Hello Teamliquid! If the title didn't make it obvious enough, this is my 10000th post at this site. Hopefully, with this post my good post count gets upped to 40, which gives me a decent good post : total post ratio... right?
Probably not. Anyway, before I delve into what this post is actually about, let's take a few lines and give out a few plugs/shout-outs.
To ]343[, thanks (and damn you) for showing me this site. To all staff members, thanks for keeping this site running and amazing. To disciple in particular, thanks for being amazing. I'll always remember your first PM regarding SPL LR OP graphics. To the Mafia forum, for being the second-spammiest forum around and for the amazing mindgames. To the Live Report threads, for upping my post count at near-incomprehensible speeds. And finally, to any reader who actually manages to finish this post.
Regardless, this isn't going to be some long-winded story about my life, my (nonexistent) Starcraft career, or my love life, though it definitely will be long-winded. It's been in the making for three years, half-completed for two, completely revamped for one, and now finally the completely scrapped and rewritten version is done. With this guide, hopefully it can clear up a lot of questions about how to get a high score in timed Tetris (known to me as Tetris Ultra) through the repeated use of T-Spins.
Preamble
First off, some answers to basic questions that I will not be covering in this guide.
What is Tetris? Tetris. As the TL Moderators say so often, Google is your friend!
I don't understand some of your terminology, like "Hold" and "Hard Drop". Check the above link and type the term in question into the search bar!
Okay cool... So what is a T-Spin? Since I will not actually be covering what a T-Spin is, here's yet another link to help you.
Why should I play this game? It lets you use and abuse your APM, duh? But really, apparently Tetris stimulates mental activity and increases logic/set skill, so why not? Also, does this color hurt your eyes?
Why is your post count so high? I post a lot. But not as much as konadora.
Why are you so cute? I'm actually a kitten. It's quite hard typing with these paws you know.
Anyway, as a sort of warning I say that the following strategy works only on Tetris sites that have a 7-Bag Randomization method for giving pieces. The grab bag method means that a sets of seven pieces (one of each type) will appear in the queue time after time. In laymen's terms, you will never get three pieces of the same type in a row, and if you play without holding any blocks, after each "bag" of seven, each of the seven types of pieces will have the same number dropped into the matrix. Luckily, I believe the major Tetris sites (the ones listed above) employ this type of randomization. Furthermore, know that ST Stacking requires the utmost precision--you cannot mess up (misdrop) and hope to continue playing. Expect yourself to restart many, many times.
We all good. Read on!
Setup and General Theory
3:02:26 AM rofl 3:02:28 AM i was like 3:02:29 AM **** 3:02:30 AM use red! 3:02:30 AM **** 3:02:31 AM tetris! 3:02:32 AM ****
-]343[, #2 Tetris Ultra player in the world, on Tetris and swearing.
This is the proper mindset you need for ST stacking. This isn't your calculator Tetris game, where you have an infinite amount of time to score points (provided you don't die). In Tetris Ultra, the mainstay of ST stacking, you have two minutes to score as many points as possible. As such, you better be going as quickly as you can.
What is ST stacking anyway? Well, it's a method that you can use to repeatedly set up T-spin doubles (infinite T-spin recurrence loop) to score more points than you could by using any other method. ST is characterized by its two most important pieces: the red S piece, and the purple T piece (colors from Tetrisfriends).
ST Stacking in action.
To the right is a pretty typical game of Tetris Ultra for an ST Stacker. As you can see, the red pieces are lined up on the far right hand side of the matrix, and in the left-hand side every three lines there is a "hole" or a slot, that when looked at together with the red piece create a perfect slot for a T-Spin double. In Tetris Ultra, clearing four lines at once--the eponymous Tetris--gives you 800 or 1200 (for a back-to-back) points, while a T-Spin double gives you 1200 or 1800 (for a back-to-back) points, for only two lines. Simply put, ST Stacking allows you to score more points per piece dropped, though there is the latent slowdown effect that I will talk about later.
Setting up an ST stack certainly looks daunting to the untrained eye, but in reality it's actually much, much easier (and far more "memorizable") than just playing it with straight Tetrises (Tetri?). The reason lies within the 7-Bag Randomization, which will be explained shortly.
First, let's talk about how to divide up the matrix. When you are ST stacking, instead of treating the matrix as one 10-wide block, we are going to divide it into three sections: left, center, and right.
This picture sucks, but it should provide a decent enough visual.
The right side (the rightmost three columns) is the namesake of the ST stack. There are only three types of pieces that will be placed on the right hand side--the red S, the light blue I piece, and the all-powerful purple T piece. For placing the S and T pieces, the theory is easy. To create the right-hand side of the T-Spin slot, rotate the S piece upright and place it as far right as you can. Clear it with a soft-dropped T piece. Repeat. The long I pieces are a bit more situational in use, and that will be covered in the section Tetrising. The left side consists of the four leftmost columns, and this will be your "dump" section. You place pieces here that you cannot place in the center or right, though a good ST Stacker will keep both his center and left at approximately the same height. The center comprises the three leftover columns not included in right and left, and it is used to set up the left side of the T-Spin slot. The guidelines for setting up successful lefts and centers will be covered in Left Side Stacking and Center.
Anyway, the reason I explained this matrix segregation to you before expounding on the 7-Bag Randomization is that if you think about ST Stacking in terms of these three sections, there is no truly random piece. Played perfectly, every piece can be accounted for and placed in an appropriate area. You already know how to deal with two pieces: except for in very extreme situations (covered later) red and purple pieces are placed in right, as well as long I pieces when the situation permits. For the rest of the pieces, as long as you follow one very important rule (in my eyes, the most important rule for ST Stacking) there will never be a piece that shows up that will make you think "well, no clue on where to place that piece... time to start over."
Green leading orange.
For the seven pieces of Tetris in ST stacking, there are three brother pairings, since the I piece stands alone. You already know of one of these pairings: red and purple go hand in hand. The other two brother pairings are green/orange (GO) and yellow/blue (YB). Since in each bag of seven pieces you get one of each of these, after every set of bags you will have a 1:1 correspondence between pairing pieces. Using the hold function, it is possible to generate a semi-stable "pattern" between two complementary pieces. Put simply, if I utilize the hold function well enough I can play GOGOGO (with other pieces in between, of course) so when only greens and oranges are considered, no two greens or oranges are played in a row. This can be done with all the patterns, and it's definitely mandatory when considering the ST pairing, since you need to have an S down before you can use the T to T-Spin. Therefore, let us define the S piece as the "trailing" piece of the pair, and the T-piece as the "leading" piece of the pair. In the same sense, in the GO pairing green is leading while orange is trailing, and in the YB pairing yellow is trailing while blue is leading. The reason that the pieces are designated as such is that even though you generally want to place G before O, S before T, etc., you want to have the other piece (O/T) ready to play in case you need to deal with the brother causing trouble.
The reason for this will be explained in the Center Stacking section, but as a general reason for this it's harder to place a green than an orange, so green should be placed first. Now for my dubbed most important rule, the Rule of Greens:
Orange should always closely follow green. In other words, orange should lead green.
Orange leading green. Notice that after playing the green, orange can be played right after. The next orange after that can be held to wait for the next green.
Generally speaking, this means that if a green is played in the middle, play the orange in the middle. If the green is played on the left, play the orange on the left. Make sure that whenever possible, you are always leading with orange. What this means is if you are leading with orange, you will always be able to play an orange after a green (since orange will either be in hold or following closely after green in the queue), thus negating the major "threat" the green piece has on the matrix, since the green Z has a very weird shape that's not conducive to many other blocks. However, if you are leading with green there is a possibility that you will get two greens in a row and be unable to place the second one, forcing a restart. For YB, the leading piece is of less importance, though I would generally say play Y in leading, since the block shape has less available options in terms of placement than the useful L-shaped piece. For ST, leading with T gives you more luxury, since the T piece will be in the hold queue till you decide to use it, and you use it when you have no place to play the upcoming piece. Thus, you are able to guarantee a "useful hold" piece since you can use the T to complete a T-Spin. However, if you are leading with S then you sometimes may not be able to switch out the T piece (such as if there is no S piece on the board currently), thus you run the risk of not being able to play any piece.
Just played two greens in a row. Notice how orange is leading again.
Don't panic if you start leading with a green, since if you can find a way to play two greens in a row before resuming your pattern, you'll be leading by an orange. I think at this point it goes without saying that you don't want to be leading by two greens, and even leading by two oranges is suboptimal. It's best to only be leading by one iteration. If you're leading by more than that, play extra pieces of the type you're leading by to either cut down/fully reverse the leader.
This theory will be expanded upon further, and this is definitely the most confusing section. Remember, hold greens sparsely and play them as quickly as you can, following them up quickly with an orange. Really, blues and yellow are harmless and can be used pretty much wherever, but I cannot stress how nasty greens are. If I had to estimate, I'd say at least 70% of my early games were forced to restart because I had two green in a row and nowhere to place the second one. Now, I mostly restart because I'm pretty imprecise. I blame the lag, man.
