I'm just posting this on an impulse, but I recently got back into playing Civ IV:BTS and thought about playing it with other TLers, but as I remember how much of a pain it was getting an actual multiplayer game going sometimes http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=85112 I tried to think of something else.
Then I remembered the Dwarf Fortress succession game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99353 which seemed to lose interest rather quickly, and thought maybe it'd be a cool idea to do a Civ IV succession game. Basically what this means is that I'll compile an ordered list of people, the first guy in the list plays a set amount of turns, then saves the game, sends it to the next guy down the list, and he continues playing for his set amount of turns. Of course, extensive battle reporting, and pictures will be encouraged (maybe even required?) to keep everyone interested and updated.
Although unlike Dwarf Fortress, Civ IV doesn't seem to have an easy way to divide the turns. Dwarf Fortress had seasons/years which made it easy to just pass off the game after 1 year since all aspects of the game were fun. Although with Civ IV, the first 50 turns go by incredibly fast, and probably aren't that interesting. So I'm not sure how exactly how we'll divide the turns, but if there is enough interest for this maybe we can figure something out?
Again, just posting this on an impulse to see if anyone would enjoy this.
Finally got off my lazy ass to update this.
Note: If you're informed that it's your turn or you see that it's your turn, please post in this thread to let everyone know that you're working on it. If you don't want to double post, then you can edit your battle report in, but please acknowledge that it's your turn so we can all be assured that everything's still running. Thank you.
Latest save: [url blocked]
List of Players prOxi.Beater Fen Thratur noddyz deconduo Manit0u Biochemist narri
(crossed out names have already gone, and will/can go again once the last person on the list has gone)
If you're not on the list and you'd like to be, either post here or PM me. The list is in order, so if you see that the person above you already finished their turn, then you're next. I'll PM you to let you know when it's your turn, but if I can't for whatever reason, then just know that you can check when you're turn will probably be by how far along the list we are. If you wish to be taken off the list, then again, post here or PM me. Thank you.
However there would have to be time limits on moves (maybe a day?) and if people didnt meet their time limit a computer would play their turn. Otherwise it would go forever.
Europa Universalis,in any incarnation, is a great game to do this with. Not enough people paly it these days though! Good luck with the civ succession, I would maybe follow it.
Dividing up play time between participants can be done with game turns. Even the first turns go fast, they have a big influence on the rest of the game amirite?
And every participant should get at least a couple of turns in.
Wouldn't participate but if there's any interesting writing on it, I'd read it. (yes, boatmurdered style is preferable)
Piggybacking off what the above poster said I'm gonna repost these guidelines for playing a Succession Game I found off the civfanatics forums as I thought they were interesting/ a good way to start thinking about the game
Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win.
Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.
Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.
Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus. 1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn. 2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way. 3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency. 4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great, players should stop, and refer the question to the group.
Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.
Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude.
Golf: Automate sparingly. 1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.” 2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders. 3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates. NEVER fortify Great People.
Hotel: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it.
I haven't played Civ 4 in a long time so what do you guys think about the game specifics like:
Difficulty, what is the average skill level of the people playing? (I recall tearing through prince without many problems but, like I said its been awhile...) How many people are going to be playing? (although thats kinda the point of the thread isnt it...) Can we find a Civ we all like?(I always liked someone who had a good unit for an early war like Rome or the Celts...) What are some good map types? (no clue here.) Game Speed? (normal I always thought was way too fast.) Im sure there are about a million other things Im missing here too.
On December 01 2009 09:13 citi.zen wrote: Europa Universalis,in any incarnation, is a great game to do this with. Not enough people paly it these days though! Good luck with the civ succession, I would maybe follow it.
I play EU3, and I'd be up for a Europa Universalis succession game.
I might be interested in participating, but I'm having a lot of trouble installing BTS at the moment so no promises.
I've never played anything above monarch since playing a single player game competitively just doesn't make much sense to my brain. I also never finish my games. I'll put myself in an overwhelmingly good position and then leave the game, since the rest would just be riding the advantage home, which gets rather stale.
Nice to see there's interest in this. I guess we should probably vote for difficulty level, and map type then.
I'll post up a poll, but it'd probably be more accurate if you guys actually posted what you'd prefer since I don't want a bunch of people who don't plan to play spamming up "deity" or whatever. As for civilization, since there's too many to put them in a poll, I think I'll just see if people even want to pick a civ first, or if they'd prefer random.
Also, quick note to people who are interested, but aren't confident in their skills. Don't worry about it, just join anyways! In fact, it's probably more fun if we throw a few inexperienced guys into the mix (see boatmurdered ) and for what it's worth, noble is the highest difficulty I can beat consistantly.
On December 02 2009 01:39 Manit0u wrote: And how about a session of SMAC? It was far superior to Civ series.
fuck yes it was. Except for that it's really hard to figure out what to do when you first start playing. If they ever made a sequel/update with better graphics and a better UI, I would buy that shit in an instant.
Never got the multiplayer to work on that so I can't say if that was good or not but I'd imagine so with missiles and things.
On December 02 2009 01:39 Manit0u wrote: And how about a session of SMAC? It was far superior to Civ series.
fuck yes it was. Except for that it's really hard to figure out what to do when you first start playing. If they ever made a sequel/update with better graphics and a better UI, I would buy that shit in an instant.
Never got the multiplayer to work on that so I can't say if that was good or not but I'd imagine so with missiles and things.
planet crackers!
hell yes! i remember those were some heavy duty problem solvers, a couple of those with singularity power and they blew an enemy faction off the face of the planet and left a huge deep-sea crater behind it.
I've never played civ before, but this looks like a cool idea. Although not participating, I'll definitely keep up with you guys' progress. I think this can result in a very interesting thread. Lots of pics and stories please
This sounds like a ton of fun but I don't know how easy it would be to achieve. I feel like it would take an eternity to get through a game but if we were able to do it efficiently and well, then I think it would be really fun.The only civ i played seriously was the 2nd one, I played the 4th quite a bit and enjoyed it too but I got caught up in SC again and Civ4 kind of got shafted. I did buy Civ4 Complete from steam last night and i've played it probably 10 hours in the last day. Such a great game.
This sounds like a great idea! I used to read through succession games all the time when i was bored. Civ4 is such a fun game, and i'd be down to play, but im definetly more on the inexperienced side =p
I'd vote for playing on Prince level. This level should bring a bit of a challenge while still not imposing very big penalties on the player. Most people are able to be, at the very least, competitive at Prince level. Also, I don't mind us experience some difficulties in winning the game, as playing a steamroll wouldn't be very interesting to play or follow, and nobody would learn anything from the experience.
I think we should play on either Continents or Pangea since these are both very standard map types and archipelagio tends to be a very slow game.
As to leader I'm a huge fan of financial leaders. I've always loved Willem van Oranje's traits (cultural and financial) and his starting techs (Fishing and mining). His unique unit is pretty useless in most situations (6 strength galleon that can enter enemy borders freely) and his unique building comes quite late but is insanely powerful (adds a hammer in all tiles adjecent to a river aswell as all water tiles. Essentially Moai statues for every city). Any financial civ is fine though. Willem is just very easy to play since you have a lot of money, don't have to worry about expanding your borders early game and you get a nice production bonus lategame. Very newbie friendly.
On December 02 2009 21:15 prOxi.Beater wrote: I'd vote for playing on Prince level. This level should bring a bit of a challenge while still not imposing very big penalties on the player. Most people are able to be, at the very least, competitive at Prince level. Also, I don't mind us experience some difficulties in winning the game, as playing a steamroll wouldn't be very interesting to play or follow, and nobody would learn anything from the experience.
I think we should play on either Continents or Pangea since these are both very standard map types and archipelagio tends to be a very slow game.
As to leader I'm a huge fan of financial leaders. I've always loved Willem van Oranje's traits (cultural and financial) and his starting techs (Fishing and mining). His unique unit is pretty useless in most situations (6 strength galleon that can enter enemy borders freely) and his unique building comes quite late but is insanely powerful (adds a hammer in all tiles adjecent to a river aswell as all water tiles. Essentially Moai statues for every city). Any financial civ is fine though. Willem is just very easy to play since you have a lot of money, don't have to worry about expanding your borders early game and you get a nice production bonus lategame. Very newbie friendly.
Financial is by far the best trait I agree, but I have to say my favourite is Ragnar. Amphibous agressive macemen and fast ships make for an amazingly mobile army really early on.
Also what game speed? I'd usually play on quick for multiplayer, but with secession we can pretty much have it on any speed at all, as long as people don't get bored.
I think we should just play normal speed. I assume that this is the speed that most people will be comfortable with and I also think it should make for a good balance between depth and game speed.
I've also solved all of the problems I had with the game so I'm definitely up for this - count me in!
On December 02 2009 21:15 prOxi.Beater wrote: I'd vote for playing on Prince level. This level should bring a bit of a challenge while still not imposing very big penalties on the player. Most people are able to be, at the very least, competitive at Prince level. Also, I don't mind us experience some difficulties in winning the game, as playing a steamroll wouldn't be very interesting to play or follow, and nobody would learn anything from the experience.
I think we should play on either Continents or Pangea since these are both very standard map types and archipelagio tends to be a very slow game.
True, it probably would get boring pretty quickly if we happen to get a string of experienced players to set us up on a huge enough advantage that even the newbies would have no problem. So I personally will actually agree with playing on Prince, however I'm willing to play whatever gets the most votes (even Settler )
As for the map type, I'm actually very partial to Archipelago since I love playing with large navies, although I can see your point about it possibly taking a lot longer to get through.
For gamespeed, I should probably make another poll. I personally prefer Epic though, since you don't have to experience the problems of your army being obsolete as soon as they arrive at your enemy's borders as is the case sometimes with normal or quick, and it's not as tedious as marathon, but again, I'm willing to go with whatever the majority decides.
Edit: and I added a list of players so far. If I didn't add you in or you didn't want to be added in, then PM or post here.
Yeah, Ill play. Also I'd vote for Epic game speed as well. Large armies and wars get dominated too quickly by technological improvements on normal/quick.
I just started Civ4 last week after I have played countless of days worth of Civ3 over the past years. Seems to be OK although I don't really dig the cartoony style and I don't get a lot of the new concepts yet.
Can you slow down the tech advance somehow? If I tune down game speed everything is slower imo, I just want research to be slower compared to unit / building production.
Anyway GLHF at the succession game I will just continue playing Test Of Time (best mod ever).
On December 04 2009 22:55 zatic wrote: I just started Civ4 last week after I have played countless of days worth of Civ3 over the past years. Seems to be OK although I don't really dig the cartoony style and I don't get a lot of the new concepts yet.
Can you slow down the tech advance somehow? If I tune down game speed everything is slower imo, I just want research to be slower compared to unit / building production.
Anyway GLHF at the succession game I will just continue playing Test Of Time (best mod ever).
Game speed: Marathon
Also some insight for you guys when deciding what map to play on: If you're opting for Conquest then pangea is teh shiznit. If you want some cultural/diplomatic victory then go for islands/archipelago. You want your few cities safe and out of harms way.
Diplomacy kinda sucks in Civ compared to SMAC too When they're superior to you in army strength, demand some tech for a truce - you agree because they're gonna stomp you otherwise. Using the truce they bring a shitton of units within your borders, demand some more tech, launch a surprise attack on you, take a city, steal some tech and cash, force another truce... Sick.
Comparatively I think that production and research pace stays relatively similar to one another on all speed settings, but the slower the game speed the longer it takes for your units to become obsolete. In other words, going for a military victory is a lot easier on epic/marathon speed than it is on quick and normal.
It took me a lot of getting used to aswell when I moved from civ3 to civ4. It's really hard to realise that the game will actually punish you economically for building a lot of cities in civ4, whereas in civ3 there simply was none, a city was a net gain regardless of how much corruption there was. In civ4 building a lot of cities will really hurt your economy at first, but you get no penalties on production and once the city grows large enough and get some buildings to limit the upkeep cost it's easily worth it. There are just situations where you shouldn't build a city in civ4. The different improvements, the wealth of ressources and specialists all adds to the game's depth and enjoyment IMO, and I now fully believe that civ4 is the better game (didn't use to think so.)
On December 04 2009 22:55 zatic wrote: I just started Civ4 last week after I have played countless of days worth of Civ3 over the past years. Seems to be OK although I don't really dig the cartoony style and I don't get a lot of the new concepts yet.
Can you slow down the tech advance somehow? If I tune down game speed everything is slower imo, I just want research to be slower compared to unit / building production.
Anyway GLHF at the succession game I will just continue playing Test Of Time (best mod ever).
Yeah, making the game speed slower, ie. Marathon, will let you build units and use them for a long time in comparison to tech.
I'm not great at Civ4... I've played several games through to the end but haven't studied it competitively enough to get past prince or so. I'd be all for a succession game like this, as it seems like I know enough to not get us slaughtered but I'm still newbie enough that I would learn a lot from the better players and it would be fun!
What would you guys think of playing one of the more popular modpacks like Rise of Mankind 2? It adds a TON of new resources and techs, and its been in development for long enough that it seems to be quite balanced. I imagine that a lot of players might feel that the standard game is a little stale by now (especially if they're > prince level).
Don't play marathon, unit builds are 2x as slow but everything else is 3x as slow. If you want a fun conquest play boudica. Someone with nice bonuses to make the game easier, mehmed, zara, darius, the mayan. If you random you might end up with someone with difficult to use bonuses like a protective leader.
Hmm... I'll put my vote in for Epic speed. Normal just moves far too fast for a proper succession game, but Marathon will make everything tedious.
Prince difficulty for me because I personally found the jump from Prince -> Monarch to be one of the hardest in the game. Opinions may vary though.
Also, no offense to the beginner players, but if we play on a higher difficulty, we might want to have the more experienced players take the early game. This way, they'll set the pace for the rest of the game by hopefully designating city specialization, proper city placement, and of course how much we chop
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Everyone will just collude against the better player(s) and ultimately the game will devolve into long, grueling war where everyone is drafting away their cities and trying to raze the other person first.
Also, I think people might be underestimating the difficulty of the game against humans at the prince level. You're almost always going to be constantly at war (at least, I was- and I wasn't even trying to), and it's bad enough on noble. Granted, you don't have to deal with all the negatives of war against humans, but if someone leaves and they have to deal with the penalties of war against the computer that takes the person's place.... welllll... that kind of sucks.
Also, just be a complete jerk to everyone, if you give anyone quarter, they will start coordinating techs with your biggest competitor and feeding each other. Unless you disable tech trading, but I'm guessing no one would want to do that.
On December 01 2009 09:13 citi.zen wrote: Europa Universalis,in any incarnation, is a great game to do this with. Not enough people paly it these days though! Good luck with the civ succession, I would maybe follow it.
I play EU3, and I'd be up for a Europa Universalis succession game.
I'd definetly be up for EU3, maybe someone should start up a thread for EU? (i'm lazy lol)
On December 06 2009 08:26 zer0das wrote: I wouldn't worry about it too much. Everyone will just collude against the better player(s) and ultimately the game will devolve into long, grueling war where everyone is drafting away their cities and trying to raze the other person first.
Also, I think people might be underestimating the difficulty of the game against humans at the prince level. You're almost always going to be constantly at war (at least, I was- and I wasn't even trying to), and it's bad enough on noble. Granted, you don't have to deal with all the negatives of war against humans, but if someone leaves and they have to deal with the penalties of war against the computer that takes the person's place.... welllll... that kind of sucks.
Also, just be a complete jerk to everyone, if you give anyone quarter, they will start coordinating techs with your biggest competitor and feeding each other. Unless you disable tech trading, but I'm guessing no one would want to do that.
(And yes, I'm still bitter.)
Dude. They're not talking about playing against each other... They want to play a single-player game vs comp: one person plays it for 2 days or sth. and sends the save over to another one.
People still up for this? I'm not only willing to start, but I've actually already started a game and played out the first 38 turns while making sure to take screen shots at critical times (not very many)
The settings are normal map size, continents, epic speed, noble difficulty, temperate climate and medium sea level. In short: Everything is very standard and the leader was picked at random.
Here's the start:
We ended up randoming to Sitting Bull, a philosophical and protectionist leader. His umique unit is the dog soldier, a 4-strength axeman replacement that get a 100% bonus against melee units. His unique building is the totem pole, a monument replacement that gives all archery units 3 extra experience points, which coupled with the protectionist trait should make for some very scary archers.
So, do you want me to do a write-up up and send the game on to the next awesome person in the line?
I can see a nice production city coming out of this, at least as far as early game goes. Corn + 2 cows + 3 grassland hills + 1 dirt hill + marble and plenty of riverside grassland tiles to farm. That's a lot of production potential!
