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He's strong because he has Kat's ult in a one-shot skill, that also acts as a chaser, he essentially has Rammus' DBC, he's really hard to gank, and his ult gives him Kat's passive. So if your team can lock them in place and cut down ppl he's hit, his skills will recharge so he can spam Alpha Strike, like literally spam it, and because of the way Alpha moves him once he starts spamming Alpha and cutting down your team he'll wipe your team out REALLY fast.
Which is why I mentioned (I was thinking about how you'd set it up with Turkey last night) the stuff about Amumu/Veigar (locking in place + spiking one guy down to trigger at least an assist for highlander CD).
Essentially he's like Kat, except if Kat's ult had a 10 second cd and if an assist knocked down cd by 5 seconds. One Alpha after another.
Edit:
It kinda goes back to, you have to build around him, and it's really frustrating getting people to play stuff they're not used to, to accommodate one hero, OP or not. It's why very few people actually abuse Jax, even though everyone cries and moans about him.
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people just wanna play their favorite champion... *shrug*
no matter how many times I quit Pantheon cause he sucks, I keep coming back.
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So, I finally bought Shen, and played a couple games with him.
I hate him ><
Compared to Alistar, Shen feels like he's completely useless offensively, completely incapable of initiating against entrenched enemies (heim turrets / teemo mushrooms), and the only thing in his favor seems to be shielding an ally with his ult, which sometimes saved them, other times my ally was burst down through the shield anyway, and in other cases I jumped in to save an ally from two enemies and immediately after three others champions turn around the corner and turn both of us into pulp.
I guess his playstyle just doesn't fit me.
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His burst damage is one of the top in the game early on (via Vorpal + Ki) and Feint makes him pretty much unkillable. He's got the same problem as Alistar in terms of attacking into entrenched enemies (because he can get snared) but he's a real bitch to kill. His ult gives him map control as he can push one lane and then come screaming into a fight.
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On May 25 2010 03:40 Southlight wrote:
His burst damage is one of the top in the game early on (via Vorpal + Ki) and Feint makes him pretty much unkillable. He's got the same problem as Alistar in terms of attacking into entrenched enemies (because he can get snared) but he's a real bitch to kill. His ult gives him map control as he can push one lane and then come screaming into a fight.
As to his burst damage- I could harass enemies some with that combo, but with Alistar, I usually get kills in the early game when I'm with a ranged DPS and I pulverize + headbutt an enemy. Shen's damage seems kind of underwhelming by comparison :/
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Comparing shen with alistar hahahaa.
Shen: more mobility, less tanking but he can cc enemies to attack him.
Alistar, always a good initiator, less mobile. Best tanking ultimate in the game.
you cant seriously compare vorpal KI with BLOWNUPINTHEAIRSTOMP SHEEN PROCC AUTOATTACK punt, death. ;/ meeh i do love Alistar but the metagame has sorta killed him in therms of how valuable an asset to the team he is. Id say Malphite plays slightly similar without the need of flash and sliightly better, and earlier sustained farming abilities. Malphite is more fragile though and harder to play.
Out of the two Malphite simply, ROCKS where Alistar stops shining.
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On May 25 2010 03:46 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 03:40 Southlight wrote:
His burst damage is one of the top in the game early on (via Vorpal + Ki) and Feint makes him pretty much unkillable. He's got the same problem as Alistar in terms of attacking into entrenched enemies (because he can get snared) but he's a real bitch to kill. His ult gives him map control as he can push one lane and then come screaming into a fight. As to his burst damage- I could harass enemies some with that combo, but with Alistar, I usually get kills in the early game when I'm with a ranged DPS and I pulverize + headbutt an enemy. Shen's damage seems kind of underwhelming by comparison :/
as someone who mained alistar for ages and has now moved on to shen i have to say, alistar is stronger at tanking massive damage, however he needs a lot more itemization to be usefull after his ult wears off, and he has MUCH less mobility. Early game was one of the reasons why i started maining alist in the first place because i would lane with Baikinman as Blitzcrank and i would stun, punt, powerfist, and rocket grab when they tried to escape, pretty much ensuring lots of early game kills. However when i switched to Shen with Baikin again, i noticed that i had a lot more burst damage, i lacked the punt, but i could hold them in place with my taunt, and i didnt need flash for initiation. If you are laned with a ranged hero the punt is usefull because you can send the enemy backwards gained extra attacks from your parter's champion, but if you are laned with another stunner (ie. blitz) then Shens ranged CC and burst is stronger, plus his ability to use his Vorpal to heal your ally(like alistars heal for keeping you and your teammate up)
As for his ult, you have to learn when to use it vs saving it, sometimes your ally will get nuked to fast and either you will waste your CD, or worse, you will port in and get ganked as well..i still mess up fairly often on when to use my ult cause i like to save my allies, but other times its much more helpfull ulting someone who is about to die from ignite while running away, or is getting ganked by 1 or 2 champs that you can turn the tide of the fight and possibly countergank them.
