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Avarice costs 750 each, two Avarice is 1500 which I'd have spent on a Catalyst, or a Zeal, depending on the flow of the game and what's most likely to kill me. Because I'm ganking I'm usually firing on cooldown because of teammate stuns/snares as well ;p It's why I can get away with having level 1 frost arrow for a pretty long time depending on what my friends pick (I almost always play with a friend who's a monster Blitzcrank. We joke, if he misses I arrow, if I miss he hooks). Playstyle and team makeup ftw~ and we've already gone over point 4 like a billion times.
BR simply lets me focus on survivability and still output pretty good damage, and by controlling the map I'm generally able to help finish games "earlier" by forcing the other team to be underleveled/lose jungle/die. I don't even often get BR "that fast," my build order the past four games (including two with Flicky and friends) has generally been Stone -> Greaves -> Razor -> Zeal -> BR, and I output more than enough damage while being able to competently chase and kill.
... but it's playstyle (I'm feeling like Allen Iverson now). I ended all four games (all wins) with about 150 total creep kills, which is a far cry from my 300-400 creep kill days like 15 pages back in this thread  Ended up with only like 3-5 kills per game but over 15 assists per game. Not really the type of Ashe you usually see, but I'm pretty confident I held up my end of the stick.
She's flexible :p Even if she's kinda boring. A lot of times I end up laning against Twitch and bashing them out of the lane, so if they start ganking other lanes and my teammates are placing down wards to stop him, then I just go into pushing mode to be a fake Sivir :p
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Hmmm. What are everyone's preferred builds for mage characters?
My main is Morgana, and while I *think* I have a good build for her, my results vary. Some games I'm an unstoppable killing machine, scoring 10+ kills, never dying, and getting countless assists. Sometimes I get mauled so bad I want to alt-f4 life. Sometimes I get so powerful late game that I get ganked by 3 players and end up killing all but one who runs away crying. And then sometimes I get killed before the creeps spawn and I want to die in a fire.
ANYWAY: I'm going to post my general runes/masteries and such. Advice and criticism is much appreciated!
Runes:
Red: All Magic Penetration. I'm lvl 23 at present, so I've got about 7 magic penetration so far from my red runes alone. Should I go nuts with this?
Yellow: These used to all be cooldown reduction, since Morgana is totally useless when her abilities are on cooldown. Now I have a mix of +health/level and cooldown reduction. It seems that once I max my level, my mastery builds will let me max out cooldown reduction with items and I won't need any cooldown runes. Thoughts?
Blue: Right now they are all AP/level and +flat mana. I find that late game I do not need more mana, as I have several thousand already and plenty of regen. But extra mana early on is very helpful for farming in the first few minutes of the game.
Purples: +flat health. Yes in the long run health/level is better, but in my opinion having 32 extra health right off the bat is a lot nicer than having 40 extra health at the end of the game. Dying early on is such a pain in the ass
Masteries: 9 in attack, (to get the magic penetration thingy), and rest in utility, (aiming to get the upgrades to clairvoyance, cooldown reduction, and summoner cooldown reduction)
Items in game: I usually pick up an ability tomb and a mana pot right off the bat. Soon as I'm able I upgrade the book to the lucky pick, (extra gold from the start), and grab a chalice of harmony. Next I grab sorcerer boots so I have roughly -27 enemy magic res. Next I go for a soul shroud, to get cooldown reduction, health, and mana regen. After that I work on upgrading to the deathfire staff of whatever it is. Morgana with all of her deadly abilities PLUS another nuke skill is hilariously powerful. This puts me at almost maxed cooldowns, and the extra utility points will top it off. If the game continues going on, I usually grab a staff of ages, and then extra items depending on what I need against my opponents. If the game continues even longer, I start replacing old items with awesome stuff.
My problem is this: While my abilities are on cooldown, I'm pretty useless. Until I get decent AP, I'm not great at ganks. I can farm perfectly well early on, but I'm not that useful in team fights until my cooldowns are maxed and my abilities are spammable.
Do you guys think I'm going about this the right way? I used to have a different build, namely mana crystal -> tears of goddess -> archangels, mercury treads, soulshroud, etc, but I find my current build nicer for farming more gold. The only bummer is that I have mana issues right at the start of the game.
How might I improve my build? I'm getting really good with Morgana, and I've pretty much developed a 6th sense about when/how enemy champions are going to turn around or dodge or move, and I can hit almost anyone with dark binding. I fear that what's holding me back right now is that I might be doing really stupid build choices.
All thoughts/input is much appreciated! Thanks!!
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England2662 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:50 Haemonculus wrote:
Items in game: I usually pick up an ability tomb and a mana pot right off the bat. Soon as I'm able I upgrade the book to the lucky pick, (extra gold from the start), and grab a chalice of harmony. Next I grab sorcerer boots so I have roughly -27 enemy magic res. Next I go for a soul shroud, to get cooldown reduction, health, and mana regen. After that I work on upgrading to the deathfire staff of whatever it is. Morgana with all of her deadly abilities PLUS another nuke skill is hilariously powerful. This puts me at almost maxed cooldowns, and the extra utility points will top it off. If the game continues going on, I usually grab a staff of ages, and then extra items depending on what I need against my opponents. If the game continues even longer, I start replacing old items with awesome stuff.
