reason attractive people are cast in TV shows/Movies, even if you know nothing about the movie or the show you want to watch because the people are attractive. The same cannot be said for pro gamers, who more often than not are out of shape/unattractive because they get to hide behind a computer screen all day and do not need to be inshape to succeed at the game. I disagree. Certainly many athletes are in great shape, but there are some that are not and they are/were popular during their time. Look at Roger Clemens or David Wells or any number of pitchers in baseball, and you'll find that many of them were not in peak physical condition. As an avid hockey fan, the only thing I care about is the player's skill. It doesn't matter if he has no front teeth (not unusual for a hockey player) as long as he makes exciting plays. The same can be said for SC2. | ||
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CodECleaR
United States395 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On May 28 2011 05:45 Random() wrote: That's like saying that mathematics cannot have aesthetic appeal. To each his own, I can see as much beauty in someone's mind (manifested in SC through the ability to concentrate, make split second tactical decisions, maintain practice, mental strength required to perform well under pressure, etc. etc.) as I see in a beautiful woman's body. Sadly that's not how most brains work. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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