I thought the settler was on the tile where the warrior started. Fail
Now it's a bit less bad due to the corn + marble + settling on first turn deal. It's still going to get us nowhere early game though. The marble has me thirsting for the Oracle... Since it's Noble, I think we can get away with a Code of Laws slingshot.
Have to explore the surrounding area first though.
I'm not part of the list, but here's my two cents:
Should definitely not build a worker first. With the iron/bronze-less UU axemen, you should be pressuring nearby enemies to get better positioning. And to do this, you need to scout nearby territory with warriors.
Alternatively, you could gamble that you're not near anybody and go straight for a stonehenge to take benefit of your unique building. Can also follow this up with temple of artemis for the +1 priest to maximize your philosophical trait. Either way, you should be building a warrior first to scout out the area. It looks like you're near a lot of plains area (which isn't so good for growth), so you should see if you're going to have to kill opponent civs for some fertile grasslands.
Oh shit, totally forgot about this lol. Glad to see beater taking the initiative. Anyways, I'll agree with not building a worker first since scouting is probably our main priority in the very beginning, and a single warrior isn't very good at that.
Although if you're 38 turns in, then no worries. It's Noble so it shouldn't be bad at all.
I'm just about to go to bed after a long night of New Year celebrations (5:10 am). I'll do a write-up as fast as I can and get this show on the road. Falcynn, I'll leave you in charge of who's to go next.
I've also discovered a slight misinformation in my post. We're actually playing on prince difficulty and I totally forgot to change the name to something fittting (Instead of Rune Martinussen). This was all due to me being sloppy and not really checking everything out before getting on with the game. I really hate archery units and I really hate protective, and I didn't realize that the last game that I played had been on prince difficulty. Overall I hate relying on wonders for early game and would much rather go for something solid and standard. Big question before I go to sleep: do you want me to do a writeup of my first 38 turns that I already did or do you want me to start over from turn 0 and follow the advice that I got from posting my start situation? I have both saves
To restart or not is up to you. Either way it should be fun due to the nature of succession games
I'll also get started on contacting everyone who already signed up a month ago to see if they're willing to play, and then I'll contact some of the more recent posters to come up with the list.
Start looks ok but Sitting Bull? Christ. Two worst traits in the game. I say you use the 38 you played. Half of the fun of these is people doing there own thing and everyone else getting annoyed.
Have to test the save on mu dodgy pirate version before i know if i can play (i bought the game but the disk got chewed by my last pc). Mind sending me the save just to see if it works?
Alright, I'll go with the original 38 turns, since that seems what people would like me to do.
We all know that Team Liquid is the greatest website in the world, so it is only fitting that we embark on a mission to dominate the World, either by military might, cunning diplomacy, or simply shooting ourselves away from the hell hole that the random map generator has given us. It doesn't matter how, but at the end we must stand victorious.
This is our settings:
A very standard layout at prince level
Here's our start:
Sitting Bull... Protectionist and philosophical, a pretty bad Unique Building IMO and an interesting Unique Unit. Not exactly what I was hoping for. I hate archers and I almost never build any, and here we're stuck with a UB that along with the protectionist trait gives us pretty scary archers, that I never build. Oh well, I'm sure we'll manage.
I decide to move my warrior north since this is most likely to reveal new terrain that would have any influence my decision on where to settle. As is turns out my worker spotted a source of marble, which will add some production to our city, as well as enable us to go for some wonders that we would otherwise not have attempted to build. The terrain to our east looked kind of dull and seeing how there's a river flowing north-west from our capital, I decide to move our settler 1 west and settle on the first turn. as the city was created I see that we've hit the jackpot and gotten corn within our Big Fat Cross (and a complimentary hut!):
I begin construction of a worker in Cahokia and begin researching animal husbandry so that we can start working the cows (we started with aggriculture). Once Cahokia's borders expanded and popped the hut we received a pretty useful map of the lands to our south. Our warrior is first sent farther up north to scout things out, where he finds a hut that pops us 142 minerals (that's our currency right?), but once I ran into some desert and desert hills I changed direction and sent him over west, where he managed to find some pretty promising land and another inviting hut. But alas! Those villagers didn't seem to like being visited by the friendly Native American folk and decided to rebel:
Well crap! our warrior fell to the barbarian horde, but not before taking down one of their warriors. I think this is also where I realised that we were playing on prince difficulty since I've never seen barbarians pop from a hut on noble before. In 3550 BC we finished researching animal husbandry and started working on mining, which will take us 9 turns to research
In 3425 BC our worker finished and I sent him over to farm our corn. Construction of a worker is begun next. Some people might have switched over to producing that warrior right when they popped those barbarians, but I'm pretty sure that they won't come knocking on our door any time soon and just hang out in that general area.
In 3325 BC we finished researching mining and work was begun on bronze working, to whip out those settler, workers, warriors and, well everything, extra fast. We'll also be able to get some really fast dog soldiers out, which should come in very handy
on turn 33 our worker finishes farming the corn and is sent over to work the closest cow. Early game sure is dull when you don't have a scout
In 3050 our warrior is completed and this is where I decided to end it off:
The world as we know it:
We have a decent amount of ressources in the sorrounding land and the area where I popped the barbarians from the hut looks really nice. Our biggest problem at this point is probably our lack of intelligense. I lost the warrior relatively early and so we don't know nearly enough about sorroundings, although we did get kind of lucky with that map, which is something that's pretty rare to see. An actual useful map... Never happens.
So, what should we build next? What should we do with our warrior? What should we ressearch after bronze working finishes? Where should we put our next city? (or cities?)
Personally I'd probably begin working on a barracks to grow the city to size 3 and then switch production over to a settler, and then switch production over again to a dog soldier once bronze working finishes. The dog soldier is whipped as soon as possible and production goes back to a settler, which is of course also whipped as soon as possible. I'd say the best city site is up to the north-west with the pig, floodplains and hills. The problem with this site if of course that we know there will be at least 2 barbarian warriors up there, so sending a single warrior as an escort to that site is out of the question.
Anyways, now the game is going and I hope I didn't make anyone cringe too bad with my decision making.
Alright, amazing. Thanks again for getting the ball rolling on this. My home computer's out of commission for a while, so I PM'd the next guy on the list (Fen) to see if he's still willing to continue this. I'll continue moving down the list in the order I originally listed, and I'll get around to updating it with all the new entries.
what is the best source for a completely noob to understand some fundamentals of the game. resources/trading/military/production/food/population... what it all means and how to tie them together type of deal. not looking for specific utility of everything.. just a broad picture and what are some general goals of the game.
i look in civipedia but i have a hard time making them all relate, maybe I just need to play more?? and late game i have so much stuff to manage, i just start to pick things randomly and don't know what i'm doing.
I'll play if you want me to, but I don't think I've played on prince before so maybe later on once we're well established and there's less damage I can do
Are we still going to try for the code of laws slingshot?
I think I'm going to pass, too much pressure but I'm excited to follow this thread as the game continues, has TL tried to get a actual multiplayer game going? Are they too long? Are there other problems with them?
On January 06 2010 07:54 BabyRhino wrote: what is the best source for a completely noob to understand some fundamentals of the game. resources/trading/military/production/food/population... what it all means and how to tie them together type of deal. not looking for specific utility of everything.. just a broad picture and what are some general goals of the game.
i look in civipedia but i have a hard time making them all relate, maybe I just need to play more?? and late game i have so much stuff to manage, i just start to pick things randomly and don't know what i'm doing.
thanks for help civ veterans.
Civfanatics.
It's the teamliquid of civilization.
I'd specifically go to the war acadamy. It'll teach you the basics and not so basics.
Horray, I’m glad we got this going. I’m also really glad we are playing on prince mode and not noble. A challenge is much more interesting than having a bunch of players steamroll a noble game. Sitting bull isn’t a bad leader either, as he has great defensive capabilities, which will help the weaker players out.
So, let’s see where we are at
Ok, losing scouting at the start is a real pain, but we have a decent amount of map discovered. I think returning to scouting is important so we can work out where we are in the world and which directions we should be expanding in.
Having marble also means that we should go for the oracle. This should give us a big advantage, allowing us to jump to code of laws and grabbing confucism. Being a philosophical leader, the oracle will also get us a great prophet quickly, so we can get a religion going as well.
First thing I decided to do was to switch the production from the barracks to a warrior. Thanks to the minerals given to us by the villagers, we don’t need to chop a forest for our first dog warrior, and the forest can be saved for chopping something like the oracle later. Also, getting those 2 cows working for us will really boost us up early game rather than have our workers cutting trees.
2 Moves later and we’ve been given this choice. Herbalists have found some rare plants that will make people healthy (or so they say) but need some guinea pigs to test it out. Now I’ve never known if the results of these things last the entire game or not, but I based my decision on them lasting.
Our options are: +1 in all cities for 10 turns +1 in all cities temporarily and a 20% chance to -1 population, but a 35% chance to gain a (+) for the rest of the game +2 in all cities temporarily and a 50% chance to -1 the population, but a 90% chance to gain 2 (+) for the rest of the game.
Now our folks are pretty happy at this stage in the game as the city is small, and we have plenty of food to bring the population back up, so I figured the 90% chance to hit the 2 (+) was worth it for later in the game when this city becomes big and starts smelling bad.
And success, we managed to not be in the lame 10% As you can see, the city is still happy, and now we have that bonus for the rest of the game. We are back down to a population of 2 however. But that’s fine.
So a few moves later, Bronze working is complete. This allowed us to upgrade one of our warriors to dog soldiers, which will be very strong against those warriors up top, and allow us to settle another city.
The second pasture is done, and the city is producing like a powerhouse. The bronze working also reveals copper, which is always nice, and coupled with the marble and cows, will make our capital a production giant as the game continues on. The workers move over to the copper to start the mine.
I also instate slavery because everyone loves slaves.
After the 1 turn of anarchy, I realised I’ve made a mistake. I was originally going to wait for the city to grow to level 4 before switching production from the barracks to the settler, however due to my earlier “mistreatment” of our citizens, they are pissed, and an extra person is just going to be 1 extra face, rather than any help at all. So work on a settler begins straight away.
The dog solider sets off to go get some revenge on those bastard warriors up top. With 4 strength and 100% damage to melee, he should make light work of them.
I start research on masonry. This will allow us to build on the marble, which will be key for the oracle later. It also gives us access to the great wall and the pyramids. Without stone, the pyramids are unlikely, but the great wall may be possible to get before the computer.
Turn 51 and a monkey decides to make a list of who he thinks is the richest in the world. Too bad he only knows one person (us), but he considers us the world’s poorest losers anyway.
So our dog warrior arrives at the scene where all those hundreds of years ago, a peaceful warrior came to make friends with a small village of natives… who then proceeded to beat him to death with clubs. He’s pumped for some revenge, but all he finds is this guy and some hero warrior who probably took on the entire group.
Peace is declared
Our dog warriors scout upwards but find nothing but tundra.
Turn 59 and our settlers are done. The barracks is 5 turns away from being complete, and the people are no longer completely pissed at us, so we can let the city grow.
While I should really escort these settlers upwards, the area seems fairly safe with William’s hero warriors up there, so I figure we can risk sending the settlers by themselves to meet up with the dog warriors.
Turn 61 and Masonry is complete. Research begins on the next logical thing on the list. The wheel.
So here is the known world at the end of turn 61. We still don’t know very much about the map, but we have gained copper. I did a small amount of scouting with the dog solider to see what’s up north, but it looks very cold and crappy.
Now here is the big question. As you can see, the game has decided that the best spot to settle is just here. Where the settler is located gives it access to flood plains, silk, pigs and some hills, and plenty of grassland. A great spot to build a city. However I know a lot of people like to build their cities in ways that grab as many resources as possible. There are a few spots that this city would flourish. So I have put a couple of other circles in where I think cities could be built.
Poll: Where should this city go? (Vote): Blue Circle (Vote): Red Circle (Vote): Green Circle (Vote): Other
Also, with masonry complete, we can go for the pyramids or the Great Wall of China. Without stone, we are at a disadvantage and the computers are generally pretty quick at grabbing the wonders, but both would be very advantageous if we managed to acquire them. Remember we also have some wood we can chop. We dont want to forget the Oracle however. So this can go to the vote as well.
Poll: Should we go for a masonry wonder? (Vote): Pyramids (Vote): Great Wall of China (Vote): Neither
This stuff is lots of fun. Good luck to whoever is next on the list!
Also, for those who are worried bout the difficulty, don't be. This is supposed to be about fun, not playing a perfect game. If we lose, we can all lol and start another one. Theres also a lot to learn here as well from other players.
Nice writeup and a good set of rounds. I'm actually leaning towards just settling on the blue circle for a nice, strong science city and then settling a third city 1west of the corn up there. The problem with settling on the blue circle is that we're going to need a way to pop the borders ASAP, since the inner ring isn't that attractive and in order to do this we are going to need to research mysticism and get a quick totem pole pole up. By settling our third city 1west of the corn we grab all off the ressources up there and get another nice production city, which will come in handy for producing military and settlers while the capital is busy working on the Oracle.
In short: Settle on the blue circle, settle third city 1west of the corn and change research to mysticism
that was a great write-up Fen, it was lots of fun to read, I'm hoping that I'll really start learning how you're actually supposed to play this game from reading this thread. I'm excited for whoever plays next!
Wait...how many turns are doing again per player? (I realize I should know this since I should be organizing this, but I'm still confused)
Either way, great to see this is really getting going now. I'll PM the next player to nudge them into starting. I think I'll just put myself last in the current set list since I have no idea when I'll get around to getting my computer at home fixed.
As for the game itself. I'd say blue circle since we can always grab up the resources through cultural borders, and it seems as if it'd be more important in the long term to have good potential for production. Also, I never go for masonry wonders since I always get beaten out, if you guys feel lucky we can go for it, but I'm not very optimistic about it.
Falcynn, I'd say that each person should play around 20 turns before passing the game on to the next person in line, however if turn 23 or 18 turns out to be a more logical place to end it off you should just do so. It's not too strict. I cheated and did almost 40 turns since I went first.
Alright, sounds good. It's probably best if we're not strict about it, I just wanted to make sure there was some recommended limits.
Also, looking at the picture again, I actually think we should build the city one tile left of the blue circle. Once our borders expand to the 21 tile cross, we'll have two plains hills and one or two grass hills (depending on if we farm the pig tile or not) which will be good for production, and we'll have flood plains and possibly a pig farm for some nice food production, and we'll only have one desert tile.
hey can i get in on this? im a monarch/emperor player and i missed out on the start
fat cross marble just begs for an oracle -> metal casting -> forge engineer -> machinery pop which is pretty nice for setting up a comfortable ancient era
phi leaders also like the pyramids for SE, but you can play traits any way you want and without stone its a crapshoot
On January 07 2010 15:37 prOxi.Beater wrote: Falcynn, I'd say that each person should play around 20 turns before passing the game on to the next person in line, however if turn 23 or 18 turns out to be a more logical place to end it off you should just do so. It's not too strict. I cheated and did almost 40 turns since I went first.
Oh, I just figured 40 turns esp for the start should be the average. I ended up doing 39 turns for my turn.
Somewhat on accident I totally ignored the poll on where to build the city(Short story even shorter: I can't read). In retrospect I kinda wish I built the city where the blue circle/poll suggested, but its too late for that, and I'll probably complain later in this report about it. Here is where I built the city.
Here we start on pigs, a hill and are next to the river, and we'll get the both silks and the corn when the borders of Poverty Point(Never having played as the Native Americans, I kinda laughed when the name of the city popped up) expand, finally because of the river its really fast and easy to move troops from one city to another quickly.
Right when the barracks in our beautiful capital of Cahokia finished I built another warrior so we had some form of scouting right away and could find a decent location for a soon to be build third city.
After that Cahokia built another worker followed by a Dog Warrior and a Settler as my admittedly rusty Civ intuition felt it was about time for another city, and the game seemed to agree with me, as it kept suggesting for me to build a settler at every opportunity.
On the research front:
Because of my lack of foresight when placing the second city, I really have no good place to build a third city and so I kinda blindly sent the settler out west as there is tundra to the north and ocean to the east.
I also got this mission to build 8 chariots before the classical age from my military commanders, which despite their name really seem to do nothing but assign silly quests like this. Regardless, getting these chariots requires getting horses, and I've never found chariots to be amazingly useful anyways, but its still something to keep in mind.
Looking to expand south, I found a lot of sugar and another horse, but sugar is pretty worthless until you get Calendar for Plantations which inst happening anytime soon, and aside from the sugar its looking pretty barren. But still something to keep in mind for a city in the not so distant future.
