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myopia
United States2928 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:21 Mogwai wrote:my shen is fucking sick dude, you don't even know. Triforce is so boss on a ninja, goddamn. (assuming you're being serious here) How do you build your Shen? Runes/Masteries/items etc.. I tried running Sheen a few times on him and felt like I was doing less damage than if I just stacked sunfires. Shen dies as fast as anyone without tank items, and doesn't have imba Syphon Strike to boost his proc damage without +damage items. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:54 myopia wrote: (assuming you're being serious here) How do you build your Shen? Runes/Masteries/items etc.. I tried running Sheen a few times on him and felt like I was doing less damage than if I just stacked sunfires. Shen dies as fast as anyone without tank items, and doesn't have imba Syphon Strike to boost his proc damage without +damage items. Yeah... I'm not sure what to say here. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
...? El confusion. So yeah, uhhh. Edit: Also, I agree, Mog. I realized when ColZ stopped me in my tracks that I was being incredblazy with my hit+run and giving up a lot of free hits... because against the Vlad/Kog/MFs you can get away with it on Kassadin, he beats them down so hard. But against ColZ and last night some random game vs a scrub Ashe I was like holy shit I'm playing so predictable and lazy  | ||
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Jazriel
Canada404 Posts
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:57 Southlight wrote: I'll save you the grief and tell you I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic. A bunch of us are like PANTHEON IS LIKE A BETTER SHEN and he's like SHEN IS FUCKING BOSS YO and then he plays Shen that game, and the whole game he's like SHEN IS SO GOOD and Turkey's like HE CARRIES HARDER THAN PANTHEON and Mog's like NO ONE CARRIES HARDER THAN PANTHEON ...? El confusion. So yeah, uhhh. I mean he quoted my Captain Teemo epicness, clearly nothing being said is not dripping with sarcasm. | ||
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:54 myopia wrote: (assuming you're being serious here) How do you build your Shen? Runes/Masteries/items etc.. I tried running Sheen a few times on him and felt like I was doing less damage than if I just stacked sunfires. Shen dies as fast as anyone without tank items, and doesn't have imba Syphon Strike to boost his proc damage without +damage items. yea, I'm not serious, as utah said, it's an inside joke we have running. but seriously though, I still think Shen is better than Pantheon. I think they're both pretty good tbh though. When I did run triforce shen on my smurf it was loltacular. I jungled and did wriggle's lantern -> Triforce -> Banshee's LOLOLOLOL. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On September 23 2010 04:01 myopia wrote: I just want some new way to play Shen What're you doing at the moment? | ||
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
I built him: 8/21/1 mpen/mresplvl/mresplvl/hp cloth armor + hpots/ward (not jungling) hog hog merc sunfire/fon/sunfire/randuins in some order. I do OK with this setup but feel like there's something wrong whenever I play him | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
My biggest issue with Shen, and why I think he's a craptacular overrated hero, is that his offensive threat is gimmicky (Ki strike) and it's too weak... he's weaker offensively than Alistar late-game, and that's pretty depressing. He also farms really slowly, and his lane control got nerfed (Vorpal's damage). I'm not sure there's a whole lot more you can do except to stack HP because you need the Ki to hit hard, but... yeah. :| | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:38 Southlight wrote: first off, i totally disagree with your statement that kass is a hard-counter to nidalee. as a matter of fact, you're the first and only person i've heard say that. we ran into cornsalad's team the other day and they told me to go nid just to beat salad in lane (and to switch if we guessed the wrong lane). the god-team i posted a few pages back also ended up being vs cornsalad and (even though we ended up losing) i dominated my lane. i mean eskimo and scarlet gave up solos in order to let me go nidalee vs kass, something i'm sure they wouldn't have done if it was anything close to a "hard counter" in their minds.The game he streamed, I think, I made him fountain twice pre-6, and eventually he took Liz and beat me back, but that's what red-buff ranged anything does to most heroes. Other two games have generally gone the same except he's not had the luxury of taking red-buff (his jungler takes it instead of giving it to him) so it's one-sided for a really long time. 3-0 laning against him, have rendered his Nidalee worthless every time, but that shouldn't be a surprise because Kass is like a hard-counter to that. @red: I haven't played him in