All in all, Shen's mobility makes him more usefull than alistar even though he has slightly less tanking ability
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re: malphite:
malphite is also a capable jungler, which is a big deal.
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On May 25 2010 03:55 Madkipz wrote:
Comparing shen with alistar hahahaa.
Shen: more mobility, less tanking but he can cc enemies to attack him.
Alistar, always a good initiator, less mobile. Best tanking ultimate in the game.
you cant seriously compare vorpal KI with BLOWNUPINTHEAIRSTOMP SHEEN PROCC AUTOATTACK punt, death. ;/ meeh i do love Alistar but the metagame has sorta killed him in therms of how valuable an asset to the team he is. Id say Malphite plays slightly similar without the need of flash and sliightly better, and earlier sustained farming abilities. Malphite is more fragile though and harder to play.
Out of the two Malphite simply, ROCKS where Alistar stops shining. sheen on alistar? is that normal?
and i still say udyr is #2 tank right now. built right (locket+sunfires) he's damn near unkillable (turtle spamming, infinite locket healing, high hp) and deals massive AoE damage (phoenix+sunfires) while maintaining his ability to shut down a hero with bear's almost-gay chasing ability. there's less of a need for big team-battle initiator tanks nowadays so his weakness is covered by the metagame. second best jungler in the game and gives amazing map control early. he's no longer a "soft tank" IMO.
also:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2010 19:54 Gokey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2010 15:29 redtooth wrote:
btw Brees misses you guys. he says he's lonely without this thread and appreciates the high quality advice and information posted on here. he can't wait to get off from his ban and join back in to the intellectual and high level brainstorming we do here. My favorite part of Wrawra/redtooth is that he is never sarcastic in his posts. your mom
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ID: TheJerin
I've played way too much DoTa in my past [a lot with the clan hex guys]
and now utterly hooked on L.o.L.
always down for a game.
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sheen on alistar is semi-normal.
alistar builds always just seem like some awkward clusterfuck of whatever your 2k gold throughout the course of a game will buy you :p.
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On May 25 2010 06:08 Mogwai wrote:
sheen on alistar is semi-normal.
alistar builds always just seem like some awkward clusterfuck of whatever your 2k gold throughout the course of a game will buy you :p. another reason why i think udyr is awesome - he can actually farm and get money from kills.
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In the abstract, I'm finding it really hard to disagree with you on Udyr. Locket Udyr is funny and awesome.
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On May 25 2010 06:16 Mogwai wrote:
In the abstract, I'm finding it really hard to disagree with you on Udyr. Locket Udyr is funny and awesome. and broken.
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all this talk about broken is making me wanna play Ez, Nid, Taric Soraka, Udyr, and Janna and run spirit visage on everyone.
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i would cry vs that lineup.
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On May 25 2010 06:38 Mogwai wrote:
all this talk about broken is making me wanna play Ez, Nid, Taric Soraka, Udyr, and Janna and run spirit visage on everyone.
lets do it!
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Udyr's a nice off-tank melee DPS ala Nasus but he's by no means a tank, just as Nasus is not considered a tank. His damage output is too low after level 9 to be considered that good.
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On May 24 2010 23:34 Southlight wrote:
For me it's kind of like...
When I play Jax there is ALWAYS a Trist on the other team (which really fucks you up late-game).
When I play Twitch there is ALWAYS a Jax on the other team and that makes you @#$@#$ing rage.
But that game there was a Jax Shen Ez, which isn't even really rare. But it was like *unstealth* HI GUYS *3 guys jump at me and instadead* BYE GUYS!
IMO that game wasn't just coz of tris
gragas and Janna were making u fly everywhere reducing contact time
I also agree about twitch though since everyone likes to fuck twitch up
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And Trist. Gragas Ult -> Trist Ult -> Janna Ult OM NOM NOM NOM
FUUUUUUU
But anyways my point was more there's always a Trist when I play Jax 100%, it sucks.
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EPT
