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On May 04 2014 07:37 nimbim wrote:Problem 1: The black stone on G5 can be captured with white playing on F5. Problem 2: When the liberty on F9 gets filled, the E9 stone will be in atari. A key characteristic of an eye is that the opponent cannot play in there. Afaik there are only Chinese (area) and Japanese (territory) rules. For now it's not very important. http://senseis.xmp.net/?Scoring"Which system is used will not normally affect who wins the game, and the difference between the margin of victory for the two methods will be zero or at most one point in the vast majority of games."
For Problem 1. it does look like a move that could have consequential effects.
But for Problem 2, it doesn't seem that bad if it ends up in atari, does it?
There are no Korean rules? I wonder why he said Korean then...
thank you very much
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On May 04 2014 07:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
So in both cases, I only lose one stone?
In the second problem, wouldn't it take two stones to capture E9?
Nope, you lose the entire group in both cases because the remaining stones only have one eye. In the first problem, the remaining black group only has two liberties, so in two more moves white could take the entire thing. Even if black tried to force a ko fight by recapturing F5 white would eventually be able to take the group.
In the second problem it would take two more moves to capture E9, but there's nothing black can do to stop it from happening. So eventually the corner black group would also be reduced to only one eye and die.
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On May 04 2014 07:47 Roggle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 07:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
So in both cases, I only lose one stone?
In the second problem, wouldn't it take two stones to capture E9? Nope, you lose the entire group in both cases because the remaining stones only have one eye. In the first problem, the remaining black group only has two liberties, so in two more moves white could take the entire thing. Even if black tried to force a ko fight by recapturing F5 white would eventually be able to take the group. In the second problem it would take two more moves to capture E9, but there's nothing black can do to stop it from happening. So eventually the corner black group would also be reduced to only one eye and die.
For the first problem, he would go F5, then he would finish me off at A4 to capture them all? Or? This is the only part I get confused because it feels like you need a complete surrounding with whites to capture all the blacks.
I understand problem 2
Thanks!
I do need to practice some matches because after awhile; these scenarios make less sense since I didn't initiate myself into that situation.
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In practice, white wouldn't actually go in and capture them because the stones are considered dead as soon as they're prevented from making a second eye. Dead groups are removed from the board at the end of the game and treated as though they were captured without having to spend the moves doing it.
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Is that in all versions?
Score is based on territory, but when you capture stones, don't you get to use them to reduce the number of 'blank spots' or territory of your opponent?
So wouldn't you use your extra move?
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In the beginning it is best just to play a lot of games, that will give you a good grasp of the basic rules.
When I started playing I began with ~400 games against this 9x9 AI: http://www.heise.de/download/igowin-1120306.html
However, I don't recommend playing it regularly or too often, since it is horribly bad. The best way to improve is to play the strongest opponents; this thing can only give you the earliest lessons very quickly.
You can just join the teamliquid channel on KGS (under rooms - social), everyone is friendly and you could always ask for a review or game.
On May 04 2014 08:01 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is that in all versions?
Score is based on territory, but when you capture stones, don't you get to use them to reduce the number of 'blank spots' or territory of your opponent?
So wouldn't you use your extra move?
In your examples white would control the entire board, so there would be no advantage in forcing white to capture them, the score remains the same.
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What I enjoy most about the game is that you play essentially to the flow of your opponent. My naivety may be showing but I played a few and she was really aggressive; so I play defensively and ended up gaining more territory over her over-eagerness to take over.
I'll install KGS tomorrow, I want to finish this interactive lesson (I'm on 23 out of 36). But I'm excited to play and meet new people!
Is it best to start 9x9 or just go for the standard board?
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On May 04 2014 07:50 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 07:47 Roggle wrote:On May 04 2014 07:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
So in both cases, I only lose one stone?
In the second problem, wouldn't it take two stones to capture E9? Nope, you lose the entire group in both cases because the remaining stones only have one eye. In the first problem, the remaining black group only has two liberties, so in two more moves white could take the entire thing. Even if black tried to force a ko fight by recapturing F5 white would eventually be able to take the group. In the second problem it would take two more moves to capture E9, but there's nothing black can do to stop it from happening. So eventually the corner black group would also be reduced to only one eye and die. For the first problem, he would go F5, then he would finish me off at A4 to capture them all? Or? This is the only part I get confused because it feels like you need a complete surrounding with whites to capture all the blacks. I understand problem 2 Thanks! I do need to practice some matches because after awhile; these scenarios make less sense since I didn't initiate myself into that situation.