Theory is nice and all, but let's actually move onto the gameplay. However, as a precaution there is simply way too much for me to detail, so I will go over some stuff, yes, but a lot of it will be guidelines. Really, the best you can do is practice, practice, practice. Eventually, your recognition, decision-making ability, and speed will increase. It's just like Starcraft!
Opening
Examples of "standard" openings.
The opening can be one of the most frustrating things for a new ST stacker to deal with, yet also one of the most trivial, seeing as how you can practice your opening whenever you want to. Still though, it's no denying it's very annoying, since when you start out you won't know many builds, invariably you'll be forced to soft drop pieces, or worse, restart. Once again, as said above there are so many moves you can make due to holding, so the number of openings you can create is theoretically limitless! And by limitless, I mean some combinatorially-based finite number that I'm way too tired and lazy to calculate right now. In practice, I really only use about 7 different openings, and they've managed to work effectively for 95% of the games I play.
If you haven't noticed, to the left there are three examples of standard openings. A standard opening consists of five things: 1) 12-14 pieces used before going for first T-Spin, with two (or going to be two) of each color. Thanks to 7-Bag randomization, we can virtually guarantee an opening made of two of every piece. 2) One red in the normal location on the right, one in the center/right, and two purples in the center/right. Note: except for very extenuating circumstances, do not put purples or reds anywhere except for on the right. 3) A flat 3-wide matrix in the rightmost three rows of the center, like the shown below. The significance of this shall be explained in the next section.
4) Two T-spin slots. 5) A left side with a "hump" of two blocks--that is to say, left side is never flat. There is always a net differential of 2 (plus or minus a multiple of 4) in height between the roles, with the average height having a rescaled height of 0. By creating two T-spin slots, you add in those two extra blocks that were taken away by the T-spin slots onto the left side.
When you start with your opening make sure you take a good look at the queue line. Once you work up several of your starting openings, a quick glance at the queue line will tell you what pieces will be coming up, so you'll know if your opening is currently feasible or not. The best openings are those that are flexible, since they allow account for more "randomness" and thus allow you to restart less.
The theory behind using two purples and a red in your opening is that it immediately makes you lead with red, which is what is ideal for you. However, if you didn't use two purples and only placed one you would be hard-pressed to place something like a square piece. Lastly, placing the two purples and the red raise the stack, allowing for nearly completed lines to be converted into T-Spin doubles. If you tried T-Spinning as quickly as you could with your first red and purple, it's almost no doubt you'd get either a T-Spin null or a T-Spin single. While a T-Spin null is okay (400 points for no lines cleared with a T-Spin), you should still shy away from it since it takes a very long time to drop a T piece for those 400 points. At lower levels, this can be okay, but the faster you get the higher your opportunity cost of time is for dropping those T pieces. As for a T-Spin single, dodge those since you will first have to use a single to clear the remaining line and you won't have your bonus for back-to-back T-Spin doubles.
Now, I'm going to show you a demonstration for an opening, and what mindset you should approach openings with. ]343[ played the opening and played the game, and these are his thoughts (which are very synonymous to what I would say, considering I taught him how to play Ultra).
Notice the order of the pieces in the queue: Green, Orange, Purple, Blue, Long, Yellow.
We don't want to softdrop, which dropping a green would force us to do. So we hold and drop an orange piece.
As we continue with our opening, we often need to hold pieces we don't want. Here, we will hold this green in favor of the held purple piece.
The finished opening. Note that two purples and one red are used in the center/left. Also note that we have two more green used than orange, so we need a way to use an extra orange.
To do this, we finish the green/orange in the center and place a lone orange on the left, allowing us to only be leading by one orange. We are now ready to do our first T-Spin.
Success! Note that this is much slower (52 seconds for the first T-Spin) than you should be going once you get the hang of it. Top players average 5-7 seconds in their opening setup before scoring their first T-Spin.
The second T-Spin in action. Tetrisfriends keeps track of line clears; if one executes a string of Tetrises or T-Spin Doubles, Tetrises or T-Spin Doubles after the first ones are worth 1.5x as many points as they would ordinarily be worth. This is called the "back-to-back" bonus, and it is essential in raising your score. This means that clearing singles, doubles, triples, or T-Spin Singles is bad!
As we can see, there are many things one must think about during the opening. Don't rush it; take a few seconds if you need to and check out the pieces, then proceed. After you drop your first T-Spin, the game moves into the middle phase, which is dominated by T-Slot and left side thought, and we will go over this in the next section.
Center Stacking
As explained above, T-Slots are created by the red on the right and the center in the middle. This section of the guide will teach you how to create a systematized pattern of T-Slots through careful stacking of the center.
For this section, we have a new term to learn. Combinations are the center portions of the T-Slot that comprise of two pieces that leave one open hole for the T-Slot. In the same vein, double combinations use four pieces and create two T-Slots, and so forth and so on. Generally speaking though, any combination above 4 pieces is very rare and is generally considered showy and superfluous (not to mention slower), and even double combinations themselves are rare. Once the opening is complete, the player may begin stacking combination upon combination. There are many different combinations, but they all share similar traits:
Bottom-right corner is open for T-Slot
Each combination covers a 3x3 square and uses two pieces.
And a corollary clause to the above statement is that each combination ends with a 3-wide flat top, allowing another combination to be stacked upon it.
Do you remember above when we were learning about pairings and leading/trailing? Well, it's time to put that knowledge into effect. Let's look at some of the basic combinations.
The basic combinations: Green-Orange, Yellow-Blue, Orange-Yellow, and Red-Blue.
Out of these four, GO and YB should be your staples for combinations. They are quick to set up, requiring only two taps right and three rotates to set both pieces in place. Furthermore, GO and YB are perfect brother pairs, which means that you can maintain perfect 1:1 correspondence. Another piece of terminology to know is "capping": where you complete a combination by putting the second piece on top of it.
Anyway, why are GO and YB optimal over OY? Simple, because using OY means that there is an extra green floating around. In short, green now leads orange, and by using even one more orange without using a green will most likely cause you to end up with two greens and no place to put both of them, forcing a restart. Luckily though, through extensive luck and playtime I've discovered a few ways to dodge getting killed by double greens with special double combinations. I will go over those at the end of this section.
Red-Blue is a combination that you will only want to do once, maybe twice. The first time should be when you are performing your opening, and you need a red piece on the left/center to bring up your stack. The second red piece is also used in the same manner, since at some point your stack will become too low to support completing T-Spin doubles. That will be covered more in depth in the section Red Piece Usage. In short, you don't even have to use RB as a combination. Just know that as an ultimate failsafe, you will have an extra red (red leading purple) in hold at the beginning of the game that gives you a free swap and combination when you have two pieces in a row you simply can't use. Beware though, like I said it's a one-shot thing, and doing that causes you to have a purple leading, which decreases your overall options (lessens your holding ability).
Double combinations are more rare, and more situational. How will you know when to use them? Well, it depends on the double combination in question. I've compiled a list of the "normal" double combinations here, so let's take a look at them.
These are all definitely situational. For instance, the first one is optimal when you need to get rid of an orange and use your red at the same time. Second one gets rid of yellows, third gets rid of a blue, last one two blues...
Honestly, there's not much practical use for double combinations, though they definitely look much flashier. They do serve their purposes, yes, but for the most part until you get to the point where the double combination saves you that tenth of a second, you're better off playing it safe (keeping the correct leads) with normal combinations.
And now we get into the truly situational combinations. One requires a four-wide flat top. One more requires the right-most row of the left side to be two blocks up, and another requires that same row to be two blocks down.
Situational to the max.
If there's one thing you can notice though, these combinations all get rid of a leading green, at least. So here's the thing: normally you won't even see these combinations until you're in a situation where you're in trouble. And at that time, this is just pure luck. It all depends on your left side and how many T-Spins you've done... Best not to get caught in these situations. However, if you can pull these off they are the pinnacle of 'flashiness', and people watching your replay will be impressed. Actually, I try to pull these off a lot now, since not moving the piece left/right as much makes it quicker to set up. Still, just like I said for the double combinations: it's faster for people starting out to just get the single combinations ingrained in their minds, so work primarily with those.
Center stacking isn't so bad by itself, now is it? The only problem is, when you have to worry about your center and left side at the same time... well, then it starts to get a bit more frustrating. Let's go ahead and take a look at left-side stacking.
Left-Side Stacking
The left side makes or breaks a game, more often than not. The key to being good at ST stacking is to be good at keeping your left side well-managed. This means that you should be careful about how you place things, what you "dump" over there, and how you balance it in terms with your combinations. I talked about it briefly above, but in the four-wide matrix of the left side there are two extra blocks, so the playing field is never flat. This, actually, works out in your favor--many times you'll need to place a green on the left side, and if the playing field were flat the green would not fit well.
Speaking of green pieces and how much we dislike them, the left side is the perfect place to place your leading greens, since then you're able to keep them under control with a combination of blues and long pieces. As a rule of thumb, don't use oranges on the left side unless you're leading with an orange and green has been placed there, since you want to maintain leading with an orange.
First off, let's look at some of the common positions your left side will be in, and we'll discuss the pros and cons (if applicable) of each.