solo queue in a while, partly because I don't really play it anymore, and also because it's very rare I actually catch him playing solo queue with Nidalee anyways (because he fucks around more often than not in solo). And no I haven't caught him in a 5-man 'cause it's only recently that I played a bit of that, too, so I haven't had the pleasure (or pain?) of getting obliterated by an elite 5-man since s1 started. Edit: Without seeing how you beat GJ's Kass I really can't say. Did he misplay it? Do you play the matchup better? I don't know. Recently I got fought to a standstill by... I believe HighTemplarz' Nidalee, because he had MR runes and rushed Treads while chugging potions, nullifying all of my harass. All I know is I've never had trouble with HSGG's Nidalee and I can't tell you if he was always just dicking around or not. And it's not just HSGG I've rarely, rarely had issues solo mid with anything using Kass, I just brought up HSGG because he's an obvious big-name that I have a pretty good record against solo mid. For example I don't know what'd happen if I played vs Loco, I used to think Kass obliterates Trist but ColZDude fought me to a standstill a few nights ago and that blunted my ego, LOL. But I'd still go in assuming I can win, and berate myself if I don't. i don't have a 100% record against GJ's kass but GJ is a better player overall. pretty sure i'm ~100% against the combined might of dogkaiser, dubu, and cornsalad. always come out way ahead in cs even if i'm forced to bluepill before them. btw i just realized... when you say "beat" do you mean "force back to fountain"? because fountain =/= beat. in kat vs nid i've forced HS back to fountain but i've never "beat" him. sorry but i have a REALLY tough time believing that you're truly 3-0 vs the basically undisputed #1 nidalee player. and this is coming from a guy who finds HS intolerable, plays a good to great nidalee, and watched a lot of the other top nidalees in order to get better. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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yazu
United States255 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:26 redtooth wrote: zzz i feel like we're living in two different worlds here. i've never seen nufann play (nor mention that he could play) kass or morg and i've played both solos and 5s with and against him. same with DSBP (who i used to duo a bit with). don't really know merakon but i've already mentioned that salce is stupid. the only ones who i see consistently play kassadin in solo right now are dubu and cornsalad (lol). also, elementz REALLY doesnt belong on that list with grandjudge and regi. edit: sorry for the series of overly-challenging posts against you but i call bullshit on your claims that you've beaten HS nidalee "a couple of times". first off, he doesn't even play nid that much in solos anymore and i doubt you've been matched up with CLG or HS+koreans in 5s. secondly, i've beaten grandjudge's kassadin in solo lane a few times (preseason and season 1) and i fucking suck at nidalee compared to HS. unless you're telling me you're better than GJ at kass, there's no reasonable way you "have backed it up a couple of times". Trying to help Southlight here. You can actually watch his Kassadin destroy HotshotGG's Nid in his saved stream files on Livestream. I watched the specific game live on HotshotGG's stream when Southlight actually did best HSGG. He was even complaining during the game about kassadin, sorry to burst your bubble but he "has backed it up", just not sure about the "couple" times part. Don't go bashing people please with just your "opinion". I doubt Southlight/Utah has any reason to lie, maybe exaggerate a bit. =P Edit: Woops a little late in posting this, just ignore as he seems to have brought the same thing up. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
The reason why I feel (and many do, AFAIK, maybe not at top-tier play though?) Kass > Nidalee as like a hard-counter is because Nid's mid-game (Panther form) gets countered by silence + snare similar to the way Jax gets hard-countered by Kass. Couple this with, from my experience, undisputable lane domination by the Kass side (again, I'd be very interested in seeing you vs GJ, I'd probably learn from it o/) results in a very one-sided superiority by Kass, unless outside forces intervene (ie. Nidalee maintains red buff for a long time, ala the laning pain game I recorded a while ago where Nid had two straight full red buff durations in a row). Incidentally I am far from calling myself better than GJ as a player, and I've been known to have finkill-esque brainfart moments (I cost Phreak a game 2-3 nights ago by jumping into a gank FAIL) but at least in laning with Kassadin I don't know if I would say I'm significantly inferior to him... at least when I'm not letting bad habits get to me. Cornsalad is terrible, though, in the ~10 games I've seen him. Granted, all of these were pre-s1, so maybe he's gotten better since? IIRC it was always LOLCORNSALAD SO BAD though. You can have a hard time believing it but remember, for a long time I always felt HSGG was overrated, and you were like "but he's a great Nid" and I kept saying I was never impressed by his Nidalee, and chalked it up to me playing what I perceive to be a hard-counter to his main. This isn't something that's cropped up suddenly, I've been saying I've never found his Nidalee scary personally for months. By this point I'll wholeheartedly agree he's a better overall player than me but his Nid still doesn't scare me and there's no reason for it to, I've crushed it every time I've encountered it. | ||