Since I wasted time researching pottery, and the wheel its probably too late to go for the oracle, (which requires Meditation and Priesthood before I can start building) despite having marble to halve the construction time of the wonder itself, as both Hinduism and Buddhism were discovered about 1000 years (20 turns) ago.
So instead I went for Hunting -> Archery as my next research objective.
Since I sent our settler blindly west in hopes of finding a decent spot to build a third city, (I really should have build that second city at least a tile or so southeast of where it is) I ran straight into the Dutch Empire. In an attempt to stop slow the expansion of the so to be hated dutch I build the city at the closest to a reasonable place there in the area, and immediately start building a totem pole (monument) for some culture to defend against the dutch's cultural borders.
Meanwhile there is a steady stream of barbarian warriors approaching the capital from the south but a single dog soldier is currently disposing of them without much of an issue.
As archery finishes, I am unsure of what to upgrade next. On one hand a war with the dutch is going to happen sooner rather than later, and it would probably be in our interest to conduct this war while our unique unit and building, can affect the outcome of the battle. Alternatively it looks like we're pretty locked in by water and as such sailing(?) is a possible choice.
As it stands there are lots of un-chopped forests, to give us a production bonus if we want to start making armies to attack the dutch with.
There is a pretty decent city to be built to the southeast of the capital, to pick up some gold corn and silk, the black circle is where I would build it, but looking at my earlier city placements, thats a decision, the forum/my successor will have to make.
With these decisions to be made, as well as it being a nice round turn 100 here is a good place to pass the game along, to the next player.
Here is our civilization at the end of my turn:
The lack of any sort of scouting unit in the early game ended up giving me problems as I didn't know where good places for the cities would be, but even with the information I had I still probably should have done a lot better, even for a mediocre Civilization player such as myself.
With there not being much room to expand and the Dutch literally on our borders, I fear war is coming soon to the Native American Nation, and a military buildup should begin. On the other hand we have no money either so expanding to the gold southeast of the capital and building some cottages also sounds like a good idea. But these are choices I leave with my successors/responses on the forum.
In retrospect I feel somewhat justified not going oracle with the Dutch being so close, but honestly there was a serious lack of planning throughout my turns, and I decided to skip oracle without thinking of this at all, and mostly just because I didn't really think about what I was researching.
Here is the save, and good luck to whoever follows after me.
Falcynn PMed me (thanks!) about the next turn, but as I said earlier in the thread I'll be sitting this out but intently watching so that I will be able to play in the next game (hopefully there will be one). This means that Thratur is up, doIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could probably kill netherlands now that you have copper, plenty of forests and slavery available. And you seem to have very very very few workers :O
i think securing that goldmine should be a priority. getting early gold is good i think. though 4 cities might seem much and that 3rd city next to orange is kind of unfortunate and could cause problems with close boarders and all.
Killing the netherlands would get you a religion too, and the happiness bonus is always nice. That is unless you do the oracle -> code of laws in which case its unnecessary.
So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
On January 10 2010 23:23 Zavior wrote: You could probably kill netherlands now that you have copper, plenty of forests and slavery available. And you seem to have very very very few workers :O
btw do you have 4000bc save?(turn0)
I do have the 4000bc save. It's on my other computer though and I don't feel like powering it up just to upload a file before I go to sleep. I'll post it tomorrow.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
You obviously know the game much better than I do. If I try to found more than three cities in the early game before I tech up to the $$ buildings, I run out of money and my research stops. What am I doing wrong?
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
While I dont disagree that I suck at the game:
That stuff gets talked about alot because those big grand strategy goals, like going for oracle, or when to attack, are things that can be discussed and talked about on the forum, and are big ideas that set up how the next player plays and the outcome of future turns, while things like proper worker management arent necessarily conducive to conversation on a forum of what is at best casual civ players.
Dammit, I keep getting excited for every new post in this thread, hoping for a new succession generation. The images and stories of your developing empire is awesome, keep it up!
I'll probably get inspired to grab a copy of Cic IV due to this thread alone.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
There's never been a civ iv guide which teaches priorities correctly. The thread is more typical than funny. Be content to see what happens.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
You obviously know the game much better than I do. If I try to found more than three cities in the early game before I tech up to the $$ buildings, I run out of money and my research stops. What am I doing wrong?
There's various tricks you can use, but the basic thing is- make sure all of your cities are in good locations (with food), not too far away, and that you have enough workers to improve them all. If you have money problems then make more cottages.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
While I dont disagree that I suck at the game:
That stuff gets talked about alot because those big grand strategy goals, like going for oracle, or when to attack, are things that can be discussed and talked about on the forum, and are big ideas that set up how the next player plays and the outcome of future turns, while things like proper worker management arent necessarily conducive to conversation on a forum of what is at best casual civ players.
fair enough. I guess it just surprises me to see casual players talking about rush timings and oracle gambits. that's the advanced stuff, that maybe is necessary on immortal or deity, but usually isn't.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
There's never been a civ iv guide which teaches priorities correctly. The thread is more typical than funny. Be content to see what happens.
yeah I'm not criticizing you guys, I think you're doing fine so far. btw you probably shouldn't rush Williem- he's far away, you've got plenty of space, and he's a good trading partner.
i think you need to rethink the system of succession. having a list and messaging people in turn would be fine if everyone was super active and had a heap of time but for something like this it seems a bit..slow.
perhaps a simpler system would speed things up a bit? 1) check to see nobody is currently playing 2) make a post to inform others you are going to take a turn 3) take your turn 4) make a post detailing your progress, containing the new save and informing others it is open for a new player.
then you would just need some simple self regulating, only 1 turn per person every 10, or X turns depending on popularity. if somebody sabotages the game or does not write an acceptable post about their turn then their save is simply ignored. if somebody plays poorly but otherwise tries hard the succession lives on and the next person deals with it!
Concerning succession games: the organizer (falcynn) and the person who initiated the game are responsible for making it run smoothly. If they don't put in the effort, then people get confused and forget, and turns aren't completed on time.
Second, everybody playing the same number of turns isn't as effective as playing to certain milestones or major decisions. 20 turns of war might require just as much attention and decision making as 40 turns of economic recovery. 5 turns late game might have more action than those 20 turns of war.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
That's not true imo. REX'ing is not really the way to go, as there are a lot of restrictions on city placement and unless you turn the no. of ai's down on normal maps (pangaea at least) you will not have time to build many cities before getting isolated. The most successful games I have are generally the ones where I build one or two settlers, develop my cities by 2000 to be productive, and axe rush/sword rush/later cat rush a neighbor (preferably one with a religion).
Speaking of which, the dog warrior is not worse than a normal axeman because he does not require copper. You can start spamming 4 str units as soon as you research bw, which is usually the first tech players get. If the players had known willem was so close (actually he might be a little far for this) they could have started building dogs with city raider I and chop/slave them out at a 2:1 ratio with willem's archers while willem still had one city. The same rush applies to, but is actually better for, maya with its holkan (though they need to research bronze working + hunting).
On January 11 2010 14:18 igotmyown wrote: There's never been a civ iv guide which teaches priorities correctly. The thread is more typical than funny. Be content to see what happens.
On January 11 2010 16:46 igotmyown wrote: Concerning succession games: the organizer (falcynn) and the person who initiated the game are responsible for making it run smoothly. If they don't put in the effort, then people get confused and forget, and turns aren't completed on time.
Second, everybody playing the same number of turns isn't as effective as playing to certain milestones or major decisions. 20 turns of war might require just as much attention and decision making as 40 turns of economic recovery. 5 turns late game might have more action than those 20 turns of war.
Agreed with the first part, hence why I'm now (I know, I'm way late in doing this) trying to set up a schedule people can follow fairly easily.
As for the second part, I'm fine with not having a set amount of turns. If someone's at war and they feel like they should be the one to finish it, then I'm all for that. Or if someone feels like they haven't gotten a chance to do anything and they want to go for a few extra turns, it's also fine. I just wanted to have a loose limit in place so people can have a rough idea of where they might like to end their turn.
On January 11 2010 06:42 Luddite wrote: So after spending far too much time playing Civ IV, I have to say reading this thread is kind of funny. People that are new to the game just don't understand what's important and what isn't. Talking about what order you found cities in, whether or not to build the oracle, whether or not to rush with your UU (the dog soldier sucks, btw. He's worse than a regular axemen usually). None of that stuff matters. All you really need to worry about is making sure that you have enough workers to keep your people productive, enough food to grow them fast, and that you settle as many cities as you can as fast as you can. If you do that, you'll win up through ~monarch easily.
That's not true imo. REX'ing is not really the way to go, as there are a lot of restrictions on city placement and unless you turn the no. of ai's down on normal maps (pangaea at least) you will not have time to build many cities before getting isolated. The most successful games I have are generally the ones where I build one or two settlers, develop my cities by 2000 to be productive, and axe rush/sword rush/later cat rush a neighbor (preferably one with a religion).
Speaking of which, the dog warrior is not worse than a normal axeman because he does not require copper. You can start spamming 4 str units as soon as you research bw, which is usually the first tech players get. If the players had known willem was so close (actually he might be a little far for this) they could have started building dogs with city raider I and chop/slave them out at a 2:1 ratio with willem's archers while willem still had one city. The same rush applies to, but is actually better for, maya with its holkan (though they need to research bronze working + hunting).
On January 11 2010 14:18 igotmyown wrote: There's never been a civ iv guide which teaches priorities correctly. The thread is more typical than funny. Be content to see what happens.
first of all be careful about the strategy guides there. Some of them are great, some are terrible, most of them focus on really specific situations that don't come up very often. IMO this is the best one: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301724. Very basic, very important.
And yeah, there are situations where you don't have enough room to build cities peacefull, but they don't come up very often except at deity level. 6 cities is enough, and on this map i'm sure they'll have no trouble making 12+ cities peacefully. Rushing them CAN be very good, but it usually just adds a whole lot of random variance. So sometimes it works great, other times the dice rolls go against you and you're screwed.
Resourceless does help a little, but not much. In a situation like this, where you've got copper nearby, you'd be so much better off with regular axemen. The dog soldiers are just terrible for tying to beat archers inside enemy cities. chariots would work much better. I don't deny that is possible to do it, but for the same price you could have made like 5 extra cities lol, and you'd have a friendly trading partner as well .
Here's my report! Even though I am a prince player, I feel like I'm bad and that I'm going to make us lose. Must be the pressure but I identified a few bad decisions I made.
So I first notice that we are behind in points! Let's try to catch up. I start by making a farm so one of our city can grow better :
It seems that Pliny like us! And that Willem isn't a threat at all. He will be easy to handle later, but I'll leave that to my successors.
Our scout falls into a trap. I have no choice but to take the forest defense upgrade to heal him and try to survive!
Our scout will die, but our warrior will reach the end of the world! Looks like we have a great peninsulae just for us. I also notice that we are short on gold. We are going to be at 60% research rate starting next turn I guess.
Another trap! But I swear we are going to survive this time.
Here I decided to build a farm so we could use the hammer tile effectively. I think it was a bad decision and I should have sacrificed population to complete that building. Anyway, it's too late now.
That settler is finally ready and I'm making another scout to explore where the last one died. It happened to be a bad idea, but I love exploration. I send my settler at my predecessor's suggestion. I'm affraid it may not grow well but we will have enough food for both heavy gold ressources. This will be great for our midgame push later.
Making a cottage here. I like to build cottage at places like this, because our town needs food to grow and is going to take the food tiles. However when our town lacks food we will have to destroy the cottage for a farm. However, considering the amount of food we have here, I don't think we're gonna lack food for a long time, so some cottages there would be perfect for a great economy.
A new town is born! We are unlucky enough to miss the fish but we would have lost the silk tile anyway so that spot looks fine. Meanwhile I started a worker because I felt we were short on workers. Also building some roads.
That scout was a bad idea
We finally got sailing! I love that technology, but it's better when we have coastal cities. I don't know what I can do immediatly with it, sadly. Gonna take Writing next. I think that was one of my mistake, because Iron working may have been more useful to destroy our opponent. However that brings us closer to currency, so it's not that bad!
Here I add more cottages. Our economy is gonna rocks!
Hmmmm. I wasn't sure about this. Considering that our economy is going to destroy everyone in 2009 with this gold mine coming, I thought about getting another Settler. It may or may not be a good idea. I'm used to Financial/Organized leader so I'm not sure about this, but I think it is okay.
Sad, but what can we do? That put us a bit behind sadly.
Mooooooore cottage
This is interesting. First we didn't have a religion so it's great to get one some day. Also, it will improve our relationship with Willem. I just had a turn of anarchy to lose so I accepted.
Stupid barbarian. I'm gonna own you.
Owneeeed. But that was kind of lucky in fact.
And that's it! My successor should bring back that warrior to town. He'll have to analyse himself where to put the Settler because I didn't really look. I think we have a strong advantage over Willem because of that peninsulae. We just have to destroy him and we will be the masters of that continent!
Goal achieved : we have 1 more point than Willem right now.
Now to download the save : [url blocked]
I must say this is really fun! I'm gonna contribute more starting today.
On January 13 2010 05:47 Zavior wrote: Why was Chaco Canyon founded 1 tile off the shore? :o
Pretty sure that was the only square to get the Gold+Silk+Corn(? some food resource) in the city, but honestly if It was known the fish was there before building the city, It totally should have been build on the coast.
Yeah, it was the only square to get all 3 resources. I should have checked for the fish with my soldier. It would have been way much better for a gold city. I remember having a tough time deciding where to put the city. I think it should still be a fine gold city, at least for the time being. Sorry about this. Once we get rid of these jungle tiles we'll put a lot of cottages and make tons of cash.
Alright, well TehPanda just let me know that he's busy with Uni now and would like to be taken out of the list, so it's noddyz's turn and I just PMd him. Don't know if he plans to play since apparently he was having troubles updating BTS properly, so I'll give him a day or so to get back to me if he'll be able to carry out his turn.
Alright, looking at the save now, will write as I see things of interest.
The totem pole in mound city should have been whipped ages ago. Willem is creative and we need to get as much culture into that border city as possible, as well as popping the borders (totem pole + a library should do the trick until we can start conquering him)
We only have 4 worker, we need more! still lots of uncut forests.
Once writing finishes we should whip libraries in all our cities and have one of them run two scientists to get us an early great scientist (poverty point would be the best bet, since it can work two floodplains cottages and 2 scientists)
Iron working is definitely something we'll want to get sooner rather than later. We need it to conquer willem and to cut down down the jungles in the southern peninsula. On a somewhat similar subject, I think we should probably wait to settle it until after we've all but eliminated Willem, have iron working and plenty of free workers. Therefore I think we should use the settler that's under construction to settle somewhere up north, maybe here:
This city site will have plenty of food and a few hills to work. It'll never be a good city but it's a decent filler and we really need some coastal cities for the later parts of the game.
We need 1-2 more dog soldiers to deal with barbarians. Our capital came pretty close to being forced to whip a defender.
How I would probably end up settling the southern peninsula:
okay you guys make the game look good and since one of my friend plays it i decided to buy the complete set. lets hope i can get past the learning curve, which is apparantly very large :D
On January 14 2010 21:13 We Are Here wrote: okay you guys make the game look good and since one of my friend plays it i decided to buy the complete set. lets hope i can get past the learning curve, which is apparantly very large :D
It's actually not that hard to get semi-decent in this game imo, and it shouldn't matter too much anyways, that's where all the fun of a succession game is in anyways
Oh, and the next guy on the list PM'd me saying that he'll probably be working on his turn tomorrow (since this was PM'd yesterday, that means he'll probably be working on it today).
Ok i think this went moderatly badly. I'm way to used to warmongering and im beggining to think i whip to much anyway:
Initial thoughts on loading the save were twofold:
OMGWTFBBQ we've got no workers. OMGWTFBBQ we've got no army.
↑ Illitration of my worries. A warrior defending the capitol, 2 workers in amongst acres of forest asking to be chopped and a settler building. So rough action plan for first turn:
Move the guy building a mine to make a farm. Seems more useful as we don't need the money to badly.
Change settler to worker. Settler gets built eventually but i queue a few more things till it gets built.
Whip pretty much everything. I even whip the capitol on the second turn, when i really shouldn't have.
Change worker building a cottage to a farm. This was a bit of a dick move and very silly as it turned out anyway.
Finally i get aggressive with the dogs we do have:
Resulting in the murder of barb warriors. Don't like the lack of roads up here, makes it annoying to defend.
