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On April 26 2013 02:04 daemir wrote:
The absolute single best thing about the sPvP in GW2 is still the fact that everybody starts from the same line. Everyone has access to same gear and stats from the moment they create their character, so gear is effectively not a factor in it. Think WoW arenas where you don't need to grind your gear. It's just your skills and teamplay that decide the whole thing.
Those were the reasons why there was some clout to this game in the beta. But WoW's arenas are a million times better than guild wars' pvp system minus the fact that you need to grind gear. But WoW has a private arena server anyway where you don't need to grind for gear so that's a moot point too.
No spectator mode
No way to actually make your own games (this is huge, because the lack of this basic feature completely killed any competitive E-sport side to it)
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On April 26 2013 01:37 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 17:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:I think that's a pretty dismissive viewpoint that ignores all the struggle people had with GW2 PvP in the past. When the game came out, there was an expectation (set by ANet themselves) about the state that PvP was going to be in. It was something they fawned over, particularly after the initial live SPvP event footage. There were teams of 5 preparing practice schedules and doing theorycrafting, teambuilding, and map analysis from experiences from the beta and footage. Some of these even had sponsors quite literally preparing for expenditures on tournaments right out the gate. Guild Wars (the original game) started with very good PvP systems right out the gate and only got better as ANet matured as a developer and got more in touch with the needs of PvP players. I mean, they've fucking had 100,000 USD tournaments in 2007 when the idea of professional gaming was something more or less laughed at by the entire Western world. And the game released with utterly broken SPvP and tournament system. The PvP community on the official forums spoke in one voice, and it was pretty obvious that the state of PvP was not acceptable, much less conducive to competition and all the things that can follow. It's hard to convey into words the opportunity that ANet had to make everything right (they were given serious, measured feedback) and to establish their game as having potential to be a competitive arena. Roughly 2 months after release, ANet had firmly established (through their actions) that PvP was a secondary concern at best in their hierarchy. What's really frustrating about this is that ANet devs (on their forums) filled every response to criticism with promises - promises that players and sponsors took in good faith and which weren't delivered upon. To say that adding new features now is "too little, too late" is under-exaggerating how far they missed the mark. Imagine a brand new city is built. It's hugely popular and quickly grows explosively in population and in its internal economy. Business is booming and standard of living is skyrocketing. But there's a big problem - a series of storms will soon cause the nearby river to swell until it eventually swallows up the city. People campaign for a dam, and the mayor gives out lots of assurances, but nothing is done in the end. The city ends up being totally flooded and practically abandoned. After this happens, the mayor's office commissions a new dam, which is finished months after the disaster. The city is GW2 PvP, and these features (and many others) are the dam. To say, "well at least they're still going strong" after the city has been almost completely abandoned misses the point and ignores the negligence that was displayed in the process. I pretty much agree with everything written in your post and I've been playing GW2 quite a bit (r43+, 100+ QP's, my ladder-ranking is terribad, cuz I just solo-q nowadays ^^) BUT: If we disregard the past of GW2 PvP and look at the new features, especially the ones coming at the end of April (which are IMHO the most crucial PvP-Updates, because they enable tournaments and various other stuff organized by outside-parties), I'm getting really excited! The bad history of GW2 PvP is the only thing that concerns me for GW2's future as a potential e-Sport, but if enough ppl come back even though they waited for necessary stuff for far too long and if the community or ANet themselves organize tournaments and get GW2 in the public eye of fans of games like that, it could be greatly successful.
The biggest essential thing for PvP to be successful in a game is the proper amount and type of P. One of the reasons I feel such disappointment and resentment towards ANet is that the PvP community the game had at launch was exactly what they wanted. They had an excited, captive group of people talking about and thinking about all the possibilities available in SPvP. The problems with PvP at release turned away not only the majority of those players but also several sponsors. The PvP community gave ANet a chance on faith, and they broke our trust. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It leaves you feeling burned.
In thinking about coming back to the game, the first things that occur to me are things like "are they really going to support PvP growth?". It could happen, but I don't feel like getting trolled all over again. I am interested to see what they do with all this, though.
