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Mind Over Mechanics - Page 4

Forum Index > Final Edits
107 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8090 Posts
November 15 2008 23:21 GMT
#61
Nice article riptide, we should have a game of sc soon
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
November 15 2008 23:32 GMT
#62
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you


pick your choice tl
this poster is:

A Troll
B Just stupid
C Just inmature
D Laugh because hell be baned in 1 week
E All of the above

Back on topic:
Nice article. I want to add something about the 2 top atm.
Stork has shown a big evolution in his mind game (the preparation during his osl run was almost flawless), and bisu has also shown improvement in this area. While thinking about why these two are again on top form i noted that they are not as good as they used to be: they are playing much better than that. Technically their game has not "evolved", its their decision making and bo choices that have become incredible good, has an example stork didnt repeat a BO on his osl run and bisu doesnt abuse of dt every game. I really want to see some Terran and Zerg improving in this area, and lastly I want that Best catches that this is the biggest leak in his game.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-15 23:44:04
November 15 2008 23:37 GMT
#63
Its true that mind is incredibly important in a series, or any game, but its not anymore important than it use to be. Nor is mechanics. Macro, and all around ability, have increased- but they have increased at a steady pace. A player can win now by pumping out more troops, just as often and just as effectively as a few years ago. A player can win by being confident and making his opponent the opposite, just as effectively as a few years ago. Nothing has changed. Mechanics are still the all important back bone. They are the thing that gives you the edge. Mind is what allows you to reach the challenge, mechanics is what pulls you through it.

First article ive disagreed with. No trend will be broken, because there is no trend. This is starcraft as it always was, only a lot, and I mean a lot, better.

Edit: If there is any confusion about what I meant: Mechanics allows you to overcome mind, mind allows you to overcome mechanics. They are one in the same. July, even with an advantage in confidence, would of not been able to defeat Best had he had poor macro, bad game sense, sloppy play, etc. You can not will yourself a victory. However Best could not have even reached the finals had he not had a huge degree of confidence, ability to inspire fear in his opponents, game sense, and style. Both are utterly required to play Starcraft to an optimum level, and therefore trying to splice, categorize, and evaluate their importance is nothing more than pointless.

'Style' for example, is nothing more than the difference in emphasis placed upon completely standarized, macro based play, and a more dangerous, assertive harass/aggressive based play. The skill sets are all there, and neither will reign supreme in definitely, for they are the same thing. Starcraft.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
November 16 2008 00:20 GMT
#64
I definitely agree, very nice read. The reason why older players are making a comeback definitely applies here. They're tightening up the mechanical aspects of the game, and are applying the mind games of old. If they can perfect and keep on par with the former, they will definitely make a comeback using the latter.

I would really love to see Jaedong take this next step. He plays in a very controlling style...if you watch his games, as long as he is never completely shaken, and can get back into the pace of the game, he never loses. If you are even with Jaedong, you will lose. The issue is his play lately has been lacking that kind of dominating flavor. He ripped through people with perfect play, but never really shows that "panache" or "flair" that is being discussed in this article...the focus on the mind game.

He's one of my favorite players, though, so I really hope to see him make it back on top. It'd be insane to see him transition into this kind of play. I think it'd be frightening in its dominance.
Hello
Raz0r
Profile Joined September 2008
United States287 Posts
November 16 2008 00:26 GMT
#65
Nice article. I wish I could have all the mechanics down and the timings and macro and micro right
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
November 16 2008 00:46 GMT
#66
On November 16 2008 07:36 Mikilatov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you


Jesus, what's with all the banworthy garbage I've been encountering in the past week? Maybe it's just bad luck, but it seems every thread I go into lately has some trolling asshole MEATGRINDERING shit out of his mouth.