Turns continue with me building workers and use them to chop all the forest to make more workers and a couple more dogs. Nothing screenshot worthy happens except the warrior to the south dying eventually but i didn't think a picture of the lack of him being there would be worthwhile.
Writing pops and i decide to go ironworking, there's a fair whack of jungle of around and alphabet doesn't seem useful considering there's only one other guy on the continent.
↑First barb axeman out and not as many dogs as i'd like. Still mound city has nothing worth pillaging so i can just camp the hill. Don't ask me why i'm building a worker in mound, i think i was just panic building them at the time.
Finally finish the settler and take the site to the south. Just looks like a cottage gold mine once it's up and running, so i take it now so it can support us while we settle the peninsula.
Build the road up north and have enough dogs to be able to protect my worker. I'd wanted that corn since i first layed eyes on it. Unfortunantly doesn't help poverty point much as i've whipped it so much i think it's happiness capped at 2 by this point.
Final shot and quite an apt one as it shows my three greatest follies: that worker in mound which has haunted me througout my turns, only just starting a library and finally not building any cottages. You may notice our tech rate of 30%, it'll jump back up when we start mining gold again next turn but it's still pretty bad. Anyway, save:
A good set of turns. I feel you might have overwhipped a little bit (if that's even possible) and I don't think we should have gotten any barrackses just yet. Getting early libraries are more important imo and our dog soldiers are amazing for fighting off barbs even without raxes due to their +100% vs melee bonus.
We're all set up now to let our cities grow and start pumping out military en mass. I think we should have poverty point focus 100% on science while building military though, since we really need to get some research going. 7 beakers per turn is a joke, but once our cities grow back up and the unhappiness from whipping wears off it should get a lot better. Having poverty point work 2 floodplains cottages and 2 scientists at size 4 is still something I think we should do to get out a quick great scientist to found an academy in Povert point (which looks to become our main science city. It takes 13 turns to get a great scientist as a philosophic leader on epic speed using 2 scientists, as far as I remember).
We have enough workers now, and also enough cities for the time being, so whoever is next should get us ready for war! (let's pray we have iron!)
Oh! And I would change production in Mesa Verde from a totem pole to a work boat. Making a work boat first makes it quicker to whip the totem pole and recover the population, and you'd probably end up building a work boat immidiatly after the pole anyway.
I finally got my comp at home fixed (still no internet though ) so I'll be able to play my turn right after deconduo. Also, I forgot who mentioned this, but are we going to wait for a vote/poll to decide if we should declare war? Or can we just go ahead and declare it whenever we feel like it?
Edit: Actually, voting is probably best. I guess to make it easy, whoever's turn it is can just make a post (without a poll) asking if everyone playing thinks we should declare war and then everyone can just make a simple yes/no post, and to avoid everyone waiting for a single person to vote, we'll keep the vote to a 24 hour limit, and I guess maybe even allow people to vote for a certain period of peace time. This way no one feels forced to start a vote every time another nation asks them to join in their war (which in my experience can start happening frequently in the later stages of the game and I'd rather not stall the game for a day every time that happens).
On January 16 2010 08:22 prOxi.Beater wrote: Oh! And I would change production in Mesa Verde from a totem pole to a work boat. Making a work boat first makes it quicker to whip the totem pole and recover the population, and you'd probably end up building a work boat immidiatly after the pole anyway.
Hmmm. Don't know about that. Both the totem pole and work boat whip on 2, so were only going to working one tile and pigs provide more food than clams, thus we'd be working them. Barely makes a difference but i'd still go totem first.
Agree with everything else you said though, to many racks and to much whipping. Really wasn't playing to well but it's so hard to get into a game half way through.
Think mound might a good sight for scientists as well as poverty, then use the south and its jungle for production in our war efforts perhaps (i vote war if we're voting )?
As a spectator of your succession game, I want to say that I like each player to play as he/she wants, without consulting the group. It is fun to watch the game go from one direction to another. It is like watching history where a country's ruler has his/her own style, with sometimes grave implications.
Watching the perfect game is interesting, watching a game run near the edge of defeat is exciting.
So I'm not quite up to the level as a lot of the people before me, but I did my best. Focused on two things mainly, army and cottage spam. You can never have too many cottages. So at the start, our research was fairly pitiful, 49 turns for iron working, but with the gold, it brightened up a bit.
Yay for gold.
Started chopping some more forest to speed up stuff and make room for more cottages. Built more cottages, built dog soldiers, built more cottages. Also, Mound City finally finished the worker so I could start a library in the hopes of claiming some of that territory back.
Mound City
Iron working finished researching. Yay. There is iron in the middle of our territory. Yay.
Its outside our borders. Aww.
Iron
Still, not to be too distracted by that, more cottages were built and more army was built. We see the start of a nicely sized stack of dog soldiers forming. I noticed Willem had a few chariots wandering around so I added 2 spearmen as well. Decided to go for construction on the research front so we can start getting cats.
Stack
Didn't really do too much interesting besides building cottages and an army, but a few things to note: Poverty point also has a great scientist on the way.
There's a barb city on the peninsula that we can possibly take:
And finally we have a decent stack ready to pillage and plunder Willem:
Dude, that barb city is perfectly consistent with that dot map I did earlier! That's a kickass city site so do definitely not raze it whenever it gets to that. Also, I'm really happy to see us get out that early great scientist, leveraging our philo trait.
I actually think that our army would be able to take a city or two already, even without the help of any catapults. My vote is for simply declaring war now, taking one or two cities, declare peace and then finish him off with cats, but the longer we keep massing the more of a steamroll it's probably going to be, provided that he doesn't get to longbows or war elephants or something like that, so really we could just as much wait.
How will we get that source of iron? our cultural borders will eventually be able to get it, the question just is whether they'll get it soon enough. We have another source of iron up to our north that could be settled as well, although it would be a pretty crappy city.
Awesome set of turns: our military is looking up, our research is somewhat back in business and we have excellent production. From what we can see of the Dutch land it looks like killer science land, so stabilizing our economy after the war really shouldn't be a problem at all. Just awesome
On January 16 2010 14:44 prOxi.Beater wrote: Dude, that barb city is perfectly consistent with that dot map I did earlier! That's a kickass city site so do definitely not raze it whenever it gets to that. Also, I'm really happy to see us get out that early great scientist, leveraging our philo trait.
I actually think that our army would be able to take a city or two already, even without the help of any catapults. My vote is for simply declaring war now, taking one or two cities, declare peace and then finish him off with cats, but the longer we keep massing the more of a steamroll it's probably going to be, provided that he doesn't get to longbows or war elephants or something like that, so really we could just as much wait.
How will we get that source of iron? our cultural borders will eventually be able to get it, the question just is whether they'll get it soon enough. We have another source of iron up to our north that could be settled as well, although it would be a pretty crappy city.
Awesome set of turns: our military is looking up, our research is somewhat back in business and we have excellent production. From what we can see of the Dutch land it looks like killer science land, so stabilizing our economy after the war really shouldn't be a problem at all. Just awesome
Glad to know I didn't fuck up. Also built a library in our capital so it will expand on the iron quicker (In ~30 turns I think.) That barb city popped up I think a turn or two before I finished so its kind of sweet.
I like your turn. I agree that we can never have too much cottage, you completed all libraries, and we are ready for war. I think we have enough to take a city or two already, and so we should do.
Awesome job. I'll get started on my turn as soon as I can. I'll try to have it up either by tomorrow or the next day. Definitely by Tuesday though (but hopefully sooner obviously )
Also, since there hasn't been any real discussion on this topic except for a few people commenting on it here and there, do you guys want to just let people do whatever they want for their turn? Or ask the group first? I can think of good reasons for both, so I'll just put it up to a poll.
Poll: Let players do whatever they want? (Vote): Yes, let them do whatever. (Vote): No, consult with the group on important decisions.
I'll guarantee though, that if you guys are for doing whatever, I'm declaring war on my very first turn
Yeah, going for the war seems like the best option, our tech is down a bit because of unit support, so at the very least it should free up some of that. Also there is some really sweet land there.
guys watch this youtube if you are a CIV4 fan, absolutely breathtaking is all i'll say
it's the fountains in front of the burj khalifa, set to the opening theme song form CIV4. (Baba Yetu). burj khalifa is the recently completed tallest building in the world. cost something like 80 mill
it's the fountains in front of the burj khalifa, set to the opening theme song form CIV4. (Baba Yetu). burj khalifa is the recently completed tallest building in the world. cost something like 80 mill
Prayer song for a building opening? Seems kinda odd. But looks amazing
By the way. If you would like to start another succ game I've got a nice initial (4000BC) save:
[url blocked]
Game version: BTS 3.19 Leader: Darius Speed: Marathon Difficulty: Prince (just about right for succ games it seems as it allows even less skilled players to participate)
I did play some of that and I can assure you that it can provide quite entertaining game with interesting outcomes (not gonna spoil anything).
On January 18 2010 03:59 Manit0u wrote: By the way. If you would like to start another succ game I've got a nice initial (4000BC) save:
[url blocked]
Game version: BTS 3.19 Leader: Darius Speed: Marathon Difficulty: Prince (just about right for succ games it seems as it allows even less skilled players to participate)
I did play some of that and I can assure you that it can provide quite entertaining game with interesting outcomes (not gonna spoil anything).
Posting new games during a thread can only distract people from the succession game. Why not volunteer to be on the list?
On January 18 2010 03:59 Manit0u wrote: By the way. If you would like to start another succ game I've got a nice initial (4000BC) save:
[url blocked]
Game version: BTS 3.19 Leader: Darius Speed: Marathon Difficulty: Prince (just about right for succ games it seems as it allows even less skilled players to participate)
I did play some of that and I can assure you that it can provide quite entertaining game with interesting outcomes (not gonna spoil anything).
Posting new games during a thread can only distract people from the succession game. Why not volunteer to be on the list?
Next time I will. Now I wouldn't like to jump in the middle of things. Posted it for future reference before I forget about it.
Well...this sucks. Got halfway through my game and my computer/harddrive crashed again =/
Dunno how long it'll take me this time to get it fixed so I'll just take myself off the list for now and move it onto the next guy. Really sorry about the delay
Okay, here's my report! I only played 11 turns, but a lot happened and it felt like a good stopping point. Hopefully whoever plays next knows what to do with our beleaguered economy
First thing I see when I load the save is that Cahokia isn't very happy with me. I decided not to whip the population down since they're already pissed from the last few whips and it wouldn't actually get rid of the unhappiness. They'll just have to stay that way for now.
Not being much of a diplomat, I declare war on the dutch!
An archer, an axeman, and two swordsmen later Amsterdam is ours! Turns out there's another city on the coast though, as Amsterdam is still drowning in orange culture.
Some barbarian axemen from the city on the peninsula decide to try to take advantage of most of our dog soldiers being on the other side of the country. I take the melee upgrade and send them packing.
I take enough city upgrades on my archer to make Amsterdam safe from everything until tanks, freeing up the rest of my stack to help capture The Hague.
two turns and thirty years later, it's ours! I debated sacking it, but it does have fish and flood plains, so I kept it.
And finally, our conquests resulted in a great general! As luck would have it, he's born in the furthest city possible from the conflict. Whoever takes over next will have to deal with that barbarian city below us, as well as deciding whether or not to press on to the dutch capital. I built several new cottages (we have way more than we can use!) since there wasn't much else to do with the workers, and as soon as Amsterdam grows we'll be able to whip the library.
After looking at my save and thinking about it a bit more, I think we should probably take a truce with the dutch and come back 20 or 30 turns later with catapults. Our economy needs some work and many of our cities are struggling with unhappiness. On top of that, we're about to get iron and a few swordsmen might be good to upgrade as archer killers.
I think you did ok (judging by reading this thread alone). What should be done now though is quick ending the war (capturing/razing the enemy capital and then proposing peace, perhaps even getting some techs for it) and switching the efforts from military to economy, giving nation the time to recover and consolidate new territories. The Dutch should be weakened by this enough to not be able to come back in any near future.
On January 19 2010 05:25 Manit0u wrote: I think you did ok (judging by reading this thread alone). What should be done now though is quick ending the war (capturing/razing the enemy capital and then proposing peace, perhaps even getting some techs for it) and switching the efforts from military to economy, giving nation the time to recover and consolidate new territories. The Dutch should be weakened by this enough to not be able to come back in any near future.
I don't think we can get anything from him at this point since we don't have alphabet yet. As soon as construction is done, we might want to go for currency or calendar for some more commerce. Speaking of calendar, someone built a cottage on top of some silk near Chaco Canyon. Since calendar is coming up soon, we need to switch from that tile (it's a hamlet now) to one of the cottages. We'll take a one commerce loss for ten turns, but since silk is +3 commerce and it'll pay off later. We also have more silk elsewhere so we'll be able to trade them to other civs once we meet a few more.
On January 18 2010 15:44 nttea wrote: ooh shiny!, i would like to play and i got lots of time right now so whenever you consider it appropriate! is the latest patch being used?
Added you to the list, you'll be right after duckett (who is now next)! and yes, I believe that we're using the latest patch.
Also, if anyone else wants to be added, now's the time! Because everyone who gets added will go at the end of the list, and after the last person has gone then I'll start the list back up from the top. So if you want to play soon, post here or PM me (although you might be better off posting so that if I don't check it in time, the other players will hopefully manage themselves well enough to allow the right person to go next) letting me know that you want in.
Oranje definitely has at least 2 more cities, the real question right now being: do we have enough troops to get those cities down before war weariness pulls our economy under? From what I'm seeing, the consensus seems to be a resounding "no", so we should pull our troops back and solidify our economy.
Since the Great General spawned so far away from our stack, I don't think we'll have healthy enough units to take down the rest of Oranje's cities. We should see what we can get out of him though.
Hey successioners, I think the reign of duckett went pretty smoothly.
I started the first few turns wanting to end the war with Willem, with Construction on the way and our economy floundering. I started by switching over a lot of production-focused cities to commerce/scientists and whipping a few libraries in the southern cities, which seemed decently large and begging for scientists. I also noticed that we had an unhappiness issue...and was confused since we had a religion. Then again, it's not spread in many of our cities and we don't have the tech for temples t.t. So I planned on trying to fix these problems and changed tech to alphabet bc a) I thought we had a lot of idle hammers that could be invested in science and b) I wanted tech from Willem...I mean we have him by the balls here.
Then I got some news from “our spiritual leaders:”
A quest to capture Jewish holy city Utrecht! Just classic really: crusade to the jewish holy city =)
This complicated things greatly. I switched some cities back to war production, including the capital, and started revving up for a push on Utrecht...After all, it wasn't just a vague “capture by this era” but a direct “capture before getting peace.” Balls!
So I brought over the great general and used him to get some more city raider promotions and set up a great general-guy, Subutai. I mustered all the stack I could from the area and set off for Utrecht, confident that I would not be raided but unsure of my chances of taking the city.
So at the gates, I had some issues. Willem had two freaking swords! And an archer. And an axe. It's a good thing I had a shitload of units, and attacked in the right way...1 dog soldier to soften the archer, then I can attack melee with dog soldiers which is a piece of cake, then I can clean up the chariot with a spear. Was pretty tight but I brought along a CG III archer (never had one of these before haha playing sitting bull is so strange) and it was all sealed up. Kindof a strange situation all around really bc I'm not used to axe rushing this late, and our dogs should be pretty poor axe rushers but the ai is too stupid to not spam archers...and the ai on prince doesn't get the crazy production bonuses that you see on higher levels that give them really intense armies. Oh well, I'll take the advantage where I can get it.
Got the quest rewards, and holy crap, they're pretty impressive. Had to choose between +seven cities of judaism or +4 dog soldiers. Took +seven cities (even though there might not be seven more nonjew cities on the continent) because we might not need 4 dogs to kill willem and I don't want to have to invest in org. religion or a monastary + missionaries. The quest reward “build a holy shrine” was grayed out, so I got a strong feeling that Willem had popped the great prophet and build the shrine for me. Good thing we took this city! Ended up giving something like +14 gold.
I wanted to end my 20 turns with some big marker so I mustered my forces again and set off to finish the dutch off.
Even with highly promoted units, it's really a bitch to take out archers on a hill, but thankfully there were only 2 so I could burn a lot of units on them.
Well, that's that. Dutch destroyed. Whoever picks up next better really focus on picking up our econ, because someone just discovered Taoism...granted, they probably just popped a great scientist at the right time but damn, that is pretty far ahead. Still, I don't think 59 research/turn at 400 ad is that bad for prince and I'm teching up to monarchy (through priesthood! yay temples)...after hereditary rule we can really cottage spam our hearts out and get things rocking. Also, the capital is about 6 turns from a great scientist pop. Finally, we need to figure out what to do with the whole being-alone-on-a-continent thing and get a navy...or at least a galley to kill that barbarian that killed our fishing boat >.>.