On April 26 2013 02:14 Ajunta wrote:
I really dislike what is happening in this thread. I love the game and so do many others but somehow I do not feel like talking about it on TL because I'm scared of getting bitch-slapped by somebody with some random arguments. I am not saying those arguments are wrong, just that I am in no mood of defending my favorite game every time I come to TL. It's exhausting.
TL is an awesome community but the ridiculous amount of hatred towards GW2 (and apparently GW2 payers) is a deal breaker.
If you like the game, discuss things you like about it and play it. If someone has a different opinion, you don't need to man a defense so that you can discuss or play it.
Most of the negative things people discuss in this thread are bad decisions made in the past that were to the detriment of many people who, at one time, felt the same as you do now. Unless you feel that ANet releasing SPvP in a broken alpha state was a really good decision, then you probably agree with a lot of the negative things said.
I have no problem whatsoever with people discussing things they like about GW2, but I very much dislike when the apologetics start being thrown around. When ANet does something that you view as good, it does not wipe away or erase or in any way negate all the bad decisions they've made in the past.
I see absolutely no reason why those like you and those like me can't coexist in this thread.
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On April 26 2013 05:41 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 01:37 kickinhead wrote:On April 24 2013 17:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:I think that's a pretty dismissive viewpoint that ignores all the struggle people had with GW2 PvP in the past. When the game came out, there was an expectation (set by ANet themselves) about the state that PvP was going to be in. It was something they fawned over, particularly after the initial live SPvP event footage. There were teams of 5 preparing practice schedules and doing theorycrafting, teambuilding, and map analysis from experiences from the beta and footage. Some of these even had sponsors quite literally preparing for expenditures on tournaments right out the gate. Guild Wars (the original game) started with very good PvP systems right out the gate and only got better as ANet matured as a developer and got more in touch with the needs of PvP players. I mean, they've fucking had 100,000 USD tournaments in 2007 when the idea of professional gaming was something more or less laughed at by the entire Western world. And the game released with utterly broken SPvP and tournament system. The PvP community on the official forums spoke in one voice, and it was pretty obvious that the state of PvP was not acceptable, much less conducive to competition and all the things that can follow. It's hard to convey into words the opportunity that ANet had to make everything right (they were given serious, measured feedback) and to establish their game as having potential to be a competitive arena. Roughly 2 months after release, ANet had firmly established (through their actions) that PvP was a secondary concern at best in their hierarchy. What's really frustrating about this is that ANet devs (on their forums) filled every response to criticism with promises - promises that players and sponsors took in good faith and which weren't delivered upon. To say that adding new features now is "too little, too late" is under-exaggerating how far they missed the mark. Imagine a brand new city is built. It's hugely popular and quickly grows explosively in population and in its internal economy. Business is booming and standard of living is skyrocketing. But there's a big problem - a series of storms will soon cause the nearby river to swell until it eventually swallows up the city. People campaign for a dam, and the mayor gives out lots of assurances, but nothing is done in the end. The city ends up being totally flooded and practically abandoned. After this happens, the mayor's office commissions a new dam, which is finished months after the disaster. The city is GW2 PvP, and these features (and many others) are the dam. To say, "well at least they're still going strong" after the city has been almost completely abandoned misses the point and ignores the negligence that was displayed in the process. I pretty much agree with everything written in your post and I've been playing GW2 quite a bit (r43+, 100+ QP's, my ladder-ranking is terribad, cuz I just solo-q nowadays ^^) BUT: If we disregard the past of GW2 PvP and look at the new features, especially the ones coming at the end of April (which are IMHO the most crucial PvP-Updates, because they enable tournaments and various other stuff organized by outside-parties), I'm getting really excited! The bad history of GW2 PvP is the only thing that concerns me for GW2's future as a potential e-Sport, but if enough ppl come back even though they waited for necessary stuff for far too long and if the community or ANet themselves organize tournaments and get GW2 in the public eye of fans of games like that, it could be greatly successful. The biggest essential thing for PvP to be successful in a game is the proper amount and type of P. One of the reasons I feel such disappointment and resentment towards ANet is that the PvP community the game had at launch was exactly what they wanted. They had an excited, captive group of people talking about and thinking about all the possibilities available in SPvP. The problems with PvP at release turned away not only the majority of those players but also several sponsors. The PvP community gave ANet a chance on faith, and they broke our trust. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It leaves you feeling burned. In thinking about coming back to the game, the first things that occur to me are things like "are they really going to support PvP growth?". It could happen, but I don't feel like getting trolled all over again. I am interested to see what they do with all this, though. Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:14 Ajunta wrote:
I really dislike what is happening in this thread. I love the game and so do many others but somehow I do not feel like talking about it on TL because I'm scared of getting bitch-slapped by somebody with some random arguments. I am not saying those arguments are wrong, just that I am in no mood of defending my favorite game every time I come to TL. It's exhausting.
