• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:46
CEST 19:46
KST 02:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?0Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris44Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves #2: Serral - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
Monday Nights Weeklies LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris 🏆 GTL Season 2 – StarCraft II Team League $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft at lower levels TvP ASL20 General Discussion Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! Small VOD Thread 2.0 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 742 users

How the Cards Have Fallen - Page 2

Forum Index > Final Edits
59 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 00:34:45
December 26 2008 00:10 GMT
#21
There are so many pieces that needs to fall in place for SC2 to be successfull in Europe/NA.
Here are a few pointers that NEEDS to work out well in order for SC2 to succeed in my opinion;

1. A great e-sport game(good spectator game, skillbased and action-packed). (pre-check)

2. ex Warcraft 3 / Starcraft playerbase merging upon SC2. (pre-check)

3. Major multigaming organizations picking up SC2 (MyM is a safe bet, fnatic probably too. SK, i'm not so sure yet. They do play a huge role in the foreign scene, if SK signs a SC2 team we can expect a HUGE impact on the foreign scene in terms of a larger fanbase, additional sponsors, more professionalism, MAJOR incentive for foreigners to practice and get a spot in the worlds most famous e-sport organization, aswell as added competition to the existing teams.)

4. Lots of offline tournaments. (Hard to predict, but if major organization pick up teams, the tournamens should follow )

5. Coverage (No way to predict this either, will a "professional" foreign SC-site step up to the plate on SC2 if point 3-4 are true? Lets hope so. My hope is that GG.net improves alot or that TL.net takes on the foreign scene )

I have my fingers crossed for the foreign scene next year.. assuming SC2 is released then of course. I really like the korean scene, but its just so distant in many ways that its hard to relate to and really get up "close" with the teams and players and understand what is going.
A professional foreign scene is much needed imo.

"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 01:29:58
December 26 2008 01:12 GMT
#22
Colbi is one of the constant positive forces in the StarCraft community (for years) and he is a great guy.

And yes, it's a pity that non-Korean StarCraft never quite made it beyond the amateur scene. In sports one really does need the best to run the show. It's a pity Korean StarCraft e-Sports economic incentives came too late for the rest for the rest of the world when we had a fan based that meant something. I guess we should count our blessing that it happened.

There were attempts outside but it never quite just got there, not with enough money to be self-sustaining. I really think the main message of this article is in the last sentence - this time around hopefully fewer cards will fall. Those of us left have a baggage of past experiences, failures included, in our favor. But I really believe there is one even more important point that does not depend on us, the business or e-Sports ventures at all but rather only Blizzard.

The best thing that can happen to the StarCraft e-Sport community, and thus Starcraft II itself, is that the skills Brood War pro-gamers have acquired all these years, can be carried over to StarCraft II. I once wrote when StarCraft II was first revealed:

"So what now? Time will tell. Only the strong succeed and the weak wilt away. It is hard to get good at Brood War, many of us have put countless of hours trying to improve however this new StarCraft II promises no continuity. We can not carry our skill over that easily now. That has been our greatest fear, the break in continuity."

If they are to succeed in a way that truly uplifts Blizzard game related e-Sports to a higher level than we see today, that break in continuity, needs to be minimized as much as possible.
I have no doubt that games will be sold, clans will be born and sponsors will come. I have no doubt that this round many of us do things more efficiently but if Blizzard can achieve continuity we will see so much more.

"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
HoRRoR.T-ScT-
Profile Joined March 2007
Germany51 Posts
December 26 2008 01:21 GMT
#23
Great article!
Colbi
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States535 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 01:29:22
December 26 2008 01:28 GMT
#24
I appreciate all of the positive feedback!

The.Crow makes many great points in his post and I appreciate him shedding a little more light in regards to what does or doesn't interest sponsors.

As always Physician, another well-written post. I am not worried at all that SC2 will sell millions of copies and sponsors will catch on. I believe one of the only true questions is will SC2 be able to enjoy the same type of longevity that SC has?
Editor-in-Chief for Team EG - http://www.twitter.com/LColbi
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 01:33:48
December 26 2008 01:31 GMT
#25
I hear ya, I too shudder at the thought of a StarCraft 2 ending up like WarCraft 2..
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
sk`
Profile Joined November 2008
Japan442 Posts
December 26 2008 02:08 GMT
#26
As a team owner I can give some insight here.

When my group looks at divisions to pick up our first though is going to me on mindshare and how that will translate. My next though is on the maturity of the community and the maturity of the players themselves. The second point is such that winning alone won't always generate the desired effect. More than winning, if the players poorly represent themselves and your team, you're still in a hole. The other big issue with maturity is one that relates to CS more the SC, but still applies - few players really have the maturity to know exactly what's realistic. Only a tiny few teams can consider any monthly pay and even then that number will continue to shrink - sponsor dollars are becoming rarer and rarer. The fall of the CGS is going to make esports investment seem as an even riskier use of funds in the vastly drier economy of the peak.

