On October 21 2010 09:07 Sadist wrote: the defenseless receiver penalty is bs. Its part of going over the middle. Whats next penalizing people for blocking someone who isnt looking directly at them? Head on a swivel.
Its the QB's fault for leading over the middle in traffic. You dont want your guys getting hurt dont lead them so they can catch the ball and fall down.
Ridiculous. Murdering receivers who are disciplined enough to catch the ball in traffic is OK because it's "part of the game"? That's just a vapid argument.
Yes, dont go over the middle then. Part of going over the middle has always been the risk of getting knocked the fuck out. The rule is only a recent one anyway, its not like its been in the game forever.
Guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin made their careers by being brave enough to go over the middle.
Id say its way more dangerous to be able to crush people on tipped balls or something. Thats completely unnecessary.
What, so we should let guys deliver helmet-to-helmet hits and give people concussions because that's how they did it twenty years ago? That's stupid. I guess hockey players shouldn't wear helmets then because players in the 20s didn't do it, and now modern players are pussies.
Helmet to Helmet =/= defenseless receiver.
Defenseless receiver is SUPPOSED to not allow any contact around the head area of the receiver with your forearm, shoulder pads, anything.......Im fine with that. Its not being called that way however, people are getting blasted in the chest by shoulderpads and its being called a penalty for for hitting a defenseless receiver.
Also, leading with your helmet = dirty, however helmet to helmet can happen a ton by the way the offensive player braces for impact or is moving so its not always on the defender.
Desean Jackson got crushed in the chest/shoulder pads that should have been a legal hit.
Even the hit on Cribbs wasn't a bad hit. It started out aiming for the middle of his body, and Cribbs lowered his head. There's nothing a defender can do there. If they're going to get fined for hits like that, then WR's should get fined for putting their heads down, right? That doesn't make sense.
Even that shot on Massaquoai (SP)... people say he didn't to wreck him like that, but what is he supposed to do? Let him catch the ball? Still, given that it's Harrison, and I think he's a dirty player, I think he's aiming for heads more often than not. I can't prove that, but whatever.
"I don't want to injure anybody," Harrison said following Pittsburgh's 28-10 victory. "There's a big difference between being hurt and being injured. You get hurt, you shake it off and come back the next series or the next game. I try to hurt people."
Eh, I feel like even my own reasoning for disliking him is starting to fall apart. A defender wants a guy to think about getting hit when he comes near them, so even if he can't get to the player, they may drop the ball.
Michael Crabtree @ Carolina Michael Bush @ Denver Danario Alexander @ Tampa
Not a great week for my flex picks. Matchups seem bad. Carolina has been good at stopping #1 WRs courtesy of Chris Gamble, Michael Bush has to deal with the dual threat of McFadden possibly coming back and having a terrible QB under center which means more stacked boxes, and can't really assume how well Danario Alexander will fare or whether or not he will draw TB's #1 corner. Help me out here. :D
On October 21 2010 09:07 Sadist wrote: the defenseless receiver penalty is bs. Its part of going over the middle. Whats next penalizing people for blocking someone who isnt looking directly at them? Head on a swivel.
Its the QB's fault for leading over the middle in traffic. You dont want your guys getting hurt dont lead them so they can catch the ball and fall down.
Ridiculous. Murdering receivers who are disciplined enough to catch the ball in traffic is OK because it's "part of the game"? That's just a vapid argument.
Yes, dont go over the middle then. Part of going over the middle has always been the risk of getting knocked the fuck out. The rule is only a recent one anyway, its not like its been in the game forever.
Guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin made their careers by being brave enough to go over the middle.
Id say its way more dangerous to be able to crush people on tipped balls or something. Thats completely unnecessary.
What, so we should let guys deliver helmet-to-helmet hits and give people concussions because that's how they did it twenty years ago? That's stupid. I guess hockey players shouldn't wear helmets then because players in the 20s didn't do it, and now modern players are pussies.
Helmet to Helmet =/= defenseless receiver.