TL is an awesome community but the ridiculous amount of hatred towards GW2 (and apparently GW2 payers) is a deal breaker.
If you like the game, discuss things you like about it and play it. If someone has a different opinion, you don't need to man a defense so that you can discuss or play it. Most of the negative things people discuss in this thread are bad decisions made in the past that were to the detriment of many people who, at one time, felt the same as you do now. Unless you feel that ANet releasing SPvP in a broken alpha state was a really good decision, then you probably agree with a lot of the negative things said. I have no problem whatsoever with people discussing things they like about GW2, but I very much dislike when the apologetics start being thrown around. When ANet does something that you view as good, it does not wipe away or erase or in any way negate all the bad decisions they've made in the past. I see absolutely no reason why those like you and those like me can't coexist in this thread.
I think the problem comes when the people who dislike the game dominate the thread and make it difficult the people who just want to connect and play GW2 from being able to do so. If you look at the response to ZenithM's posts, including you own, it is just a line of people complaining about how they don't enjoy the game and bemoaning the struggles they have had. The man only wanted to express his excitement for the game and the spectator mode, but was drowned out by the cries of people saying that GW1 was better.
All I have wanted to know is where are people from TL playing, but that does not appear to ever be a topic in this thread. Every time I come it seems to be about how much better the old game was and design discussions.
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On April 26 2013 06:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 05:41 DefMatrixUltra wrote:On April 26 2013 01:37 kickinhead wrote:On April 24 2013 17:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:I think that's a pretty dismissive viewpoint that ignores all the struggle people had with GW2 PvP in the past. When the game came out, there was an expectation (set by ANet themselves) about the state that PvP was going to be in. It was something they fawned over, particularly after the initial live SPvP event footage. There were teams of 5 preparing practice schedules and doing theorycrafting, teambuilding, and map analysis from experiences from the beta and footage. Some of these even had sponsors quite literally preparing for expenditures on tournaments right out the gate. Guild Wars (the original game) started with very good PvP systems right out the gate and only got better as ANet matured as a developer and got more in touch with the needs of PvP players. I mean, they've fucking had 100,000 USD tournaments in 2007 when the idea of professional gaming was something more or less laughed at by the entire Western world. And the game released with utterly broken SPvP and tournament system. The PvP community on the official forums spoke in one voice, and it was pretty obvious that the state of PvP was not acceptable, much less conducive to competition and all the things that can follow. It's hard to convey into words the opportunity that ANet had to make everything right (they were given serious, measured feedback) and to establish their game as having potential to be a competitive arena. Roughly 2 months after release, ANet had firmly established (through their actions) that PvP was a secondary concern at best in their hierarchy. What's really frustrating about this is that ANet devs (on their forums) filled every response to criticism with promises - promises that players and sponsors took in good faith and which weren't delivered upon. To say that adding new features now is "too little, too late" is under-exaggerating how far they missed the mark. Imagine a brand new city is built. It's hugely popular and quickly grows explosively in population and in its internal economy. Business is booming and standard of living is skyrocketing. But there's a big problem - a series of storms will soon cause the nearby river to swell until it eventually swallows up the city. People campaign for a dam, and the mayor gives out lots of assurances, but nothing is done in the end. The city ends up being totally flooded and practically abandoned. After this happens, the mayor's office commissions a new dam, which is finished months after the disaster. The city is GW2 PvP, and these features (and many others) are the dam. To say, "well at least they're still going strong" after the city has been almost completely abandoned misses the point and ignores the negligence that was displayed in the process. I pretty much agree with everything written in your post and I've been playing GW2 quite a bit (r43+, 100+ QP's, my ladder-ranking is terribad, cuz I just solo-q