The World in 400 AD:
New Save[DL link is in the bottom right of the box]
yeah i was considering getting his techs for peace and then finishing him 10 turns later, but if he had legit techs they were not visible behind the polytheism and meditation that we didnt have...
oh well. he was researching construction, and didnt have alphabet, so i feel like he was around where we were in tech, except up some religious techs
Huh, reminds me a bit of a game I played today. You'll have to brace for a lot of crap that can happen.
Since I didn't play BTS before it was kinda new experience for me but that's what happened: I turned out to be the Incas (random ftw!), set up my capital on the coast (costed me one turn but there's nothing better than starting on a forresty hill by the coast with some juicy corn, cows and clam right next to it) and proceeded with exploration. Quite fast I discovered my 2 neighbours which turned out to be Oranje and Ghenghis, further exploration showed Oranje being on the opposite side of the small continent while Ghenghis at the bottom side. There was quite a lot of nice elephants, stone, marble and other stuff in the middle so I had to race Oranje for it (Ghenghis was further away). Popping 2 villages in a row provided me with xp + another warrior so without any hesitation I've sent my whooping 3 quechuas to rush Oranje, effectively killing him when he was still on 1 city (Amsterdam is mine!). But all this exciting stuff aside, that's what happened later on: I decided to side with G as he was nice to me and the continent was big enough for both of us (for now). Since everyone else was on a different continent I skipped military entirely (G loved me so there was no need for any) and went pure eco/tech. When I sent my caravel to scout out the other continents I've found 3 nations there that were still using galleys and were at least an era behind me (just like G, but I like him). It was then that I decided to win this by diplomacy, seeing as I had my sidekick with me and 3 other nations being in conflict I had to get one of them to work for me while I proceeded with my diplomatic tech. All of this went to pieces when the biggest guy on the other continent (Justinian) decided to take action against my new protege (just 1 point of influence from convincing him to turn to my religion which would seal the fate of the world) who decided it's best for him to become a vassal So did the other one which jumped the biggest guy on the other continent from being behind me in points to having almost twice as much. With diplomatic victory out of the picture, distance between continents being too big to do anything with military at this point I opted for cultural victory instead (damn it's hard on marathon). Everything going fine until they decide to eat me alive and G just sits there and techs hard to catch up with me instead of helping. Their first wave of attacks (3 nations attacking you from 2 sides is bad) is utter failure as their galleons don't really compare to my ironclads which are soon changed into destroyers. They manage to land some raiding forces near my capital but horse archers, grenadiers and cossacks aren't really any match for my rifles and machineguns...
Long story short: From this point on I had to wage permanent war, the biggest problem was the fact that while initially I did have a huge tech advantage they closed the gap pretty quickly (they picked military techs and made units while I had to go different route and build wonders) and it was hard turtling on my part. I did eventually get my 3 cities with legendary culture but at this point I was on the brink of extinction (my lands were being bombed, workers killed by roaming marines and my army was too small to safely move out of the cities, not to mention I lost my sea superiority when they started stacking 3 bships + 6 destroyers + 2 submarines + 2 carriers and stuff like that).
The moral of the story: Beware of the vasallage and go for the military win right from the start. Will save you a lot of trouble lategame.
Huh, reminds me a bit of a game I played today. You'll have to brace for a lot of crap that can happen.
Since I didn't play BTS before it was kinda new experience for me but that's what happened: I turned out to be the Incas (random ftw!), set up my capital on the coast (costed me one turn but there's nothing better than starting on a forresty hill by the coast with some juicy corn, cows and clam right next to it) and proceeded with exploration. Quite fast I discovered my 2 neighbours which turned out to be Oranje and Ghenghis, further exploration showed Oranje being on the opposite side of the small continent while Ghenghis at the bottom side. There was quite a lot of nice elephants, stone, marble and other stuff in the middle so I had to race Oranje for it (Ghenghis was further away). Popping 2 villages in a row provided me with xp + another warrior so without any hesitation I've sent my whooping 3 quechuas to rush Oranje, effectively killing him when he was still on 1 city (Amsterdam is mine!). But all this exciting stuff aside, that's what happened later on: I decided to side with G as he was nice to me and the continent was big enough for both of us (for now). Since everyone else was on a different continent I skipped military entirely (G loved me so there was no need for any) and went pure eco/tech. When I sent my caravel to scout out the other continents I've found 3 nations there that were still using galleys and were at least an era behind me (just like G, but I like him). It was then that I decided to win this by diplomacy, seeing as I had my sidekick with me and 3 other nations being in conflict I had to get one of them to work for me while I proceeded with my diplomatic tech. All of this went to pieces when the biggest guy on the other continent (Justinian) decided to take action against my new protege (just 1 point of influence from convincing him to turn to my religion which would seal the fate of the world) who decided it's best for him to become a vassal So did the other one which jumped the biggest guy on the other continent from being behind me in points to having almost twice as much. With diplomatic victory out of the picture, distance between continents being too big to do anything with military at this point I opted for cultural victory instead (damn it's hard on marathon). Everything going fine until they decide to eat me alive and G just sits there and techs hard to catch up with me instead of helping. Their first wave of attacks (3 nations attacking you from 2 sides is bad) is utter failure as their galleons don't really compare to my ironclads which are soon changed into destroyers. They manage to land some raiding forces near my capital but horse archers, grenadiers and cossacks aren't really any match for my rifles and machineguns...
Long story short: From this point on I had to wage permanent war, the biggest problem was the fact that while initially I did have a huge tech advantage they closed the gap pretty quickly (they picked military techs and made units while I had to go different route and build wonders) and it was hard turtling on my part. I did eventually get my 3 cities with legendary culture but at this point I was on the brink of extinction (my lands were being bombed, workers killed by roaming marines and my army was too small to safely move out of the cities, not to mention I lost my sea superiority when they started stacking 3 bships + 6 destroyers + 2 submarines + 2 carriers and stuff like that).
The moral of the story: Beware of the vasallage and go for the military win right from the start. Will save you a lot of trouble lategame.
imo your moral should be plan out your victory path. inca >.> are the cheap civ, and getting 2 capitals in warrior times should be enough of a head start to lead the game from there...you don't need to war too much with that big an advantage. also, it's not that hard to keep civs on pleased/friendly if the world is more or less in religious synchrony, and you won't be the most hated if its not unless you are a religionmongering crazy. just plan for the culture victory if you want it and go after it from the start, and play diplomacy to stop this shit from happening. only a couple hyperaggressives will screw you then...like monty, genghis (t.t bad ally for you), tokutoku will backstab you at friendly
Wow really nice, I didn't think we would be able to take out Willem that fast, but I guess that great general made all of the difference on that one.
Everything is looking good in the save, although a few things confuse me. First off, our capital is much more of a production city, and Poverty Point has an academy in it, so why are you not running scientists where you would have gotten a 50% bonus on them? It's too late to change now, but having poverty point focus on science and the capital on production would have been a lot better IMO. Secondly, you're producing archers in our two most newly conquered cities and running a priest specialist in Utrecht (the shrine city). I guess having the archers could make sense for when we get into monarchy, but I don't quite understand the priest. Thirdly, you didn't hook up our iron. Pretty manly, but I don't quite understand it (I'm assuming you didn't get control of the iron at Amsterdam until after you conquered Willem's last city).
All some minor points, I know. Everything is looking good in the broad picture. I say we use the great scientist from Cahokia to make an academy in utrecht to really get that shrine working for us, although we could just as well settle him into poverty point where he would get that sweet 50% bonus, and then switch the capital over to production and gear up for settling the southern peninsula. Once we have monarchy I vote for researching calendar for +2 happy faces in every city and some nice cash from working the plantations. At this point we really just need to focus on getting a lot of happiness to get those big, juicy cities going and then we can pretty much do whatever we want and still win the game. Personally I'd like to see us colonize some western powers to show them what's it's like being eradicated from your own lands!
Turn 200, 400 AD: Wow, i have some pretty big shoes to fill, succeeding Chief duckett. The great crusader, vanquisher of dutch and favored by the lord.
first thing i will do is to consult my advisors as to what is our current status, and what problems i will need to adress. Since there is no dutch left, i will have to find my glory someplace other than the battlefield.
Good news! as it turns out, we are doing great. our foreign advisor and, as rumour claims it a descendant from the great chief who founded the city of chaco canyon, thinks we are doing alright, in fact our foreign policy have been so grand that we don't have a single enemy!
foreign advisor report shows no enemies!
our foreign advisor humbly suggested that the reason everyone likes us so much is partly because of his own great policies, and that great men should be rewarded for their services to the country.
foreign policy aside, our research is in trouble a bit due to our high number of cities compared to our economy, in the following turns i will try to grow our cities and get happiness, to improve our economy.
turn 210, 550 AD: Letting some turns pass, i have adopted some new ideas regarding my station as ruler. Being a nation under god, it is important people realise that my right to rule is given by god himself, people are always a bit reluctant about new stuff at first but they will come around. My excellent advisors also claim that this will help me quell riots with my military forces, i don't really understand how that works but they havent let me down before! we are now a kingdom ruled by king nttea!
plans for the future is to continue to grow the cities and to tell my people to stop trading in logs, and to use these new shiny things made from metal. I believe it will make trade easier.
685 AD: The apostolic palace was built by some buddhists, we seem to be lagging behind a bit!
turn 220, 700 AD: i have become a king, and our research rate now runs without a deficit at 40%, instead of 20% as per 400AD, mainly because of the use of currency, promoting trade across our grand nation. militarily there hasn't been much to do, i have sent a scouting party south in hopes of finding other civilizations since it seems we have run out of those :p.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4263/interest1.jpg here's some expansion plans for the next ruler, these two food resources seem to be our best choices for expansions. Theres also the barbarians to the south, however i don't know when they will grow and it seems a waste to wipe them out rather than capture them.
would it have been ok if i played more than 20 turns? there's not much happening right now, but im happy with what i've done and i had fun :D
Huh, reminds me a bit of a game I played today. You'll have to brace for a lot of crap that can happen.
Since I didn't play BTS before it was kinda new experience for me but that's what happened: I turned out to be the Incas (random ftw!), set up my capital on the coast (costed me one turn but there's nothing better than starting on a forresty hill by the coast with some juicy corn, cows and clam right next to it) and proceeded with exploration. Quite fast I discovered my 2 neighbours which turned out to be Oranje and Ghenghis, further exploration showed Oranje being on the opposite side of the small continent while Ghenghis at the bottom side. There was quite a lot of nice elephants, stone, marble and other stuff in the middle so I had to race Oranje for it (Ghenghis was further away). Popping 2 villages in a row provided me with xp + another warrior so without any hesitation I've sent my whooping 3 quechuas to rush Oranje, effectively killing him when he was still on 1 city (Amsterdam is mine!). But all this exciting stuff aside, that's what happened later on: I decided to side with G as he was nice to me and the continent was big enough for both of us (for now). Since everyone else was on a different continent I skipped military entirely (G loved me so there was no need for any) and went pure eco/tech. When I sent my caravel to scout out the other continents I've found 3 nations there that were still using galleys and were at least an era behind me (just like G, but I like him). It was then that I decided to win this by diplomacy, seeing as I had my sidekick with me and 3 other nations being in conflict I had to get one of them to work for me while I proceeded with my diplomatic tech. All of this went to pieces when the biggest guy on the other continent (Justinian) decided to take action against my new protege (just 1 point of influence from convincing him to turn to my religion which would seal the fate of the world) who decided it's best for him to become a vassal So did the other one which jumped the biggest guy on the other continent from being behind me in points to having almost twice as much. With diplomatic victory out of the picture, distance between continents being too big to do anything with military at this point I opted for cultural victory instead (damn it's hard on marathon). Everything going fine until they decide to eat me alive and G just sits there and techs hard to catch up with me instead of helping. Their first wave of attacks (3 nations attacking you from 2 sides is bad) is utter failure as their galleons don't really compare to my ironclads which are soon changed into destroyers. They manage to land some raiding forces near my capital but horse archers, grenadiers and cossacks aren't really any match for my rifles and machineguns...
Long story short: From this point on I had to wage permanent war, the biggest problem was the fact that while initially I did have a huge tech advantage they closed the gap pretty quickly (they picked military techs and made units while I had to go different route and build wonders) and it was hard turtling on my part. I did eventually get my 3 cities with legendary culture but at this point I was on the brink of extinction (my lands were being bombed, workers killed by roaming marines and my army was too small to safely move out of the cities, not to mention I lost my sea superiority when they started stacking 3 bships + 6 destroyers + 2 submarines + 2 carriers and stuff like that).
The moral of the story: Beware of the vasallage and go for the military win right from the start. Will save you a lot of trouble lategame.
imo your moral should be plan out your victory path. inca >.> are the cheap civ, and getting 2 capitals in warrior times should be enough of a head start to lead the game from there...you don't need to war too much with that big an advantage. also, it's not that hard to keep civs on pleased/friendly if the world is more or less in religious synchrony, and you won't be the most hated if its not unless you are a religionmongering crazy. just plan for the culture victory if you want it and go after it from the start, and play diplomacy to stop this shit from happening. only a couple hyperaggressives will screw you then...like monty, genghis (t.t bad ally for you), tokutoku will backstab you at friendly
Well, the probelm was that Catherine started demanding some highest techs right off the bat = she won't like me as I'm not giving it to her. Justinian was fine until he started hating the mongols and I know he was more powerful than them but he was across the pond so I had to complicate relations with him. Rameses was pleased for a very very long time until byzantines didn't get to his ass. The biggest problem was the religion. I did send some missionaries right away, they didn't and didn't want to convert even if I got my precious buddhism in all of their cities
Looking at the save now, will write as I see things of interest:
I think we need to specialize our cities a little bit more than we currently are. Cahokia especially could benefit a lot from focusing on production instead of working a cottage, a farm and running a scientist. If you move around what tiles are worked you can increase the production from 15 to 25 hammers per turn.
I really think we should research calendar ASAP. We're currently researching compass which has no immediate benefit other than bringing us closer to optics. Calendar would give happiness and make poverty point a truly monster science city (Kinda funny how our main money city is called Poverty point).
Utrecht is still running a priest specialist. Why?
Amsterdam is a monster city, jesus christ. Flood plains, food bonuses and lots of hills (one even has iron). I don't know what to do with amsterdam, it would both make for an incredible science city and an amazing production city. I guess would should just let it work money tiles for now and then start working production tiles later as population allows it. I also just noticed that Amsterdam contains Stone Henge, which means sick archers in every city. Nice
Mound city is a really good science city.
Rotterdam is a bad city, but not much we can do about it, except let Amsterdam work all of its good tiles.
We're 2 turns from getting a great scientist in Mesa Verde. What should we do with it? We need to build a work boat at some point in that city as well.
We have 5 furs up north that I really hope has some seafood near it. We need to scout and fogbust the north to find good city spots (if any) and to prevent barbs with minimal effort.
Here's how I would settle the south once it comes to that. I don't think anything has changed since the last time I made a dot map for this.
hey thanks! imo, our capital should be the only mass production we need. Dual plaincows and minerals and stuff! (wow!) i disagree with going for calendar first, we need to get caravels asap and find other civilizations to trade with. we are fine with happiness as it is now with monarchy imo.
What speed do you play on? Your tech seems to be rather slow... I'm just playing a game myself and with just 3 cities (4 now) I'm almost done with philosophy, got pyramids, stonehenge, oracle and almost done with chitchen itza and it's barely 140 AD...
Its cause they had to fight a war and they have 7 cities, they have to work on them and it will be good soon. and the real question is why you getting chitchen itza lol
I played a few games at prince on normal and had the same opinion, but then I realized that they're playing on Marathon. I don't really have any experience playing Marathon, much less at prince.
On January 24 2010 03:15 Manit0u wrote: What speed do you play on? Your tech seems to be rather slow... I'm just playing a game myself and with just 3 cities (4 now) I'm almost done with philosophy, got pyramids, stonehenge, oracle and almost done with chitchen itza and it's barely 140 AD...
I think were playing on epic but that woudn't effect the date. We've expanded a fair bit and tech's hurting because we cottage spammed so much, but it should give us decent late tech. Also what difficulty are you playing on? That tends to be the major difference in games.
BTW Proxi, wouldn't it be better to place the haps! city one tile north?
