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On October 09 2010 00:18 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 16:16 News wrote:
Interesting, I expected this to be an actual NFL thread with some analysis and a few heated debates, but it seems like everyone is just talking "fantasy football". Apparently you also don't bother reading the thread too much not to mention that talking about fantasy contains tons of analysis. Actually, probably even more in depth than normal nfl discussion because it concerns stat nerds. i mean for christs sake, ive written a goddamn dissertation on why Vick is so insanely overrated
Haha, there was like three pages discussing that. Some people just don't get it. All the games get talked about in some way, though. Like, how will Megatron perform against Team X today? He'll do well because he's going against Player A, or something. Then match ups, etc get discussed. It's not like our fantasy discussion revolves around "Who should I play?" "Play ABC." It's "Play ABC because of DEF."
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I understand what you guys mean, constantly playing "fantasy football" does make you more knowledgeable since you have to whore stats on a regular basis, yet it is still different compared to an actual game. I've never played this before but I would guess it could go like this: you didn't pick Moss for your "fantasy" because he was "expensive" or high priority or w/e ratings you guys have plus he gets covered by 2-3 people. So this season he was a worthless unproductive "fantasy" player, but his actual impact on the defense was still huge, because he allowed other receivers to open up. So technically "fantasy" Moss impact contradicts what actual Moss brings to the table.
I started watching football recently (about 5 years, basically since I came to the US) and the main reason I searched for an NFL thread was to read some gossip and speculations about the teams, players and tactics. I am definitely not knowledgeable in this field, I wouldn't be here to feed my curiosity if I knew that much.
I did play "fantasy soccer" (it was called something else back home) and it was fairly entertaining, but people usually tried to not mix it up with an actual conversation about the sport, that was the main difference. Here I can go to a sports bar and hear people talk about who they picked for their "fantasy team" which I find pretty funny.
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Just read the last few pages. There was a big debate about the Moss trade. We talked about the trade itself (good deal or bad?) and the impact of Moss moving in terms of the style of play, how it opens up new lanes for different players, etc. That analysis is applicable to both real world football
There's tons of talk about gossip, speculations, teams, tactics.
On October 07 2010 02:41 Hawk wrote:
Favre also never had anyone close to Moss' ability at WR, ever. Sterling Sharpe was probably the best dude, but only there when Favre was literally a kid (not an indecisive 15 year old girl in a rickety old man's body). After that, Freeman, Walker, Driver and Jennings. All very good players, but not even close to Moss' ability. He is an athletic freak, even in his 30s.
Shiancoe's gonna take a bit of hit in the RZ with Moss abusing corners on fades, but Moss's field stretching ability means he'll probably have a lot more LBs covering instead of faster safeties in the open field.
from back in the Moss discussion. Totally talks about real game tactics and what will happen due to the trade, but it's also relevant fantasy wise. Virtually everything you talk about from a real NFL perspective is relevant to fantasy, and vice versa. The stuff you bring up about Moss is exactly what we talk about.
Generally sit/start question for fantasy spawns a huge debate about that player, team, playstyle or whatever. We constantly talk about offensive lines and stuff like that, even though those guys can't score a point in fantasy.
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Okay I found it, I somehow clicked 10-20 pages back randomly and every time it wasn't what I kept looking for.
Seems like a lot of people here question the Moss trade and why Pats gave him away this easily. Besides serious problems with his attitude and uncertainty about his future with Pats (also a possible lockout in 2011) here in New England many people assume that Belichick did Moss a favor. They could have traded him any place else, but they actually traded him somewhere he wanted to be the most. Minnesota is the best possible choice for Randy, at the same time Randy is perfect for Minnesota. Hopefully Favre is finally erratic enough not to be a Superbowl contender.
We can only speculate what went on behind the curtains. The way Moss started out this season it is questionable whether it's going to hurt Pats all that much or not. One of the theories is that Pats gave up on this seasons chances and are trying to build for the future, they will have a monster draft. Paying this kind of money to a receiver that only has ~2 years of top speed in him while having slim chances of competing with the best could seem irresponsible to the owners.
Traditionally New England was never a good place for someone with a big mouth and a lack of discipline.
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Yeah seriously this thread has a pretty good balance between fantasy talk and real football talk. It just depends on what part of the week you look at. Mid week seems to be high on fantasy advice whereas the NFL itself is talked about in and around game days.
On October 09 2010 07:40 News wrote:
Traditionally New England was never a good place for someone with a big mouth and a lack of discipline.
While this was true of Moss in Oakland and his latter days in Minnesota, he has been pretty damn well behaved during his stay in NE. The Boston Sports media just likes to give him shit because they're all terrible people and the average off-season Red Sox fan pretending to like football for a few months eats that shit right up.
Moss is the type of player that is perfectly fine on a team where he doesn't have to be the leader. He wasn't a problem back when Carter was the guy in Minnesota, and he wasn't a problem under Brady either. However you pair him up with a meat head like Mike Tice and expect him to be the team leader and you're in a lot of trouble. Same deal with his stay in Oakland.
