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Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
April 21 2010 02:08 GMT
#3081
Hey Go[z/k]ey I have a good team composition it's called ASHE SUCKS
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Cerumo
Profile Joined December 2009
United States40 Posts
April 21 2010 02:22 GMT
#3082
Sign me up as jax or anivia
Iwinulose
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 02:28:22
April 21 2010 02:27 GMT
#3083
On April 21 2010 10:16 oberon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 09:55 Southlight wrote:
On April 21 2010 09:52 Brees wrote:
You jungle with somebody because they cant lane for shit. (warwick, current udyr, shaco, etc)


Or because you want a level advantage and map control, and the hero needs money.


The overlooked part of jungling, IMHO, is the 1v2 lane. Almost anyone can jungle, but few heroes can farm effectively 1v2. Ironically, Fiddle rocks at both.

I love having a 1v2 lane with Cho, nobody can mess with you once you hit 6 and they're still both at ~4. Suddenly getting hit by a rupture becomes a near-death experience.

[edit] Not that I've been playing cho much recently on SR... he doesn't carry into very lategame well enough and my tristana is getting to be pretty sick :D. [/edit]
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 02:44 GMT
#3084
Yeah, so I've wanted to have this discussion for a long time--I don't think Ashe is viable in high-level games. She doesn't bring anything to the team except for two weak ranged slows and a long-range stun. She's squishy, slow, weak and item-dependent. One of her skills is useless. She needs solo mid.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought of her as a 100% noob character.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Gokey
Profile Joined November 2006
United States2722 Posts
April 21 2010 03:20 GMT
#3085
On April 21 2010 11:44 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Yeah, so I've wanted to have this discussion for a long time--I don't think Ashe is viable in high-level games. She doesn't bring anything to the team except for two weak ranged slows and a long-range stun. She's squishy, slow, weak and item-dependent. One of her skills is useless. She needs solo mid.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought of her as a 100% noob character.

Well, I disagree... I think her long-ranged stun and above-average range of auto-attack and area-wide and far volley are useful both in early laning and late team fighting scenarios. She has one of the best initiators and can stay very safe if played right due to her range. She's item dependent, but that's true of any DPS.

I'm pretty excited about the new skill they're unveiling for her, replacing the Plentiful Bounty skill. Really curious as to what skill will complement/add to her arsenal.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 03:43 GMT
#3086
she's really good solo mid during laning and kites like a champ. She's got a very good stun on low CD and a good skill that knocks out Banshee's Veil. She's not top tier, and really isn't equips to carry at higher levels like she seems to at low ELOs, but she's far from inviable.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
April 21 2010 03:48 GMT
#3087
I just started playing the game a few days ago after all my friends pestered me into it. I'm a level 4, is Zilean viable at high level play? I really like him and using his character. For that matter, can anyone with experience tell me if the game is balanced?
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
Nashun
Profile Joined April 2010
United States56 Posts
April 21 2010 03:53 GMT
#3088
Yeah, Ashe is pretty amazing. One of the best initiates in the game, one of the longest pokes in the game, and a permanent slow on a ranged character. She may not be top tier, but she's far from useless in a high-ELO game.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 04:17 GMT
#3089
On April 21 2010 12:48 captainwaffles wrote:
I just started playing the game a few days ago after all my friends pestered me into it. I'm a level 4, is Zilean viable at high level play? I really like him and using his character. For that matter, can anyone with experience tell me if the game is balanced?

he's mostly just annoying at high level, but I guess he's decent. The better Zils I see go ignite and get deathfire grasp first to nuke more effectively. after that, I have no fucking idea.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Baikinman
Profile Joined January 2010
United States74 Posts
April 21 2010 04:18 GMT
#3090
[image loading]

almost perfect
はっひふっへほ~♪
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
April 21 2010 04:19 GMT
#3091
IF EVERYONE ELSE DIED ONCE IT WOULDA BEEN PERFECT.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 04:21 GMT
#3092
jesus christ, southlight needs to stop feeding.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 04:37 GMT
#3093
@ the Ashe discussion:

Yeah, but I just don't see a place for her in a 5v5 premade team at a high elo. Mid-low, yeah, sure, she carries with a ranged slow and her ult, but as I get higher it just seems like she doesn't contribute enough to a team to take solo mid over someone like, say, Ezrael. I'm not saying she's unplayable, but there are characters that outclass her and do pretty much the same thing.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 21 2010 05:13 GMT
#3094
one of the things you need to realize about higher elo solo mid is that it's really really matchup dependent. A lot of the time, you can't afford for your ranged DPS carry to go mid because they'll get so badly starved by a rough matchup, so most of the time you'll see your corki/twitch/trist/ez/TF (trist less so than the others because of her remarkable burst) on a side lane in the pursuit of letting a solo with better matchups like Annie/Anivia/Nidalee take mid. Ashe still has a few good matchups mid, but frankly she lost a lot with Sivir's nerf putting Sivir way outside of being viable solo mid (since Ashe was the hardest counter to Sivir, and could basically just take Sivir out of the game by shadowing her lane movements). The other thing to notice is that Ashe does not fill the Ranged DPS carry role, she's really just a supporter who nullifies banshee's and has a built in slow. This means that you build into black cleaver quickly to make yourself a debuffing machine who should be constantly fucking with the other team's ability to initiate by volleying their initiator and slowing them the fuck down. All this makes her really really good in the pre-initiation phase of team fights, but she's obviously lacking when the shit hits the fan with her lack of sustained damage output or srs bznz burst from abilities, so you really need to be leveraging her strong side to make the initial engagements as favorable as possible to make up for her weaknesses.