I'm playing it on Prince/Marathon. Building Chitchen Itza (as well as a Dun in every city I have) because I'm literally surrounded by 4 civs and from experience I know that sooner or later they're not gonna like my tech/cultural lead (even as I write that they start to demand some free techs) so I'm preparing for the worst and racing to found all the religions I can, just so they won't convert too easily (already got hindu, christ and confu, close to tao and used GP to put effort into islam). Luckily for me the buddhist and judaism are on the other continent (and I do pray that there are 2 different guys who got it) so everyone around me is bound to go with me which buys me time.
BTW Proxi, wouldn't it be better to place the haps! city one tile north?
By overtaking the barb city we'll get no overlap with Mesa verde and we won't have to bother building a settler. That's my reasoning anyway. Moving the city north by one tile doesn't really change all that much IMO.
btw. Could you add me to the list of players (assuming you're playing it on BTS 3.19)? I see that you're running short in that department and I definitely could play a couple turns (especially now that's not much going around as I'm more of a builder than warmonger), maybe I'll do it when Mystlord posts his save after he's done. And I would stop derailing the thread with my own games ^_^
OK! Time for the rule of Mystlord the Rain Chief to begin.
Immediately the first problem I can see is that we didn't specialize everything, so now we have everything working everything. Let's remedy that...
Now we're ready to fix our economy. I had to make a tough choice for Amsterdam, but I settled on Commerce because it's already working villages, and also because there are no other good commerce locations, and we're definitely short on commerce. Two I couldn't figure out what to do with, so I just labeled them no idea for now.
Rotterdam I assigned to Production, just because it has some hills and a food resource. However, it's pretty much capped in terms of population, so whatever. I assigned Mesa Verde as our GP farm. It has 4(!) food resources and I'm certain we can snake a farm chain down there once Civil Service finishes. Our capital is in the "meh" territory, but I assigned it to production because of the kind of many hills, the plains, and the fact that a river snakes through it all which means food and perhaps watermills later on.
Interesting note: As I was picking through the cities... I found this.
The AI is just so =_=.
So the next turn, I look up and see that we're -8 Gold instead of -1 Gold. Looks like Amsterdam was actually celebrating We Love the Monarch (or whatever) Day. Great.
Next turn, I get a Great Scientist.
What to do with him... Well since after Compass is done, the next tech he'll want to give me is Aesthetics, tis time to march him straight to Amsterdam for an Academy.
Fast forward a few turns... And Compass finishes. I go straight for Calendar. We're hitting our happiness peak, we certainly aren't going to run a specialist economy (or I'd go for CoL), and our workers need something productive to do
Being the smart person that I am. I keep on forgetting to screenshot my tech advances... So I get Calendar, and immediately start working on Plantations. Next up is definitely Code of Laws. We really need those Courthouses.
In any case, a few more turns pass, and then the Hanging Gardens gets built by another civilization.
I decided to skip it because there's no way that I could finish it in time while trying to stabilize our economy. Oh yeah, to the next player: Don't forget that our capital is on Wealth as a temporary fix. We need Courthouses ASAP.
So once Code of Laws finishes, I'm going straight for Civil Service. I have three reasons for this: 1. I want Bureaucracy. 2. I want to farm up our GP City. 3. We might want to dual switch to Bureaucracy and Caste System. At this point, we're on our way to a Cottage Economy, and we can't afford to start losing population everywhere. I don't think the hammers given from Slavery will outweigh the commerce given from Cottages, especially in our current situation. It'll also enable our GP city to spawn millions of GP for us, and we'll finally find a use for Utrecht and Rotterdam. I'm also looking at Literature with a hungry eye since National Epic and the Great Library will be huge boons to us.
In any case, this is a choice that the next guy will have to make. If you do choose to go for my idea, be sure to use Slavery to whip out Courthouses. Oh, but let Utrecht finish its Market. Shrine + Market =
Please don't mind if I pick it up from here for a couple of turns. I should finish it shortly (don't have a whole lot to do today) so I won't clog up the waiting line
Edit: Ok, here it goes. Didn't have all that much to do. I started with micromanaging all of the cities to increase performance just a bit (went from +2 to +8gpt and shortened some construction times where necessary). Didn't whip anything as I saw that most cities were barely managing the happiness and saw that the next issue is going to be health. I've decided however to take decisive action against the barbarian city to the south as it has grown to size 3 already and there is some juicy iron behind it.
The initial forces gather...
Great success! The city has been captured, we suffered the loss of a warrior (lol) but two of our dogs got promoted in the process. Meanwhile, our brave galley dispatches 2 pirate ships at the southern coast of the continent.
The empire expands... An army of workers is already in position.
After Civil Service is done, I'm doing the Monotheism (just 2 turns) and switch our civics to Bureaucracy + Caste System + Organized religion. This sends our economy spiralling down but we should recover fairly quickly with increased productivity. I choose Metal Casting as the next step in the way to get some workshops tossed in among the cottages. Enemies complete The Statue of Zeus and The Parthenon.
New threat reveals itself in the north!
I move around some dogs to counter it before much damage can be done...
A new opportunity. I choose the 'good in the long run' option as the polls tell me that we are the wealthiest nation in the world anyway.
Moar research!!!
The threat to the north is dealt with but we lost a farm in the process (couldn't help it). Most of the courhouses/markets are finished, health becomes a pressing issue...
Green is not always good...
As you can see I didn't do all that much. What is to be done now is:
- desperately need more aqueducts (already started the work on some) - need to further improve economy (the +gpt in the pictures is only because I've set one of the cities to produce wealth - it couldn't produce any buildings at the time anyway, and we don't need army just yet) - don't forget to rebuild the farm (at the dog on the left in the last picture), forgot to bookmark it
Edit: And beware of some barbarian axemen roaming the southern reaches of the continent.
wow good to see cities have gotten so big since i played my turns...and economy looks a lot better than before. though i have gotten 550 science per turn by 1200 ad before
The problem is that cities got too big a bit too early. I could remedy that by whipping left and right but this would do no good. Either everything was like 2 turns from completion or too far from it to make whipping help and the unhappiness from that would drag on after us for quite a while. I've decided that being unhealthy for the time being is the lesser evil as it can be remedied easily with aqueducts (need to stop our cities from growing though).
I noticed the weird lack of granaries too when I was playing. However, since most of our cities apparently grew to max with whipping without granaries, I didn't see the need to build anymore because we're definitely past the whipping phase.
They could be a good fix for our health problem though. We don't necessarily need Aqueducts.
There is no debate or should not be a debate, you should have built or whipped them earlier. You would have reached size 10-12 faster even if you whipped to a smaller size first. If you ever plan on growing again, which you will once you trade for health resources, you want a granary, and don't count out whipping yet.
I don't want to impose too much with advice, but this is too big of a deal to ignore.
Oh damn. I just realized that I was talking about a different game that I was playing. I'm pretty sure ALL of our cities have granaries in this one. I think I whipped 1 or 2 during my turns, so we should be covered in that front. It's just aqueducts that we need now.
And with that, I firmly believe that Slavery isn't an option anymore.
On January 25 2010 18:14 Mystlord wrote: Oh damn. I just realized that I was talking about a different game that I was playing. I'm pretty sure ALL of our cities have granaries in this one. I think I whipped 1 or 2 during my turns, so we should be covered in that front. It's just aqueducts that we need now.
And with that, I firmly believe that Slavery isn't an option anymore.
way to confuse the hell outa me! by the way i went compass thinking we should go for optics to be able to start trading for resources, but i just now realised we will need astronomy for that. Early optics is still important for tech trading imo.
Alright, I just played my set of turns. It was pretty dull overall, us being alone in the world and all, but there were a few things to get excited about.
As I, Lord Beater The Magnificent, ascended the throne everything was at peace in the Native American Empire. I had three main targets that I wanted to achieve during my 20-ish set of turns:
1. Improve the infrastructure of the empire 2. Produce enough units to provide happiness in the cities and fight off any barbarian horde with ease, setting us up for settling the entire continent. 3. Research optics and get in contact with other civilizations.
The first thing I did was to change the production in Mound City and Poverty Point away from aqueducts and over to courthouses:
Yes, we need those aqueducts, but first we need to stabilize our economy and both cities had plenty of food anyway.
Next turn metal casting finishes and I decide to go straight for optics:
I also begin chain-farming down to Mesa Verde to get a lot of farms within that city's big fat cross. It's not that helpful at this point, but eventually it will be. Our workers are not very busy right now either so might as well get it done now.
With metal casting we get access to forges, and one is ordered up in Cahokia ASAP. I also begin building a road down south to make eventual settling go faster. A single axeman appeared down there to try and ruin the fun, but two dogsoldiers took care of that without any trouble. More interestingly, another barb city is discovered:
I would rather have a city 1E of where Cuman is placed, but it's still decently placed.
Time goes by without much happening. I build quite a lot of "useless" archers and dog soldiers to provide happiness and in The Hague and utrecht work is begun of triremes. These will be upgraded into caravels as soon as optics research
A few barbs, including a galley, keep trickling in from the north, but all they achieve is making me micromanage a little bit more.
Once a city has constructed courthouses production is immediately put toward constructing aqueducts. Once enough courthouses have been constructed I begin building the forbidden palace in Amsterdam, which will take 11 turns to finish.
The Moai Statues finish in rotterdam and construction of another forge is begun. Yes things were dull indeed.
When machinery is researched the age of dogsoldiers are ifficially over and we begin training macemen instead, which is definitely a good thing since those two little archers guarding Cuman just grew up:
Longbows on a city hill is nasty to break. Quite a few turns later I send down a few macemen and a swordman to try and break the city, and I succeed!
Razing the city wasn't somehing I intended at all so a settler is ordered up in Cahokia (which has stopped growing at pop 15 anyway) and a few units are sent fogbusting down south. At the same time I was exploring the north without finding anything, the north sucks:
As you have probably also noticed on those screenshots I decided to research engineering next. I don't know if this was a mistake or not, but I figured we might go for Notre Dame to get us some extra happiness. I also upgraded those two triremes built earlier to caravels which have been sent exploring, one going west and the other looping down south to go east. The caravels are desperately racing to find new land and civilizations before my reign ends, but by turn 278, 20 turns after I took over, they still haven't found anything. Letting my greed for glory get the better of me I decide to play on, as engineering is still 2 turns away from completion. In the year 1300 AD engineering finishes and.... SUCCESS!
Let me, Lord Beater The Magnificent, forever be remembered as the king who boldly went where no other Native American had ever went before, discovered a new civilization and ushered in a new era of exploration!
While my turns were quite dull and boring the next person in line should have a lot of fun exploring the new world, settling our continent and deal with the last few barbarians. Immediate concerns are: - What should we research next? (I chose paper as a place holder, you can change it all you want) - What trades should we make with Zara, if any? - How quickly should we settle the south? - Should we try to build Notre Dame? (I know that Islam has been founded in 1260AD, so the AIs are probably quite advanced)
oh this is getting exciting! good work with the writeup, for some reason notre dame is like the only wonder i _NEVER_ manage to get in any of my games, for some reason the computers always beat me to it. It's a very powerful wonder to have though so i think we should go for it, getting money for a failed wonder at this stage of our game should be fine, unless we want to go for that paper tech wonder instead? i forgot what it's called but it gives +2 research for every religious building off our state religion (temples and monasteries)
We're only alone because we eliminated our only neighbour . It's never good being all alone since you end up being a lot behind in tech, but on the other hand it's great to have a lot of land to settle at a comfortable pace, so there are both ups- and downsides to being isolated.
Looking at the map (and the scores), the rest of the AIs are probably all sharing the same island. As long as we have a couple techs that each of them don't, we can probably catch up technologically with a little bit of trading. Being of a different religion will complicate things, but it's not like that can be avoided.
Do we have the Jewish holy building built yet? I can't remember. It might be worth our while to ship some missionaries over there to make sure at least one of them doesn't hate us. Then again, whoever we manage to convert might just get promptly vassalized by his pagan neighbors. We could probably just focus on economy/science and cruise our way to a space race victory, but that wouldn't be very interesting... Building a dozen ICBMs to precede a massive invasion is much more my style ;D
On January 26 2010 02:01 Biochemist wrote: Looking at the map (and the scores), the rest of the AIs are probably all sharing the same island. As long as we have a couple techs that each of them don't, we can probably catch up technologically with a little bit of trading. Being of a different religion will complicate things, but it's not like that can be avoided.
Do we have the Jewish holy building built yet? I can't remember. It might be worth our while to ship some missionaries over there to make sure at least one of them doesn't hate us. Then again, whoever we manage to convert might just get promptly vassalized by his pagan neighbors. We could probably just focus on economy/science and cruise our way to a space race victory, but that wouldn't be very interesting... Building a dozen ICBMs to precede a massive invasion is much more my style ;D
Yes we have the Jewish Shrine built.
Looking at the screenshots, it's hard to determine exactly where we are tech wise compared to the rest of the civs considering that we have two dead end techs that don't reveal too much. However, they seem to have Civil Service at least, which is definitely troubling. We'll have to see...
I'm in favor of building Notre Dame rather than the University of Sankore because we have more cities that would benefit from higher happiness than we do with religious buildings. Besides, we don't have any monasteries do we?
Hey everyone, sorry bout taking soo long, my turn ended up falling on a national holiday and then all this crap happened and I couldn’t get a chance to do this. I’m also slightly out of the loop as I haven’t been keeping up with this thread as much as I should have, but anyways here we go.
SO, first thing I do is set our capital to build Notre dame. This is a great wonder, and with it requiring only 10 moves to complete, we might as well make a run at it, if we fail, the gold can just be used to pump into research anyway.
The next few moves are pretty boring, I hunt a few barbarians, start building some roads and cottages, and explore a bit of the water with our boats.
Until…..
We meet this dude… and the prick is ahead of us in score
Then we get a challenge that I forgot to take a screenshot of. Some gladiator has been killing stuff and has earned a reputation, so we get a choice of 26 insta-gold for cashing in on his success, or 13 insta-gold and +2 culture for the city per turn for rigging his fights and matching up against sissies. I figure 13 gold is worth bugger all, the culture may become handy later with all the culture bonuses you get, so might as well go culture just in case.
Next on the list to be discovered, Hannibal… yay
So turn 284 and we have discovered paper, meaning we can trade maps, meaning it’s about time we get a good view of this world.
70 gold is worth the intel, so I pay up.
Next on the list…
Then lucky us, we are the first to circumnavigate the world. This is awesome as naval is definitely going to be a big part of this game later on.
Turn 285 and mansa munsa beats us to Notre damn by 4 moves… Asshole
Victoria
Here was an interesting decision. On the one hand, we can get theology, but to do so, we have to give up optics. I end up saying no because theology is a pretty worthless tech while optics is a big bonus to this guy.
Turn 295, and the discovery of the printing press pushes us into the renaissance era. Printing press is a great tech because we have lots of villages and towns, so our research should benefit from a big boom.
So Turn 301, I finish up my turn with the knowledge that we are pathetic… yay.
Apart from discovering the rest of the world, not a whole lot really happened in my turn. I settled about 4 new cities and discovered paper and the printing press. I’ve gone for astronomy next as its time we get a good naval force going. With the circumnavigation bonus, we will be great at intercepting anything that comes our way and will be faster at re-enforcing when the eventual invasion of the other continent occurs. War will occur also, as the AI are pretty pissed off at me for not bowing to their demands of techs and stuff, but we are in a good position to take out this game comfortably.
Damn, if only we would be on the bigger continent instead of the small one... I lost a game not long ago because I was on a smaller one and aiming for a space race, suddenly the biggest guy on the other continent declares war on everyone there, wins and gets a domination victory
On January 30 2010 16:34 Manit0u wrote: Damn, if only we would be on the bigger continent instead of the small one... I lost a game not long ago because I was on a smaller one and aiming for a space race, suddenly the biggest guy on the other continent declares war on everyone there, wins and gets a domination victory
really? that's unusual. I don't think I've ever seen an AI get a domination victory. Although, admittedly i usually give up if it seems like I'm hopelessly behind.
Well, it was a first time for me too. Came as a rather unpleasant and frustrating surprise when I was like 5 turns away from launching my ship And I wasn't all that much behind seeing as I had my mechanized infantry to counter any cavalry they sent at me (was so lol when shaka declared war on me and tried to go with caravels vs destroyers and cavalry against my mech infantry).
Losing Notre Dame is sad indeed. I really think we need to make some trades to catch up in tech. Elisabeth is willing to make a pretty good deal for almost all of her techs for one of ours.
They're only going to hate us more as time goes on (religious difference), we should really make whatever tech trades we have to to catch up, even if it involves giving them all optics etc. They'll get it before long anyway, and giving them all optics (one tech for each of them) will get us quite a few techs and save us many many turns of research. Next, we have a larger land mass and with a continued focus on economy should be able to cruise into a significant lead.