Sorry to say I might have done some semi-trolling in a thread. It was late. I was frustrated.
Jaedong
Roxen000
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
1226 Posts
November 16 2008 01:00 GMT
#67
Well written. I enjoyed the article, thanks a bunch.
._.
GearitUP
Profile Joined November 2008
United States337 Posts
November 16 2008 01:27 GMT
#68
Great Artlicle, very well put together I enjoyed it... I wonder what will be the constant for SC in 2009 seeing as sc2 is coming out soon.
Own<Owned<Ownt<Pwn<Pwned<PwnT< YOU NEWB!
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
November 16 2008 01:55 GMT
#69
Well, Flash isnt just mechanics. He is also good in mind games when he was on top of his game. Bachus OSL shows it all. But he seemed to have lost this edge now probably because of overconfidence in his abilities to do risky builds and still win (14cc). But after watching the GOM2 ro32 game against Fantasy, I can say that the dominant attitude is almost back, it maybe even is back already. He probably got through the puberty stage already.
Woo Jung Ho
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
November 16 2008 02:05 GMT
#70
Must be Smart to win Bo5s
returns upon momentous occasions.
anotak
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1537 Posts
November 16 2008 02:15 GMT
#71
I would criticize you for saying that Flash and Jaedong aren't using the mental side of the game, see Flash vs. Stork @ Bacchus. That was not mechanics, that was Stork being crushed by mindgames. See Flash vs. Jaedong @ GOM classic 1
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
November 16 2008 02:15 GMT
#72
On November 16 2008 07:53 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you


Lol, How old are you kid?


On November 16 2008 07:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you

lol well just to point out a little fun fact, Zoler was a B+ Terran, which I doubt you are.

Plus rest of your post doesn't even make sense, so I'm not even going to respond to any of it. Two other people have already done an exceptionally good job at mauling you for your blatant stupidity.


On November 16 2008 07:36 Mikilatov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you


Jesus, what's with all the banworthy garbage I've been encountering in the past week? Maybe it's just bad luck, but it seems every thread I go into lately has some trolling asshole MEATGRINDERING shit out of his mouth.


On November 16 2008 06:48 CDRdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 05:04 NahLGaE wrote:
good read but the part about stork bringing in probes is kind of out of context since it wasnt like an all in rush (like july's 5pool) since he did it after he knew that he won already and was just proving a point for psychological damage if anything.

Isn't that the point of the article? Mind games for psychological damage? How is it out of context?

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you

I find your posts disrespectful, and I couldn't disagree more. I am a poor player, but I can still post more intelligently than you are apparently capable of.


On November 16 2008 08:32 malongo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:26 simcar wrote:
I cant remember that MJY had 90%,but until facing Bisu his ZvP was about 86%.
2 Zoler,i see u even dont understand what SC:BW is.+ Show Spoiler +
MB u are player D rank in iccup
Just watch Savior's game againt anybody,in BO3 and in BO5 he never used 1 strat again. For example in GOMTV MSL S3 againts Free[gm] he didnt use same tacticks. Just watch it.
And my advice for some users of teamliquid :+ Show Spoiler +
guys, before posting something ,at least learn how to play sc,pls gain at least B- in iccup and then post PLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thank you


pick your choice tl
this poster is:

A Troll
B Just stupid
C Just immature
D Laugh because hell be baned in 1 week
E All of the above

Can't help but agree with you guys...

I'd choose E, and I think this dudes last 5 posts or so are dedicated to flame guys here with a hundred times more posts than his..

and yeah, fix your grammar first before you flame anyone, k?
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
November 16 2008 03:08 GMT
#73
This article has taken away the doubt in my mind that Boxer won't come back stronger than ever.
ALL HAIL THE EMPEROR!
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
November 16 2008 04:28 GMT
#74
When ever i read articles like theze a two players come to mind hwasin and sea.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
November 16 2008 04:34 GMT
#75
On November 16 2008 00:26 Zoler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 00:19 SilverSkyLark wrote:
On November 16 2008 00:05 Zoler wrote:
On November 15 2008 23:50 simcar wrote:
2 Zoler , in replays he did 3 hatch play,but watch his VODS and u will see that he is talent,and he uses his brain.ROBOTS can not be in FINALS 6 times without break !!! see---> Jaedong,FLash etc...
I think u + Show Spoiler +
noob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STFU PLS


hahahha I see you are a fanboy. fanboys always get angry when you say something bad about their love. and what, he is talent? ]


maybe he meant talented...

and yeah, I agree with your post zoler, he did the same thing every game, but I think that you failed to mention that his game was untouchable thats why he had that 90% win rate and you got flamed by someone with less that 20 posts.

I haven't really been in the sAviOr era, but I think he was one of the great players who were untouchable, won an OSL, then slumped, and is making a come back. This is when the Mind gets in, just look at Boxer, 2 straight OSLs, only getting defeated by the Legend Of Fall (like 4 times). He is a very good example of a player with a good, even exceptional, mental strength. sAviOr stayed in the spotlight with his perfect game sense and his talent, but after winning the OSL, he went into a slump.