I always thought Catalyst was Morgana's key item. Get one first and then get a rod of ages. I have no idea what else, but Catalyst is an amazing item.
Something like:
Sapphire Crystal, 2 health pots
Catalyst
merc Treads
Rod of Ages
Aegis or a Banshee's Veil I suppose.
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When I play Morgana I open Tears into Soul Shroud, then Frozen. Being able to cast all her spells as often as possible is pretty big IMO, especially the magic shield. With max cd her shield recharges in like 7.93 seconds or something, while it lasts 8. HP Runes + Shroud = enough HP to keep you standing.
At least, the way I play her >_>
But I play her full support, so screw me.
Edit: O hay you used to use the same build I did. Awesomesauce. Ignore me.
I use different item builds for different casters against different opponents and how opponents build against me ;/
With Annie if I'm solo mid I open Deathfire Guise into Catalyst, if I'm laned I do the opposite direction. With Veigar/Anivia I open Catalyst into Catalyst/Tears. With Zilean I open Tears into Glacial. After that I change up items (Merc for anti-snare/stun/MR, or Sorc if I'm gonna max out damage, or Mobility/Swiftness if I'm playing support), like if I'm going damage and they're countering with MR I'll make a Void Staff, I'll finish the items I began (Tears -> Arch, Catalyst -> Rod) etc.
Edit2:
To answer your other concern, Morgana isn't really a nuker per se; her spells don't do that much damage as the game goes on, so trying to turn her into a nuker is like carving down a square peg to become a round peg. If you're way ahead you can kill people and go on a roll like that, but you're usually not gonna have that happen. Usually you just turn into a stun/shield bot that can also push a lane really well, and also provide a decent amount of area control with your puddle of goo. Don't fret if you're not getting kills :p
And yeah, she's useless when on CD, and there's nothing you can do about it until you max CD except try to make sure every single spell you cast counts. Nothing more you can do about it :D
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I feel like soul shroud and frozen heart are a waste of item slots on Morgana--someone else on the team should have both of them and you're so much better with a rod. Rod is THE item for anyone who scales well with AP. I have my runes stacked out to AP, so I usually open mekai's pendant + 2 health pots or a mana manip if I have a lane partner like soraka, but usually I go for catalyst first if I have to go back to fountain and rod first if I don't. If I get catalyst, my next item is basic boots or merc's treads/ninja tabi if I'm having trouble, then another catalyst, then rod to whatever I need. Usually what I need is another rod, but sometimes a void staff or banshee's veil helps too =P.
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Oh does anyone have a good build with rammus? I want to try stacking sunfire capes because it seems so fun, but I'm not sure what to take early. Doran's shield + health pot is looking good right now.
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Having more Bindings/Shields > Stronger Bindings/Shield. Other people on your team CAN get Shroud/Heart but they're great items for Morgana, too, so why delegate, unless your team is that stacked on support heroes (at which point with Morgana you're probably rendering their Soul Shroud useless on you because you kinda NEED that max CD all the time anyways...)?
Edit:
I suck at Rammus T-T I promise to never touch him, ever again. Soooo baaaad. I'm so bad at support heroes...
Edit 2:
Haemonculus:
One of the things I was thinking about is, 6% cooldown with utility tree and 3% cooldown from offense tree = 9%. If you can get 6% cooldown from runes then you'd have 15% and be able to cap out at 40% CD with just Frozen Heart, letting you forego Soul Shroud altogether. Or you could just go Deathfire/Haunting and Shroud and forego Frozen, or something like that. Worth pondering, maybe? ;p
Sorry everyone! was bored at work and I like reading opinions (and being devil's advocate) to learn stuff. I wouldn't have ever used Catalyst until I read you guys hyping it up a long while ago <3 And I stole Jax/Yi/Anivia/Veigar builds from you guys, too. Not just being a stubborn ass, just sounding like one :D
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Well, that's the thing, Soul Shroud is an aura and you're only worried about your CDs during teamfights anyway. Basically your role in a teamfight is to shield your carry, snare one person, AoE a couple, ult for as much as possible, and shield on the retreat or for the kill/tower. You shouldn't be worried about the second shots because that means you're on the chase anyway, and morgana really isn't a chase character, although snare is an epic chase finisher.
I can see the argument for CD reduction, but I feel like those items belong on a true support character like soraka.
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There're plenty of teamfights that last longer than that, like at towers, or late-game when there're tanks surviving DPS etc. Also great for keeping people alive - lots of runs take like 10+ seconds. Natural CD on Bind/Shield are 15/15, lowered to like 13.5/13.5 with level 29 mastery setup, but lowering them to 8/8 is pretty wicked. It's like Blitzcrank with his 21 second cd for hook - yeah, you'll probably only land one hook in a fight anyways (and one afterward to chase), but it doesn't hurt to have faster CD, because there're plenty of times where you go "omg you MISSED try again!" Obviously you're (probably) never gonna go CD items with Blitz, but it'd be awesome if you had CD runes or something. In the case of Morgana, once you bind, shield, AoE, and ult, you're absolutely useless until your stuff CDs. And having a slightly stronger bind/shield/AoE/ult really isn't gonna change much, because you'll do like 600 instead of 450 with your binding (oooo) do like 60 damage instead of 40 with your pool (ooooh) etc. Much better to land two Binds, or at least give yourself the opportunity to land two, than to have one mildly stronger one. Also CDs are useful everywhere, including 1v1 for escapes/ganks, faster pool for farming/pushing, etc.