The many faces of the left side.
Now, another little bit of vocabulary. We're going to talk about the left side in terms of grades. No, not like A, B, C type grades, but grades as in levels. For instance, the top left diagram has the right side with two more squares needed in one row to make a flat surface, so we call that -2grade right. In the same sense, its mirror image is -2grade left, while its opposite is 2grade right/2grade left. The top middle diagram would be called 1grade right, while its counterpart is 1grade left. The center dip is -1grade center, and its counterpart with the square in between is 1grade center. Makes sense, right?
Anyway, out of these ten positions positions the six on the right are okay, while the four on the left are not. The reasoning for that is the four on the left have no protection against any errant greens that decide to stroll in. While it is true that the two rightmost also do not have any protection against green, there is a special trick we can utilize that will be talked about at the end of this section. For the middle four, obviously, greens do not post much of a threat. Indeed, I would argue that the main goal of the left side (apart from keeping even with the center stack as to continue clearing lines with T-Spin doubles) is to act as a dumping grounds for leading greens, so that the player can play safely with an orange lead.
The four positions that I talked about above are all pretty good at preventing greens from doing irreparable damage. Let's take a look at how.
Dumping greens is a useful skill toi have.
As you can tell from the larger diagram on the left, the player in question decided to do two YO combinations in the center, leaving him leading two greens. Therefore, he used his good left side position along with some well-timed long blocks in order to negate the damage done by the two greens. In similar cases, one-grade and some situational two-grades can be used to nullify leading greens, so when you're working with your left side try to stay in 1grade as much as possible.
Ah, one last thing--as I mentioned above, there is a sneaky save that abuses Tetris' rotational system. Since the only degrees that matter in a rotation are the starting and finishing degrees--0 and 90--anything in between doesn't matter. In effect, you can spin pieces into locations where they could not physically go if all degrees of rotation were taken into effect. This is actually how the T-Spin works, but it also applies to other pieces. This used to be one of my favorite ways to get out of a damaging leading green by abusing the reverse-spin on a blue block.
Defying the law of barriers.
The trick is simple. I was stuck in a 2grade right, and had a leading green I couldn't place anywhere else. If you stick it like I did on top of the protruding two blocks, you can soft drop a blue into the location as shown in the second figure, and then hit z (reverse spin) to spin the blue block in. This definitely saves you from restarting, but you do lose precious seconds from having to softdrop the blue block.
Just thought that would be interesting!
Now, what would a Tetris game be without Tetrises? Yes, our primary focus in ST Stacking is the T-Spin, but let's not forget about the trusty Tetris.
Tetrising
Let's do the math. When you do a T-Spin double, it clears 2 lines, or twenty blocks. However, in order to get to that position you need more than 21 blocks in place (since you have to have the T-slot covered on top). Therefore, you slowly will build up your stack. As it gets closer to the top of the screen, you should bring it down. Luckily, ST Stacking has a built-in method for attaining Tetrises after a certain number of T-Spins. Namely, four.
Preparing the Tetris.
If you haven't noticed yet, when you clear lines there's one red Tetromino left as residue. Over time, they build up, and after four have been placed you can put long blocks on either side, and that will clear the resulting four lines. If given a choice though, you should always place the long block in the rightmost column, since if you place it in the left-sided column the next red piece may cover it up, and who knows when you'll want to/need to Tetris?
Clearing the lines.
Now, one more thing. Should you Tetris early or late? If you Tetris early, you get more points from dropping pieces, since for each line hard dropped you get two points, and a point per soft drop. In normal Tetris, it's logical to clear Tetrises as low as possible, to make use of the extra points from dropping. However, when ST Stacking you should not care too much about these points. After all, what's an extra 8 points (four lines cleared from a Tetris times two points a line) compared to 1800 from a T-Spin double? As you go along playing and get faster, you realize the limiting factor to your score is how slowly the T block drops. Therefore, when you are ST stacking you want to keep your stack as high as possible, that way when you are T-Spinning it takes less time for the T-Spin to drop, which gives you more potential points. When you get close to the end of the game, then you should use your Tetrises.
This is the second-to-last section in this guide, and it's going to be very short. However, it is an instrumental part to the game, so it's worth learning. Let's talk about our second red piece.
Red Piece Usage
Now, earlier I said that you build up your stack even as you clear lines from T-Spin doubles due to the residual pieces. However, once you factor Tetrising in there your net differential is negative now, meaning that after a certain period of time you will no longer be able to do T-Spins with completed lines.
At this point, you should now sacrifice your leading red piece. Doing so gives you an extra full set to a set-and-a-half's worth of pieces to rebuild your left and center, allowing you to continue T-Spin Doubling.
The red piece is a Goldilocks case.
Using your red too early (left picture) causes you to have to Tetris prematurely, which costs you potential points since you're taking longer to T-Spin. However, if you choose to use your red too late (right picture) you may run the risk of forcing a T-Spin single, or even a T-Spin null. Both cases are bad, so let's choose something where we get it just right. As a general rule of thumb, using it between 32-38 lines cleared is pretty optimal.
And we come to our final section. Performing well through the first minute and 40 seconds is all fine and dandy, but you get a lot of points in the last twenty seconds, due to last-second Tetrising. Read this last little bit to learn how to maximize your endgame scoring.
Closing
Ideally, when you get to the end your stack will be pretty high. You should hold off Tetrising until probably the last ten seconds, and try to get as many T-Spins in as possible, since they're worth more than Tetrises. However, during those last ten seconds spam if you have to, but get those long pieces out on the field and dropped. High scores are set in the last five seconds, and the way you finish your game really defines you as a player. Ideally, you want to end with a T-Spin or Tetris. Never give up trying to set one up, keep pushing yourself.
Me almost two years ago. I spammed those last five pieces to get to the long, then dropped that Tetris with half a second to go.
Me now. Should have gone for that last Tetris.
Postscript
Well, 10000 posts down. I think I've definitely lost my spammy drive (LRing takes too much effort these days) now, but really, post count doesn't matter. I'd been meaning to do this guide since 5000, but never really got around to it. If you read this all the way through, you're a monster and there's something wrong with you. But, thank you. And to the rest, hey if you opened the page it's good enough.
I remember going on Tetris friends and seeing who played tetris...
Then I saw that you were a gosu and then after watching the replay on how you got such a high score I saw this. I was surprised! With this guide I can be just like you! <3
Very impressive. This guy mentions that ]343[ is the number two Tetris Ultra player in the world, without mentioning who is number one. Should be obvious who is number one .
I would play on TF, but ever since they added new -delay variables that you could only get by mass grinding, I've completely lost interest.
I've been holding off on learning ST stacking for the longest time so thanks for the guide. Ever since Tetris Party Deluxe on the DS came out I've been exclusively learning how to combo better :/
Thanks for the awesome writeup! I've been trying to learn to T-spin faster and this definitely helped. I saw your name at the top of the Ultra list a few months back and remembered you from TL. T-spins are also great for Arena since they send just as many blocks as tetrises. Great job and congrats on 10k!
Oh gosh, I never knew Tetris could be this intimidating. Often, I just played based on my "luck" depending on the randomization of the pieces but wow, I never knew that this randomization was not so random after all and that it could be used to an advantage. o_O Ahhhhhh, kudos to you for all your effort in this *clap*! =3 EDIT: And congratulations on your 10,000th post!
woah awesome guide, i was reading the intro thinking three years for a guide is just lazy, i definitely wasnt thinking that at the end not really a fan of the t-spin rule when theres good old fashoned tetris to get, guess ill never be a tetris pro
I just wanted to point out that you can also play Tetris on Tetrinet, using the Blocktrix client. I don't know what the popular servers are anymore, but tetrinet.org and tetridome.com used to be.
Tetrinet supports up to 6 players and allows stuff like special blocks and AI bots, although probably won't be too newbie-friendly since everyone who still plays it is pretty hardcore.
I started practicing this a week ago after watching a TL member stream himself playing tetris. I managed to figure most of it out but couldn't stack the left side properly.
Very well written. Explanatory, Informative, and Exciting! I actually went to a the tetrisfriends site and played a few games before realizing that I'm awful at it.
Haven't finished reading it yet but I think its worth mentioning... When I was learning the formation for ultra I found a video and it was like, flamewheel is amazing at tetris or smt. And I was like holy crap thats flamewheel from tl! I'm ceiling at ~35000 now, maybe this guide will help me break it!
On December 09 2010 04:22 s.a.y wrote: I actually started to mass game tetrisfriends once i saw that a TL.net user is ranked first in Ultra.
Congrats on 10k! I read the whole thing. I think it will make a lot more sense if I actually play it. I got lost on the colors since I don't have an ingrained association with color and shape like I'm sure you do.
Still an awesome guide though. I usually prefer surviving as long as possible only making tetrises over getting a ridiculous high score.
Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
TGM is great. I'm not particularly good at it since it's ARS. I think I topped out around M1 or M2 in terror instinct.