Did you make an account on KGS? You need java, then there is a webapp or you can download the java client. There is a teamliquid room there: Rooms->Room List->Social->teamliquid. I'm yoyoma there, several other people answering your questions are there too.
ETA: Start 9x9 IMO.
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I thought this topic was dead but you guys are all seem to be coming back :DDDD
I will do it now, but it is about 1:14 am here; so I don't know how long I will be on!
I'll be TorteDeLini (or Torte de Lini if they don't allow spaces!)
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The smaller board sizes are only good for beginners and young children, because there is less to be confused about. Play 19x19 as soon as you want or when you feel confident in your understanding of the rules.
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I installed the latest Java which apparently blocks KGS, any way to get around?
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Ah man I saw some threads about the on a Go site.... I have just not updated my Java because of things like this... I think there may be a workaround in this thread: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10180
Or you could try http://online-go.com/ instead. I'm KillerDucky there. The main drawback to online-go is the live player base is much smaller, although there are a good amount in the beginner range.
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I just got into KGS!
I used Online Go to play with my friend though, I liked it, but it also showed me moves I could and could not do; so I felt that wouldn't help me as I wouldn't be able to see when something is legal/illegal
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On May 04 2014 08:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
I just got into KGS!
I used Online Go to play with my friend though, I liked it, but it also showed me moves I could and could not do; so I felt that wouldn't help me as I wouldn't be able to see when something is legal/illegal
The only illegal moves are when you put a stone somewhere it would be captured immediately without the opponent doing anything (like in an eye), and doesn't capture a group itself. Or if you put the board in the exact same position as last move (Ko).
You should be able to see those. The rest are just useless stones which suicide, it's dumb but not illegal (think a stone in a 2*1 eye)
What is really important and difficult to do is find where are the weaknesses in your stones, and the opponent's. Then you can take the initiative and ignore a small attack to press the issue somewhere vital. Gauging the importance of areas and potential moves is very hard though. Most of the times you'll get attacked and only then realise you're in DEEEEP shit. :-p
I'm too competitive to actually play Go against humans... I hate to be bad at the game and make glaring mistakes, so I'll wait a few more years to play online... (Already 3/4 years lol though, I should be around 20kyu maybe ?)
Just learning joseki, life and death and yose with several books and apps.
(yeah, I know, it's the only way to truly progress, but I can't involve the necessary time, same problem with WC3 and SC2 and DOTA2, that's why I don't play them.)
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You should play with me, I am terrible :D
I'm 30 kyu apparently; I like the idea of ranks in board games, not so much in online
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Why not :-)
I'd advise one book which I found extremely interesting : http://senseis.xmp.net/?MakingGoodShape
http://www.bengozen.com/book-review-making-good-shape/
Gives a lot of good advices on the strengths and weaknesses of many shapes of stones, helping you find the right move in a lot of situations, even for beginners. It might not be perfect since it was written by amateurs, but it's much easier to comprehend than most. It's hard to get in the mind of a top-pro :-p (exemple, this one : http://www.bengozen.com/book-review-basic-techniques-go/ )
It deals with the way to make your moves useful and with a purpose, answers the question "Why should I play that move ?", instead of just telling you "play that and you're alive".
For a start though, something like that : http://www.bengozen.com/book-review-graded-go-problems-for-beginners-vol-1/ is perfect, showing you usual moves, shapes and obvious errors, in a wide range of situations. To familiarize yourself with things you will be encountering and knowing how to deal with them. (and vol 2/3/4...)
I can scan a few sample pages of these books if anyone is interested, to get an idea if you're interested in buying them (not more though, copyright etc)
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Is there a way to upload a replay? I played someone today that went very poorly. It was my first match but I got frustrated with how anxious and narrow-minded I got trying to get territories.
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the .sgf ? Any file sharing website, or the ftp/personal webpage your provider should give you ><
additionally, google tells me this : http://eidogo.com/upload
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EPT