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Yeah, aside from saying that he didn't like that talks of a contract extension weren't even brought up this season, we haven't heard a word from him (negatively) since he went to NE. He's not as big of a problem as he was for 3-4 years between Minny and Oakland.
Moss's lowered production was more of an issue with scheme change than it was with him. There's no doubt in my mind about this. The amount of passes that TE's have seen on that team, and the amount of rushing attempts they've had lead me to that belief. They weren't the team taking shots down field anymore.
Moss may only have a couple years of top speed left, but he can still run routes, and he's learned all the tricks a WR can possibly have to get open. Hip wiggles, shoulder shakes, head fakes... Randy excels at all of them. This is hardly different than when people thought he was done in Oakland, and he went on to light everyone up for the next two seasons.
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I don't know, he had some low-effort games last season, especially vs Carolina (big stink in the media here) and in the playoffs. He was also late to practice with some shitty excuse. And what about arguing with coaching staff?
Everything completely depends on the type of effort he puts in. He could be one of the very best if he wants to, he might actually have that spark again with his new team. I also agree with scheme changes influencing his production and increasing frustration, maybe Pats weren't right for him after all.
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On October 09 2010 08:04 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
Moss's lowered production was more of an issue with scheme change than it was with him. There's no doubt in my mind about this. The amount of passes that TE's have seen on that team, and the amount of rushing attempts they've had lead me to that belief. They weren't the team taking shots down field anymore.
This and the fact that only 4 games have been played are the reason for his relatively modest numbers. They have been changing the offensive scheme back to a more methodical clock controlling approach this year. Belichik seems to be a lot more comfortable winning this way than by trying to blow teams out of the water early and play pass defense for the rest of the game.
I have two issues with this approach though. One being that the defense isn't good enough yet to pull their weight. The offense will remain very strong, but they will lose a lot of their ability to score quickly and force opposing offenses to be one dimensional, which can mask the weaknesses of a defense. The second is that even if Moss is not getting targets, he still demands attention due to the way he can burn you deep. I'm worried the screen game is going to suffer in his Moss's.
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Aside from the right or wrong nature of the decision I think it's a farce that there are so many commentators and people saying they feel that New England has "given up" the season. Really? I guess we'll see. I'm hesitant to say that things are doomsday for us but sure there's going to have to be adjustments. And, not to sound too unrealistically upbeat but I'm interested to see what our offense can do without Moss.
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51528 Posts
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Thanks to Brady having his Bye, and Cutler and Vick Injured ( i was going to trade both of them this week... that plan kinda went to shit) I have to chose between Hill, Garrard, or Bradford as my QB...
Ugh.
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On October 09 2010 22:24 DannyJ wrote:
Thanks to Brady having his Bye, and Cutler and Vick Injured ( i was going to trade both of them this week... that plan kinda went to shit) I have to chose between Hill, Garrard, or Bradford as my QB...
Ugh.
ouch...ugh indeed.
I would choose Bradford, but thats just me
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Bradford is the obvious choice. Dude is fucking nasty so far. ESPECIALLY vs Detroit. I'm starting to develop a pretty big hard-on for Bradford as a player. I mean, people thought Ryan looked good in his rookie season; imo, Bradford looks at least twice as good. I've never seen a rookie this good before. And he's doing it with no legit #1.
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I dunno. Bradford won't be at home like he has 3 of his games so far. THat probably really helps a rookie QB.
Although in his one road game in oakland he played pretty well so that's a good sign.
Shaun hill is playing vs the rams as the home QB, and he does have Megatron to throw to at least.
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On October 10 2010 07:08 DannyJ wrote:
I dunno. Bradford won't be at home like he has 3 of his games so far. THat probably really helps a rookie QB.
Although in his one road game in oakland he played pretty well so that's a good sign.
Shaun hill is playing vs the rams as the home QB, and he does have Megatron to throw to at least.
St. Louis's D is looking* good, and it blitzes a lot. Shaun Hill might be in for a long day.
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On October 10 2010 07:08 DannyJ wrote:
I dunno. Bradford won't be at home like he has 3 of his games so far. THat probably really helps a rookie QB.
Although in his one road game in oakland he played pretty well so that's a good sign.
Shaun hill is playing vs the rams as the home QB, and he does have Megatron to throw to at least.
But he's playing the Lions. The Lions are a college team.
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![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/2n7lg6u.jpg)
Yeah, my team is sick now.
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On October 09 2010 08:38 Gryffindor_us wrote:
Aside from the right or wrong nature of the decision I think it's a farce that there are so many commentators and people saying they feel that New England has "given up" the season. Really? I guess we'll see. I'm hesitant to say that things are doomsday for us but sure there's going to have to be adjustments. And, not to sound too unrealistically upbeat but I'm interested to see what our offense can do without Moss.
I can't possibly see how that can be the case. Stupid writers always trying to stir shit up.
Even without a dominant pass rush you can never count out a Belichick defense. That and Brady's accuracy are what wins them games.
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What do you guys think: Malcom Floyd or Marques Colston? I think they'll get about the same yardage, perhaps with Floyd getting the touchdown as he's getting a fair amount of red zone targets.
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Floyd will have Asomaugh or whatever on him in all likelyhood. Tough match-up.
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EPT