I'd love to see him in a comeback. and yeah, he is a fanboy.


That is very true Savior won a lot, but 90%? Give me source on that fact pls.

[image loading]


This is the one with the greatest domination ever and he isnt even at 90%. Iloveoovs domination was far greater than Saviors. Mental strength? I dont think so. The players with mental strength is called Boxer and Nada. Read this FE:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73114
obtw Zoler, the reason why Savior never attained those kind of stats is that iloveoov literally busted out and went on a killing spree (23-0 vs z comes to mind). Whereas Savior was a B-Team practice partner for a lot of 04,05 before busting out and raping left right and center. Iloveoov had considerable mental strength in his prime as well hell the sheer fact that there was an iloveoov curse verifies that claim. Oov created his own persona on the world of starcraft and his mental strength was unparalleled when he was able to create that image and indeed live that image... however things had to change eventually ^.^
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
November 16 2008 05:35 GMT
#76
On November 16 2008 13:34 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 00:26 Zoler wrote:
On November 16 2008 00:19 SilverSkyLark wrote:
On November 16 2008 00:05 Zoler wrote:
On November 15 2008 23:50 simcar wrote:
2 Zoler , in replays he did 3 hatch play,but watch his VODS and u will see that he is talent,and he uses his brain.ROBOTS can not be in FINALS 6 times without break !!! see---> Jaedong,FLash etc...
I think u + Show Spoiler +
noob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STFU PLS


hahahha I see you are a fanboy. fanboys always get angry when you say something bad about their love. and what, he is talent? ]


maybe he meant talented...

and yeah, I agree with your post zoler, he did the same thing every game, but I think that you failed to mention that his game was untouchable thats why he had that 90% win rate and you got flamed by someone with less that 20 posts.

I haven't really been in the sAviOr era, but I think he was one of the great players who were untouchable, won an OSL, then slumped, and is making a come back. This is when the Mind gets in, just look at Boxer, 2 straight OSLs, only getting defeated by the Legend Of Fall (like 4 times). He is a very good example of a player with a good, even exceptional, mental strength. sAviOr stayed in the spotlight with his perfect game sense and his talent, but after winning the OSL, he went into a slump.


I'd love to see him in a comeback. and yeah, he is a fanboy.


That is very true Savior won a lot, but 90%? Give me source on that fact pls.

[image loading]


This is the one with the greatest domination ever and he isnt even at 90%. Iloveoovs domination was far greater than Saviors. Mental strength? I dont think so. The players with mental strength is called Boxer and Nada. Read this FE:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73114
obtw Zoler, the reason why Savior never attained those kind of stats is that iloveoov literally busted out and went on a killing spree (23-0 vs z comes to mind). Whereas Savior was a B-Team practice partner for a lot of 04,05 before busting out and raping left right and center. Iloveoov had considerable mental strength in his prime as well hell the sheer fact that there was an iloveoov curse verifies that claim. Oov created his own persona on the world of starcraft and his mental strength was unparalleled when he was able to create that image and indeed live that image... however things had to change eventually ^.^

Should've just linked to your iloveoov articles instead of typing that out
He really was a beast.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
November 16 2008 10:51 GMT
#77
"Kingdom's apprentice, the expectations were high for him to walk the Royal Road"


wasnt that his second OSL?
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
November 16 2008 11:03 GMT
#78
Hmm.. I'm not sure you've really made the case that (P)Stork is a 'mind' player rather than a 'mechanics' one.

Personally I think a much better argument could be made just by viewing (P)rA and (T)BoxeR and their play for the past 2-3 years. After all, their brilliance was the only reason they weren't terrible players once their mechanics were clearly second-rate to all the newer players.
Oh, my eSports
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
November 16 2008 11:17 GMT
#79
On November 16 2008 19:51 Geo.Rion wrote:
"Kingdom's apprentice, the expectations were high for him to walk the Royal Road"


wasnt that his second OSL?

I think this was meant for the time where he lost to Stork on the Ro8 I think, because of the imbalance that is Fantasy (The map)
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
TYL
Profile Joined February 2008
Philippines116 Posts
November 16 2008 11:41 GMT
#80
great. gj
a girl's smile is her best make up.
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