• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:51
CEST 02:51
KST 09:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 226ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon405.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes39Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)102
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 29 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf First season(s) of tastosis gomtv gsl vods?
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7245 users

League of Legends - Page 155

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 153 154 155 156 157 281 Next
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
April 21 2010 02:08 GMT
#3081
Hey Go[z/k]ey I have a good team composition it's called ASHE SUCKS
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Cerumo
Profile Joined December 2009
United States40 Posts
April 21 2010 02:22 GMT
#3082
Sign me up as jax or anivia
Iwinulose
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 02:28:22
April 21 2010 02:27 GMT
#3083
On April 21 2010 10:16 oberon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 09:55 Southlight wrote:
On April 21 2010 09:52 Brees wrote:
You jungle with somebody because they cant lane for shit. (warwick, current udyr, shaco, etc)


Or because you want a level advantage and map control, and the hero needs money.


The overlooked part of jungling, IMHO, is the 1v2 lane. Almost anyone can jungle, but few heroes can farm effectively 1v2. Ironically, Fiddle rocks at both.

I love having a 1v2 lane with Cho, nobody can mess with you once you hit 6 and they're still both at ~4. Suddenly getting hit by a rupture becomes a near-death experience.

[edit] Not that I've been playing cho much recently on SR... he doesn't carry into very lategame well enough and my tristana is getting to be pretty sick :D. [/edit]
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 02:44 GMT
#3084
Yeah, so I've wanted to have this discussion for a long time--I don't think Ashe is viable in high-level games. She doesn't bring anything to the team except for two weak ranged slows and a long-range stun. She's squishy, slow, weak and item-dependent. One of her skills is useless. She needs solo mid.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought of her as a 100% noob character.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Gokey
Profile Joined November 2006
United States2722 Posts
April 21 2010 03:20 GMT
#3085
On April 21 2010 11:44 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Yeah, so I've wanted to have this discussion for a long time--I don't think Ashe is viable in high-level games. She doesn't bring anything to the team except for two weak ranged slows and a long-range stun. She's squishy, slow, weak and item-dependent. One of her skills is useless. She needs solo mid.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought of her as a 100% noob character.

Well, I disagree... I think her long-ranged stun and above-average range of auto-attack and area-wide and far volley are useful both in early laning and late team fighting scenarios. She has one of the best initiators and can stay very safe if played right due to her range. She's item dependent, but that's true of any DPS.

I'm pretty excited about the new skill they're unveiling for her, replacing the Plentiful Bounty skill. Really curious as to what skill will complement/add to her arsenal.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 03:43 GMT
#3086
she's really good solo mid during laning and kites like a champ. She's got a very good stun on low CD and a good skill that knocks out Banshee's Veil. She's not top tier, and really isn't equips to carry at higher levels like she seems to at low ELOs, but she's far from inviable.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
April 21 2010 03:48 GMT
#3087
I just started playing the game a few days ago after all my friends pestered me into it. I'm a level 4, is Zilean viable at high level play? I really like him and using his character. For that matter, can anyone with experience tell me if the game is balanced?
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
Nashun
Profile Joined April 2010
United States56 Posts
April 21 2010 03:53 GMT
#3088
Yeah, Ashe is pretty amazing. One of the best initiates in the game, one of the longest pokes in the game, and a permanent slow on a ranged character. She may not be top tier, but she's far from useless in a high-ELO game.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 04:17 GMT
#3089
On April 21 2010 12:48 captainwaffles wrote:
I just started playing the game a few days ago after all my friends pestered me into it. I'm a level 4, is Zilean viable at high level play? I really like him and using his character. For that matter, can anyone with experience tell me if the game is balanced?

he's mostly just annoying at high level, but I guess he's decent. The better Zils I see go ignite and get deathfire grasp first to nuke more effectively. after that, I have no fucking idea.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Baikinman
Profile Joined January 2010
United States74 Posts
April 21 2010 04:18 GMT
#3090
[image loading]

almost perfect
はっひふっへほ~♪
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
April 21 2010 04:19 GMT
#3091
IF EVERYONE ELSE DIED ONCE IT WOULDA BEEN PERFECT.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 04:21 GMT
#3092
jesus christ, southlight needs to stop feeding.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 04:37 GMT
#3093
@ the Ashe discussion:

Yeah, but I just don't see a place for her in a 5v5 premade team at a high elo. Mid-low, yeah, sure, she carries with a ranged slow and her ult, but as I get higher it just seems like she doesn't contribute enough to a team to take solo mid over someone like, say, Ezrael. I'm not saying she's unplayable, but there are characters that outclass her and do pretty much the same thing.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 05:13 GMT
#3094
one of the things you need to realize about higher elo solo mid is that it's really really matchup dependent. A lot of the time, you can't afford for your ranged DPS carry to go mid because they'll get so badly starved by a rough matchup, so most of the time you'll see your corki/twitch/trist/ez/TF (trist less so than the others because of her remarkable burst) on a side lane in the pursuit of letting a solo with better matchups like Annie/Anivia/Nidalee take mid. Ashe still has a few good matchups mid, but frankly she lost a lot with Sivir's nerf putting Sivir way outside of being viable solo mid (since Ashe was the hardest counter to Sivir, and could basically just take Sivir out of the game by shadowing her lane movements). The other thing to notice is that Ashe does not fill the Ranged DPS carry role, she's really just a supporter who nullifies banshee's and has a built in slow. This means that you build into black cleaver quickly to make yourself a debuffing machine who should be constantly fucking with the other team's ability to initiate by volleying their initiator and slowing them the fuck down. All this makes her really really good in the pre-initiation phase of team fights, but she's obviously lacking when the shit hits the fan with her lack of sustained damage output or srs bznz burst from abilities, so you really need to be leveraging her strong side to make the initial engagements as favorable as possible to make up for her weaknesses.