You should check out blockbox, they have TGM emulation as well as some of the highest speed players around. + Show Spoiler +
Wow this guide is extremely comprehensive and contains just the right level of detail. I always played VS mode and stood away from Ultra but I'm willing to give this a go now. Hopefully those years spend playing tetris cascade and cultris will come in handy.
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
TGM is great. I'm not particularly good at it since it's ARS. I think I topped out around M1 or M2 in terror instinct.
You should check out blockbox, they have TGM emulation as well as some of the highest speed players around. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_RJedOxZk
Is that real? Why would he leave the hole in the center?
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
TGM is great. I'm not particularly good at it since it's ARS. I think I topped out around M1 or M2 in terror instinct.
You should check out blockbox, they have TGM emulation as well as some of the highest speed players around. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_RJedOxZk
Is that real? Why would he leave the hole in the center?
you only have a certain number of lines that you clear a level, so he knew how many and what type of pieces he had left, and he solved the question of "what pieces do i have left with how many lines remaining" to figure out how to max his score.
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
TGM is great. I'm not particularly good at it since it's ARS. I think I topped out around M1 or M2 in terror instinct.
You should check out blockbox, they have TGM emulation as well as some of the highest speed players around. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_RJedOxZk
Is that real? Why would he leave the hole in the center?
you only have a certain number of lines that you clear a level, so he knew how many and what type of pieces he had left, and he solved the question of "what pieces do i have left with how many lines remaining" to figure out how to max his score.
? No why would he put it in the center instead of against the wall, its much harder to fill two areas of four and 5 equally than one continuos area of 9. I thinks there's some kind of miscommunication here, that was sprint not ultra
Yeah i kinda needed this guide. I taught my self how to ST, however i have trouble with the set up sometimes, where i'll have to soft drop and do awkward Z and L spins to get the set up right. Your aspect for setting for this guide is great. Also, flamewheel i'm just curious, were you the one who talked to me in my tetris stream the other night?
Ok, getting the basic technique down now, openings are still a pain though. Is it really possible to open "according to plan" after 14 blocks every single time?
Also I watched your replay. You are a god among men.
i watched the replay on tetrisfriends (lol tetris reps. i would've never thought they existed) of flamewheel's top score and i thought it was fast forwarded LOL
how would you recommend a beginner start learning how to do all this? it just seems very overwhelming. what should i practice first? only focus on openings until i get decent at it?
This post makes me happy :D I got pretty highly rated on Tetris DS through nothing but being really fast at tetrising, and there were only a few dozen people that could T-Spin like that lol. Played a bit of Tetris Friends too but never learned how to T-Spin at all.
This is incredible, I'm so happy you finished it. Thanks!
whats the deal with the tetrisfriends leaderboard, it shows you at #2 with the top score being 274k but when you click the game he only scores 55k or so
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
TGM is great. I'm not particularly good at it since it's ARS. I think I topped out around M1 or M2 in terror instinct.
You should check out blockbox, they have TGM emulation as well as some of the highest speed players around. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_RJedOxZk
Is that real? Why would he leave the hole in the center?
you only have a certain number of lines that you clear a level, so he knew how many and what type of pieces he had left, and he solved the question of "what pieces do i have left with how many lines remaining" to figure out how to max his score.
? No why would he put it in the center instead of against the wall, its much harder to fill two areas of four and 5 equally than one continuos area of 9. I thinks there's some kind of miscommunication here, that was sprint not ultra
The answer is quite logical, and that is that it requires less key presses on average to stack using that method than a wall gap. Also a small correction, he doesn't stack 4, 5 fields, it's 6, 3. If you want an in detail analysis of this method visit Harddrop
I read the first half, skimmed trough the middle and read the ending. Awesome. It' so cool to see these games being figured out far beyond seemed possible to you at first.
This was interesting, I gave it a try for a few hours and the best I manged to do was 5 T-spins for about 8500 points.
Using my way, I got about 10500, but I've been doing that for a few years, so I'm willing to concede to a superior methodology.
A few things that would've helped me learn faster that I found out through trial and error:
1. The opening is a giant mess. Just try to get your two spin slots set up and don't leave any holes. 2. If you screw up by having to lay down a purple that isn't double-line T-Spin, you can still keep going. Just put the next red as far right as possible and set it down like you normally would. It will still line up properly with your next T-Spin and you'll just have a few rows of garbage at the bottom to ignore. 3. You can leave holes in the left side at no expense. However, they have to be in the bottom row of your 3x3 blocks you're forming in the center-right "combo columns", or they'll block you. Or, described another way, one row above where your T-Spin slots are.
I'm aware most of this isn't relevant for high score attempts, but it lets you learn a lot faster.
On December 09 2010 01:16 barbsq wrote: damn, since when did tetris become this complicated ~.~
edit: oh and grats on 10K
Well this pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Really nice read and you can tell by the wall of text you did put a lot of time/effort into it. I wish to congratulate you on both, this thread and 10k!
Wanted to send you my thanks an resentment as I have never played tetris before but after reading your guide I've given it a few ours of attempts and have managed 13k score. The resentment comes as I have finals to study for which and starcraft 2 to play ><. haha anyway thanks for the guide and gratz on your 10k post and birthday to boot! (belated i know)
This makes me feel like I took a year to complete a rubik's cube only to find out there are guides online and any child could've read one and done it in a day or less.
Dam, I've been trying this for days now. Opening + left side stacking are the hardest parts hands down - I've only managed to get around 18k points, lol.
I read most of the OP and it was great, but the title made me think it was some guide to some Ultralisk stacking abuse, so I was kinda disappointed. Oh well, I can always just dream of ultras stacking like mutas.
This is outright amazing. Gonna go try it out now :D Edit: HOLY SHIT IT WORKS O_O Just saw a video... But how am I supposed to set it up and not die D:
well, it's a well made game, but i still have to say it's nothing like the original tetris. i can see the next five pieces coming? wtf is up with that? it's supposed to be you can just see the the very next piece. and holding? that's just so lame. i understand tetris is a very difficult game, but why make it this easy for the player? getting only tetrises and always being prepared for the next piece is what the game was originally about, now it's all of a sudden evolved far beyond by comprehension. i guess that's why i'm raging so much about it. but the grid just showing exactly where the piece would land, seeing the next five pieces and being able to move pieces around almost indefinitely when they've landed before locking probably just made my brain go boom. tetrisfriends really pissed me off.
trying t-spins was kind of fun for a while, though. i just think that tetrisfriends really raped the game beyond recognition. i'm a little sad.
lol i remember hearing a story that flamewheels score got DQd because facebook thought he was a bot or something, and he posted a video to prove it but his score wasn't restored
On December 11 2010 00:08 meffo wrote: well, it's a well made game, but i still have to say it's nothing like the original tetris. i can see the next five pieces coming? wtf is up with that? it's supposed to be you can just see the the very next piece. and holding? that's just so lame. i understand tetris is a very difficult game, but why make it this easy for the player? getting only tetrises and always being prepared for the next piece is what the game was originally about, now it's all of a sudden evolved far beyond by comprehension. i guess that's why i'm raging so much about it. but the grid just showing exactly where the piece would land, seeing the next five pieces and being able to move pieces around almost indefinitely when they've landed before locking probably just made my brain go boom. tetrisfriends really pissed me off.
trying t-spins was kind of fun for a while, though. i just think that tetrisfriends really raped the game beyond recognition. i'm a little sad.
original tetris is fine but it is way too much luck dependent. With the hold-place and seeing more than one next piece the game becomes way more strategic and skill demanding.
On December 11 2010 00:16 Hot_Bid wrote: lol i remember hearing a story that flamewheels score got DQd because facebook thought he was a bot or something, and he posted a video to prove it but his score wasn't restored
On December 11 2010 00:08 meffo wrote: well, it's a well made game, but i still have to say it's nothing like the original tetris. i can see the next five pieces coming? wtf is up with that? it's supposed to be you can just see the the very next piece. and holding? that's just so lame. i understand tetris is a very difficult game, but why make it this easy for the player? getting only tetrises and always being prepared for the next piece is what the game was originally about, now it's all of a sudden evolved far beyond by comprehension. i guess that's why i'm raging so much about it. but the grid just showing exactly where the piece would land, seeing the next five pieces and being able to move pieces around almost indefinitely when they've landed before locking probably just made my brain go boom. tetrisfriends really pissed me off.
trying t-spins was kind of fun for a while, though. i just think that tetrisfriends really raped the game beyond recognition. i'm a little sad.
More preview pieces makes the game less random, and also increases potential speed. It might make the game easier, but it adds another skill to the game. Instead of mentally placing one next piece, you have to mentally place 5.
Adding T-spins and combos added a lot of depth to a game where stacking for tetrisis became pretty easy for most players. Again raising the skill cap.
Infinite lock delay is kinda dumb, but it really only affects marathon fans, all other modes are punished for abusing it.
Personally, I think from a multi-player perspective, they moved the game in the right direction. Plus if you're stubborn they have a retro mode :D
I read it! I did! And My freinds alredy know there is someting wrong with me Great post and I never knew tetris was player like this. Hopefully their is glipa on youtube I can watch intill I get of the train!