nowadays ^^) BUT: If we disregard the past of GW2 PvP and look at the new features, especially the ones coming at the end of April (which are IMHO the most crucial PvP-Updates, because they enable tournaments and various other stuff organized by outside-parties), I'm getting really excited! The bad history of GW2 PvP is the only thing that concerns me for GW2's future as a potential e-Sport, but if enough ppl come back even though they waited for necessary stuff for far too long and if the community or ANet themselves organize tournaments and get GW2 in the public eye of fans of games like that, it could be greatly successful. The biggest essential thing for PvP to be successful in a game is the proper amount and type of P. One of the reasons I feel such disappointment and resentment towards ANet is that the PvP community the game had at launch was exactly what they wanted. They had an excited, captive group of people talking about and thinking about all the possibilities available in SPvP. The problems with PvP at release turned away not only the majority of those players but also several sponsors. The PvP community gave ANet a chance on faith, and they broke our trust. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It leaves you feeling burned. In thinking about coming back to the game, the first things that occur to me are things like "are they really going to support PvP growth?". It could happen, but I don't feel like getting trolled all over again. I am interested to see what they do with all this, though. On April 26 2013 02:14 Ajunta wrote:
I really dislike what is happening in this thread. I love the game and so do many others but somehow I do not feel like talking about it on TL because I'm scared of getting bitch-slapped by somebody with some random arguments. I am not saying those arguments are wrong, just that I am in no mood of defending my favorite game every time I come to TL. It's exhausting.
TL is an awesome community but the ridiculous amount of hatred towards GW2 (and apparently GW2 payers) is a deal breaker.
If you like the game, discuss things you like about it and play it. If someone has a different opinion, you don't need to man a defense so that you can discuss or play it. Most of the negative things people discuss in this thread are bad decisions made in the past that were to the detriment of many people who, at one time, felt the same as you do now. Unless you feel that ANet releasing SPvP in a broken alpha state was a really good decision, then you probably agree with a lot of the negative things said. I have no problem whatsoever with people discussing things they like about GW2, but I very much dislike when the apologetics start being thrown around. When ANet does something that you view as good, it does not wipe away or erase or in any way negate all the bad decisions they've made in the past. I see absolutely no reason why those like you and those like me can't coexist in this thread. I think the problem comes when the people who dislike the game dominate the thread and make it difficult the people who just want to connect and play GW2 from being able to do so. If you look at the response to ZenithM's posts, including you own, it is just a line of people complaining about how they don't enjoy the game and bemoaning the struggles they have had. The man only wanted to express his excitement for the game and the spectator mode, but was drowned out by the cries of people saying that GW1 was better. [1] All I have wanted to know is where are people from TL playing, but that does not appear to ever be a topic in this thread. Every time I come it seems to be about how much better the old game was and design discussions. [2]
[1] If he was just expressing his excitement over the game, no one would have any problem with it. The issue is that he took something that ANet did right and framed it in a slimy apologetic way that is very dismissive of other peoples' experiences with the game.
On April 24 2013 19:11 ZenithM wrote:
GW1 did not have spectator mode at the start, btw. And sorry if I offended anyone with my excitement. I don't play GW2 that much so I'm not frustrated over it. I just see (from kind of afar :D) that they constantly push new stuff, even if that's not what you want/you would have wanted it earlier.
Why are these bolded parts in his posts? Remove them and see how non-confrontational they are. Ajunta and others seem to think that there are two types of people in this thread: those that hate everything about the game and must attack every facet and those that love everything about the game and must defend all attacks against it. That's simply not true at all. And no one in this thread has to come up with some apologetic BS to defend ANet's past mistakes if they like something about the game. You can like the game and not throw rocks at people who don't like the game and vice versa without issue.