The point of all that is players that act 12 or have unrealistic expectations are going to simply waste your time. In my view, any NA player should be thrilled with a team that's willing to cover *some* of their travel costs and back them up on entry fees and the like. A salary for a NA or even EU player in SC... just not realistic given the market. And of course the notion of hardware to play a game that's as aged as SC is equally silly.

I think every esports owner that looks at SC is looking at it with SC2 in mind. Right now SC1 isn't a global event so if you're not a team in Korea you're not a team in the market and more importantly, that market is closed to Korea only. So success with a Korean team would only translate to Korean mindshare... not a wise investment for a non-Korean organization. More importantly, the investment commitment would be beyond the wallets of every large EU or NA team (well beyond the NA scene).

But, there will be a period when SC2 is young that it will be a global game. This may continue long after as well - we see this with the much hated War3.

The other big issue with RTS investment is that players quickly become known by name more than team. This is why you see the Korean teams continue to prefer the team events over the solo. If your players are known more by name that your team it is effectively generating zero mindshare. And worst still, almost all players are extremely happy with being known by their name first and their team second. Unfortunately, much like esports itself, the players that compose it tend to have a very limited view and often lack maturity in their decision making.
www.pureesports.com
Colbi
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States535 Posts
December 26 2008 02:24 GMT
#27
Some very interesting insight. May I ask what team you own?
Editor-in-Chief for Team EG - http://www.twitter.com/LColbi
sk`
Profile Joined November 2008
Japan442 Posts
December 26 2008 02:30 GMT
#28
PM would be fine. More here to look around and I'm a fan of SC.
www.pureesports.com
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
December 26 2008 02:43 GMT
#29
Wow great stuff and well written on something rarely discussed on these boards. Very nice!!~~
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
December 26 2008 03:02 GMT
#30
wow ToT has been there forever.
boesthius
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States11637 Posts
December 26 2008 03:32 GMT
#31
--- Nuked ---
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
December 26 2008 06:07 GMT
#32
I loved the timeline, and great post all-over. I always see the big fancy newspost about new sponsored teams and then eagerly await to hear about how well they do, and the post just never seems to appear lol.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
December 26 2008 08:54 GMT
#33
wow, just that one timeline graph makes my jaw drop
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
December 26 2008 09:31 GMT
#34
Great article! As many have said nice timeline
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
December 26 2008 11:09 GMT
#35
MYM is the best multigaming team imho : they got a POWERFUL teams in SC , WC3 and CS ... i hope that other teams like ToT , SK and so on will make their own SC2 team too . That would be one step closer to a professional foreign SC2 scene great article ;]
T H C makes ppl happy
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
December 26 2008 11:56 GMT
#36
Yey for foreign starcraft, I just hope the scene for SCII will be even bigger
u gotta sk8
ilistis
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States828 Posts
December 26 2008 13:44 GMT
#37
Great read, I've been waiting for a Final Edit for quite some time. Glad to see its still going. :D
"The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones."-William Faulkner *_*_*_Kolll FAN_*_*_*
MuR)Ernu
Profile Joined September 2008
Finland768 Posts
December 26 2008 14:26 GMT
#38
On December 26 2008 07:45 s.a.y wrote:
a good article, but not great. it misses conclusions like The.Crow added.

i've been following the CS,Q3,UT ( ut2k4 & ut3 ) series and the start is that the game must be very popular between the noobs and have good multiplayer. Q3 failed because the community splited, UT3 was just trash out of the box, CS was perfect.

i hope sc2 will be also good for a large community, then sponsors will invest money into competitive play.

go fnatic !

I hope BW will be good, and i hope that sc2 will be crap.
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
December 26 2008 15:36 GMT
#39
a nice article, but we go by the name mTw.AMD, not ATI
Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
December 26 2008 18:24 GMT
#40
colbi sooooo gooood.. UhmAzing even! ^_^
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
Monday Night Weekly 1 Season 2
SteadfastSC408
TKL 365
IndyStarCraft 151
BRAT_OK 144
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 694
SteadfastSC 408
TKL 365
IndyStarCraft 151
BRAT_OK 144
JuggernautJason47
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3819
Sea 2647
Horang2 1213
Shuttle 607
Larva 418
ggaemo 217
firebathero 195
sSak 142
Zeus 103
PianO 84
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 81
hero 77
Mong 66
Hyun 65
Mind 57
Aegong 35
soO 31
Rock 25
JulyZerg 8
SilentControl 5
Noble 4
ivOry 4
Dota 2
Gorgc7123
qojqva3583
XcaliburYe205
Counter-Strike
fl0m3929
byalli274
Stewie2K139
Other Games
ceh9614
Lowko523
Hui .207
KnowMe198
ArmadaUGS164
C9.Mang099
Trikslyr79
QueenE63
MindelVK19
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta16
• Reevou 2
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 42
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3820
• WagamamaTV554
League of Legends
• TFBlade829
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur219
Other Games
• imaqtpie766
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 14m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 14m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 6h
LiuLi Cup
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
OSC
3 days
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
4 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.