Defenseless receiver is SUPPOSED to not allow any contact around the head area of the receiver with your forearm, shoulder pads, anything.......Im fine with that. Its not being called that way however, people are getting blasted in the chest by shoulderpads and its being called a penalty for for hitting a defenseless receiver.
Also, leading with your helmet = dirty, however helmet to helmet can happen a ton by the way the offensive player braces for impact or is moving so its not always on the defender.
Desean Jackson got crushed in the chest/shoulder pads that should have been a legal hit.
Even the hit on Cribbs wasn't a bad hit. It started out aiming for the middle of his body, and Cribbs lowered his head. There's nothing a defender can do there. If they're going to get fined for hits like that, then WR's should get fined for putting their heads down, right? That doesn't make sense.
Even that shot on Massaquoai (SP)... people say he didn't to wreck him like that, but what is he supposed to do? Let him catch the ball? Still, given that it's Harrison, and I think he's a dirty player, I think he's aiming for heads more often than not. I can't prove that, but whatever.
Nobody has mentioned that Desean Jackson weighs 170 lbs, he shouldnt be going over the middle anyway especially in any circumstance where a team is playing zone (not sure if atlanta was doing that there or if it was just safety help, didnt see the full play/game)
On October 21 2010 09:07 Sadist wrote: the defenseless receiver penalty is bs. Its part of going over the middle. Whats next penalizing people for blocking someone who isnt looking directly at them? Head on a swivel.
Its the QB's fault for leading over the middle in traffic. You dont want your guys getting hurt dont lead them so they can catch the ball and fall down.
Ridiculous. Murdering receivers who are disciplined enough to catch the ball in traffic is OK because it's "part of the game"? That's just a vapid argument.
Yes, dont go over the middle then. Part of going over the middle has always been the risk of getting knocked the fuck out. The rule is only a recent one anyway, its not like its been in the game forever.
Guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin made their careers by being brave enough to go over the middle.
Id say its way more dangerous to be able to crush people on tipped balls or something. Thats completely unnecessary.
What, so we should let guys deliver helmet-to-helmet hits and give people concussions because that's how they did it twenty years ago? That's stupid. I guess hockey players shouldn't wear helmets then because players in the 20s didn't do it, and now modern players are pussies.
Helmet to Helmet =/= defenseless receiver.
Defenseless receiver is SUPPOSED to not allow any contact around the head area of the receiver with your forearm, shoulder pads, anything.......Im fine with that. Its not being called that way however, people are getting blasted in the chest by shoulderpads and its being called a penalty for for hitting a defenseless receiver.
Also, leading with your helmet = dirty, however helmet to helmet can happen a ton by the way the offensive player braces for impact or is moving so its not always on the defender.
Desean Jackson got crushed in the chest/shoulder pads that should have been a legal hit.
Even the hit on Cribbs wasn't a bad hit. It started out aiming for the middle of his body, and Cribbs lowered his head. There's nothing a defender can do there. If they're going to get fined for hits like that, then WR's should get fined for putting their heads down, right? That doesn't make sense.
Even that shot on Massaquoai (SP)... people say he didn't to wreck him like that, but what is he supposed to do? Let him catch the ball? Still, given that it's Harrison, and I think he's a dirty player, I think he's aiming for heads more often than not. I can't prove that, but whatever.
Nobody has mentioned that Desean Jackson weighs 170 lbs, he shouldnt be going over the middle anyway especially in any circumstance where a team is playing zone (not sure if atlanta was doing that there or if it was just safety help, didnt see the full play/game)
It looked like a standard Tampa 2. I think Dunta was running a mid zone, and came across. The thing is, he got hit by a CB, not a LB, so it wouldn't have really mattered how he was running the route. Aside from that, despite his size, his speed and agility make him EXACTLY the type of guy that has to go over the middle. That's where there is most often space to move, so inevitably he will end up in the middle of the field sometimes.