[2] I understand your frustration about this issue, but it has nothing to do with those who have complaints. Anyone can post whatever they want in this thread. There's no line, there's no burly men at the door keeping some people from posting.
It's no surprise you're having difficulty connecting with a TL community. This thread was started by a guy trying to sneakily get more members for his guild (called Team Legacy, which he obviously abbreviates 'TL') that pretty much had nothing to do with TL (Team Liquid). If you have a look at their website, there's no indication of this, but in the past they had TL banners and statements to the effect that they are a "sister site" to Team Liquid. The tactic worked well, and they filled up with members from TL. So a large chunk of the TL community was tied up in this "TL" guild.
This "TL" guild no longer plays the game (they had their "official" final bout a while back) so a lot of members from TL simply stopped playing the game and spread into the wind.
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I purchased it many months ago but just now started playing a bit.
I really enjoy it.
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So how's the PvP these days? Balance and depth-wise, as well as APM requirement-wise.
I wonder if it's be worth it to start playing the game but if the PvP just sucks and has nothing to do with skill then ...
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On April 26 2013 07:24 Shikyo wrote:
as well as APM requirement-wise.
You've got to be kidding.
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It's a team game, your "apm" requirement is as big as you and your team make it. Some classes are more technical to play, like ele and engi, some take more timing like thief and warrior. Everyone has to always be mindful of their own dodges and the dodges enemies in the fight have left, since dodges negate incoming abilities totally.
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I play as a grenade/bomb Engi, and there is a lot of apm spam involved with the ground targeting whenever I have my grenade kit out. Granted, I could turn on fast ground targeting, but I don't want to waste a cooldown if I aim wrong. But then again, I haven't played sPvP yet at all, and all my experience has been in WvW and PvE.
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On April 26 2013 07:04 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 06:00 Plansix wrote:On April 26 2013 05:41 DefMatrixUltra wrote:On April 26 2013 01:37 kickinhead wrote:On April 24 2013 17:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:I think that's a pretty dismissive viewpoint that ignores all the struggle people had with GW2 PvP in the past. When the game came out, there was an expectation (set by ANet themselves) about the state that PvP was going to be in. It was something they fawned over, particularly after the initial live SPvP event footage. There were teams of 5 preparing practice schedules and doing theorycrafting, teambuilding, and map analysis from experiences from the beta and footage. Some of these even had sponsors quite literally preparing for expenditures on tournaments right out the gate. Guild Wars (the original game) started with very good PvP systems right out the gate and only got better as ANet matured as a developer and got more in touch with the needs of PvP players. I mean, they've fucking had 100,000 USD tournaments in 2007 when the idea of professional gaming was something more or less laughed at by the entire Western world. And the game released with utterly broken SPvP and tournament system. The PvP community on the official forums spoke in one voice, and it was pretty obvious that the state of PvP was not acceptable, much less conducive to competition and all the things that can follow. It's hard to convey into words the opportunity that ANet had to make everything right (they were given serious, measured feedback) and to establish their game as having potential to be a competitive arena. Roughly 2 months after release, ANet had firmly established (through their actions) that PvP was a secondary concern at best in their hierarchy. What's really frustrating about this is that ANet devs (on their forums) filled every response to criticism with promises - promises that players and sponsors took in good faith and which weren't delivered upon. To say that adding new features now is "too little, too late" is under-exaggerating how far they missed the mark. Imagine a brand new city is built. It's hugely popular and quickly grows explosively in population and in its internal economy. Business is booming and standard of living is skyrocketing. But there's a big problem - a series of storms will soon cause the nearby river to swell until it eventually swallows up the city. People campaign for a dam, and the mayor gives out lots of assurances, but nothing is done in the end. The city ends up being totally flooded and practically abandoned. After this happens, the mayor's office commissions a new dam, which is finished months after the disaster. The city is GW2 PvP, and these features (and many others) are the dam. To say, "well at least they're still going strong" after the city has been almost completely abandoned misses the point and ignores the negligence that was displayed in the process. I pretty much agree with everything written in your post and I've been playing GW2 quite a bit (r43+, 100+ QP's, my ladder-ranking is terribad, cuz I just solo-q nowadays ^^) BUT: If we disregard the past of GW2 PvP and look at the new features, especially the ones coming at the end of April (which are IMHO the most crucial PvP-Updates, because they enable tournaments and various