On December 11 2010 00:16 Hot_Bid wrote: lol i remember hearing a story that flamewheels score got DQd because facebook thought he was a bot or something, and he posted a video to prove it but his score wasn't restored
wow thanks for this thread, I've been playing tetris on my cellphone (haha its not as bad as you think) for years now and i've been completely focused on mainly always tetris-ing at quick speed until the end of the game. Even with knowledge of what t-spins were i never figured a way to continually do it. This thread opens up a whole new world of tetris making it feel like I'm playing it for the first time.
Just wondering something though, when opening ive seen there are basically 2 ways to start the center section...1)with the bottom 6/9(of the 3x3 area closest to the bottom of C) being occupied by 2 pieces(ie green and yellow in 2nd opening pic)... and 2) with 8/9(all but top right of the 3x3 area closest to bottom of C) being occupied by 2 pieces(ie orange and green in 1st opening pic)
k well my problem is that it seems with the latter opening (option 2) it is really a lot harder to set up the C-section for t-spins with the provided basic center stacking combinations(in the configuration shown on page1 - sorry i'm new and i don't really know how posting pictures work lol) and i do realize you compensate for this by stacking 2 yellow's on top of the orange-green opening), but what i've been starting to see is that those 2 yellow's seem unnecessary if you use the same basic center stacking combinations but in different configs (ie rotated and whatnot).
k so my question is....Is that something you've accounted for and found out that in the late-game that it is just way easier to have those yellow's there to start just so you can use the center stacking combinations in the configs you are use to? or does it have to do with the left side stacking (and i also know that instead of 2 yellows you could use a 2orange or 2blue but that screws with the order of which the pieces come in usually)
lol anyway....very long question and please just disregard this if i'm making absolutely no sense, i'm just a huge fan of tetris and sc(obviously)
Wow so fast, can't believe it lol. You should try to do an instructional video and explain things as you go. Might be hard because of the speed but I'm sure theres a way. I can provide software if you need it, camtasia and such.
On December 09 2010 01:35 DarkOptik wrote: Very impressive. This guy mentions that ]343[ is the number two Tetris Ultra player in the world, without mentioning who is number one. Should be obvious who is number one .
I would play on TF, but ever since they added new -delay variables that you could only get by mass grinding, I've completely lost interest.
Actually I just did like two or three of the short "watch this commercial" thing or whatever and got the tuning settings. Honestly wasn't that bad!
On December 09 2010 08:14 Mr Tambourine Man wrote: Awesome post! I love tetris. I actually always have my 1989 gameboy tetris closeby for some line making. I also like the grandmaster series, do you also play that? I actually play Texmaster, which is practically the same, but playable on a computer. Anyone else here play TGM style tetris?
Never played that; seems so old school haha. I just played on my TI-83 calculator back in math class.
On December 09 2010 11:34 eatmyshorts5 wrote: Yeah i kinda needed this guide. I taught my self how to ST, however i have trouble with the set up sometimes, where i'll have to soft drop and do awkward Z and L spins to get the set up right. Your aspect for setting for this guide is great. Also, flamewheel i'm just curious, were you the one who talked to me in my tetris stream the other night?
Yeah that was me. You're doing well, just have to work on not getting into difficult situations. And seriously when you mess up you have to abort or else you die haha.
On December 09 2010 13:19 onihunter wrote: thanks for the very informative guide
how would you recommend a beginner start learning how to do all this? it just seems very overwhelming. what should i practice first? only focus on openings until i get decent at it?
I would say just work on the opening. Honestly that's the most daunting part, since after that the center is easy to set up based on combinations. After you get the opening down just focus on setting up the left side so that you don't run into sticky situations. It'll take a while but it gets easier as you go along.
On December 09 2010 15:19 heyoka wrote: This is incredible, I'm so happy you finished it. Thanks!
whats the deal with the tetrisfriends leaderboard, it shows you at #2 with the top score being 274k but when you click the game he only scores 55k or so
Score glitches for him for some reason. Kind of sucks, TF banned his original account because they thought he was hacking. Really, it's just their scoring system messing up for some reason. He was actually like #6 with 64k in actuality. Now he's just trolling them.
On December 10 2010 05:38 FaZ- wrote: This was interesting, I gave it a try for a few hours and the best I manged to do was 5 T-spins for about 8500 points.
Using my way, I got about 10500, but I've been doing that for a few years, so I'm willing to concede to a superior methodology.
A few things that would've helped me learn faster that I found out through trial and error:
1. The opening is a giant mess. Just try to get your two spin slots set up and don't leave any holes. 2. If you screw up by having to lay down a purple that isn't double-line T-Spin, you can still keep going. Just put the next red as far right as possible and set it down like you normally would. It will still line up properly with your next T-Spin and you'll just have a few rows of garbage at the bottom to ignore. 3. You can leave holes in the left side at no expense. However, they have to be in the bottom row of your 3x3 blocks you're forming in the center-right "combo columns", or they'll block you. Or, described another way, one row above where your T-Spin slots are.
I'm aware most of this isn't relevant for high score attempts, but it lets you learn a lot faster.
These three things all work very well in non-Ultra settings, but if you are trying to set a high score you definitely can't afford to mess up. Leaving holes in the left side breaks your Tetrising and forces you to downstack earlier. What you've said about the red piece is completely correct, though if you're doing it in non-Ultra settings (Arena) you'll have to worry about those few new (semi-permanent) lines of garbage since you can't clear them without breaking ST.
You can definitely try to do this, since it's what I did when I started out. But honestly, after going through it myself then teaching my roommate the correct way to do it, I can see that learning correctly from the start is way, way quicker.
On December 11 2010 13:08 paksam wrote: wow thanks for this thread, I've been playing tetris on my cellphone (haha its not as bad as you think) for years now and i've been completely focused on mainly always tetris-ing at quick speed until the end of the game. Even with knowledge of what t-spins were i never figured a way to continually do it. This thread opens up a whole new world of tetris making it feel like I'm playing it for the first time.
Just wondering something though, when opening ive seen there are basically 2 ways to start the center section...1)with the bottom 6/9(of the 3x3 area closest to the bottom of C) being occupied by 2 pieces(ie green and yellow in 2nd opening pic)... and 2) with 8/9(all but top right of the 3x3 area closest to bottom of C) being occupied by 2 pieces(ie orange and green in 1st opening pic)
k well my problem is that it seems with the latter opening (option 2) it is really a lot harder to set up the C-section for t-spins with the provided basic center stacking combinations(in the configuration shown on page1 - sorry i'm new and i don't really know how posting pictures work lol) and i do realize you compensate for this by stacking 2 yellow's on top of the orange-green opening), but what i've been starting to see is that those 2 yellow's seem unnecessary if you use the same basic center stacking combinations but in different configs (ie rotated and whatnot).
k so my question is....Is that something you've accounted for and found out that in the late-game that it is just way easier to have those yellow's there to start just so you can use the center stacking combinations in the configs you are use to? or does it have to do with the left side stacking (and i also know that instead of 2 yellows you could use a 2orange or 2blue but that screws with the order of which the pieces come in usually)
lol anyway....very long question and please just disregard this if i'm making absolutely no sense, i'm just a huge fan of tetris and sc(obviously)
thanks! (best guide ever!)
Rotating center combinations 90 degrees is definitely feasible, but through testing it takes more time to set up combinations after that, and then you run the problem of having your left side in a different configuration, since the two extra blocks that you get normally make it very easy to build your left side without fail.
lol cool i spent like 30min practicing this (im terrible at tetris, level ~16 on tetris friends) and i got a solid 14k! well, higher than my previous 12k (although i didn't particularly try for it.. but still) i restart too frigging often >.<
also i'll have to re-read your left-side part of the guide again, i end up winging that completely. also i really prefer GO over YB because i can always stick YBs in the left side but greens are annoying, haha one of these days ill get 70k! <,<
so, great guide. inspired some people to play tetris im sure
Awesome tutorial man, I'm one of the better marathon players on the site, I was 6th at my peak on facebook, and then when I switched to tetrisfriends I was 4th. I think I'm 20th or so now on the site, but its good to see Tetris being discussed on a higher level since none of my friends even come close to me.
I'll have to get into ultra, always thought it was kinda luck based so I avoided it, but your way of accounting for every 7 pieces in a predictable way like that definitely is not. Thanks for the awesome post, not I have to get into ultra.
lol i just watched a replay of someone doing "ZT" stacking (mirrored version of this) looked funny he didn't do exceptionally well or anything, but a solid 50k score (pwns me that's for sure)
btw @flamewheel, what was your score before they thought u cheated and removed it?
On December 12 2010 11:19 JeeJee wrote: lol i just watched a replay of someone doing "ZT" stacking (mirrored version of this) looked funny he didn't do exceptionally well or anything, but a solid 50k score (pwns me that's for sure)
btw @flamewheel, what was your score before they thought u cheated and removed it?
Just topped 66k I think. Barely beat out the former #1 by like 200 points. I was so happy and had a Facebook status and everything.
Then logged back on the next day to find it removed. Whoops.
On December 12 2010 11:57 writer22816 wrote: Flamewheel you should post a tetris arena guide too!