Steve Smith isn't much bigger (185 vs 175), and he goes over the middle. Wes Welker is the same weight as Smith, but shorter, and he is always going over the middle. Guys like BMarsh, Fitz, etc (big WR's) get the sideline routes because they are so tall you can just toss it up to them.
The main reason I wanted to post here today, though, was to ask if anyone else thinks that these rule changes may lead to the eventual downfall of the NFL, and uprising of another league like the UFL or something. If these sorts of rule changes continue, the NFL is going to turn this into a game that will hardly be recognized as football. If this starts to drive away star defenders to other leagues, eventually other talent will follow. No one would want to watch Peyton Manning shred third string talent all the time. Even former QB's think that these rule changes are absurd. Candy-asses like Brady think the rule changes are great. I know that defenders have not received these changes well, Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs have both publicly stated they dislike them, along with many other star defenders.
On October 21 2010 17:41 Craton wrote: I wouldn't give you Marshall for Torain.
In any event, I can't find the "All" button or the time to read through 80+ pages: is there an IRC channel for NFL games?
The main reason I wanted to post here today, though, was to ask if anyone else thinks that these rule changes may lead to the eventual downfall of the NFL, and uprising of another league like the UFL or something. If these sorts of rule changes continue, the NFL is going to turn this into a game that will hardly be recognized as football. If this starts to drive away star defenders to other leagues, eventually other talent will follow. No one would want to watch Peyton Manning shred third string talent all the time. Even former QB's think that these rule changes are absurd. Candy-asses like Brady think the rule changes are great. I know that defenders have not received these changes well, Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs have both publicly stated they dislike them, along with many other star defenders.
No. The NFL is already the most popular sport in America and is growing at a meteoric rate. The superbowl was watched by the most people in the history of American television. Unless the NFL becomes a no-contact league or even a limited-contact league popular will not be effected. It's not like this is the first time the NFL has came down hard on illegal hits and changed rules to protect players. You used to be able to clothesline players, punch players, use crackbacks, wedges, whatever. The NFL didn't get less popular when those were taken away. As far as another football league rivaling the NFL ... not going to happen, they don't have the capital to pay the top players people come to watch, nor the stadiums or tv deals.
But if players left the NFL they would. The NFL isn't just taking away illegal hits, or ones that are meant to endanger players like helmet to helmet hits, but also "devastating blows." As far as anyone I have heard from knows, these are completely legal hits as well.
who's gonna leave? dirty bitches like harrison do you think desean jackson is gonna leave a league where he's more well protected? Or any offensive player? There may be a few defenders who leave in an uproar and attempt to make another league become big, but I find it unlikely. I think it's more likely that football as a whole will decline in popularity, but what sport will take its place remains to be seen. Every sport has had its heyday, there's no guarantee that football will remain eternally popular
Some of the players that benefit most from the changes, from a health perspective, are the defenders who routinely take violent hits but don't realize it/don't care.
For the NFL the problem is that they're under immense scrutiny, and ironically a lot of this has been caused by former players, to make the game a healthier sport. I think people are aware there're the Junior Seaus of the world (he mentioned in an interview that he was well aware of the health risks and knew he was likely to not have a long happy life, but he felt it was worth his life to make the life of his family better), but there're also the Kyle Turleys of the world, and it's tough. There's a massive trickle-down effect from the NFL to kids' leagues that the NFL is very, very aware of, and many people have blasted the NFL, esp with regards to concussions, for not stepping up and setting a standard for high school leagues. It's a lose-lose situation and one that's not ideal but it's something they have to deal with, and they're beginning to do so now. The reality is that, as happened with boxing, violence is a two-way road.
Whether you (and many, many others) like it or not, the NFL finds itself in a position of responsibility, for its current players, future players, and for millions of kids worldwide, to set a standard that tries to ensure as many people as possible can enjoy the sport and still live a normal life. I think most people that participate heavily in sports know (or come to know) that their body is irreparably punished by partaking in any sports (I used to play hockey/do kendou and my knees are brutalized, even though I was never that heavily invested into them), but as they say, you can't heal brain damage, at least at the moment.