other stuff organized by outside-parties), I'm getting really excited! The bad history of GW2 PvP is the only thing that concerns me for GW2's future as a potential e-Sport, but if enough ppl come back even though they waited for necessary stuff for far too long and if the community or ANet themselves organize tournaments and get GW2 in the public eye of fans of games like that, it could be greatly successful. The biggest essential thing for PvP to be successful in a game is the proper amount and type of P. One of the reasons I feel such disappointment and resentment towards ANet is that the PvP community the game had at launch was exactly what they wanted. They had an excited, captive group of people talking about and thinking about all the possibilities available in SPvP. The problems with PvP at release turned away not only the majority of those players but also several sponsors. The PvP community gave ANet a chance on faith, and they broke our trust. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It leaves you feeling burned. In thinking about coming back to the game, the first things that occur to me are things like "are they really going to support PvP growth?". It could happen, but I don't feel like getting trolled all over again. I am interested to see what they do with all this, though. On April 26 2013 02:14 Ajunta wrote:
I really dislike what is happening in this thread. I love the game and so do many others but somehow I do not feel like talking about it on TL because I'm scared of getting bitch-slapped by somebody with some random arguments. I am not saying those arguments are wrong, just that I am in no mood of defending my favorite game every time I come to TL. It's exhausting.
TL is an awesome community but the ridiculous amount of hatred towards GW2 (and apparently GW2 payers) is a deal breaker.
If you like the game, discuss things you like about it and play it. If someone has a different opinion, you don't need to man a defense so that you can discuss or play it. Most of the negative things people discuss in this thread are bad decisions made in the past that were to the detriment of many people who, at one time, felt the same as you do now. Unless you feel that ANet releasing SPvP in a broken alpha state was a really good decision, then you probably agree with a lot of the negative things said. I have no problem whatsoever with people discussing things they like about GW2, but I very much dislike when the apologetics start being thrown around. When ANet does something that you view as good, it does not wipe away or erase or in any way negate all the bad decisions they've made in the past. I see absolutely no reason why those like you and those like me can't coexist in this thread. I think the problem comes when the people who dislike the game dominate the thread and make it difficult the people who just want to connect and play GW2 from being able to do so. If you look at the response to ZenithM's posts, including you own, it is just a line of people complaining about how they don't enjoy the game and bemoaning the struggles they have had. The man only wanted to express his excitement for the game and the spectator mode, but was drowned out by the cries of people saying that GW1 was better. [1] All I have wanted to know is where are people from TL playing, but that does not appear to ever be a topic in this thread. Every time I come it seems to be about how much better the old game was and design discussions. [2] [1] If he was just expressing his excitement over the game, no one would have any problem with it. The issue is that he took something that ANet did right and framed it in a slimy apologetic way that is very dismissive of other peoples' experiences with the game. Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 19:11 ZenithM wrote:
GW1 did not have spectator mode at the start, btw. And sorry if I offended anyone with my excitement. I don't play GW2 that much so I'm not frustrated over it. I just see (from kind of afar :D) that they constantly push new stuff, even if that's not what you want/you would have wanted it earlier. Why are these bolded parts in his posts? Remove them and see how non-confrontational they are. Ajunta and others seem to think that there are two types of people in this thread: those that hate everything about the game and must attack every facet and those that love everything about the game and must defend all attacks against it. That's simply not true at all. And no one in this thread has to come up with some apologetic BS to defend ANet's past mistakes if they like something about the game. You can like the game and not throw rocks at people who don't like the game and vice versa without issue. [2] I understand your frustration about this issue, but it has nothing to do with those who have complaints. Anyone can post whatever they want in this thread. There's no line, there's no burly men at the door keeping some people from posting. It's no surprise you're having difficulty connecting with a TL community. This thread was started by a guy trying to sneakily get more members for his guild (called Team Legacy, which he obviously abbreviates 'TL') that pretty much had nothing to do with TL (Team Liquid). If you have a look at their website, there's no indication of this, but in the past they had TL banners and statements to the effect that they are a "sister site" to Team Liquid. The tactic worked well, and they filled up with members from TL. So a large chunk of the TL community was tied up in this "TL" guild. This "TL" guild no longer plays the game (they had their "official" final bout a while back) so a lot of members from TL simply stopped playing the game and spread into the wind.