There are so many people that are better at arena than I am ><
great stuff dude, i used to be a full tetris player and only got once to lvl20 lol i got beaten so many times by this shit and tried a few times but never succeeded thx for writing this article!!! i will definitely try it
Very awesome post. After reading it I suscribed to Tetris friends, now i'm doing some T-SPIN ACTION, and that feels awesome. I never knew that tetris became a balanced competitive game
Two excruciating days later ... I still don't understand the opening.
I have twice gotten to a place where I was able to consistently set nice and neat 2 and piece combinations in the left and middle areas and the game becomes fairly easy, although I'm not very fast. I just don't understand how I get to that part. I always have two blocks just in my way. Which leads to inevitable holes and me ripping my hair out in frustration. I undoubtedly do better at Ultra with this method than normal tetrising, but I'm so confused that I feel like I'm doing far worse.
*sigh* ... maybe tomorrow I'll figure it out. This is really beginning to eat into my StarCraft time though dammit.
On December 15 2010 16:49 Schizofriendlia wrote: Two excruciating days later ... I still don't understand the opening.
I have twice gotten to a place where I was able to consistently set nice and neat 2 and piece combinations in the left and middle areas and the game becomes fairly easy, although I'm not very fast. I just don't understand how I get to that part. I always have two blocks just in my way. Which leads to inevitable holes and me ripping my hair out in frustration. I undoubtedly do better at Ultra with this method than normal tetrising, but I'm so confused that I feel like I'm doing far worse.
*sigh* ... maybe tomorrow I'll figure it out. This is really beginning to eat into my StarCraft time though dammit.
lol i just memorized the openings my most used one is the first one of the 3, i find it's really flexible in what way the pieces fall. occasionally i do the last one (i dislike it because the second long usually doesn't come fast enough), second one almost never
i don't play this too often still, but probably spent a few hours on it. im almost up to 25k xD watch out flamewheel! i just doubled my score in 2 days lol (im like 60th in tetrisfriends daily rankings today if u wanna watch the rep and give me tips <3)
i feel like im getting kinda inflexible lol. im just focusing on the first opening, and most of my games are GO combos only (and when i do something like YB, i gotta think about it )
I was actually really into tetrisfriends for a while but I could never learn how to properly T-spin, I'd usually just play marathon and do 4-lines and then some t-spins when I saw the opportunity. I'd usually start trying the thing you outlined but I'd mess it up because I didn't know about leading and what-not! Thanks, sweet post :D
Just posting here because I have been on the edge of ranking up for the last hour in Tetrisfriends Arena only to get fucking disconnected at the last second and consequently losing a ton of rank. So fucking pissed off right now
Does anyone else get this a lot, and how the hell can you fix it (if at all)?
OK not really, but still, I don't restart as much as I used to when I started playing yesterday... For those having difficulty with the opening, I really like to put the yellow square in the center at the beginning+green on on its left or orange on its left. Then you can start center stacking as described in the guide quite easily.
edit : Thought you were joking when you said greens are nasty, I chuckled at the word nasty... Sorry for laughing... greens ARE EFFING NASTY. Just wondering, what's a average/decent score at tetris ultra, i notice you do above 65k.... I barely do 9k... but i'm trying to only do t-spins and working really hard on the openings...
Okay, I am trying this ST method, and I've only been playing Tetris for a day now, my high score right now is about 300k. My background story is that I'm trying to prove to my friends that constant Tetrises will not yield a higher score than an equally well played ST stack. My friend Timmy has 700k as his high score, and my goal is to top that by ST stacking.
Anyway, I have difficulty sometimes with the leading concept. Basically, is it that I always try to play Orange or Green first? And how about Yellow or Blue?
On December 19 2010 02:53 JamesAbrams wrote: Okay, I am trying this ST method, and I've only been playing Tetris for a day now, my high score right now is about 300k. My background story is that I'm trying to prove to my friends that constant Tetrises will not yield a higher score than an equally well played ST stack. My friend Timmy has 700k as his high score, and my goal is to top that by ST stacking.
Anyway, I have difficulty sometimes with the leading concept. Basically, is it that I always try to play Orange or Green first? And how about Yellow or Blue?
Oh and this is in Marathon. Tetris Friends.
Definitely play green before orange. Yellow and blue, like he said in the guide are more forgiving I find. it depends what you do with them, if you center stack them, go for the yellow first, but if you dump them on the left, I personally didn't notice any difference in which goes first. I might be wrong though! I'm a noob that just started too, but managed to get one of the top 100 scores of the day in ultra! XD
On December 19 2010 02:53 JamesAbrams wrote: Okay, I am trying this ST method, and I've only been playing Tetris for a day now, my high score right now is about 300k. My background story is that I'm trying to prove to my friends that constant Tetrises will not yield a higher score than an equally well played ST stack. My friend Timmy has 700k as his high score, and my goal is to top that by ST stacking.
Anyway, I have difficulty sometimes with the leading concept. Basically, is it that I always try to play Orange or Green first? And how about Yellow or Blue?
Oh and this is in Marathon. Tetris Friends.
Definitely play green before orange. Yellow and blue, like he said in the guide are more forgiving I find. it depends what you do with them, if you center stack them, go for the yellow first, but if you dump them on the left, I personally didn't notice any difference in which goes first. I might be wrong though! I'm a noob that just started too, but managed to get one of the top 100 scores of the day in ultra! XD
Saw you on the leaderboard for today, nice
Everyone who plays should put teamliquid in their quotes, I wanna see how many of the top 100 are from TL
Thanks so much for this guide, I've been tetrising quite a bit in the past few days, made it to 55 for today
So the other day I was researching Tetris methods and I stumbled across an interesting idea, I told myself I'd look back at it later, but haven't been able to retrace my steps. Anyway I think it was called the play-forever method or something like that. The entire right side was filled with nothing but a symmetrical pattern of blue, yellow, and orange. The entire left was filled with a symmetrical pattern of green, red, and purple. Each pattern on the sides was four columns wide. Anyone know a guide to this or anything?
Hey, I was wondering if anybody could help me with this. How do you guys play? I play with only my left hand on the arrows, pinky on spacebar and use shift to hold with pinky or index whatever feels right at that moment... I know I'm not being efficient because i'm not using Z and X that much... I feel it's really awkward to use those
On December 20 2010 04:27 JamesAbrams wrote: So the other day I was researching Tetris methods and I stumbled across an interesting idea, I told myself I'd look back at it later, but haven't been able to retrace my steps. Anyway I think it was called the play-forever method or something like that. The entire right side was filled with nothing but a symmetrical pattern of blue, yellow, and orange. The entire left was filled with a symmetrical pattern of green, red, and purple. Each pattern on the sides was four columns wide. Anyone know a guide to this or anything?
I've seen this before on tetris wikis. Haven't noticed a guide for it yet, but I've never searched.
On December 20 2010 12:36 PetitCrabe wrote: Hey, I was wondering if anybody could help me with this. How do you guys play? I play with only my left hand on the arrows, pinky on spacebar and use shift to hold with pinky or index whatever feels right at that moment... I know I'm not being efficient because i'm not using Z and X that much... I feel it's really awkward to use those
Left pinky shift Left ring z Left middle x Left pointer space Left thumb for scroll control
Right hand arrows. Middle up/down. Pointer left ring right.
I know it wasn't the main point of this article but understanding the bag randomization makes everything so much easier, I dropped my sprint score 7 9 seconds. Thanks Flamewheel!
On December 20 2010 12:36 PetitCrabe wrote: Hey, I was wondering if anybody could help me with this. How do you guys play? I play with only my left hand on the arrows, pinky on spacebar and use shift to hold with pinky or index whatever feels right at that moment... I know I'm not being efficient because i'm not using Z and X that much... I feel it's really awkward to use those
I really don't like having my keys spread out, when I was learning I read somewhere and adopted left hand z-x-c (c is hold) right hand arrow keys (up is hard, down is soft).
i played for quite some time this evening after going on a wild shopping spree :D despite 2 brain farts early on (lol slow-dropping an L piece before realizing "waaait a minute that's not a T piece fml") i broke 30k ^_^
i'm starting to pay attention to which piece is leading (GO-wise at least, that's the only pair i'm paying attention to). speaking of this, the OP description of leading makes no sense. i am thinking of green leading orange as in green is in front of orange (ie leading it..) whereas in the article its the other way around. weird.
shit's getting hard though. i'm starting to have execution errors moreso than "hmm so wtf do i do with this piece" errors now.
and on another sidenote, apparently the S and Z pieces rotate differently depending on clockwise or counter-cw (end up in different columns). was this always like this? blew my mind when i found out
just again, thx for the tutorial flamewheel. good stuff mayne.
Yeaaaah I shouldn't have asked how to setup your hands... I keep forgetting that as a leftie, I play really weirdly compared to others... My LEFT hand is on the arrow, and I'm trying to awkwardly cross my right hand to the other side hahaha
On December 20 2010 14:39 PetitCrabe wrote: Yeaaaah I shouldn't have asked how to setup your hands... I keep forgetting that as a leftie, I play really weirdly compared to others... My LEFT hand is on the arrow, and I'm trying to awkwardly cross my right hand to the other side hahaha
EDIT : Is there a way to customize the keys?