So yea, she's a big niche character, but so are most of them. If everyone were just concerned with playing the best possible characters for set roles without looking at more dynamic team setups, you'd probably only have ~10 viable characters.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 05:36:15
April 21 2010 05:29 GMT
#3095
Most viable, straight-up team setup would be something like TF/Corki Shen/Taric Alistar/Malphite Annie/Fiddle and Soraka/Janna. That would be the "we beat all" sort of combo. Very strong in 5v5 and designed to kill you really fast and consistently.

Edit:
As for Ashe, Ashe is an initiator's worst nightmare. If she gets BanVeil and decent damage output she's the strongest initiator in the game, excepting Alistar (who will trump her initiation by punting her -> stops at her and kills veil, then pulverize). Unfortunately that means your initiator slot is taken up by someone who doesn't really do anything to mobile characters, of which there are now quite a few (Jax, Shen, Shaco, Kassadin, Poppy, etc.) She also has the same issue as most other AoE spammers, in that she'll push lanes and hog gold, meaning your lanemate usually struggles to farm. Couple that with her lack of stun until ~10 minutes into a game and her lane presence via volley can be trumped by superior harassment (ie. Zilean) or simple double-stun bursts.

I don't think she's terrible at "high Elo games" but you end up having to tweak your team build to suit her, as is the case for most teams, really. I mean I always run with a Blitz. A very good one, at that. That means I can't just run a normal team setup. We play a very push-and-pull setup because Blitz shines retreating into a tower as opposed to pushing into a tower (although he can push into a tower quite nice, too).
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
pokeyAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States936 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 06:19:12
April 21 2010 06:18 GMT
#3096
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.

I for one can never play annie or fiddle, don't have the patience/finesse for them. I think Rammus is the funnest tank. Taric bores me to tears but I love Soraka. At the same time, do have some sort of roster of champs youre good with that you can cycle (ranged dps, melee dps, caster, support, tank) so you dont gimp your team. I definitely lean towards assassin characters most of the time (ashe, kat, ezreal, jax), but I can also play Nasus, Rammus, Soraka when need be.

Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
April 21 2010 06:25 GMT
#3097
On April 21 2010 15:18 pokeyAA wrote:
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.


Agreed. It just amounts to playstyle, what your comfortable with, and what your team build will allow you to do. I love playing the bludgeon characters, which is why I'm comfortable with Malph/Taric/Soraka etc. and I've made clear I don't play Taric/Soraka the way most people would. The moment I feel I'm at an advantage, or need a disadvantage to be nullified, I prefer to be able to instantly turn the game around in an early 5v5 match. Other people prefer to be mobile and constantly playing a game of cat-and-mouse; those are the Shacos at higher Elos, whom do relatively successfully despite Shaco being a terribad 5v5 hero (incidentally those also tend to be the Shacos I take advantage of >_>) Riot has done a phenomenal job at beating down heroes that were too strong, thus promoting hero variety on Summoner's Rift. There's an obvious tier list based on game mechanics (AoE/Disables will always be very strong) but there's an increasing number of heroes that can trump their lack of superior game-mechanic-abuse with other strengths. Mogwai's become quite proficient at Pantheon, and it's working out pretty well against some decent competition. But most people would (rightfully, IMO) argue that Pantheon is far from a top or even middle tier.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 06:48 GMT
#3098
On April 21 2010 15:25 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 15:18 pokeyAA wrote:
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.


Agreed. It just amounts to playstyle, what your comfortable with, and what your team build will allow you to do. I love playing the bludgeon characters, which is why I'm comfortable with Malph/Taric/Soraka etc. and I've made clear I don't play Taric/Soraka the way most people would. The moment I feel I'm at an advantage, or need a disadvantage to be nullified, I prefer to be able to instantly turn the game around in an early 5v5 match. Other people prefer to be mobile and constantly playing a game of cat-and-mouse; those are the Shacos at higher Elos, whom do relatively successfully despite Shaco being a terribad 5v5 hero (incidentally those also tend to be the Shacos I take advantage of >_>) Riot has done a phenomenal job at beating down heroes that were too strong, thus promoting hero variety on Summoner's Rift. There's an obvious tier list based on game mechanics (AoE/Disables will always be very strong) but there's an increasing number of heroes that can trump their lack of superior game-mechanic-abuse with other strengths. Mogwai's become quite proficient at Pantheon, and it's working out pretty well against some decent competition. But most people would (rightfully, IMO) argue that Pantheon is far from a top or even middle tier.

To be fair all 3 of those heroes you listed as "being comfortable with" are top-tier :D.

I mean, I get the point, but it's like playing a Trynd when you could be playing Jax. I know what you're saying about playing fun characters because I wreck house with Cho, but I started to pick real heroes for important games.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 09:06 GMT
#3099
I also have a newfound respect for Wit's End after it helped me come back from a losing game, I basically aced their team with it before we pushed their nexus :D.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
April 21 2010 10:10 GMT
#3100
Aww. Kawaii abandoned me for YOU guys
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Prev 1 153 154 155 156 157 281 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#89
PiGStarcraft527
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft527
ViBE266
ProTech133
Nina 113
Temp0 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17098
GuemChi 3428
Rain 3082
Artosis 610
Bale 12
League of Legends
Doublelift4837
JimRising 364
Counter-Strike
summit1g10348
Fnx 1303
taco 93
minikerr32
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1162
Mew2King287
Other Games
Day[9].tv912
shahzam663
C9.Mang0388
Maynarde177
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick35949
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 91
• RyuSc2 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21178
League of Legends
• Scarra1100
Other Games
• Day9tv912
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
9h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
CrankTV Team League
1d 10h
OSC
1d 16h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.