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mesca
Austria46 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4239/pentakillmordekaiser.png) | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 23 2010 04:16 Southlight wrote: Looks standard >_> My biggest issue with Shen, and why I think he's a craptacular overrated hero, is that his offensive threat is gimmicky (Ki strike) and it's too weak... he's weaker offensively than Alistar late-game, and that's pretty depressing. He also farms really slowly, and his lane control got nerfed (Vorpal's damage). I'm not sure there's a whole lot more you can do except to stack HP because you need the Ki to hit hard, but... yeah. :| I find shen to be much more of a defensive tank than an offensive one. Rather than someone like rammus who can take a ton of damage while completely owning a carry, shen excels by keeping his team alive the whole game by porting/ multiple character taunts. I find most tanks to be completely situational tbh, but not in a way you can predict before the game. For example, amumu is a great pick if you are going to have a lot of 5v5 teamfights, but id rather have rammus or shen if fights are more spread out. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
Nidalee turns into a cougar, not a panther.... scrub. sarcasm aside though, utah Kass > HSGG Nid is not something new to the forums at all, no idea why it became a point of contention and e-peen drama with redtooth right now. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Edit: On September 23 2010 04:29 Mogwai wrote: Nidalee turns into a cougar, not a panther.... scrub. Oh... right... orz Edit2: @red I mean I'm not gonna lie, when you mentioned you beat GJ's kass a while ago, my first reaction was "what?? how the hell does THAT happen?" No offense to Turkey but it was like when his Vlad beat DarkTerrorBlade's Pantheon for first blood. Again, no offense to Turkey but I think DTB is pretty good, and Pantheon should crush Vlad anyways, so my first reaction (and only, because I have no means of seeing it again) was "what the hell is DTB doing?" not "NICE VLAD PLAY." It's that unfathomable of a defeat, to me. Edit3: By the way I don't know if I can back it up right now. My pride has been severely blunted by being bashed by ColZDude and some random scrub Ashe last night. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 23 2010 04:29 Southlight wrote: The port/taunt isn't really effective in teamfights, though, because the repeatability of the taunt I've found is sort of lacking. Like you use it twice and then have to wait ages to get the energy for it again, or something of the sort. You could do almost the same thing with Udyr, for instance, only you'd have a crapton of damage output. Or Alistar (you can even punt them away!), except you'd have a can't-get-killed card. That sort of thing. Some people swear by him, and he's definitely obnoxious for ganks et cetera but I dunno, I just find him... underwhelming. Which is really weird. Edit: Oh... right... orz His energy costs are ridiculous for his abilities, I agree with that. He depends a lot on the player because he is so dependent on timing, when to ult, when to taunt, and keeping his energy high enough to do all of those things. A bad shen is underwhelming, but a good one can be game changing. After all, he can be a free GA for your carry. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On September 23 2010 04:33 Two_DoWn wrote: His energy costs are ridiculous for his abilities, I agree with that. He depends a lot on the player because he is so dependent on timing, when to ult, when to taunt, and keeping his energy high enough to do all of those things. A bad shen is underwhelming, but a good one can be game changing. After all, he can be a free GA for your carry. ^^ The issue is similar to the issue Alistar often has against good teams. It's very common to find Shen/Alistar being the last man alive... because there is zero incentive to attack him. Both of them have some decent damage mitigation but it's not like Garen where you ignore him and one of your teammates is getting DEMACIAAAAAAAA'D to death. If you get what I mean? It's why I bring up his offensive capabilities, and is also why I feel like the only way (not trolling) to play Alistar and have an impact nowadays is to play AP Alistar. | ||
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