Yes, right in the pause menu. Click around on the binding you want to change then hit the key you want to change it to
Okay, so Flamewheel, can you explain the Tetris Friends scoring system for combos? Perhaps a brief explanation if possible. Like, ten singles in a row, or ten doubles in a row, or five singles and five doubles split up evenly, or four triples, you know, those sorts of combos. A formula would be even better than several examples. Please and thank you.
Can you tell me why your TPM is 135 for Ultra but only 142 for Sprint? Honestly, from watching your Ultra play it looks like you play at about 180 TPM (if you ignore all the tspins).
Did anybody ever play multiplayer tetrifast? It's like tetrinet but without block delays so people can lay up to 160blocks/min, I was around 120bpm and heres a video of similar speeds:
The rules of a 'pure' game is pretty simple: clear 1 line adds nothing to opponent clear 2 lines add 1 lines to opponent clear 3 lines add 2 lines to opponent clear 4 lines adds 4 lines to opponent
Since added lines only have one gap, its possible to 'downstack' quite fast. Initially the strategy is to go for 4 lines to deal maximum damage, but eventually once your stacks are high the better downstacker (typically clearing 2 lines at a time) wins the game, of course there is always some luck with good pieces.
It was great fun trying to go really fast, you need a good keyboard with high repeat speeds to achieve something like 150bpm(thats 2.5 blocks / second!), with added skill of downstacking. Last time I checked there we no longer people playing on the servers, it was never as popular as regular tetrinet, but in terms of speed tetris I've never seen anything which rivals this game. Tetrinet2 has super fast speeds too, but last time I checked it had already died.
On December 31 2010 15:24 Glasse wrote: I just got 21847 points. Obviously I'm way 2 slow and have to think 2 much but i'm getting much better. I used to not even break 10k :O
This is the only opening i can do though
yeah i'm a big fan of this opening, i even worked out some simple variations for it, such as this one (when the second green comes before the T piece)
hmm i haven't actually played in a while.. stopped after breaking 30k barrier. gonna play some more again and get half of flamewheel's score (my original goal xD)
On December 31 2010 15:24 Glasse wrote: I just got 21847 points. Obviously I'm way 2 slow and have to think 2 much but i'm getting much better. I used to not even break 10k :O
This is the only opening i can do though
yeah i'm a big fan of this opening, i even worked out some simple variations for it, such as this one (when the second green comes before the T piece)
hmm i haven't actually played in a while.. stopped after breaking 30k barrier. gonna play some more again and get half of flamewheel's score (my original goal xD)
it's good you guys found a few variants. you're on your way to 70k
On January 05 2011 05:13 PetitCrabe wrote: hey flamewheel, it seems that someone beat you.. .but after watching the replay he only did 34k lol must be a bug
lol yeah he's one of my friends actually. his high score is actually ~58k, around 24th or so.
the bug actually happened to me once (I got 300k lolol), and to another friend of mine (who got 270k?) who's now 10th (really 9th) on the leaderboard after getting two accounts banned for "hacking" (wtf why does it always happen to people I know?)
but yeah it really sucked when my score bugged because I didn't think I could regain my spot... luckily I somehow got a high score within an hour of trying (usually it takes me like 20 minutes to finish a game without screwing up >____<)
On December 22 2010 19:38 Testosterown wrote: Can you tell me why your TPM is 135 for Ultra but only 142 for Sprint? Honestly, from watching your Ultra play it looks like you play at about 180 TPM (if you ignore all the tspins).
I think it's because practicing T-spinning kind it of gets imbued into your brain so that you have almost no thinking time, whereas when you don't Tetris often, it's a bit harder to execute (since there aren't really set places to put each piece.) I for one am quite a bit slower at Tetrising than T-spinning, since I'm not actually good at Tetris like flamewheel is.
Guys can u pls help me, i am playing on Tetrisfriends for like 2 monts and i am folowing flamewheels t-spin and i have a big problem, every time i start opening for t-spin i create a spots for like 4 t-spins, then i complete them and then i just dont know how to start creating spots for t-spins again :S
On January 06 2011 06:46 Tesla12 wrote: Guys can u pls help me, i am playing on Tetrisfriends for like 2 monts and i am folowing flamewheels t-spin and i have a big problem, every time i start opening for t-spin i create a spots for like 4 t-spins, then i complete them and then i just dont know how to start creating spots for t-spins again :S
I'll help you : stop before it is too late.
More seriously though, I don't understand your problem. Maybe is your opening wrong? How exactly do you do your opening? Follow the openings mentionned in this thread and I'm sure you will be able to create for t-spins slots.
After that, when I started playing I would almost strictly only put the green and orange in the middle everything else was trash. Then later on, started putting yellow and blue. What I mean is, keep doing the same (right) thing over and over again, and when you feel super safe with it, start adding stuff to it.
PS. My girlfriend hates it when I play tetris, she says it makes me nervous
On November 16 2011 08:10 57 Corvette wrote: I'm glad someone bumped this. I know doing this is the single player games is optimal for points, but is Tspinning viable for multiplayer games?
ST-stacking is very powerful for pressure--one T-spin delivers quite a number of garbage lines. However, you have to be fast and accurate. If you get a little unlucky, you might have to stack high, leaving the possibility of a quick combo "ganking" you. Or if you mess up, you have to be really quite good to downstack and recover (since I have no Tetris game sense, I usually fail at this...) Also, it's very hard to clear garbage that is delivered to you (unless the empty blocks are in one of the tetrising slots on the right!); so sometimes, you might want to save a T and use it to block incoming garbage.
Of course, if you're playing Battle 6p or 2p on TetrisFriends, you should have no trouble just ST-stacking (a decent proportion of the level 20 players I've played against use it), since garbage is cleared when you send lines, and you're playing against replays so they won't adjust their strategy to gank you. Just don't mess up ^^
On November 17 2011 18:37 John Madden wrote: I thought this was all general knowledge gained by playing?
er, the guide? Well, sure, but I can only assume that 90% of Tetris players (even those who regularly ST-stack) don't really understand everything in it--otherwise everyone would have a score of 50k+.
On November 30 2011 21:02 shinjin wrote: lol this is the first post ive made on this site since my BW days (quit after SC2) came out
just would like to say that a friend referenced me to this guide and I'll never look at tetris the same way again
im currently at a ceiling of 36k~ right now, i really want to break 50k but I just don't really know how to speed up anymore : /
Are you playing on TF or Facebook? The latter always has stupid lag for me T_T
Don't worry, we all hit ceilings... I hit ceilings at like 40k, 55k, 60k, 65k (probably a few more than that, but I don't remember). If you find you absolutely can't improve after playing all the time, take a break! You can still think about Tetris... it's hard not to, actually... but don't play for a week or two, or longer. Personally this helped me a lot
I saw flamewheel post in the weird talent thread and I was just watching his video about him not cheating. Then a few hours later this thread appears again.
I'd like to share a finding on ST (or ZT) stacking. Some guy did a pretty nice analysis of it and found that there's no way to sustain it without wasting T-pieces in the left stack or having T-nulls. (Thread here).This is pretty because the left stack is pretty hard to fix once you add a T because it makes it kind of spiky. The paper also shows that you can sustain t-spins by alternating between ST (ZT) and JZT (LST) spinning. There isn't a really good guide on JZT spinning but this is a decent video on it. If you alternate between the two methods, you can keep t-spinning forever without ever wasting a T. :3 However, there is always the obvious question of whether or not you will actually reach the point where T-spinning becomes unsustainable in the Ultra time limit, and whether or not this matters too much as a few reconfigurations can solve this problem, at least until you run out of time. Lastly, take a look at LT (JT) stacking (here), it's pretty awesome as it sets up multiple T-spins at once, something ST (ZT) stacking doesn't do, which could make it more flexible than ST (ZT) stacking in some situations. Furthermore, as far as alternative single-player stacking patterns go, 180 rotations can get you a string of T-spin triples if you make a side stack like LSOZJ(repeated) or its mirror image and make a 7 wide normal stack. The process is hard to describe, but it is realllly flexible and somewhat easy to abuse as t-spin triples are extremely valuable. I actually think NullpoMino, a very popular tetris clone, had to add another criterion (needing another block at the back of the T) for such spins to happen since it was just too strong. Which is kind of hilarious because comboing is absurdly strong and extremely easy to use.
As someone who pretty much exclusively (and frequently) plays multiplayer, I can tell you that ST stacking is not a good idea at all. You'll be lucky to get 3 t-spins before you have to change your strategy. Having to stack up like that is ridiculously vulnerable. You're pretty much at the mercy of your bag to clear lines, and as a result this tactic is pretty in versus. Bailing out of stacking like this is pretty tough too because you'll have a lot of weird LS set ups that you may or may not be able to convert efficiently. Ah talking about this stuff gets me pretty excited. I'm actually really inspired to make an "introduction to competitive tetris" thread, but I'm not sure if there's enough interest. >.< Funnily enough, a ton of the very competitive tetris players I know also play SC2.