The only thing that will be able to stand up to us after that will be if one of them vassalizes the others... and if that happens we can just beat them to ICBMs.
Or we could just opt for a space race. Although I don't think it's possible to get the necessary tech lead at this stage (a bit too late to beeline important stuff).
Just be careful when tech trading that you are actually trading for something that is worth trading for. Some techs are a lot better than others and some techs are a waste of time unless you want to go for a culture victory or something. If you just trade stuff because you dont have it, you end up giving the computer an advantage by giving away a strong tech for weak ones
On February 07 2010 12:57 craz3d wrote: Why not go for space race or cultural?
From this point, cultural would be extremely difficult. You have to commit to it early in the game to get the right techs and wonders. Space is possible, but it would be pretty long and boring as avoiding war is very easy when the computer is soo far away from us.
Can't help it but I think there's maybe 5 of us left still interested in this... And yeah, skip him. And anyone else who fails to do his thing within 3 day span imo.
Ok, looks like the majority want to skip him. So it is done
New list is List of Players prOxi.Beater Fen Thratur noddyz deconduo Biochemist duckett nttea Mystlord Manit0u
Which means Thratur is up.
However I agree with you Manit0u that chances are not everyone is still interested. Therefore, Can those who are still interested in playing please post in this thread to acknowledge that they are still around. If it comes to your turn and you haven't posted by your turn or in 3 days (whichever comes last) you will be dropped automatically.
On February 07 2010 17:50 Manit0u wrote: Still interested. No objections.
I'll play very soon.
EDIT : I completed my 20 turns. Was kind of fun. I mainly just grew our new cities, founded 3 new cities (they are not perfect cities, but they are going to be decent) with a fourth one coming later. I also removed a lot of the fog but didn't touch a barbarian city because we don't have the tech to make units decent enough to take that city. I'm not happy of my play, even though I now win some monarch games, I feel like I made tons of mistakes.
I start by checking how good are our relations with the people on the other continent. They are bad. And they like each other. I can't do anything about this since we don't have their religion, but they are not going to attack us for now.
Shortly after, a war is declared there. I don't want to get involved or pick a side for now. If they can all go into a huge world war, that would be good for us.
We got astronomy. I see that liberalism is soon to be done by Zara Yaqob, so I don't try to rush that. Anyway, we are far behind for that. I made the mistake of going for Scientific method. It's a mistake because they will all have it when I finish researching it, so we can't trade it for something useful. Since Victoria is researching printing press, I decided to give it to her for education and some other junk I could gather from the others leaders.
I skip a lot of turns because I didn't do anything interesting except founding cities and refusing to give away some good techs.
This guy is dangerous.
I want to found a city on the small island which would be kinda useless because of no production but would give a lot of cash with a good growth because of the food resource there (if we manage to build a lighthouse first). Now that I think of it it may be a bad choice because of the maintenance and the time it would take for the lighthouse to come, but it will be up to my successor to decide this. Our galley should win no problem against that barbarian galley once it's healed.
This is one of the three cities I founded. It will make decent commerce, but nothing spectacular, just like the other 2 cities. They will at least cover up the maintenance cost and make some research.
Awesome. My turn end here (well, on next turn, but nothing happen really). We get 343 beakers at 50% against 319 beakers at 60% when I started. That's good in my opinion, because we were at a huge deficit when I started my turn and even though it increased a bit, it's not that much for three new cities and our commerce should get better soon.
To finish this post, I will leave you with some beautiful pictures of our domination :
We can see 7 new cities that need to grow. We will be much more powerful once this is done.
They look small individually compared to our great Empire!
Yeah, sorry about this everyone (again ). I should've been on top of this situation a bit more, glad to see you guys got through it either way.
Anyways, I removed fatmatt from the list since I guess he's inactive. When I PM'd him he said he wasn't keeping up with the game much, but that he'd play his turn...which I guess didn't happen for whatever reason.
17 cities??? We're definitely over expanding. There cannot be enough good land on our little continent to sustain so many cities. Well, I suppose we'll just have to rely on our cottages to take the brunt of our economy.
On February 07 2010 12:57 craz3d wrote: Why not go for space race or cultural?
From this point, cultural would be extremely difficult. You have to commit to it early in the game to get the right techs and wonders. Space is possible, but it would be pretty long and boring as avoiding war is very easy when the computer is soo far away from us.
I think its down to whether you have a city with a lot of food. Build National Epic+Globe Theatre, go Cast System and run like 10 artists.
Also it seems you guys have a shitload of cottages so you can also get a lot of culture if you put up the slider to 100%.
With that being said here are the significant problems to my plan:
1) No Rifling 2) No Nationilism 3) No Steel
So here's what i actually end up doing:
1) Camping 2) Tech Trading 3) Hitting enter allot
It's an action packed set of turns.
Anyway, right of the bat i start pimping out astronomy for whatever i can get:
This annoys Victoria as apparently trading with someone she's at war with is worse that actually being at war. We are now her worst enemy:
I continue my tech trading shenangins anyway:
Meanwhile i'm trying to micromanage to pretend im doing something useful with my turns and notice our civics. My hand lingered on slaverly for a long, long time. Lots of new cities + happy capped cities is just ripe for whipping. The lack of food (i've never seen this many cottages ever) and the fact that im planning a large civic switch later prevents me though.
Moar techtrading:
You many have noticed the limited amount of leaders i'm trading with. This is not for lack of trying, everybody just hates us. I think i can remedy this to a degree later though.
Change physics to democracy on the grounds i want to.
I have trading fever by this point and decide to shop around for resources. Get this and dye from Vicky after she'd calmed down a bit.
CONFLICT!!1
Seriously boat warfare is the only fighting we get in 20 turns so enjoy it. We lose btw.
I take the island settler all the way up to the top so we can trap some fur. There's still a fair amount of decent land we could settle on out island. Enough for a couple of okish cities anyway.
Send a galleon to give advance warning if Justian decides to invade. He has allot of frigates which is slightly worrying.
Enter. Enter. Enter. Enter.
Yay democracy pops. Screenshot time:
Time to tech trade again. Really tempted to get chemistry here but plump for liberalism instead. Were about to mass civic switch so it makes sence to get it now and minimize anarchy.
Switch goes ahead. Slightly odd choice to go nationhood over free speech but were teching to riflemen now and we're going to need to draft them when it hits.
Zara's only a couple of turn from democracy so we only get crap from him.
LAALAALA Enter. LAALAAL Enter. LALAALa OMGWTFBBQ.
I think i may have picked the wrong horse to get freindly with.
Not the end of the world, but time to keep a closer eye on vicky. Everyone else now likes us because we have no state religion, so she's our only real worry.
Enter Enter Enter etc.
20 turns over and things look like this:
Im happyish but really wish someone would leave me a nice stack of units for one of my turns. Oh well maybe next time.
This game looks pretty easy from here, you can do whatever victory condition you desire. I cringe at going Nationalism before you actually start drafting, because Free Speech is overwhelming with all those floodplain towns (wow). And if you were really concerned with the anarchy, get a GP and start a golden age. Oxford is going in an excellent spot, great job conquering your continent.
I wouldn't have traded Democracy away so quickly myself; Statue of Liberty is monstrous given all those cities. To each his own, I guess...
I see a few ways to go about this that don't go boring for several turnsets (i.e. straightforward but boring space/culture): 1) Build a peaceful tech lead by going to Free Speech + Free Market + Custom Houses and enjoy +8 commerce and up overseas trade routes. Then get navy with marines and nuke everyone to bits. Requires Fission + Rocketry {+ Combustion given those Frigates) + Uranium (which you will have, I'm sure). Going through flight rather than artillery for Rocketry makes some sense too. And go to radio for Christo Redentor to end the anarchy forever. 2) Build the espionage buildings to add to your +25% espionage from Nationalism while going to rifles. Convert from pure research to pure espionage after requisite techs. Go for Mercantilism until you can get State Property. Get a stack of Galleons+Ship of the Line+Frigates loaded with Rifles/Calvary and SPIES. Use your spies to get revolts in inland cities after using the navy to establish a beachhead (and to steal techs since you don't have much going on specialist-wise).
Before you start warring, I suggest a city goes on the small 1-tile island at the southern tip of your continent for your own overseas trade routes. Then go rule the world!
Nationhood instead of free speech was taken on account of some on the fly adding up. 500 beakers per turn x2 for the turns spent in anarchy means free speech would have to give a 1000 beaker bouns in the 15 (16?) turns it would take to tech to rifling. Considering we had allot of villages that hadn't even popped yet i was of the opinion free speech wasn't going to give 63 beakers a turn. Add 2 turns lost production and nationhood seemed the all round better choice.
Golden age was out of the question. 2 GP when the first is nowhere near done means their not going to come in time, especially with caste gone (That city's a very bad farm btw). I'd also much rather found acadamies with GS at this stage.
As for democracy both Zara and Justinian were a few turn away from completing it themselves, thus the trade. Although in truth i'd have probably traded anyway as i obviously wanted universal sufferage as fast as possible and thus needed liberalism to make a efficient civic switch.
Had a pretty boring few turns, and I ended pretty early, mainly due to time issues.
Like noddyz, most of the time I was simply pressing enter, with only one vaguely interesting thing happening:
In the end I decided the +1 relations was better, just because we might be able to trade for some nice techs. Also a great spy. Ugh.
When rifling researched, I started to draft in all the cities that had spare happiness, got quite a few out which was nice. Brought our galleons back and started making a few trebuchets as well. I went to research steel, and the plan was to upgrade them when that hit.
Got a nice sized stack set up, 3 cannons as well but probably not enough navy unfortunately. I moved them to the right side of our continent as I'm sure the plan is to take out victoria.
The world at the end of my turns. Just the ocean between us and domination.
Well, thankfully my inactivity this week hasn't caused too many stalls. Anyways, I knocked you guys (duckett and Biochemist) down to the end of the list. If that's still too soon, then I can just cross you guys off entirely for this round, and you can take your turn when the list restarts from the top again.
Ah shoot. This completely slipped my mind. Played my turns. Unfortunately, not much to report. We certainly aren't ready for war - not with the meager amount of troops we have... I'll explain more in my post:
So first of all, explaining why we're ill prepared for war. We neither have the infrastructure nor the troops. Sure we have all these cottages, and that's good. But we're missing a crucial ingredient in what I consider to be a good war strategy: Espionage. We have micro managed it at all, so we sat at 600 espionage for everyone at the beginning of my turns. Not good. So I switched most of our espionage over to Vicky to see what's going on. Spies can be added right before we go to war so we can save some artillery turns. I've also had most of our major cities finish Jails or Security Bureaus (or whatever they're called), because we'll need the war weariness reduction and we'll need the espionage points. So that's cleared up.
Something to note:
This didn't occur to me before, but with Vicky already pissed at us, it might be possible to get her to declare war on us. Maybe.
We got a Great Scientist!
Put in Mound City. So many cottages there...
And this was... Not a set back
Anyway, random pictures aside, some more stuff that I remember from the game...
I settled the 1 square island down there. It'll be a good trading post. It has one square on the mainland, which I'm using to put a workshop so it has some hammers. Economic wise, we're in good shape. Enough cottages grew during my turns that we are now running 70% research with a ~+30 surplus. Research wise, we're in awesome shape. I ended my turns right as Industrialism finished, which means we now have access to Infantry. Considering that I don't think Vicky even has Rifles yet (she mentioned something about Knights), we should set research to 0 right now for a few turns to build up funds, start making Cannons (we're a bit short IIRC) mass upgrade our Rifles to Infantry, draft a round of infantry, buy some Galleons on our Eastern ports with the leftover cash, and rush Vicky, or at least hit her before she gets Rifling. We have enough espionage to know her tech, which is at Military Science right now. That'll get her basically nothing to hold her off. Start sending Galleons over, and the instant we see Rifling, we hit her hard.
That's my plan at least. Oh, and in terms of tech path, I'm opting for a rush to Flight. That'll allow us to get reinforcements to the other continent ridiculously fast.
This is looking good I think. We're soon going to overthrow Justinian in points because of our massive empire and good management. I think we should stick with a space race victory, but attacking Victoria can still be fun.
On February 18 2010 14:54 Thratur wrote: This is looking good I think. We're soon going to overthrow Justinian in points because of our massive empire and good management. I think we should stick with a space race victory, but attacking Victoria can still be fun.
Are we trying to win this game or entertain people?
On February 18 2010 14:54 Thratur wrote: This is looking good I think. We're soon going to overthrow Justinian in points because of our massive empire and good management. I think we should stick with a space race victory, but attacking Victoria can still be fun.
Are we trying to win this game or entertain people?
We're definitely trying to win, but certain people, such as myself, simply have this uncontrolable bloodlust that has to be satisfied. I demand war, an empire worthy of Team Liquid and preferably complete world domination!
Pound Vicky and England! Taking out the one in third place would be good. Be sure to shore up your diplomatic relations with everyone else on that island before you try anything though.
Espionage is of course good. Attack!! At get yourself a foot hold on the other island.
Biochemist and duckett both moved down the queue? I didn't expect that... I'm afraid you'll have to cross me out this time (which will probably mean that it's proxi.beater's turn now) as I have exam session at univ (not to mention my wife getting into a hospital) and it all leaves me mentally too exhausted to do anything good in Civ at least until the end of this weak. Sorry guys.
On February 25 2010 00:17 prOxi.Beater wrote: I don't have classes until monday, so I'll probably wait for at least a day before I decide to do anything.
Alright cool. Biochemist just told me that he's skipping, so I'm just waiting for duckett's answer.
On February 26 2010 12:25 Thratur wrote: A lot of people are skipping. It's insane.
Seems like a bad time for everyone. I have a crapload on my head irl now: wife in the hospital, exam session at university, 2 papers for monday, work, work, work, etc.
So it seems a lot of people will be skipping a few rounds, so I was wondering, you guys want to post-pone this for like a week or two? Or just keep playing with however few people will be able to make it?
Poll: Postpone or keep playing? (Vote): Postpone for a week (Vote): Postpone for two weeks (Vote): Keep playing with however many people we have
If we do the latter, then could you guys just all let me know if you'll continue playing or if you want to be dropped off the list (I'll add you back in whenever you tell me to), so we don't have to keep pausing to check if you guys think you can make it or not?
Also, just a quick note to all the lurkers reading this thread, if you want to join, you can still join. There was never a deadline for this, I have no problem adding people in whenever.
On March 04 2010 00:52 narri wrote: I guess I'll toss my hat into the Civilization ring then. Just tell me where I am in the roster.
Alright added you in. Beater hasn't posted yet so I'm not sure if he's still working on his turn, or if he hasn't started yet. If he hasn't started then you can go before him, if he has, then you'll have to wait until the list makes it's way back down again.
Also duckett, I took you off. If you want to be added back in at a later time though, feel free to ask.
So when I said that I didn't have anything to do until monday I didn't exactly factor in the possibility of me getting piss drunk every day. Hell, I even got 2nd in a beer drinking contest. I'll be playing my turn RIGHT NOW!
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For far too long silence had been over the American Continent, with their only other ever competitor, The netherlands, long gone the Native American people had been without another foe for centuries, but that was all going to change soon enough!
The very first thing I saw when I loaded up the game was this:
Not bad! But we can do a lot better, and we would have to do a lot better if we were ever to make much more than a small push on our enemy of choice, England. England is a big nation, and she even has a vassal in the Malinese, but while Mansa Musa is always very technologically advanced he never makes very many troops, so having to deal with him is hardly a complication.
The second thing that crossed my eye was that we had begun building cottages around mesa verde, thereby cutting off a lot of the irrigation. As you can see we have a few 2food farms in the city now. That's bad.
After moving a few units into our borders that wasn't fogbusting to minimize upkeep costs I hit enter (I left everything building as it was in the cities, I think) and Carthage drops by to propose a deal:
I turn him down since I don't want to risk him trading steel to England so that we will have to face cannons once we decide to invade.
Next Ethiopia comes begging for techs
My ass. Rejecting him doesn't change our relations.
As you can see in this picture I set our ressearch slider to 0%. What you can't see is me highlighting the upgrade cost of all those riflemen into infantry. It costs about 3400 minerals and will take us around 3 turns to accumulate. I've also begun producing cannons all across the empire, with a few galleons thrown in there for good measure.
In 1756 a vote is held to determine the religious leader of the world. It's nothing to worry about
In 1760 Carthage asks us to break relations with England:
Sure, why don't we kill them while we're at it? I also trade Replaceable parts to Divine Right, world map and 140 gold. Both are pretty bad techs at this point and getting the map could be handy in our coming invasion of England.