So yea, she's a big niche character, but so are most of them. If everyone were just concerned with playing the best possible characters for set roles without looking at more dynamic team setups, you'd probably only have ~10 viable characters.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 05:36:15
April 21 2010 05:29 GMT
#3095
Most viable, straight-up team setup would be something like TF/Corki Shen/Taric Alistar/Malphite Annie/Fiddle and Soraka/Janna. That would be the "we beat all" sort of combo. Very strong in 5v5 and designed to kill you really fast and consistently.

Edit:
As for Ashe, Ashe is an initiator's worst nightmare. If she gets BanVeil and decent damage output she's the strongest initiator in the game, excepting Alistar (who will trump her initiation by punting her -> stops at her and kills veil, then pulverize). Unfortunately that means your initiator slot is taken up by someone who doesn't really do anything to mobile characters, of which there are now quite a few (Jax, Shen, Shaco, Kassadin, Poppy, etc.) She also has the same issue as most other AoE spammers, in that she'll push lanes and hog gold, meaning your lanemate usually struggles to farm. Couple that with her lack of stun until ~10 minutes into a game and her lane presence via volley can be trumped by superior harassment (ie. Zilean) or simple double-stun bursts.

I don't think she's terrible at "high Elo games" but you end up having to tweak your team build to suit her, as is the case for most teams, really. I mean I always run with a Blitz. A very good one, at that. That means I can't just run a normal team setup. We play a very push-and-pull setup because Blitz shines retreating into a tower as opposed to pushing into a tower (although he can push into a tower quite nice, too).
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
pokeyAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States936 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 06:19:12
April 21 2010 06:18 GMT
#3096
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.

I for one can never play annie or fiddle, don't have the patience/finesse for them. I think Rammus is the funnest tank. Taric bores me to tears but I love Soraka. At the same time, do have some sort of roster of champs youre good with that you can cycle (ranged dps, melee dps, caster, support, tank) so you dont gimp your team. I definitely lean towards assassin characters most of the time (ashe, kat, ezreal, jax), but I can also play Nasus, Rammus, Soraka when need be.

Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
April 21 2010 06:25 GMT
#3097
On April 21 2010 15:18 pokeyAA wrote:
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.


Agreed. It just amounts to playstyle, what your comfortable with, and what your team build will allow you to do. I love playing the bludgeon characters, which is why I'm comfortable with Malph/Taric/Soraka etc. and I've made clear I don't play Taric/Soraka the way most people would. The moment I feel I'm at an advantage, or need a disadvantage to be nullified, I prefer to be able to instantly turn the game around in an early 5v5 match. Other people prefer to be mobile and constantly playing a game of cat-and-mouse; those are the Shacos at higher Elos, whom do relatively successfully despite Shaco being a terribad 5v5 hero (incidentally those also tend to be the Shacos I take advantage of >_>) Riot has done a phenomenal job at beating down heroes that were too strong, thus promoting hero variety on Summoner's Rift. There's an obvious tier list based on game mechanics (AoE/Disables will always be very strong) but there's an increasing number of heroes that can trump their lack of superior game-mechanic-abuse with other strengths. Mogwai's become quite proficient at Pantheon, and it's working out pretty well against some decent competition. But most people would (rightfully, IMO) argue that Pantheon is far from a top or even middle tier.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 06:48 GMT
#3098
On April 21 2010 15:25 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 15:18 pokeyAA wrote:
Meh, I play the characters I have fun with. I played Eve until it was obvious she couldn't hack it in higher ELO (in which case it stopped being fun). Havent had much problems playing Ashe yet. Look at it like Wazzabi playing Warwick, if you really enjoy your character, you might do a lot better playing a 'shittier' character than hating your higher tier characters.


Agreed. It just amounts to playstyle, what your comfortable with, and what your team build will allow you to do. I love playing the bludgeon characters, which is why I'm comfortable with Malph/Taric/Soraka etc. and I've made clear I don't play Taric/Soraka the way most people would. The moment I feel I'm at an advantage, or need a disadvantage to be nullified, I prefer to be able to instantly turn the game around in an early 5v5 match. Other people prefer to be mobile and constantly playing a game of cat-and-mouse; those are the Shacos at higher Elos, whom do relatively successfully despite Shaco being a terribad 5v5 hero (incidentally those also tend to be the Shacos I take advantage of >_>) Riot has done a phenomenal job at beating down heroes that were too strong, thus promoting hero variety on Summoner's Rift. There's an obvious tier list based on game mechanics (AoE/Disables will always be very strong) but there's an increasing number of heroes that can trump their lack of superior game-mechanic-abuse with other strengths. Mogwai's become quite proficient at Pantheon, and it's working out pretty well against some decent competition. But most people would (rightfully, IMO) argue that Pantheon is far from a top or even middle tier.

To be fair all 3 of those heroes you listed as "being comfortable with" are top-tier :D.

I mean, I get the point, but it's like playing a Trynd when you could be playing Jax. I know what you're saying about playing fun characters because I wreck house with Cho, but I started to pick real heroes for important games.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 21 2010 09:06 GMT
#3099
I also have a newfound respect for Wit's End after it helped me come back from a losing game, I basically aced their team with it before we pushed their nexus :D.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
April 21 2010 10:10 GMT
#3100
Aww. Kawaii abandoned me for YOU guys
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
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