I stand by my original statement. He expressed excitement about the game and was happy the developer was continuing to support it. You felt the need to correct him, point out all the ways the game was not supported and was lesser than GW1. You are right, anyone can post anything they want. But if you try to jump up and down on peoples excitement about a game they are enjoying, don't expect them to super pumped about it.
There are people in the thread who just want to play the game and not discuss its merits or flaws.
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On April 26 2013 09:05 Plansix wrote:
I stand by my original statement. He expressed excitement about the game and was happy the developer was continuing to support it. You felt the need to correct him, point out all the ways the game was not supported and was lesser than GW1. You are right, anyone can post anything they want. But if you try to jump up and down on peoples excitement about a game they are enjoying, don't expect them to super pumped about it. [1]
There are people in the thread who just want to play the game and not discuss its merits or flaws. [2]
[1] You're beginning to bend reality here. He did not simply express excitement about the game, he also thought it was a good idea dismiss the mistakes of the past. I certainly was not responding to his excitement about the game. There are many people that are excited about the game and playing, but I don't go hunting for them on the internet just to "jump up and down" on their excitement, as you put it.
Look at the following.
On April 24 2013 19:11 ZenithM wrote:
GW1 did not have spectator mode at the start, btw. And sorry if I offended anyone with my excitement. I don't play GW2 that much so I'm not frustrated over it. I just see (from kind of afar :D) that they constantly push new stuff, even if that's not what you want/you would have wanted it earlier.
Now let's try something different.
On April 24 2013 19:11 ZenithM wrote:
Sorry if I offended anyone with my excitement. I don't play GW2 that much. I just see (from kind of afar :D) that they constantly push new stuff.
This is just a guy excited about new features in the game and not putting little jabs in about people who were burned by ANet's past mistakes.
I also find it odd that you see what I said as "correcting" him. He didn't say anything that could be considered factually incorrect. The problem with what he said and his tone was that it was simultaneously dismissive of complaints against ANet's past mistakes and very defensive.
If you really are simply going to plant your flag and "stand by" your assessment of what happened, then I'll just agree to disagree with you about my intentions.
[2] Well you can't play GW2 in a forum thread, but you can discuss the game. That is what this thread has turned into - a discussion about the game. People who have complaints about it don't "own" the thread any more than people who dislike seeing complaints about it.
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On April 26 2013 07:24 Shikyo wrote:
So how's the PvP these days? Balance and depth-wise, as well as APM requirement-wise.
I wonder if it's be worth it to start playing the game but if the PvP just sucks and has nothing to do with skill then ...
Balance is horrible.
Depth is very shallow.
There are a few spammy classes but most have clear cut "rotations" in pvp which is so much fail.
If you are after a PvP game give this one a miss.
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^ I dont have the energy to make another post on timings, positioning, dodging and general pvp.
But you are wrong.
This from a man who is playing GW1 currently and loves it more then GW2, i still think GW2 is an excellent game.
Anyone playing GW1 right now? Would be fun to have friendies :3
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On April 26 2013 16:13 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 07:24 Shikyo wrote:
So how's the PvP these days? Balance and depth-wise, as well as APM requirement-wise.
I wonder if it's be worth it to start playing the game but if the PvP just sucks and has nothing to do with skill then ... Balance is horrible. Depth is very shallow. There are a few spammy classes but most have clear cut "rotations" in pvp which is so much fail. If you are after a PvP game give this one a miss.
