MA JAE YOON! Watching his old games brings to mind overwhelming how even against the best pros savior could split their attentions and cause them to fall apart. Also i like his name until the other kim's etc i could pick his name out while watching the korean announcers.

imPERSONater

United States1324 Posts

May 25 2011 04:26 GMT

#484

Really good stuff! I learned a lot about SC in general, not just the man the myth and the legend. Improving my play and learning history is always welcome

Letmelose

Korea (South)3227 Posts

May 25 2011 04:28 GMT

#485

On May 25 2011 12:11 Sharkyloft wrote:

I read the whole thread not to repeat anything that was being said b4, the only mention of something similar is a post asking if and if so when will we see this caliber games in SC2.

Im concerned.

I dont know brood war in depth, that is why I would like the opinion of someone who does, but from the things ive seen here on TL and the fact that the BW scene is still "alive and kicking", we could consider these games as equals, (aside from graphics of course).

Is brood war a deeper game where more complex strategies are possible?
Is brood war skill cap higher?
Is WoL a simple and easy game compared to its predecessor?
How was brood war at its beginning?

Im throwing a lot of questions out there. You see, Im concerned. I love Starcraft 2 with all my heart, but when I compare both games and the skill level involved, I cant help but feeling SC2 is a much simpler, pretty and shallow game. I certainly hope im wrong... but... am I?

Some thoughts.

1) Lurkers and tanks are vital units in the game that also happen to be siege units. They need to be immobile to deal damage, and a player that chooses to use these units are trading mobility for army strength. Such heavy dependency on siege units allow many strategic movements in the game that either abuse or maximize the characteristics of those kinds of units. I haven't played or seen much of Starcraft 2, but I get the feeling that since heavy damage dealers such as Collosus are just as mobile as the staple units in the game, the same cannot be said for the sequal.
2) Reinforcements. In Starcraft 2, protoss can just warp in units. What a spastic concept that ruins strategic depth. The intricate balance between army movement and unit production is broken.

The things that made high level Starcraft games an art form no longer exists in its sequal. Then again, it's not the same game. Someone will have to find another way to express their genius with that game.

PBC

167 Posts

May 25 2011 04:29 GMT

#486

i will always remember savior vs FBH on python. even though he lost that one, i remembered how Savior had complete control over all of his units. Truly the "maestro" of zerg

Sayer

United States403 Posts

May 25 2011 04:30 GMT

#487

This was such a sick epic read.

To the Zerg race, Savior was trully a savior. Other Zergs have one titles before him, but he really accopmplished what I think was unthinkable at one point. He became a Bonjwa, using Zerg. He is the one who gave a pride to all the Zerg users.

Mystlord

United States10264 Posts

May 25 2011 04:31 GMT

#488

Absolutely sick write up Ver. Major props! Can't wait for the next installment <3

Though it does make you wonder that if Savior understood the game to such a degree, exactly why did he start slumping?

Legatus Lanius

2135 Posts

May 25 2011 04:39 GMT

#489

excellent write up, i loved it

Syrupjuice

United States173 Posts

May 25 2011 04:47 GMT

#490

Now I was not around for the Starcraft scene for the BroodWar days so I am not as on par as some of the other readers here. But after reading this article I am left nearly dumbfounded at what was presented. Truthfully I had not heard of Savior (probably because of his scandal), but I am finding all of the attributes about his play which are being pointed out in the article to be awesome, and huge ideas which could easily be applied to Starcraft2 (if not already by some gamers).

I was lost on a few of the technical aspects of the article, simply because I did not play BW, but I felt the overall content and ideas presented to be incredible. The graphics which were also included were really great and helpful to understanding the article and its claims.

Great read if you have the time.

Come back in a decade after two expansions, and we'll talk about depth of play and level of skill. Give the game time, guys. As of right now, there's very little doubt that BW is a deeper, more complex, and more developed game than SC2. But none of us know where SC2 will go. It could reach up and become a game in every way as deep and strategic as BW, or it might not.

I agree with that. SC2 is a young game and I look forward to the subtle things that players pick up over time.

loving it

Canada271 Posts

May 25 2011 04:52 GMT

#491

This article, so beautiful. Loooooved it!~

BreatheDeep

United States55 Posts

May 25 2011 04:53 GMT

#492

On May 25 2011 13:03 yayitsjae wrote:
pretty sure most of his games were fixed. you can't trust this guy anymore now that he got caught..

Give the guy credit, he was the bisu of zvt and zvp, guys a legend. the match fixing prolly came afterwards as an easy way to get money, people do it in all sorts of other things too, everyone is human.

jmols

New Zealand41 Posts

May 25 2011 04:54 GMT

#493

Brilliant read, this is must know information for anyone who is at all interested in the history of SC before SC2.
Keep it up

FataLe

New Zealand4499 Posts

May 25 2011 04:56 GMT

#494

Amazing! Wow, coming from someone who came when SC2 was released. This is really, really well written. I'm so envious of those that found SC before me, to see this, experience this time, wow.. So jealous.

integral

United States3156 Posts

May 25 2011 04:58 GMT

#495

Though he will never again play competitively, we recognize that he played at a level that may never be reached again

LOL -- this is pure bullshit. Respect where it's due -- he won a few tournaments in his time, and had a decent win-rate, I guess -- but this article way overhypes him and is so exaggerated it's almost hyperbole. Savior isn't even in the running for "best player ever". He was washed up and slumping for at least two years before he finally "retired". His BEST year is lower than flash's overall winrate for his ENTIRE CAREER.

"He played at a level that may never be reached again" -- god I hope not. Even B-team scrubs are now better than savior ever was.

Letmelose

Korea (South)3227 Posts

May 25 2011 05:04 GMT

#496

It's no secret that Savior's ground army management was a joy to behold, and it is my personal belief that while this was in no small part due to Savior's genius, the play style of the era also plays a huge part.

Savior played in an era when mutalisks were unable to keep their terran opponents at bay to the same degree found today. The difference in army size and how far the zerg teched up as terrans launched their assault was quite obvious. Zergs today don't have to use every trick up their sleave just to survive the bionic army, especially if their mutalisk and defiler usage is up to par.

I remember how July once said in an interview that what Yellow did ten years ago with the zerg race aren't properly mastered by top zerg progamers of today. He said that Jaedong was not able to do the things Yellow was capable of, although Savior came close with his clever lurker usage. Things such as setting up lurker traps to kill retreating terran forces after a back-stab.

How many ZvT games today are decided by how zerg maneuvers his ground army before defilers come out? How about five years ago? How about ten years ago? The game has evolved so much that the focus of the game has shifted again and again. Who would have imagined a couple of years ago that terrans would negate defiler play with mech switch so late into the game?

Savior's genius came out of neccessity, and that is what makes this game so beautiful. All those clutch lurker placements, army maneuvering kept Savior alive against imminent threat, and he was the best in the business at those things. I do wonder if that makes his plays more in depth in terms of strategy compared to other great zergs though. He simply did the things that were pertinent at the time.

Monchew

United States3 Posts

May 25 2011 05:04 GMT

#497

The Tiger Woods of bw

LuckyMacro

United States1482 Posts

May 25 2011 05:04 GMT

#498

On May 25 2011 13:03 yayitsjae wrote:
pretty sure most of his games were fixed. you can't trust this guy anymore now that he got caught..

Lol wait what? Now that's total nonsense.

iamke55

United States2806 Posts

May 25 2011 05:07 GMT

#499

On May 25 2011 13:58 integral wrote:

Show nested quote +

To be fair, this article was actually written at a time when Flash wasn't the undisputed greatest SC player ever. It took a long time for it to be released.