In 1762 I finally feel ready to get the war plans going. Here's our initial strike force:
I'll be producing units like crazy as well as conscripting a bunch while the boats make their way across the world, so that they will be able to pick up another mighty force once they return
This is my initial plan of attack. The small force is being loaded into two straggler boats and consists of two cannons and 4 infantry. They might not be enough to take on Oxford on their own, but I can always boat over a few infantry from the main attack squad, which I have no doubt will be able to Coventry without too much trouble. In 1768 our boats reach the English shore and war is declared.
Hello easy target!
Next turn Mansa Musa reminds me that I'm an idiot as I forgot to leave any warships at home. That harrassment ended up costing us 2 fishing boats and a lot of time:
Next turn Coventry falls with the loss of a single cannon. It has a couthouse and a jail in it, which is nice for reducing maintenance costs and war penalties:
Our small straggler force was easily able to take out Oxford which was only guarded by 2 logbows. Oxford has a courthouse and jail in it aswell, which is super awesome. I also run into our first english unit stack. If this is a sign of things to come we're in for an extremely easy invasion!
While in the process of poinding England we get a nice little random event:
This could mean that we would be able to sneak in an extra city up there to get ahold of those ressources. Also notice I'm completely ignoring Gaul, because of how bad that city is. Sooner or later we need to take it, but for now it would just be a waste of effort and money.
By attacking Coventry first and then moving inland to Warwick we'll be cutting off England's supply of Iron and horses, which is nice but not necessary. On my march towards Warwick I finally run into a English army that's actually not a complete walk over:
I decide to fight the army right then and there, which might slow down our attack on Warwick but I felt that taking down their main army would be priority number one. Here's the result of the ensuing battle:
I didn't have enough units there to finish it off, but I severely crippled it without losing a single infantry so it was probably worth it. I lost all but two cannons in the attack which might mean that we won't be able to take Warwick straight away, but I have a bucketload of cannons coming over so it will fall eventually. Next turn I moved my stack closer to Warwick anyway, and was delighted to see it defended only by 4 garbage units. I took it the turn after that without a single loss, abusing the sheer strength of infantry.
More courthouses and jails. Sweet.
So if not to Warwick, where did that big army retreat to? Don't ask me how or why, but this is where I found it:
Elisabeth doesn't have an open borders agreement with hannibal so I have no idea how those units ended up there. Either it's a stack from an earlier attack (that looks alot like the one I just demolished) or also it simply teleported up there. I had vision of the town earlier and didn't notice the army there. Despite the army not having any way of leaving the city I still shift a few troops over into Oxford. You never know where that army will teleport to next.
In 1874 I spot another (the same?) English army outside of Warwick. I send the newly shipped over army to meet it in the field:
And that's where I left off. The army from the mainland consists almost purely of cannons, so you may want to not really engage the English army, but that'll be up to you. The next city target should be London, since its culture is absolutely choking everything. We also receive a Great General, which I sent to Cahokia for us to settle as a specialist. The decision is up to the next person though. Research wise we have finished Physics and railroads and are running the science slider at 70% with a -30 mineral deficit, we still have around 1000 mins left from the 0% days. Combustion will finish in 4 turns. I didn't touch the technology path during my turn since I figured there was a plan with what we were researching. Whoever takes over is going to have a lot of really FUN fighting to do against England.
Bump and some more small tidbits to keep in mind for the next person.
I've largely stopped military production and have begun producing infastructure since it seems to me like England is all but defeated anyway. She has two large stacks but the units are so terrible that they would struggle just to take out 4 infantry.
Somehow I managed to lose our only medic unit, so everything is regenerating painfully slow. I'm an idiot.
I meant to use espionage in my invasion, but i completely forgot about that until hours after I did my writeup. lol..
I didn't conscript too much, and I don't think we should do it any longer either. We have happiness issues aswell, so we might want to consider doing some civic changes.
At first, we finish combustion before anything else happens
Then all these cities get crushed : (beware, 6 useless images) + Show Spoiler +
Meanwhile, I make peace with that guy
Flight finishes, even though a bit too late for that war.
This city could bring a lot of cash if we help it a little. I accelerate its lighthouse and I think we should do the same for granary, harbor, bank, etc.
The English got another hidden city. My successor will have to decide if he wants to take it or not. I wouldn't, except if you want to attack the Malinese and their 5 cities.
I built a lot of infrastructure in developing cities and military units in developed cities. In the end I got a bunch of military units that I did not move to the new continent because I was already winning that war. Someone who would like to attack the Malinese could take these units (about 10 units, not sure though) and make more if they want. I went for biology because I just love that tech. I automatized workers because I had no idea what to do with them. My successor should decide if he hates it or not. I forgot to select priorities on cities to help the workers make the right decisions. Maybe we could bring a bunch of these on the new continent because it is kind of low on workers right now. My successor will have a lot of fun building his new 99% English settlement, I guess. Being a peacemonger myself, I would have preferred that part, but war is still fun.
I guess it depends how good of a player you are. I had absolutely no idea what to do with them. I remember watching some videos on youtube called "Let's play Civilization IV" (kind of a Civ 4 version of Day[9], he made 5 full games and put them on youtube) and the guy automated while playing on immortal, but he explained how to properly automate workers. Anyway, I am only a noob monarch player and we are winning this game for sure, but you are free to deautomate them if you want.
Oh wow, I forgot about this. I thought it just died a while back.
And it looks like you guys waited for me as well sorry.
As for this game, I personally thinks its over, its kinda been over for quite a while as well. Securing that entire continent has left us with such a large advantage over the computer that it really is a matter of builing an army and steamrolling them. That combined with the fact that we are on continents and the computer sucks at naval warfare means that we really cannot lose from here unless someone lets justin reach space or something.
I would like start another one of these games up if anyone is interested. With a few new rules to make sure it doesnt stagnate and a few different map settings to allow for a more exciting game. I'll wait for this game to be over if you guys want, or I could just start a thread now.
Either way, Ill take a turn now, seeing as im bored and at home with no car thanks to a hailstorm.
Civ Ok, so here we go. Right now, I think our goal is to finish this game. We have the advantage, and all we have to do is push forward with it. Airports will be very useful here to utilise the production power of our main continent to reinforce the new continent.
As we can see, we have two targets. The Justin Alliance, or Hannibal. Seeing as we have only just got a foothold on the new continent, I figure Hannibal is the safer option. The Justin Alliance might be strong enough to do some serious damage if we attack too soon. As for Victoria, she is no longer a threat, so theres no point hunting her down. If the opportunity arises to take her last cities, then I will do so, however right now building a stronghold on this continent will be the primary objective. As for tech, I will be moving towards increasing our military might as much as possible
Turn 421 and Biology is completed. At this stage of the game, with our sprawling empire, state property should help us out a lot. It turns out Justin has communism also, but to get it off him, I’ll have to give up flight. I reluctantly agree to this as flight is a really strong tech. But I’m assuming he is going for it anyway.
I start researching artillery and convert to State property
Turn 425 - Realising theres a hole in culture of mansa munsa, I figure Ill charge in and take this city to alleviate the culture pressure on Awdaghost.
Turn 427 - The city is mine
Turn 430 – With artillery done, I upgrade as many cannons as we can afford. Now is the time to turn our efforts to Hannibal. With troops being flown in each turn, we will be ready to push very soon.
Turn 435 – Electricity is complete. My army is almost assembled ready to push onward into Hannibal’s territory
Turn 439 – I attack Nottingham, In 1 turn I reduce it from a formidable defence to a handful of wounded without any loss of units.
Turn 440 – Nottingham is taken, and my turn comes to an end. It is up to the next person to continue the war north and remove Hannibal. From there we can then invade the Justin Alliance and take the domination victory.
And ret, if you get this game, I could play a few (a few being a lot) games with you and teach you the basics. Or you can go on Youtube and watch TheMeInTeam's most recent games. He's a very very very good player commentating some games. Here's the link to the first video of his last game : http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMelnTeam#p/u/12/1SoMQ9mtvYE
if you're using Communism and Nationhood for war, watermills should be the best idea since they pay off immediately for the war. The +1 food is huge for growth to afford those drafts. Towns aren't getting the free speech +2 gold bonus that makes them so good.
Hopefully there isn't too much war weariness especially since it seems like you'll be fighting and fighting a war soon. That'll put a dent into your draft plans.
Alright, here we go. My goal is to plain finish the game so that we can get a new one started. Civ4 lategame isn't very interesting in my opinion since you've almost always either lost or won already once you get to the modern age.
The plan is to wipe out carthage and then england, vassalizing either if they agree to it, then research radio, train a ton of bombers and prepare for an epic showdown with justinian and zara. I'll completely ignore mansa musa since he's one of the easiest civs to get to vassalize and one of the worst civs at waging war. I might revolt out of nationhood at some point when I don't feel like drafting is worth it anymore, but other than that I think we're all set as far as civics go. Wish me (us) luck!
First thing I notice is that we have a bunch of infantry sitting around on our main continent for no apparent reason. I load a couple of them onto galleons and start shipping them over, while the rest get to sit around a little longer until I can airlift them over. Second thing I notice is that England is willing to capitulate. I take it since that means a nice little stack that I don't have to deal with. Thirdly, we still haven't touched Gaul up there to the north, which I find pretty funny. I'm just going to leave it for now.
England surrenders to the colonial master of the Native American Empire. They had it coming!
I keep our stack moving into carthaginian territory without letting it regenerate. It almost isn't hurt and our army is both bigger and better than Carthage can muster. I also make this little trade with the Mali:
Both Justinian and Zara has the tech anyway.
Hippo's defenses are puny and quickly fall
I also have a stack building up in Oxford getting ready to march on Carthage, meaning we will have two big stacks converging on the city. The English sent their entire army towards Carthage aswell, but it got completely destroyed. Utica is also constantly undergoing revolts due to Carthage's choking culture, so it might even flip to Hannibal if I don't relieve the cultural pressure soon enough. I know capitals can culture flip, but I'm not sure how fast it can happen.
Just as the 2nd stack is about to march on Carthage Utica flips, eliminating England from the game. I cried a single ceremoniall tear.
In 1859 an annoying little surprise comes our way:
We've been so slow to settle the north that Zara managed to sail over and found a city on our continent. He even captured Gaul. This is of course annoying since we'll be at war with him very soon, but that's all it is: annoying.
Thycudides is apparently a modern historian who is capable at looking at a simple map. Also, you can see my two stacks standing at the gates of Carthage (Utica was a pushover). We also discover radio, which enables us to build bombers. Next technology on the agenda will be rocketry, for the eventual ICBMs. I really feel like we have all the techs we'll ever need in order to get a domination victory, ICBMs will simply be icing on the cake, or radiation in the streets, or whatever.
In 1861 Carthage falls:
Leptis follows soon after and Hannibal realises what's up and capitulates.
With Carthage under our control there is now only the Justinian Axis left for us to conquer, and it's not going to go down without a fight. At the end of the Carthaginian war our army was definitely not up to the task. Justinian had superior troops, probably more of them and air superiority. We were simply not ready. Luckily Justinian kind of likes us so we have plenty of time to build up enough troops. In this build up phase only very few things happened: I built a lot of tanks, artilery and bombers, I constructed airports in several cities to either help airlift troops or contain more bombers, I drafted a bit and I researched some technologies that all did very little except bring us closer to ICBMs. Almost all of our cities suffer from unhappiness, illness or both. I don't care. I'll show you my main battle plan as it looked at the beginning of the massing phase:
It's a little hard to see due to the brown color, but basically use two main stacks and do a liniar progression through Byzantian territory while simply holding against Mansa Musa and Zara Yaqob. Justinian's main stack is located in thesalonicum, meaning that the top stack is going to be a lot bigger than the lower one to account for this aswell as the capital.
I hit enter a lot and in 1866 we get a great engineer. I use him to start a golden age, increasing productivity and I change away from nationhood and into vassalage.
I keep hitting enter. Djenne keeps having Malinese riots while carthage and leptis keep having Carthaginian riots. I don't care. In 1881 a great spy is born
I send him to a Byzantian city to gain a lot of fast espionage points.
In 1883 I finally had enough of pressing enter and decide to declre war. These are the two main armies facing each other:
It's really nice for us that Justin's main army is located in a city directly adjecent to our borders since this doesn't allow him to use any of his artilery on us. First I bombed down the city defences to 0% using my artilery, then I suicided the rest into the city, then I bombed it with the 12 or so bombers that were in range of the city and then finally I mopped up using tanks and infantry. I lost a few bombers, I lost quite a lot of artilery and even a tank or two but overall the attack was an astounding success that left Justinian's army crippled with most of ours intact. We also got the city, of course.
Our bottom stack is a little more puny than I'd like so that attack is postponded until I feel comfortable with it. Also, since we've now officially entered the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny I decide to bring Hannibal into the modern agesHe won't be trading anything away at this point.
On a more interesting note, the turn after my successful attack on Philippopolis both Mansa Musa and Zara Yaqob renounce the protection of Justinian and revert back to being independent states. This makes Justinian look a little less frightening, although both Zara and Mansa still refuse to accept peace right away.
In 1885 Djenne is overtaken by Zara. Another ceremonial tear is shed.
There also some minor clashes taking place in the north of our continent. They're not interesting but they're actually quite evenly fought since I hardly give a shit about those towns.
I finally start moving in on Nicomedia with my lower stack. As you can see it's a lot smaller than the top stack but unlike the top stack I'm making sure it's being constantly reinforced, so it should even out over time. Nicomedia falls with minor losses. After recuperating a couple of turns the top stack is once again moving and preparing to attack Thessalonica.
I take some losses but the city falls. Every battle is becoming more and more of a pushover at this point.
In 1888 Mali agrees to smoke our peace pipe. This is nice since I now have to worry a lot less about the southern front. (Mansa Musa never sent a single unit, apart from sea units, inside my borders. Zara can still walk through Mali territory to attack me.) Djenne also flipped to Mali control, finally.
In 1892 our main stack reaches the doorstep of Constantinople
Our lower stack has also made good progress, taking a bunch of cities and after Constantinople falls Justinian finally throws in the towell and capitulates:
From world leader to vassal state in a little more than a decade. Tough shit.
Zara has been attacking Nicomedia during the last couple of turns, but I barely held on to the city and now units are flooding in from all over Byzantian territory to reinforce the city and do an epic counter attack
That's going to be up to someone else to get that done. I'm sick of modern warfare. I'll leave you with a few pictures to create a little overview of the situation:
I don't know how many turns that was but it felt like a lot. This game is all but over and whoever goes next should just finish the job. You can probably overrun Zara without even stopping to heal up. I never touched (almost) the workers since I'm lazy. The Manhattan project is 6 turns away. We control a lot of wonders and shrines and it doesn't even matter. I built a small navy which lasted for a while, but at this point almost our entire coast has been raided by enemy vessels, which I don't care about.
I've just played the final turns of this game! It was a complete steamroll. At the beginning, I check how much land % we need before winning :
I see that we got 59% of the land. Only 5 more % and we win. Should be an easy task. I proceed to take another city (Yeha)
Our good old vassal wants us to trade some techs. I don't care and ecology can still be an useful tech, so I accept.
I then take Debre
Manhattan project is now complete and I can launch my first nuke! Kind of small because I took the wrong one but whatever
More nuke!
And a much better nuke! (Sorry, I screwed up all my screenshots starting from here...)
I won on the other turn :
Hurray! The glorious Native Americans just destroyed everyone in 2010. We completely dominated this game. This was definitely fun, and I am willing to play a new one with you guys.
Oh LOL, if I had known that we were only missing 5% land I probably would have finished the game myself . The victory screen was probably the only screen that I forgot to check before calling it quits. I'm glad you got to do a little bit nuking, showing those Ethiopians who's boss!
Im glad this game is over, as it was getting very stale. Having an entire continent to ourselves made this game way too easy. As well as the difficulty level being a bit low by the looks of things.
Im going to start a new thread with a new game so we can get this going again. I'll add some new rules to prevent the game getting stale so sign up if your interested in playing.
EPT
) and for what it's worth, noble is the highest difficulty I can beat consistantly.
When they're superior to you in army strength, demand some tech for a truce - you agree because they're gonna stomp you otherwise. Using the truce they bring a shitton of units within your borders, demand some more tech, launch a surprise attack on you, take a city, steal some tech and cash, force another truce...
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in all cities temporarily and a 20% chance to -1 population, but a 35% chance to gain a (+) for the rest of the game![[image loading]](http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5220/civ2.jpg)
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