SPvP was never ever like this. I doubt it's become this bad. PvP is a lot about positioning (playing with ranges) and macro-scale timing and awareness.
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On April 26 2013 16:13 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 07:24 Shikyo wrote:
So how's the PvP these days? Balance and depth-wise, as well as APM requirement-wise.
I wonder if it's be worth it to start playing the game but if the PvP just sucks and has nothing to do with skill then ... Balance is horrible. Depth is very shallow. There are a few spammy classes but most have clear cut "rotations" in pvp which is so much fail. If you are after a PvP game give this one a miss.
You're just disgruntled IMHO and it's understandable, but you're wrong.
At it's core, GW2 is by far the most demanding, fast and smooth MMO or MOBA out there and there's no question about it.
If you are a person that hasn't played GW2 yet and aren't annoyed by the long wait you had to endure for crucial PvP-Features, it's definitely the best thing out there. Now, the biggest Issues in PvP are solved (Custom Arena's, Spectator-Mode, Ladder, Matchmaking) and even though they are far from perfect, it's still a very good game and the potential is ridiculously huge.
If I get the Person that's asking about APM right, you probably are looking for a demanding Game in skill and strategy and GW2 can offer you that: Even 1v1's require tons of skill and timing and almost remind of a fighting-game because of timing, dodges etc. You can literally train 1v1's for hours and try to perfect them, which other Team-based MMO/MOBA has that much depth even in the 1v1's?
In Teamfights, you have to also work with your teammates and keep an eye on everyone. Then, there's also the "Macro-part" about where to send which player, which is pretty demanding as well and requires tons of experience and awareness.
The road up to here was hard and discouraging and it will take a while before GW2 can use it's full potential (because it has such a huge potential), but if you start playing now, the worst part is behind you and the only thing GW2 needs atm is more players. And I'm sure those players will eventually come, because if ANet doesn't completely drop the ball even harder than they did until now (or in other words, the ball was on the ground and they took months to pick it up ^^') GW2 will become absolutely amazing.
I've played tons of competetive Games, be it MOBA's (HoN, Dota2), MMO's (GW1 for several years, SWtOR, WHO) and of course Strategy (SC1+2, WC3 and Dawn of War 1+2) and I'm just a hardcore competetive gamer and GW2 is at it's core exactly what I want and what I feel many players out there are looking for that are looking for a competetive game.
Besides, the game has no monthly cost and you can create PvP chars at max-level with max-gear (gear-progression is only in terms of better looking gear, not stats), they don't plan on making any expansions you'd have to buy AND util now, there is really no need to spend any money on the ingame-store for PvP. So just spend the few bucks and play it and even if the infrastructure isn't good enough for you, you can w8 for more players/features and pick it up later without any additional costs.
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I don't think you understand how dota games work kickinhead.
Will I guess right if I say you are a below average skilled player in dota?
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Aside from the PvP thing, I firmly believe GW2 is one of the premier fantasy MMO around. The alive world might have not been as impressive as it sounded but adaptive environment aren't very easy to implement.
However their live story events around the molten alliance is good and things are moving in the right direction.
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Lets do a quick survey to see where everybody plays.I'll start:
Server: Whiteside Ridge
Region: EU
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On April 26 2013 07:25 ain wrote:You've got to be kidding.
For example TERA Sorcerer is quite intense. I like that kind of gameplay, if there's no constant autoattacking or channeling for 3 seconds.
I'd like a somewhat dynamic system or such where you do different things depending on what your opponent does, have different rotations for different situations and distances and such. I'm not really into completely straightforward gameplay with no proper thinking required. For example if a thief could for example disable you from stealth and oneshot you without counterplay I wouldn't really like that. However, if you could have a panic button that lets you live at like 20% hp and then kill the thief back it'd be all right I guess, or if the thief could only do that if you got distracted by someone else...
Not really getting a good picture from the replies thus far -.- Seems like a lot of conflicting opinions. No it doesn't need to be like DotA.
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EPT