And while this is magnified in concussions, this extends to nerve, and spinal damage. And I think given what happened to that college player the NFL is really, really afraid of ending up with "a situation" on their hands. It's too late to change public perception after a player ends up being paralyzed from an NFL game off a violent hit in the middle of a game. Are they going overboard? I don't know, but I can confidently say that people are being hypocritical or stupid if they think hammering someone helmet-to-helmet is fine just because the rules say it's okay to H-2-H someone who's already carrying a ball, for instance. And using a helmet to spear someone isn't especially condusive to either party's health, although it's usually the offensive player (the guy who gets hit) that shows visible signs of pain. Yeah, amazingly, headbutting someone leads to concussions, too.
On October 23 2010 02:24 KOFgokuon wrote: who's gonna leave? dirty bitches like harrison do you think desean jackson is gonna leave a league where he's more well protected? Or any offensive player? There may be a few defenders who leave in an uproar and attempt to make another league become big, but I find it unlikely. I think it's more likely that football as a whole will decline in popularity, but what sport will take its place remains to be seen. Every sport has had its heyday, there's no guarantee that football will remain eternally popular
I dont think this rule will be active for long. They will define it to specific hit and that kind of hit will be so watered down no one will care.
Why the fuck do people keep writing long essays and then end with something like this:
" I don't know, but I can confidently say that people are being hypocritical or stupid if they think hammering someone helmet-to-helmet is fine just because the rules say it's okay to H-2-H someone who's already carrying a ball, for instance. And using a helmet to spear someone isn't especially condusive to either party's health, although it's usually the offensive player (the guy who gets hit) that shows visible signs of pain. Yeah, amazingly, headbutting someone leads to concussions, too."
Except that's not what anyone has said. What everyone is complaining, and worried, about is the "devastating hits" and what constitutes as a devastating hit. Nowhere has anyone said "let them hit helmet to helmet, it's part of the game." Nowhere has anyone said "Let them lead with their helmets, it's part of the game," yet every time an argument for these rules is made (from what I've heard, and read) people bring this up. We all agree, helmet to helmet blows should not be part of the game, players need to be conscious of where their heads are, and not lead with the helmet toward another player's helmet.
The issue is, and has been since these changes were announced, devastating hits. What does that mean? How will it be enforced? If it's just helmet to helmet blows, then fine, that's the rule anyway. If they're simply going to be more strict on helmet to helmet hits, that's fine, everyone is happy that way. But take that shot that was put on Seattle's punter by Earl Bennett last Sunday. That hit was absolutely devastating. They don't get much harder than what that punter took. Will Earl Bennett be fined and suspended for a completely clean hit like that? According to the language that the NFL has used: YES. That's what people are worried about. That's what Steve Young, Matt Millen, Trent Dilfer, Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs, etc, are concerned about. Blows that are otherwise completely legal being finable and suspendable hits, because they were too hard.
It's a retarded rule. There are existing headshot rules in place that cover this. Enforce those properly and it's not an issue. Bam!
The DeSean Jackson hit was 100% clean. I can't even believe the fucking league is going after that. Total pussification of the game. It is a full contact game. You can't give someone a fucking penalty for hitting too hard. I don't understand why Harrison got so much shit either. The one hit where the guy came across the middle, that was marginal at best. The other, what the fuck is he supposed to do there?? Regretable, but he's gotta hit the guy.
The shit that should be big fines is what dumbfuck Brandon Merriweather tried pulling in the Pats game. That's stupid. Late and high with the helmet. WOrry about that crap.
Yeah, the more I watched those Harrison hits, the more I thought I had to take back what I had said about him. There's nothing that can be done when a guy turns and lowers his head into the defenders helmet.
Comes across the middle and that sure looks like pad to his head
And the Cribbs one, totally agree with you. That's what happens when you want to cut back all day like Cribbs always does. At least to his credit, he said there was nothing wrong with that and he's eager to play against Harrison again.
EPT