Soul Shroud's an aura but more importantly it 1) gives hp 2) gives mana regen 3) gives CD. The only reason why many people recommend getting both Shroud and Glacial/Frozen is because you want to max out CD asap, and the 15+25 = cap. But that obviously doesn't take into account Mastery CD, where you get 6 for being level 20 and 3 for being level 29 (if you go that way), which is why I brought up the whole "you can skip one of those items if you get a rune, or you can live with 35% with just Frozen) sort of shenanigan  The aura-helping-your-teammates part is just cherry on top - it's why you usually opt for SS instead of Glacial first, although if you're going to play more CD asap + selfish then you're actually better off running Glacial first for the extra 5%. That's IMO anyways :p If you can easily tack on CD with other items it's your prerogative, but there aren't really that many great CD items, and if you can help your teammates as you do it, why not?
Especially if Haemonculus is opting for Deathfire and its 10%, then at level 29 you'd get 19% just off of that, which means you could feasibly skip everything and just make Glacial for 39%, maybe get that last 1% from Runes and voila, get HP/AP to your heart's content. All I'm saying :D As it is I believe Haemonculus is sitting on 6 + 10 = 16, so + 25 (Frozen Heart) = capped at 40; you could skip Shroud, unless you need the mana regen from Shroud or you want to play like a true teammate ()
Edit:
Also she kinda is forced to be a chase character if alive, because her ult = you're in the thick of as many as possible, and that also means if they try to flee post ult you're pretty close and capable of throwing another Bind on at least one - you just have to make sure you're chasing the one that's fleeing and not being killed after your ult. Bind -> 1 second to move in -> Ult -> follow for 3 seconds -> ult strikes, stunning for... 2 seconds? -> only 2 seconds until next bind. She won't chase chase but she's certainly capable of snagging someone who's trying to flee out of the team fight.
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Definitely good points, I think it comes down more to playstyle--I just don't like capping out my CD reduction because I love to kill golems :D.
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Yeah if you can keep golem buff running (maybe with the mastery?) you could probably feasibly run with only Deathfire and maintain capped CD or something with minimal downtime. Interesting interesting!
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United States37500 Posts
Morgana:
Catalyst, Boots, Catalyst, Upgrade one to Rod of Ages, Merc Treads, depending on how your team is doing... winning, build a 2nd Rod. If your team is behind, 2nd Catalyst into Banshee. 3rd item, another Rod or Guardian Angel.
Max soil first, use it for farming purposes. Shield next, Bind last. Starting point into Bind.
Black Shield has two team fight uses: Shield your carry, let them tear champions up without fear of being CC'ed. Second, Shield yourself and run into the fray as an initiator and use your ulti to Shackle a 4-5 of the other team. Run in the direction of their carry, it's most important their carry dies before yours. The more HP you have, the better you can initiate with your ulti.
Rammus:
Doran Shield, Boots, Aegis
From here, depends on the other team's composition:
Strong physical: Finish Tabi, get a Sunfire or two.
Strong magic: Banshee, Guardian Angel.
From there, more HP stacking in the form of Sunfire and/or Warmog's.
Powerball with first point. Max Powerball or Taunt first. I personally prefer Taunt first.
If another tank is getting Aegis first, get GA after boots.
Learn to Taunt melee champions that get close to your tower, possibly easiest first blood you can score.
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LoL wins game of the year award from GameSpy! Yippie!
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Really? That's surprising.
To be honest the game needs a lot of work for a released game. :\
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I've never played this before, but I am an experienced dota player. Marimokkori is my account name
Would love to play with some of you and get adivce
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Add SpudBoy i'll play with you on my smurf if you see me online, matchmaking kinda fucks you over if you queue with a wide ELO range.
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United States37500 Posts
Die Singed, die!
oh wait, he's running away...
oh noes, I'm slowed!
fuuuuuu Singed.
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It's so goddamn fun when I am allowed to snowball enough and the other team won't even try engaging me anymore when they see me pushing a lane =)
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add me to the list!
Dave[8] ~ Garathmir
I'm a newbie, but definetly loving playing Jax, he's a lot harder to play than you'd think
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Man I used to play Morgana all the time until the Mercury treads bug. Basically anyone with mercury treads is immune to her ult because it ends it early, meaning it never reaches the required time to stun--and EVERYONE will go mercury treads against a Morgana.
Still, when I play her soul shroud/ frozen heart is the way to go, I never pick her to try and fill a magic damage role (if you want a magic damage stunner, CM is generally a better choice).
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EPT