On December 01 2011 14:49 Antifate wrote: I'd like to share a finding on ST (or ZT) stacking. Some guy did a pretty nice analysis of it and found that there's no way to sustain it without wasting T-pieces in the left stack or having T-nulls. (Thread here).This is pretty because the left stack is pretty hard to fix once you add a T because it makes it kind of spiky.
This is already vaguely explained in flamewheel's guide. Doing tetrises will eventually deplete the height of the ST stack available for T-spinning, and you will eventually be forced to use a red piece in the center or the left side to raise your stack. Even so, after this is done, you will eventually run out of lines to perform a full T-spin double, and as you said one must "waste" T-pieces in the left stack. However, this is not necessarily seen as wasting. If you watch the replay of flamewheel's number one ranked Ultra game on tetrisfriends.com, you will see that at the end he was forced to use two T-pieces in the left to raise his stack for more T-spins. This occurred at around 100 lines cleared if I remember correctly. You will notice that after using two T-pieces in the left, his stack is significantly raised and he is basically back at his starting configuration with the "hump" of two blocks together in the left stack. I have realized that to pull this off, as I have dubbed it a "T-spin restart", you must use two T-pieces in the left stack to get the same configuration as before. If you only use one, you will end up with what you have described as "kind of spiky". The reason for this is that the T-piece is extremely unique comapred to the other pieces. If placed on a checkerboard, each of the distinct tetronimoes will have two light and two dark square covered up except for the T-piece, which will have three of one color and one of another. This is why T-pieces are best played in pairs, even while tetrising normally. In his guide, flamewheel explains that in the opening two T-pieces and one red piece must be used in the center or left side, and another goes to the right stack to set up the first T-spin. This equates to two bags of pieces. If an odd number of bags is used for the opening, the left stack will have the "spiky" effect as described before, and left side stacking will be almost impossible to sustain. It is also pretty much impossible to use more than two bags for the opening since your stack will go too high and you will invariably top out before clearing enough lines. Personally I like to forgo the step of keeping red as the leading piece in my first 32-38 lines cleared of my game, using two reds and two T-pieces in the center and left and then one to start the ST stack in the right in my opening. This saves me time because I don't have to worry about using a red in the left stack in the middle of my game; however I fully realize that this fact is only true because I'm pretty slow at ST stacking compared to the author of this guide. Keeping in mind that it takes two bags to set up an opening for ST stacking, we can observe that it is possible to restart your ST stack once you reach the "sustainable yield" of two initial bags of about 100 lines cleared, as observed in flamewheel's video. This can be done by taking a break from T-spinning in the game and using two more T-pieces and another red piece (in my case two) in the center and left stacks once your overall stack is low enough to accomodate this. This will effectively give you more lines to T-spin with, and it keeps with the brother pairing system that flamewheel describes. This method, as I have named a "T-spin restart", is entirely doable and very profitable if used as necessary. In the Ultra game mode this will probably not matter much at all since not even flamewheel needed to do the full restart, and at most you probably will have to use one or two T-pieces in the center or left to have enough lines for that last T-spin before time runs out. In other modes like marathon, however, this is pretty useful. I often practice ST stacking on my iPhone Tetris app which only has the marathon game mode, and I have performed quite a number of these restarts. This might also not be very useful in reality because by the time a restart is needed, the level of marathon is high enough and the speed is fast enough that few can keep up with the T-spinning without messing up. My point is that ST stacking is entirely sustainable and can be played forever if one is skilled enough and has knowledge of this restart method. I have thought about ST stacking a lot and about the math that goes into calculating the differentials and the lines cleared vs. lines built up, and in almost every way ST stacking seems like the perfect sustainable stacking method. Many kudos to whomever was the genius to come up with this perfect method. I would like to greatly thank flamewheel for this guide and for turning me into a Tetris fanatic who constantly nags his friends' incorrect and aesthetically displeasing ST stacking methods. This is by far the best guide I have ever read about most anything, and it has exponentially increased my grasp of the game of Tetris. Thank you!
Yes, as intuition (and many sources) tells us, ST stacking is sustainable if you do not T-spin with every T and no one is trying to argue the contrary. But because you have to waste T's, this method is suboptimal. For example, imagine the benefit if the large amount of excess blocks pretty much always leftover (with the occasional T in there if you're fast enough) were converted into points, most notably T-spins. Due to the discrepancy in substack heights that is eventually created by this method, there are times where you cannot convert every T into a T-spin. Combining this with the time limit of this particular mode, it becomes clear that methods that do get a T-spin out of every T are better.
Think about it this way. You're only getting a certain amount of T's in two minutes. Wouldn't you want to get the most out of every one? When we're talking about records and nonsense, this type of stuff becomes important. And especially on fast Tetris clones, you can easily hit the point where you need to waste a T or bail out.
In this regard, ST stacking is not a perfectly sustainable method. However, transitioning from strategy to strategy in Ultra is rather mentally demanding, and following a pattern like ST stacking is very comfortable. The additional speed one gets from adhering to this formula throughout the game must be weighed against the benefits one could get from even more efficient stacking techniques. Unfortunately, no one has really gotten familiar enough with other infinite B2B T-spin chains (often actually due to top players like flamewheel causing others to copy them) to really evaluate how this works out. But it should be understood that ST stacking is not perfect, infinite, etc.
Most of Antifate's statement is correct. In Ultra, it is true that you receive a limited number of T-pieces. Beyond the first two used in the two bags to make the beginning stack, you want to be hitting a T-spin with every single one of them. I haven't played in a while, but at IPL3 I was trying to set a new score. At some point you do have to ed up stacking another two T pieces on the left, but that's not until late in the game.
ST stacking does work infinitely though. It is entirely possible to essentially "start over" after the stack drops low enough as to become unsustainable for further T-spins. While there are certainly more efficient stacking patterns, ST stacking remains viable as long as you leave room for any piece to come up next--while demanding, it still is possible. For me it's completely routine.
This guide has literally been perfect, it was exactly what I was looking for the last few days, became addicted a few days ago after playing it for the first time after like 10 years.
And I decided I want to do ST stacking (at first I just did tetris since it was the method I had seen from the popular japanese tetris player that at the end plays invisible blocks, I am sure you know which I mean.)
So for like a week I did tetris and averaged 20-30 lines cleared on FB tetris battle, now past 3 days I practiced this and when I don't fail at the start I average 40+ despite clearly noticing I play slow, and I today got 71 lines which is amazing for me!
The problem I have encountered is the opening, and I don't really get how to approach it to solve the problems I am having with it, so I'd hope you could expand on the subject flamewheel.
I just so many times end up failing the opening and I can't wrap my head around how to solve it.
If you got some brilliant pointers to what opening I should aim for based on what the first pieces I see are, or which ones I should stay away from etc, that would be great.
To mention the game I just before typing this lost in the opening:
I got S-O-T-Z-I-J-L-L-J-Z-O-S-T-I in colors that is G-Y-P-R-L(long)-B-O-O-B-R-Y-G-P-L and from seeing S-O-T I went for the middle of the three examples you have of "standard" openings. But once I got to the J-L-L-J it all went pretty bad.
Another similar one I got today was:
S-O-J-T-Z-L-I-L-J-Z-O-S-T-I which I tried do the same opening for and ended up with the identical problem, which I have gotten way more then just two times.
As I understand it the 7 first pieces are all the 7 different ones, so with a 5 piece preview I basicly know one important thing: The order of which I get them
My problem comes with the second wave of pieces. From seeing the first pieces I pick one of the three examples shown and then it is often a gamble for me on getting the next 7 pieces in the right order.
My brother just got me into tetris friends and people are good as hell i rage quit more in tetris than SC so thank your Flamewheel with this hopefully i will become a tetris pro in less than a week.
haha i've always wanted to become a cool t-spinner since everyone at my school and all my friends are still just lame tetris stackers (i am the best tho) but i didn't know where to start, thx now i will secure my place as tetris god among my friends even harder and be a lot better in general :>
flamewheel, do you happen to know nrg.cheese? he goes to my school and he is fucking fast at tspin through this guide and tips from him, i boosted my st stacking score to 47k which i think is pretty decent
you should make a guide for tspin tetris...which looks even harder xD
Thank you flamewheel. I have gotten my score to 57.9k on tetrisfriends thanks to your guide, after a year of playing. I have reached the top 50 all time best and one day beat you!
Is there a way of playing tetris 2p battle with my friends? I know you can challenge on facebook but theres bombs and handicap. On tetris arena, the game stops after the first ko. Is there a way of playing arena with 5 kos?
Depends. The metric that actually signifies something is TPM. Tetris Battle matches against replays are trivial to finish quickly and lines sent in TF Arena matches vary. My 40 clear is around 40 seconds, so that's looking around 140 TPM.
Wow that's crazy. My 40 clear is only around 50 seconds. I know that Tetris Battle doesn't measure your TPM, is there another tetris app that does? (I've only been using Tetris Battle and Tetris Friends up to this point)